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The Official Xbox One thread... - Page 105

post #3121 of 14773
Yes but most people who are complaining about it aren't serving in the army. This is a rare and valid point and Ms would be stupid not to give the army free non internet access xbox ones. I think who ever is in charge of pr should be fired. I honestly can't see them sticking with this no internet no access thing but most people complaining aren't serving in the army or ever have.
post #3122 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

Yeah, that's the problem... All you want is better graphics? How has that worked out for us as far as the actual EXPERIENCE of gaming goes? If that's all you want from next-gen, then Sony seems to have a pretty good system for you (and all things considered, PS4 -is- going to be a pretty sweet system). That said, isn't Microsoft giving you that as well ON TOP of all these other things? More memory... 10x the power of the 360... better GPU... and games that thus far look arguably better graphically than anything Sony has shown.

And apparently, not everyone was saying ditch gimmicky motion controls. You know how we know that? From the 24 million Kinect peripherals Microsoft sold, opening up gaming to a broader audience than before. You could say the same for the Wii, which I suppose is equally mocked by "hardcore gamers". Like it or not, those things brought a lot of people into gaming who weren't into it before (in addition to the advent of mobile gaming), creating a broader market. And like it or not, failing to cater to both those new gamers and your previous base will ultimately be a mistake. Hell, I'm not particularly big on coming home from a long day at work and standing around to play a game... but even I find the voice controls in Skyrim and Mass Effect 3 pretty additive to the experience when seated, and it seems like they're trying to do better iterations on that Kinect + controller experience on Xbox One. I've also had a lot of fun playing Kinect Sports at parties with friends (and let me tell ya'... alcohol + Kinect bowling = hilarity ensues).

But again, it's not about what you want now. It's about what you're going to expect years from now, and the way things will have changed.

A new drinking game. Take a shot for each buzzword used in a Jeremy Anderson post.

You may have a point somewhere, but it gets lost in the marketing.
post #3123 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

The same thing is happening here... People are basing their expectations for a new gaming console on the way old gaming consoles work. That's stagnation, not innovation. And while maintaining the status quo might keep people happy in the short term, it impedes progress.

Jeremy - there's three different things happening here....one is the technological innovation of the gaming console itself; another is the innovation of the business model around the gaming industry; and then there is "the voice of the customer" via market feedback. All gamers can enjoy the benefits of technological innovations (better graphics, faster processors, greater interactivity, etc.). But the biggest issue that is causing disputes in this thread is the clash between Microsoft using their market position in an attempt to change the home gaming / entertainment business model which seems to be in direct conflict with what their target audience wants. The business model is focused on extracting maximum value through multiple revenue channels and protecting the interests of corporate partners than on what made the system popular with its target audience in the first place.

All innovation is not necessarily good innovation and business models that "work well" work well for a reason - because their customers are happy and feel there is value in their purchasing decision. Only time will tell if Microsoft backpedals by alienating their core audience that made them successful in the first place.
post #3124 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

.......
Before you try to make the comparison to home video, try looking at the disclaimers that appear on movies that you buy. They've been there since VHS tapes. Same deal.

Are you trying to say it's illegal to resale a DVD or BR? If that's the case, there are a lot of video stores that have been breaking the law with their $5 prewatched bins, and I highly doubt the movie industry would have let that pass if that was their interpretation. And just for reference, you compared the XB1 to DVD and Roku; I was just pointing out why I didn't agree with the comparison.
post #3125 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomNinjaAtk View Post

Found this online, for those still wondering about the game sharing aspect. Typically I'd expect people to physically share the disc with lcoal people only, but it shows the advantages of Xbox One.


what... people don't drive from washington to utah to deliver a game??? that's the draw of the disc!
post #3126 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKillJoy View Post

You are incredibly misinformed. MS makes no money from the charge that third party publishers would charge. I think this might be one of the reasons i will end up getting a xbox one if people like you keeping posting these so called facts which aren't even true. I don't agree with every single thing Ms has done with this console but the Fact is MS make no money and will probably never directly charge the gamer but rather the retailer.

