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The Official Xbox One thread... - Page 147

post #4381 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Sure it does.

Either way I really want to know the specs now.

750 (freq) * 128 (bits) = 96 GB/s
96 GB/s * 2 (simultaneous read/write) = 192 GB/s

And thats only during certain situations. In the feel good PR release, they might have inadvertently tipped the hat to a 50mhz downclock, which while isn't the end of the world, is going to be somewhat of a big deal with the already rumored stats.
That wasn't a PR release... It was something Richard heard from devs, not Microsoft. As to your downclock theory, DF posted on Twitter:
Quote:
Xbox One ESRAM peak bandwidth is still 102.4GB/s on pure reads or writes, so I assume 128 byte x 800MHz calculation still holds true.
Quote:
No, people are suggesting that GPU has been downclocked to 750MHz, but it hasn't. 88% more is combining read/write at same time
And then when asked what this all means:
Quote:
We won't know for a long time yet, the games will speak for themselves
biggrin.gif
post #4382 of 14800
The number don't seem to add up then, and he hasn't really explained why. DF is usually better than that, especially with their "rumors".

Either way, it's trivial. This would be the exception, not the rule.

One thing to remember that consistently over time that the console with the more exotic hardware and workaround, is the one most likely to get the ports. N64, XBox, PS3, and now probably XBOne.

Also:


So who's the source?...
Edited by TyrantII - 6/30/13 at 7:27am
post #4383 of 14800
it's funny how people hinge on the word of Richard Leadbetter. he's just a journalist. he's not an engineer. he's not a programmer. he has no technical background (seriously, are we going to consider video editing a technical background?). he does work very hard and you do find him lurking at forums like Beyond3D, asking questions on what this technical spec means and what that technical spec means. no doubt he knows more than the average joe, but at the end the day, he's just looking for the next scoop and asking questions like the rest of us.

I'd equate him to like a Paul Thurrott or Walt Mossberg or David Pogue. People hinge on the word of Mossberg as well. Mossberg also has no technical background as well. But the reason Thurrott, Mossberg, and Pogue are successful is because they were enthusiasts at the user level, they wanted to learn, and they were very good communicators.
post #4384 of 14800
post #4385 of 14800
post #4386 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Yeah, I suppose it's still open to interpretation, but there's no mention of 96/24 anywhere.

It certainly sounds like SHAPE is very good at what it does, it's just that what it does isn't particularly impressive from a quality standpoint.
They do make that kind of box, they're called receivers. tongue.gif

Touche! But I mean, like a LITTLE box. biggrin.gif
post #4387 of 14800
Zynga's future is dimmer than Blackberry. Why would he leave the Xbox to go them?

Something definitely sounds fishy. Wouldnt be the first time Microsoft chopped some heads. Remember this guy & Windows 8?

http://gizmodo.com/5961858/report-steve-ballmer-fired-steven-sinofsky
post #4388 of 14800
Good. He's personally flubbed their message with the One so much he needed to go. Maybe Balmer has a backbone after all.
post #4389 of 14800
If he green-lit all the anti-gamer anti-consumer policies then this is great news for the future of the Xbone brand. He was clearly way out of touch with gamers.

Still time to bring in somebody to can the mandatory Kinect. $350-400 without Kinect would go long ways.
post #4390 of 14800
Its a good start. Microsoft is in serious need of some housecleaning.
post #4391 of 14800
Lol.

Fortunately, we have a product for people who aren’t able to get some form of connectivity: It’s called Xbox 360 Zynga. No wait, that's not right either biggrin.gif

I wonder if Mattrick is the one that fired Adam Orth. That would be seriously ironic!
post #4392 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

If he green-lit all the anti-gamer anti-consumer policies then this is great news for the future of the Xbone brand. He was clearly way out of touch with gamers.

Still time to bring in somebody to can the mandatory Kinect. $350-400 without Kinect would go long ways.

I'd say them dumping Kinect won't happen so a compromise would maybe be included Kinect, at $399, but no requirement that it be connected for the One to work unless it's a game that requires it or you want to take advantage of the voice commands, etc.. That to me seems to make the most sense as it gets Kinect in every house and alleviates some privacy/connectivity concerns people have. Lowering the price would make the system a more attractive buy and hey if they're gonna take a loss on each unit oh well, not my problem. Make it up in services offered and ramp up manufacturing to cut bog down to a profitable level (without introducing RRoD all over again). It can happen I know it can, just depends on how bad MS wants it to happen. Maybe Sony drubbing them in sales will force their hand or maybe the new corporate structure Balmer seems to have in mind will see the light. I mean I'm buying the system regardless but for those out there where these are legit concerns it would go a loooooong way towards making the One a first choice.
post #4393 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctiq21 View Post

Don Mattrick leaving Xbox, WOW. eek.gif

Ballmer was thinking this reorganization for awhile now because Microsoft has so many redundant executives. Here's a look at the execs most in danger:

http://allthingsd.com/20130701/exclusive-microsofts-entertainment-head-don-mattrick-leaving-to-take-top-role-possibly-ceo-at-zynga/?mod=tweet

According to sources close to the situation, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer is likely to unveil his plans to restructure the tech giant to a larger group of senior execs around the beginning of July.

