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The Official Xbox One thread... - Page 6

post #151 of 14783
Agreed. Those could be good reasons for having a connect but not good reason for REQUIRING it. They should be optional as should be turning on the Kinect.
post #152 of 14783
I'm mostly just extremely skeptical it'll deliver on its promise. The first kinect definitely didnt. There were so many caveats to using it, a lot of times it just didnt really work well. Now they're claiming it can measure my heartbeat and recognize my face, my fingers....even in the dark. That's a bold claim to say the least.

But this time it'll be different...we swear!

I'm pretty much entirely uninterested in using it to control the interface as they demonstrated, no matter how well it works. But they haven't shown us yet how it'll improve games, or if it'll even be relevant for the games I like to play.

I believe its improved....I just don't know if I believe that its improved *enough*. Either way, the tech will never progress to the point that it finally delivers on its sci-if promises unless we go through the growing pains. But until its truly robust enough to be something almost everyone wants....I'm not sure it should be included in every box, and I'm *especially* unsure that the forcing it to be connected is the right move.
post #153 of 14783
Oh I'm impressed as hell with the tech; the demos that they've displayed show it to be a quantum leap improvement and I'm sure that it can do everything they claimed. I don't necessarily need or want something which can do what it does.
post #154 of 14783
I am not sure any gaming device actually was able to do everything the manufacturer claimed. If the Kinect 2 can. it will be a first!
post #155 of 14783
There was always going to be a significant contingent of people uninterested in anything that the Kinect could do, so why force people to plug it in? "Oh but it's God's gift to gaming! Why wouldn't everyone want an active high definition 3D see-in-the-dark camera and sensitive microphone mounted in their living rooms and bedrooms while playing games and watching TV and movies?" Sheer idiocy.

I'm wondering what the story with PS4 Eye is going to be. There's all kinds of speculation but Sony has given very few details as to its role. No doubt they're paying close attention to the flack that MS is getting about Kinect 2 biggrin.gif.
post #156 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

There was always going to be a significant contingent of people uninterested in anything that the Kinect could do, so why force people to plug it in? Sheer idiocy.

I'm wondering what the story with PS4 Eye is going to be. There's all kinds of speculation but Sony has given very few details as to its role. No doubt they're paying close attention to the flack that MS is getting about Kinect 2 biggrin.gif.

I don't think there will be much to that story - the role it will be expected to play is almost certainly proportional to the attention they gave it. If it was core to the system, they'd have gone into great detail on it during the reveal.

Just like the kinect, it'll be a neat device that probably works half as well as they say it does, some fun stuff will come out of it, maybe you'll even be able to control the UI with voice and gestures....but that's not a big enough deal to most gamers that the PS4 needs to revolve around it. It's an accessory that's rightfully being treated as an accessory.
post #157 of 14783
Without the Kinect being mandatory, you won't see games use it for important stuff, and hence what can be done with it won't be advanced by developers. You cut out part of your potential customer base by using an optional add-on in your product. All XboxOne games will play on all XboxenOnes.
post #158 of 14783
And if having the Kinect irritates you so much maybe you should pass on this console?
post #159 of 14783
I am excited about the ways the new Kinect will be implemented, ways which no-one has even thought of yet. It will only take one game to do something totally awesome, that will change the way we play forever, to get the naysayers on board.

Microsoft are thinking about the future with bundling the Kinect, and the future looks bright.
post #160 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I don't think there will be much to that story - the role it will be expected to play is almost certainly proportional to the attention they gave it. If it was core to the system, they'd have gone into great detail on it during the reveal.

Just like the kinect, it'll be a neat device that probably works half as well as they say it does, some fun stuff will come out of it, maybe you'll even be able to control the UI with voice and gestures....but that's not a big enough deal to most gamers that the PS4 needs to revolve around it. It's an accessory that's rightfully being treated as an accessory.
I hope gaming is not proportional too...
post #161 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flatus View Post

Without the Kinect being mandatory, you won't see games use it for important stuff, and hence what can be done with it won't be advanced by developers. You cut out part of your potential customer base by using an optional add-on in your product. All XboxOne games will play on all XboxenOnes.