I honestly don't get why people are against developers and publishers getting some money from the used game market instead of game stop who when you take your game to them and its used practically offer you peanuts and charge 70% more to the person that buys your used game.

I can see this being a good thing as they might start charging less for games if everyone is buying the game instead of just buying everyone else.

A system that needs to be set up to keep track of tens of millions of licenses being traded and gifted is going to cost money. Who is going to pay for it directly?

You’ll have a hard time convincing me that either MS, publishers or retailers will be benevolent providers of this costly service and not pass it on to us.

Sure, they’re not charging you a line item fee on a per game basis. They said nothing about the costs to access this walled garden, because for the most part joe gamer won’t have to interact with it directly. Cost will just be passed on as price increases on the consumer end.
post #3127 of 14773
GameStop stores hit Xbox One launch cap; pre-orders ceased
Quote:
GameStop has ceased taking pre-orders for Xbox One. Employees from a number of retail locations around the country tell Polygon that the company reached its launch-day allocation last weekend. The company says it is still taking orders via its online site.

Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/19/4445098/gamestop-hits-xbox-one-launch-cap-ceases-pre-orders

Looks like it will sell out at launch, but it seems there will be more PS4's to be had a launch. One thing to note though is that sony didn't actually announce a release time frame. So Holiday 2013 could mean the every end of December, whereas Xbox One will be out sometime in November.
post #3128 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monger View Post

A new drinking game. Take a shot for each buzzword used in a Jeremy Anderson post.

You may have a point somewhere, but it gets lost in the marketing.
I'll play that game if you'll take a shot for every post from every person here who clearly has already decided to buy a PS4, yet keeps coming here anyway just to let the butthurt flow. wink.gif

But seriously, I'd like to think I'm speaking pretty plainly. If you want me to, I suppose I can start saying things like "synergy" or "I'm efforting that as we speak". (Yes, I hear these things at my job... and I want to smack people for it.) biggrin.gif
post #3129 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

A system that needs to be set up to keep track of tens of millions of licenses being traded and gifted is going to cost money. Who is going to pay for it directly?

You’ll have a hard time convincing me that either MS, publishers or retailers will be benevolent providers of this costly service and not pass it on to us.

Sure, they’re not charging you a line item fee on a per game basis. They said nothing about the costs to access this walled garden, because for the most part joe gamer won’t have to interact with it directly. Cost will just be passed on as price increases on the consumer end.
It's called Azure. It's already there. It's already part of Xbox Live. And video games aren't the only thing subsidizing it.
post #3130 of 14773
There were just to too many good post's by mboojigga to quote them.

If you don't like 360 email/phone Microsoft and vote with your wallets. All this Internet bickering is going to to get you no where.

Last time I checked this a home theater forum. Chances are pretty much everyone here can afford both systems and despite whining will get both.

That time when the Internet goes down and you can't play your games, surely there must be something also you can find time to do?

My only three complaints regarding the Internet are Microsoft shutting down old games (think Halo 2), game lagging or acting funny in "single player" mode due to things being in the cloud and my Internet lagging and finally no more geek camping!

For me multiplayer is about teaming up with friends to complete a story or Halo Ops, you get the idea.
post #3131 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

You’re arguing about sharing functionality that hasn’t only been announced but passingly. No policy is set up and no one really knows the rules yet, which is why the graphic above could be misleading at best or just flat out wrong. We simply don’t know how it will work besides MS having said we can share our games with 10 family members. Quite frankly I’m betting the devil is in the details as it so often is with these things.