That prospect has many top managers at the company worried, since Ballmer has been making these significant plans with limited consultation with the wider leadership group at the software giant. Instead, he has been working with only a small group of his direct reports and also some Microsoft board members, numerous sources said.

That has meant that most senior execs have largely been left out of the decision-making process related to Ballmer’s goal of solidifying Microsoft into the “devices and services company,” that he wrote about in his annual shareholder letter last October.

The impending changes — and the lack of information about them — has made for some level of discomfort inside Microsoft, where many high-ranking managers have been at the company for a very long time.

“It feels like it is going to be titanic — that Steve is doing this change for his legacy,” said one person close to the situation. “And it’s the first time in a long time that it feels like that there will be some major shifts, including some departures.”

That’s why another source said that the level of worry has grown, since there have been rampant internal rumors about what will happen, but no real change as yet. “It would be funny if Ballmer did nothing in the end,” said the source. “But no one thinks that’s possible now.”

Focus internally is especially strong on Satya Nadella, president of Microsoft’s Servers and Tools division; Tony Bates, president of its Skype communications unit; and Don Mattrick, president of its Interactive Entertainment division. In addition, many are wondering how the job of Qi Lu, president of Microsoft’s Online Services unit, will shift, as well as that of Terry Myerson, who runs the company’s Windows Phone division.

One thing seems certain — a simplification of the structure to clarify its current and decidedly more convoluted set-up. And how Microsoft’s flagship software product, Windows, fits into the new org, will be the most interesting part of the puzzle.
post #4394 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

I'd say them dumping Kinect won't happen so a compromise would maybe be included Kinect, at $399, but no requirement that it be connected for the One to work unless it's a game that requires it or you want to take advantage of the voice commands, etc.. That to me seems to make the most sense as it gets Kinect in every house and alleviates some privacy/connectivity concerns people have. Lowering the price would make the system a more attractive buy and hey if they're gonna take a loss on each unit oh well, not my problem. Make it up in services offered and ramp up manufacturing to cut bog down to a profitable level (without introducing RRoD all over again). It can happen I know it can, just depends on how bad MS wants it to happen. Maybe Sony drubbing them in sales will force their hand or maybe the new corporate structure Balmer seems to have in mind will see the light. I mean I'm buying the system regardless but for those out there where these are legit concerns it would go a loooooong way towards making the One a first choice.
I really hope they do something like that. The price point doesn't bother me as much as the Kinect being mandatory for the Xbox to function.
post #4395 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

Its a good start. Microsoft is in serious need of some housecleaning.

Agreed.

The way they handled the whole reveal and everything since E3 (PR, etc) related to the XBOX One has been nothing short of a giant cluster-f. I am sure there is more than one head over there that needs to roll hard. The sooner the better if they want to have a successful launch IMO. I really think the XBOX One tech-wise and game-wise could be a winner but not the way the suits at MS have been handling things thus far.
Edited by RafaelSmith - 7/1/13 at 10:51am
post #4396 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

If he green-lit all the anti-gamer anti-consumer policies then this is great news for the future of the Xbone brand. He was clearly way out of touch with gamers.

Still time to bring in somebody to can the mandatory Kinect. $350-400 without Kinect would go long ways.

If they do that then instead of getting a launch XBOne, I will be getting a launch PS4 and getting the XBOne later.
post #4397 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

If they do that then instead of getting a launch XBOne, I will be getting a launch PS4 and getting the XBOne later.

Even if you can buy a Kinect separately, coming out to a total of $499? Personally I think it is great to have as an option for those that want it and not have it mandatory for those that don't, just like this generation.
post #4398 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Even if you can buy a Kinect separately, coming out to a total of $499? Personally I think it is great to have as an option for those that want it and not have it mandatory for those that don't, just like this generation.

Yes, that is how much it would piss me off. As an option that means there won't be as much support for Kinect 2.0 since there is no guarantee the user will have one.

they've already backtracked alot with the XBOne which will make things more expensive for me since I will need to get digital downlads now instead of discs (which have a pre-order discount or extras). Another major backtack and it will push me to not get a launch XBOne.
post #4399 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Yes, that is how much it would piss me off. As an option that means there won't be as much support for Kinect 2.0 since there is no guarantee the user will have one.

they've already backtracked alot with the XBOne which will make things more expensive for me since I will need to get digital downlads now instead of discs (which have a pre-order discount or extras). Another major backtack and it will push me to not get a launch XBOne.