And with the Kinect you cut out part of the potential customer base who don't want it but who are now forced to have it and plug it in. Few people had it before, few were particularly impressed with the original and no one was begging for a new version, much less a mandatory one.

By all means, pack it in with the console, but don't force me to plug it in. If there are games which require it, I can decide whether I want to play them enough to use Kinect and plug it in when I'm playing them.

Perhaps I'm getting upset about nothing. Maybe like the current Kinect I can elect to have it not turned on and forego any of its "advantages". I can't wait to hear the details on the 10th.
post #162 of 14783
I don't think 24 million is considered a few.
post #163 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

I don't think 24 million is considered a few.

Okay--I take back the "few people had it" part biggrin.gif. But even a Microsoft exec is saying, "Xbox One will absolutely redeem Kinect in the eyes of core gamers". No one was crying out for an encore, much less one that we're forced to have plugged in and turned on while using the machine.
post #164 of 14783
They sold a lot of Kinects but how many are used regularly? I have one but it only really gets plugged in when kids are around.
post #165 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Okay--I take back the "few people had it" part biggrin.gif. But even a Microsoft exec is saying, "Xbox One will absolutely redeem Kinect in the eyes of core gamers". No one was crying out for an encore, much less one that we're forced to have plugged in and turned on while using the machine.

Who knows. As an avid Kinect user along with my family that uses it we like what we see so far with the changes and gripes we had. My biggest gripes with Kinect is hearing me with any sound that drowns me out and also watching something on tv and Kinect responding as if it got a command. The features so far have already shown to resolve those two biggest gripes I had.

I play Dance Central Kinect Sports all the time because they are having fun while working out. It gets them off the couch. I have had Kinect since beta testing it and haven't disconnected since. It works and this Kinect 2.0 looks to work even better than the first and fix some of the issues a lot of people have including the space requirements the first one needed.
post #166 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

They sold a lot of Kinects but how many are used regularly? I have one but it only really gets plugged in when kids are around.

How many use Move when it sold a lot also? How many use 360s and PS3s regulary? I got a PS3 but use it for the occasional BR and exclusive vs but use 360 and gaming PC daily. vice versa for others. I can only speak for my family and pretty much the people I have on my friends list I play with and see what games they are playing. Everyday members of my family use voice or game. I don't use all the features on my phone on a daily basis but eventually they get used.
post #167 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Okay--I take back the "few people had it" part biggrin.gif. But even a Microsoft exec is saying, "Xbox One will absolutely redeem Kinect in the eyes of core gamers". No one was crying out for an encore, much less one that we're forced to have plugged in and turned on while using the machine.

I think the Kinect had the highest attach rate of any peripheral ever? I don't know, I think I read that somewhere.

Read your statement: "Xbox One will absolutely redeem Kinect in the eyes of core gamers." Core gamers being hard-core gamers, the ones that don't want to dance or work-out. The ones that don't want a kinect so the developers of the hard-core titles can't add Kinect to the mix or else their "core" audience won't buy the game because they don't have Kinect. Every XboxOne will have the improved Kinect2 so that's not an issue for future titles.

But growth for console sales will come from non core gamers, so there's no need to keep complaining about features for the console that aren't in line with exactly what we're currently doing right now to game. If the XboxOne plays games way better than the 360, and it's a pretty safe bet that it will, then anything else added that sells consoles and expands the potential market for developers to create games in is gravy. IMNHSO. smile.gif
post #168 of 14783
This is Sony's head talking about games. We are not hearing this from MS. It seems to me that this generation may see a turning of the tables with MS having a big head and Sony playing to the gamers. So far, the Xbone is shooting straight at the Wii audience. We will see if that audience will spend that kind of money for these features.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/30/sony-ceo-plays-down-media-hub-and-says-playstation-4-is-for-gamers/

“I fundamentally believe that the initial market that we need to make sure we appeal to with any new platform … is really the gaming audience,” Hirai said. “They will be the supporters of your platform and they will help propel the installed base.”