What gets me is that Sony actually pioneered this with 5 “family members”, and it was shut down within 6-12 months from publishers. If publishers are now allowing it, there’s no reason Sony won’t bring it back for their digital content. There’s really no technological reason it can’t be implemented for their physical content either, allowing digital copies to be downloaded and the physical disc pinged every so often. "But wait, thats the same as MS's DRM check" some will say. No, it's not because it be opt-in and only for using the share feature itself; which is a nice compromise and choice.

But, in the end, my guess is people are going to be disappointed pretty quickly with how family sharing ends up in reality, that is if the program doesn’t get shut down totally.

Kinda like how all you PS4 worshippers know with 100% certainty that prices with XB1 DD will always be $60 or more?!?!?!

See, I can play this game as well.
post #3132 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

I think this is more like Toyota telling their customers to buy an eight year old Camry if they don't want to buy a new Prius. "We've stopped making conventional cars, but if you don't have electricity, we have a product for you. It's a 2005 Camry." I've still got electricity, but I don't think my car needs to run off it until they can prove to me it will do everything I want it to. So far, MS hasn't done that.

But you already have your answer. It has to be online. You have stated you don't want that. For some reasons others have just now figured out that you never owned the game only the license to play the game and the license to play the console. You can still trade games in and borrow digital content but I can't with digital content today on Steam. I am limited to one other person on my 360 but have more options coming to the One. T

he Prius requires electricity. I have options within Toyotas stock or outside of it. I choose a 5.0 and a Hemi over the electric and all the cost of gas and the beneifts of horsepower that I like to push on the freeway. They have an electric car that is just as fast as my Mustang and 300C with a 12in monitor and over a 100 grand. I am not limited to the One. I have the choice of PC, PS3 ,PS4 and 360. Why is choice an issue?
post #3133 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Are you trying to say it's illegal to resale a DVD or BR? If that's the case, there are a lot of video stores that have been breaking the law with their $5 prewatched bins, and I highly doubt the movie industry would have let that pass if that was their interpretation. And just for reference, you compared the XB1 to DVD and Roku; I was just pointing out why I didn't agree with the comparison.
I'm trying to say that the media it comes on doesn't equal the product itself. Paying for that media doesn't give you an unfettered license to do what you want with it. People have accepted resales as a necessity of providing that content via physical media, and the movie industry had no choice but to follow suit. However, they also put in place legal limitations to prevent people from doing things like mass redistribution, modification of the content, or public display, and that's something you agree to just by buying the product. Video games have always come with similar limitations, however, GameStop pushed the loophole of them being on physical media to build their empire. Gradually, they've lost segments of that... such as PC game resales, which began to be negated by internet connectivity on most PCs or linking of physical copies to services like Steam. That's why you don't see GameStop reselling most PC games... because that loophole has been closed.
post #3134 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKillJoy View Post

I'll tell you one thing that annoys me about the whole non internet argument is the people who are so against it seem to be people blogging on the internet about it. Who buys a game just for single player now of days anyway?? I am baffled by how many bloggers are outraged. I think they should have done it on a weekly bias though but still I can't complain because my internet never been that bad that Ive had it off full 24 hours unless there is a power cut in which case I couldn't play anyway.

Why the outcry from the internet. I don't get it.

Maybe thats because it's not the argument 99% are making? SP/MP/Online isn't the problem. MS forcing you to ping their servers every 24hr/1hr or losing all ability to play your games is. The SP argument is just an example of how stupid that system is that you could lose access to all your SP, internet not needed games because of any litany of online issues.

"Always online" is kind of misleading, but what they mean is "lose the ability to connect, lose the license". They're mad that games are basically becoming a $60 per pop limited service vs being bale to buy a product and use it at will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

And people wonder why Microsoft referred to PS4 as Xbox 360 v.2.