Glad I am not the only one that is really upset about how the MS back peddle screwed the prospect of being able to treat Disc and DD exactly the same and what a really nice feature that would have provided.

I have never used the Kinect on my 360.....honestly still think its a fad but I can definitely see how designers knowing that every XBOX 1 they sell too is required to have one could allow them do some cool things with it. If it is made to be optional then it remains a fad IMO.
post #4400 of 14800
Got it, I can understand that view point. I'm just not in the same boat. I feel the same about PS's move as well which I bought (when it was on a big sale) but rarely used.
post #4401 of 14800
they won't sell Kinect 2.0 separately. it would destroy a lot of functionality and would require a redesign of a lot of things. even something as "trivial" as assigning controllers would require redesigning the Xbox One controllers. remember, the Xbox One controllers don't even have a 1, 2, 3, 4 light because it's unnecessary with Kinect.


on another note, looks like DirectX 11.2 is confirmed as Windows 8.1 and Xbox One exclusives. this will fit in with the new hardware feature and implementation for tiled resources and partially resident textures. Remember the incredibly detailed megatextures in Rage? Well, now it's done in hardware with full API support:

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2013/06/28/directx-11-2/

Microsoft has confirmed that DirectX 11.2, the next-generation version of its application programming interface (API) and hardware abstraction layer (HAL) for multimedia devices will be exclusive to Windows 8.1 and its Xbox One console.

At the BUILD conference running this week, Microsoft has confirmed that it is continuing to work on DirectX with plans to launch DirectX 11.2 in the near future - and promises of new technology to boot. During a keynote session at the conference, Microsoft's Antoine Leblond showed off a new feature to attendees that promises to increase the amount of detail that can be shown on-screen: tiled resources.

Designed to allow a game to use both system RAM and graphics RAM to store textures, Leblond claimed that tiled resources will enable DirectX 11.2 games to vastly improve the resolution of textures displayed in-game. By way of proof, Leblond showed off a demonstration that used a claimed 9GB of texture data - the majority of which was held in system RAM, rather than graphics RAM.

It's a clever trick, and one that could help boost the quality of future PC games - but it's one that will require those who have yet to take the plunge to upgrade their operating systems. Leblond confirmed that Direct3D 11.2 will be the first version of the API to support tiled resources, and that it will be exclusive to Windows 8.1 on the PC as well as featuring in Microsoft's next-generation Xbox One console.

That Microsoft is using an updated version of DirectX as a carrot to encourage those still on Windows 7 or earlier to upgrade should come as no surprise: its predecessor, DirectX 11.1, is a Windows 8 exclusive. The only real surprise is that DirectX 11.2 won't be coming to Windows 8, either, with Microsoft reserving the update for its bleeding-edge Windows 8.1 release due in the autumn.


http://vr-zone.com/articles/directx-11-2-to-bring-tiled-resources-to-windows-8-1-and-the-xbox-one/41876.html

DirectX 11.2 is the next major update to DirectX, bumping the AI version up by 0.1 (currently is at DX11.1). But relax, it does more than just bump up a number. DX11.2 brings a major new feature titled ‘Tiled Resources’, that allows developers to be able to dynamically place high-resolution textures in a scene, all without placing much extra load on the GPU. The new technology works to make sure that the textures don’t appear blurry when seen at close up.
post #4402 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

they won't sell Kinect 2.0 separately. it would destroy a lot of functionality and would require a redesign of a lot of things. even something as "trivial" as assigning controllers would require redesigning the Xbox One controllers. remember, the Xbox One controllers don't even have a 1, 2, 3, 4 light because it's unnecessary with Kinect.

That absence of the "ring of light" has nothing to do with Kinect. It was never anything more than an indicator for the user. There will still have to be an identity to the controller that they can't possibly be tying to recognizing the image of the person using it, since that would negate their stated ability to use the box with Kinect turned off in games which don't require Kinect which would probably never be more than a minor percentage. If all games which use a pad require Kinect for it that promise goes up in smoke.

Once they figure out how many millions of units they won't sell to people who would have stuck with Xbox but decide to go with a PS4 because they don't want to have to deal with Kinect or have one in their house I think that they re-think that just like they rethought the DRM stuff.
post #4403 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

If he green-lit all the anti-gamer anti-consumer policies then this is great news for the future of the Xbone brand. He was clearly way out of touch with gamers.

Still time to bring in somebody to can the mandatory Kinect. $350-400 without Kinect would go long ways.
A long ways toward killing anything that makes these consoles "next-gen" over the last ones, maybe. KINECT 2 MUST STAY UBIQUITOUS! smile.gif
post #4404 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post


Once they figure out how many millions of units they won't sell to people who would have stuck with Xbox but decide to go with a PS4 because they don't want to have to deal with Kinect or have one in their house I think that they re-think that just like they rethought the DRM stuff.