He spoke at the D11 conference hosted by AllThingsD. He was joined by Jed York, the chief executive and owner of the San Francisco 49ers, and they talked about the fan experience Sony is helping to create for the 49ers’ new high-tech stadium in Santa Clara. He made the remarks in response to a question from moderator Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal.

Hirai acknowledged the PS4 will have non-game applications. But Sony will not emphasize those at the outset as it did with the launch of the PlayStation 3 game console in 2006. The PS4 is coming out this fall.

He said Sony would add other entertainment apps, “But that’s after we establish the platform as a video game platform. We want to make sure that we are there for the gamers with our PS4 as well. They will go beyond this, but they’ll definitely start with gamer first.

He concluded, “For us, it’s all about the gamers.”
post #169 of 14783
I absolutely feel that improved voice commands can enhance "hardcore" games. This is part of one of my posts in the Kinect thread...
Quote:
Well, since I have actually used the voice commands in Skyrim, I can tell you that it opens up the game immensely. Have you played Skyrim on your console? Changing dragon shouts is a pain...pause, scroll, button, scroll, scroll, scroll, assign, unpause. Ugh. Or you could just say "Dragonrend" or "Disarm" or "Fire Breath". Like I said, opens up the game to try new tactics and creates more fluid combat. And that doesn't even touch on assigning spells and weapons.
Being able to easily pick from a large pool of spells or weapons on the fly really upped the immersion, IMO. Only thing better would be if it read my mind...then I'd really feel like a wizard. tongue.gif
post #170 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

How many use Move when it sold a lot also? How many use 360s and PS3s regulary? I got a PS3 but use it for the occasional BR and exclusive vs but use 360 and gaming PC daily. vice versa for others. I can only speak for my family and pretty much the people I have on my friends list I play with and see what games they are playing. Everyday members of my family use voice or game. I don't use all the features on my phone on a daily basis but eventually they get used.

I do not think the Move was very successful either. The Wii sold a ton of consoles that mostly just sit around. The only thing I play on my Move is Sports Champions. I wish they had come out with more disc golf courses.
post #171 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flatus View Post

I think the Kinect had the highest attach rate of any peripheral ever? I don't know, I think I read that somewhere.

Read your statement: "Xbox One will absolutely redeem Kinect in the eyes of core gamers." Core gamers being hard-core gamers, the ones that don't want to dance or work-out. The ones that don't want a kinect so the developers of the hard-core titles can't add Kinect to the mix or else their "core" audience won't buy the game because they don't have Kinect. Every XboxOne will have the improved Kinect2 so that's not an issue for future titles.

But growth for console sales will come from non core gamers, so there's no need to keep complaining about features for the console that aren't in line with exactly what we're currently doing right now to game. If the XboxOne plays games way better than the 360, and it's a pretty safe bet that it will, then anything else added that sells consoles and expands the potential market for developers to create games in is gravy. IMNHSO. smile.gif

Will growth really come from non-gamers though? The PS2 was a pure gaming platform, sold more consoles and faster than even the Wii. There are more gamers now than there ever have been....do they even need the casuals, if it dilutes the core product? Casuals are fair weather friends.

If by non gamers you actually mean people literally not interested in gaming at all....those were the people MS seemed to specifically be targeting with their reveal....where's the buzz? Maybe I'm stuck in a gaming bubble, but I still follow non-gaming news....I haven't really seen anyone talking about it. Even within AVS....I can hardly even recall anyone going nuts over how awesome it'll be for TV. Maybe there's a thread in another subforum I don't really go to? And if not here, then where?

I'm not being facetious, genuinely curious.
post #172 of 14783
I've read that 3 gigs of Ram, 2 CPU cores, & 10% of the GPU will be reserved for just the OS(s) and other apps, taking away resources from games. Any truth to that?
post #173 of 14783
I saw this over on IGN. It's a gamer centric website that seems to favor Sony, so I was a little surprised by the numbers favoring the amount of people that want a Xbox One over a PS4 on launch. This just goes to show you that the vocal few on the internet don't speak for everyone and don't have as much pull as they think they do.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/30/xbox-one-playstation-4-and-the-state-of-gaming
post #174 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

I've read that 3 gigs of Ram, 2 CPU cores, & 10% of the GPU will be reserved for just the OS(s) and other apps, taking away resources from games. Any truth to that?