Well, when you can't get through one flipping presser without giving people one more reason not to buy your own box....

smile.gif
post #3135 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I'm with you on that. It's so odd to me that people say, "We want something new and innovative!" Then when someone tries to give it to them, they say, "But... but... it doesn't work the way the old one did!" Make up your mind! It's such a strange sense of entitlement for the status quo, as if just because it's a game console, it has to do everything exactly the same way previous game consoles did. The worst is the people who throw out the theoretical situations. "But what if my internet goes down? Or 20 years from now, they shut down the servers?" Okay, so you're going to avoid (and possibly impede) the march of progress because of things that you have no reason to believe will happen... but because they MIGHT. One day. In the distant future, if at all. Those people should be asking themselves, "But what if one day, aliens come to the planet and disable all of our communications? How am I supposed to play video games during an alien invasion? WHY U NO PLAN 4 ALIENS, MICRO$UCK?"

Microsoft has a history of giving console gamers things they don't think they need at the time, then eventually come to expect as the standard. Ethernet on a console... putting a hard drive in a console... cross-game party chat... a matchmaking service with feedback/reporting... digital downloads... streaming services like Netflix... full-body tracking for motion controls. Every time, they're gambling on the trends they see in the industry, and now it's all stuff we just take for granted. Years from now, I think the things they're trying to do now that seem to have people so butthurt will be the new expectation. I think once people see how all of this comes together and just WORKS, they'll let go of their preconceived notions that they're basing on the status quo. And while Sony will do what they did with PS3 and adapt after the fact, Microsoft will have the better implementation, because they chose to push forward. Innovation vs. stagnation. I'll take innovation every time, even if it's unpopular.

You can complain all day long and they aren't going to change the fundamental thing they are trying to accomplish with this new system, nor should they based on your ridiculous sense of entitlement as far as how things SHOULD work, especially when they're the ones who have done a lot to define what those current expectations are. And those of us who see the path they're trying to lead us down and see that as a good thing are excited for it. This is no different to me than someone faced with a DVD player on one side and a Roku box on the other... one plays discs, the other needs the internet. Both things are designed to play movies. Don't have internet? Don't buy the Roku box. But what you don't do is keep whining that the Roku box needs internet to work and that they should have made it more like a DVD player, with the expectation that if you complain enough, Roku will fundamentally change the entire thing they're trying to accomplish with their product. That's just ridiculous, especially with the advantages the Roku box brings to the table over a DVD player as far as instant access.

The bottom line is... This is something new. This is what it does. This is why it does it. If you're not cool with that, don't buy it. It's really that simple.

+1,000,000

We've literally been doing this same song and dance with a group of 3-4 guys that complain about the same garbage every single page.
Edited by vedderpj13 - 6/20/13 at 12:46pm
post #3136 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

who said they wanted something new and innovative? in fact, everyone was saying the opposite.. everyone was saying get back to core gaming and ditch gimmicky motion controls. People were saying, just give me a basic console for a good price with better graphics. People weren't screaming for some new innovation, people just wanted a 360 with better graphics and more memory.

it's not like people looked at the 360 and said, "man if it was only more innovative like the wii is". People loved the 360 because it had core gaming..

Easy solution. Buy the PS4, or stay with your 360.
post #3137 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripeer View Post

There were just to too many good post's by mboojigga to quote them.

If you don't like 360 email/phone Microsoft and vote with your wallets. All this Internet bickering is going to to get you no where.

Last time I checked this a home theater forum. Chances are pretty much everyone here can afford both systems and despite whining will get both.

That time when the Internet goes down and you can't play your games, surely there must be something also you can find time to do?

My only three complaints regarding the Internet are Microsoft shutting down old games (think Halo 2), game lagging or acting funny in "single player" mode due to things being in the cloud and my Internet lagging and finally no more geek camping!

For me multiplayer is about teaming up with friends to complete a story or Halo Ops, you get the idea.

I don't think it is safe to assume just because a person participates in this forum they can go out and spend a grand come November and buy two consoles. I can't afford to do that. It was a bit easier to buy a 360 then wait a year to buy a PS3, simply because they came out in that order.