At this point who knows anymore what MS will do. I was one that hoped they would stick to their guns with the DRM thing but alas they caved.

I just think for MS the new Kinect is much more than a motion control for games........its integral to alot of the features the XBOX One is promising. While they could redesign their hardware, OS(s) to make it optional I think would be a much bigger deal than turning off DRM. I have done some research on the capabilities of the new Kinect and really look forward to see what designers can do with it. If having it be part of every XBOX sold makes that easier for them so be it. Its just another gadget to have in my entertainment center full of gadget. No big deal. While I disagreed....I could see peoples hangup with the DRM........I honestly do not get the hangup with Kinect being hooked up. To me its like getting upset that a console has to have a controller or power or to be able to use all the features of a AVR you have use the remote.
post #4405 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

A long ways toward killing anything that makes these consoles "next-gen" over the last ones, maybe. KINECT 2 MUST STAY UBIQUITOUS! smile.gif

The thing is though....kinect won't be ubiquitous, even if it's in the box. Other platforms don't support it, so the only games that are going to really utilize it are the first party titles. Which is what, 10% of the games maybe? And not even all of them....I don't recall seeing much if any kinect functionality in any of the first party games like ryse or KI.

I expect it to have as much impact on the average game as the sixaxis motion sensor or the pressure sensitive buttons on the dual shock 3.
post #4406 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

That absence of the "ring of light" has nothing to do with Kinect. It was never anything more than an indicator for the user. There will still have to be an identity to the controller that they can't possibly be tying to recognizing the image of the person using it, since that would negate their stated ability to use the box with Kinect turned off in games which don't require Kinect which would probably never be more than a minor percentage. If all games which use a pad require Kinect for it that promise goes up in smoke.

Once they figure out how many millions of units they won't sell to people who would have stuck with Xbox but decide to go with a PS4 because they don't want to have to deal with Kinect or have one in their house I think that they re-think that just like they rethought the DRM stuff.

I think it goes more toward the Kinect being the controller of the living room. This is the idea they need to give up on in order to have Kinect be optional and I am not sure they want to do that. I wonder how well Kinect would sell on it's own? They first one disappointed many because it never really lived up to it's promise. I know head tracking in Forza 4 was a total fail in my system.

I also wonder how well the Xbone is selling now that they changed some of their DRM. Did the reversal have an appreciable impact? Will a Kinect optional systeml really improve sales much?
post #4407 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The thing is though....kinect won't be ubiquitous, even if it's in the box. Other platforms don't support it, so the only games that are going to really utilize it are the first party titles. Which is what, 10% of the games maybe? And not even all of them....I don't recall seeing much if any kinect functionality in any of the first party games like ryse or KI.

I expect it to have as much impact on the average game as the sixaxis motion sensor or the pressure sensitive buttons on the dual shock 3.

Yah, but Uncharted had that log you could not get over without the sixaxis motion stuff. No one would have ever been able to finish the game without it, hence, HUGE loss... wink.gif
post #4408 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

At this point who knows anymore what MS will do. I was one that hoped they would stick to their guns with the DRM thing but alas they caved.

I just think for MS the new Kinect is much more than a motion control for games........its integral to alot of the features the XBOX One is promising. While they could redesign their hardware, OS(s) to make it optional I think would be a much bigger deal than turning off DRM. I have done some research on the capabilities of the new Kinect and really look forward to see what designers can do with it. If having it be part of every XBOX sold makes that easier for them so be it. Its just another gadget to have in my entertainment center full of gadget. No big deal. While I disagreed....I could see peoples hangup with the DRM........I honestly do not get the hangup with Kinect being hooked up. To me its like getting upset that a console has to have a controller or power or to be able to use all the features of a AVR you have use the remote.

The point is that with my AVR, I can use my universal remote or just walk up the the AVR and tune it. I do not have to have the AVR remote mounted in sight listening and watching in on all the activity of my living room. In fact, I have AVR remotes buried in the attic. Can I bury my Kinect?
post #4409 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

Yah, but Uncharted had that log you could not get over without the sixaxis motion stuff. No one would have ever been able to finish the game without it, hence, HUGE loss... wink.gif

Don't forget the grenade lobbing (thankfully it was optional). Sony's sixaxis controls and MS's Kinect are too things I'm perfectly happy without.
post #4410 of 14800
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The thing is though....kinect won't be ubiquitous, even if it's in the box. Other platforms don't support it, so the only games that are going to really utilize it are the first party titles. Which is what, 10% of the games maybe? And not even all of them....I don't recall seeing much if any kinect functionality in any of the first party games like ryse or KI.

I expect it to have as much impact on the average game as the sixaxis motion sensor or the pressure sensitive buttons on the dual shock 3.

+1 I dont see third party devs doing much with it.
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