Where'd you read that? Sounds a little high to me. Dunno why the system would need to reserve GPU for anything while a game is in session either.
post #175 of 14783
meh
Quote:
Check out this unscientific but totally fun misleading look at the state of gaming

IE, useless besides getting pageclicks and ad revenue. Mise well put it in a slideshow to boot.
post #176 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Where'd you read that? Sounds a little high to me. Dunno why the system would need to reserve GPU for anything while a game is in session either.

Just a comment on Neogaf, but I couldn't find anything to verify it. If you're doing instant task switching and have apps running, wouldn't some need access to the GPU?
post #177 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I saw this over on IGN. It's a gamer centric website that seems to favor Sony, so I was a little surprised by the numbers favoring the amount of people that want a Xbox One over a PS4 on launch. This just goes to show you that the vocal few on the internet don't speak for everyone and don't have as much pull as they think they do.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/30/xbox-one-playstation-4-and-the-state-of-gaming

That article reads entirely different to my eyes. Dunno why it seems Sony-centric when twice as many of their readers identify the 360 as their dominant platform. IGN has always seemed fairly neutral to me, they cover everything under the sun.

Its the numbers at the end that seem to tell a troubling story for MS. Three things stand out:

44% of surveyed identify with the 360, but only 42% are considering the x1.
23% of surveyed identify with the PS3, but 29% are considering the PS4.
9% of 360 owners are considering the PS4, but only 3% of PS3 owners are considering the x1.

But most importantly, the survey took place between May 7-10, weeks before the x1 was revealed. So Sony's reveal seemed to have eaten away a bit at MS's lead, but people voting in favor of the x1 were voting what they imagined the console would be, not what was actually revealed.

It'd be really interesting if they sent out the same survey again now, and then once again after e3. Nonetheless, Microsoft clearly ended this generation as the champ, in the US at least...it's always been their game to lose.
post #178 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

I do not think the Move was very successful either. The Wii sold a ton of consoles that mostly just sit around. The only thing I play on my Move is Sports Champions. I wish they had come out with more disc golf courses.

Sony seems to think so which is why they demonstrated it again in February and now with a new Eyetoy that looks to imitate Kinect features in combination with the Move and controller.
post #179 of 14783
IGN recently did a poll on youtube for various Xbone vs PS4 features, the results should be out today ( it's 31st May now where I live).
post #180 of 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Just a comment on Neogaf, but I couldn't find anything to verify it. If you're doing instant task switching and have apps running, wouldn't some need access to the GPU?

The way I currently understand it, games take priority over apps - you can run two apps side by side, but you can't run a game and an app side by side. Apps can stay suspended in the background for fast switching and running services on the CPU (like on Win 8/iOS)...but I cant think of any reason they'd need to utilize the GPU in that state. A game probably has exclusive access to the GPU. Hitting the home button to bring up the blades might temporarily require the game to give up some resources, including the GPU, to run the overlay....but once that's closed, it should release it entirely back to the game.

Can't think of any reason they'd need to put aside two whole CPU cores either, and 3GB is quite a bit more than I'd have expected. Its possible though, depending on how quickly they want to enable switching away from games. If they want to do it really, really quickly, they'd need to reserve a good chunk to keep the apps resident in memory. I suspect that like iOS, many apps will stay resident until a game starts demanding some of their memory, in which case they'll start saving their state to disk and releasing the memory to the game, in the order in which they were last used. Every app should still come right back to where you left it, including games, but depending on their current state of suspension, the time it'll take will vary from almost instant to a few seconds.

The way they intend the console to be used, I dont think they'll set any hard limits beyond what the OS itself requires, maybe 1GB or so. If all you do is ever run apps and never games, the remaining 7GB could be used entirely for you to switch between dozens of apps, lightning quick.
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