I don't think MS is in their own bubble. If the masses choose alternative products due to their far more user friendly policies in regards to used games, rentals, always online, etc MS might not have a choice but to change their game plan.
post #3138 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by vedderpj13 View Post

+1,000,000

We've literally been doing this same song and dance with a group of 3-4 guys that complain about the same garbage every single page. I'm trying my best to get them removed from this thread, as they literally bring nothing to it.

You know you can ignore posts you don't want to read instead of trying to silence opinions you don't agree with (ones that aren't 100% pro MS regardless of MS's actions). It isn't a requirement to post on here only if you blindly support everything MS does.
post #3139 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Jeremy - there's three different things happening here....one is the technological innovation of the gaming console itself; another is the innovation of the business model around the gaming industry; and then there is "the voice of the customer" via market feedback. All gamers can enjoy the benefits of technological innovations (better graphics, faster processors, greater interactivity, etc.). But the biggest issue that is causing disputes in this thread is the clash between Microsoft using their market position in an attempt to change the home gaming / entertainment business model which seems to be in direct conflict with what their target audience wants. The business model is focused on extracting maximum value through multiple revenue channels and protecting the interests of corporate partners than on what made the system popular with its target audience in the first place.

All innovation is not necessarily good innovation and business models that "work well" work well for a reason - because their customers are happy and feel there is value in their purchasing decision. Only time will tell if Microsoft backpedals by alienating their core audience that made them successful in the first place.
I understand what you're saying, and I do understand the backlash. However, the issue is really what their "target audience" is now. If it remains just hardcore gamers, they fail... because casual gamers are now such a large and important segment of the market. And while the hardcore audience may put them off for the first few years, they're now the vocal minority. That's not to say that Microsoft won't still be putting out games for that segment of the audience... They're just not limiting the scope of things to that, because the current data shows that the market is now much broader than just hardcore gamers.

As to the change in business model, a quick look at the NPD numbers for the last few years shows us that 1) console gaming is in a decline, and 2) digital sales are reaching majority status over physical media sooner than anyone expected. That transition is already taking place before either of these systems is even out. And while it will hurt Microsoft in the short term because of the PR nightmare (and I think we all agree that they've mishandled the messaging on all of this in every way possible), they're banking on the digital trend continuing and pushing to get console gamers to that place faster than it took Steam to get PC gamers to their current place, where the market has been greatly invigorated by publishers having direct access to pricing changes based on market performance.
post #3140 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

It's called Azure. It's already there. It's already part of Xbox Live. And video games aren't the only thing subsidizing it.

So MS is going to take another hit on a business line (gaming) that already is dead last in revenue generation for the company?

Have you seen the rates for Azure services? Are you crazy?

I know they like to moneyhat everything, but at some point prices are going to hit gamers, or shareholders are going to shut it down. Lets hope that’s not mid-generation after you’ve bought all those digital DRM’d titles!
post #3141 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Jeremy - there's three different things happening here....one is the technological innovation of the gaming console itself; another is the innovation of the business model around the gaming industry; and then there is "the voice of the customer" via market feedback. All gamers can enjoy the benefits of technological innovations (better graphics, faster processors, greater interactivity, etc.). But the biggest issue that is causing disputes in this thread is the clash between Microsoft using their market position in an attempt to change the home gaming / entertainment business model which seems to be in direct conflict with what their target audience wants. The business model is focused on extracting maximum value through multiple revenue channels and protecting the interests of corporate partners than on what made the system popular with its target audience in the first place.

All innovation is not necessarily good innovation and business models that "work well" work well for a reason - because their customers are happy and feel there is value in their purchasing decision. Only time will tell if Microsoft backpedals by alienating their core audience that made them successful in the first place.

Well said. The direction of innovation and progress is not preordained, and ultimately relies on market acceptance. Regardless of the value of their vision, their unwavering approach might not be the best policy. Perhaps they should have gone with a little more "Oregon Trail", a little less "Trail of Tears."
Edited by bd2003 - 6/19/13 at 10:01am
post #3142 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

I don't think it is safe to assume just because a person participates in this forum they can go out and spend a grand come November and buy two consoles. I can't afford to do that. It was a bit easier to buy a 360 then wait a year to buy a PS3, simply because they came out in that order.

I don't think MS is in their own bubble. If the masses choose alternative products due to their far more user friendly policies in regards to used games, rentals, always online, etc MS might not have a choice but to change their game plan.

Sorry I wasn't trying to be arrogant. I just assumed (yes I know ass and me) most people on here will likely end up buying both.
Personally I'm starting with a PS4, but I'm still posting on here as a big xbox 360 fanboy and the fact I will very likely pick up an xbox one once the dust settles.

Quick question, anyone else here geek camp?

Throw a tent, a generator an the rest of it in the back of a truck and drive out somewhere and camp and play games?
post #3143 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by vedderpj13 View Post

+1,000,000

We've literally been doing this same song and dance with a group of 3-4 guys that complain about the same garbage every single page. I'm trying my best to get them removed from this thread, as they literally bring nothing to it.

Well, if people would stop trying to explain how obviously negative things are really good for all of us, we wouldn’t need to go back and forth. But any acknowledgment of any perceived negative thing is wrong. It can’t be. MS is progressive, and benevolent, and is ushering in a new era.

We’ve all pretty much agreed on the benefits, how the system would work best, and none of us are against DD in total. But anytime someone points out the flip side of the issues MS brings along with their policy, they get shot down as overreacting and it’s back to unicorns and rainbows on how the policy isn’t wrong.

Why defend it? You don’t see me arguing that DD won’t take over, or that it has no benefits, or that discs are the way of the future. Echochambers are bad, m'kay?

(also yes, use the ignore button if you need your echochamber extra bubbly)
post #3144 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I'm trying to say that the media it comes on doesn't equal the product itself. Paying for that media doesn't give you an unfettered license to do what you want with it. People have accepted resales as a necessity of providing that content via physical media, and the movie industry had no choice but to follow suit. However, they also put in place legal limitations to prevent people from doing things like mass redistribution, modification of the content, or public display, and that's something you agree to just by buying the product. Video games have always come with similar limitations, however, GameStop pushed the loophole of them being on physical media to build their empire. Gradually, they've lost segments of that... such as PC game resales, which began to be negated by internet connectivity on most PCs or linking of physical copies to services like Steam. That's why you don't see GameStop reselling most PC games... because that loophole has been closed.

Exactly.

Its amazing to me that smart people out there do not realize that when it comes to entertainment property we have always been leasing the right to view/listen/play it. Its only because of the limitations of technology and in the case of video games -vs- say music/media the limitation of pure size that we have been able to sidestep those agreements we agreed to when we skip over all those screens. People being able to rip their BR or DVD or CD to hard drive then take it to a local shop and sell/trade is another example of taking advantage of loopholes that the publishers have not found a way to curtail. I am sure they would love to be able too thou.

There is a huge difference between owning a piece of physical property (say a car, table, chair) -vs- a intellectual property. A game disc is nothing more than another method to distribute. We are approaching a time when those differences will be more clear than ever and hopefully some of these loopholes will be closed.
post #3145 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

You know you can ignore posts you don't want to read instead of trying to silence opinions you don't agree with (ones that aren't 100% pro MS regardless of MS's actions). It isn't a requirement to post on here only if you blindly support everything MS does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

I'm all for new and innovative. Thats a good thing. The Kinect 2 is awesome engineering and something I want. But I can't get past giving up ownership of my games . You are basically leasing the opportunity to play a game for as long as it is convenient for them to allow you. Microsoft has become the landlord and one day will just kick you out .

Innovation has nothing to do with this. This is revenue generation .

You do realize 5 years from now this will be an afterthought right?

There's literally no chance physical discs will be used with consoles..

Have you read all 105 pages? Because I have. Like Jeremy just stated, I've got no problem with people coming and posting new info and or links for the XB1, and pointing out issues with it. But when the same 4-5 people keep popping up every single page rehashing the same BS as to WHY NOT to buy the XB1, or just try and smear it over and over and over again. That is where I draw the line.
post #3146 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripeer View Post

Sorry I wasn't trying to be arrogant. I just assumed (yes I know ass and me) most people on here will likely end up buying both.
Personally I'm starting with a PS4, but I'm still posting on here as a big xbox 360 fanboy and the fact I will very likely pick up an xbox one once the dust settles.

Quick question, anyone else here geek camp?

Throw a tent, a generator an the rest of it in the back of a truck and drive out somewhere and camp and play games?

No worries, I'd love to have more disposable income (Damn kids! haha). I'd love to have all three consoles, maybe I will one day. I bought 360 and PS3 both at their launch, Wii a little later. I have much less time to game these days so one console nowadays is impossible to keep up with all I want anyways. Of course with new systems it will be the opposite, having to be patient to find enough games I want, but the generations overlap and I'll still be playing current gen gaming as well.

I've taken consoles to a cabin in Tahoe (no internet there) does that count biggrin.gif
post #3147 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

A system that needs to be set up to keep track of tens of millions of licenses being traded and gifted is going to cost money. Who is going to pay for it directly?

You’ll have a hard time convincing me that either MS, publishers or retailers will be benevolent providers of this costly service and not pass it on to us.

Sure, they’re not charging you a line item fee on a per game basis. They said nothing about the costs to access this walled garden, because for the most part joe gamer won’t have to interact with it directly. Cost will just be passed on as price increases on the consumer end.
I think you missed my point completely. MS have said they don't make any money from this

Your problem isn't with MS it's with gamestop because ms make no money from this. They make all their money from gold and that's what they'll do to run their servers and check ins. It'll be a computer that does all this and not a person so I really don't get your argument on how that will cost more money for MS to run. It won't. Your point is mute and unproven as are many of your so called facts. If you want to buy a ps4 go ahead and boycott MS including the 360 you may or may not own but I for one honestly don't see how this will cost MS money to run. Ms already know when youre logged in already otherwise how could they update your games.

Again MS make no profit from this.
post #3148 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by vedderpj13 View Post


You do realize 5 years from now this will be an afterthought right?

.

Hehe given the internet's extreme case of A-D-D i think it will be much less than 5 years smile.gif
post #3149 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

Exactly.

Its amazing to me that smart people out there do not realize that when it comes to entertainment property we have always been leasing the right to view/listen/play it. Its only because of the limitations of technology and in the case of video games -vs- say music/media the limitation of pure size that we have been able to sidestep those agreements we agreed to when we skip over all those screens. People being able to rip their BR or DVD or CD to hard drive then take it to a local shop and sell/trade is another example of taking advantage of loopholes that the publishers have not found a way to curtail. I am sure they would love to be able too thou.

There is a huge difference between owning a piece of physical property (say a car, table, chair) -vs- a intellectual property. A game disc is nothing more than another method to distribute. We are approaching a time when those differences will be more clear than ever and hopefully some of these loopholes will be closed.

That people think this, and actually defend it, is part of the problem.

First Sale Doctrine, people. Copyright and IP was set up to give a reasonable return on investment in patents, IP, and ideas. It was not set up to create monopolies and ironclad control over IP.

That might be the America we now live in because of corporate regulatory capture, but it sure wasn’t the intention of these systems when they were created. That people are happy to shill for these corporations that they have no real connection or investment with, I’ll never get.

You’re either the customer or the product. Don’t ever think they’re your friend or family.
post #3150 of 14773
http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/xbox-one-vs.-indies-microsoft-bullies-developers-into-signing-with-publishe

Another fine example of Microsoft protecting the interests of large corporations over the desires of gamers and developers.
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