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The Official Xbox One thread... - Page 178

post #5311 of 14773
Quote:
"As I mentioned earlier, I don't know what price point the Xbox One would be at without the Kinect, but it would be much less than 399.

I can't tell you how much this makes me want to cancel my preorder.
post #5312 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I can't tell you how much this makes me want to cancel my preorder.

...for the PS4? it's at $399 without the sensor...are you saying they're charging too much?
post #5313 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I can't tell you how much this makes me want to cancel my preorder.

Kinect 2 costs more than $100? I don't think so....
post #5314 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

...for the PS4? it's at $399 without the sensor...are you saying they're charging too much?

really, don't be a troll..
post #5315 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

really, don't be a troll..

You're right, not worth it.
post #5316 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Kinect 2 costs more than $100? I don't think so....

I think he'd know better than anyone else here would.
post #5317 of 14773
It's a moot point, first there's no definition of what they mean by "much less" and second there's no evidence of any kind of truth behind this claim.

Until they offer Kinectless Xbones, this is completely meaningless.
post #5318 of 14773
I have a hard time believing that the sensor costs more than the console. I suspect that most of the cost of the sensor is considering the money spent on R&D, not actual unit production cost.
post #5319 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

You guys are confusing me. Are you talking about TyrantII, or the guy that said he actually works on the Xbox One?

The supposed Xbox One dev, said the Kinect made up almost half of the cost of Xbox One--saying without it, the price point should be "much less" than $399, which is the price the PS4 is at...was that not the comparison being made? People have assumed that $399 was a fair price without the sensor, because of the similarity in hardware between the two systems--now we're hearing different. It wouldn't surprise me if people started thinking differently about that $100 assumption and thus their pre-orders. Maybe they'd want to wait out the first price drop.

Now if it makes you question your pre-order of XB1, let's take that info and make some more assumptions: Let's say the XB1 costs $300 and the sensor costs $200. So then they could sell the XB1 at $300 right? Do the specs of the PS4 make it worth $100 more? That was the question that immediately popped into my head if what that guy says is true. However, I haven't pre-ordered a PS4, so no need to question that decision...that's why I was wondering if you had second thoughts regarding the PS4. I don't know, maybe that thought never entered your mind.

No, it doesnt make me question my preorder for the PS4, it earned being my primary system by having the best specs. The X1 is just going to be secondary, basically for exclusives...so I'd like it to be as cheap as possible. I've made peace with paying an extra $100 for that silly device, but an extra $150-200? That just might be enough override early adopter compulsion. Its certainly going to increase the likelihood that I return it if it doesnt blow me away immediately.
post #5320 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

It's a moot point, first there's no definition of what they mean by "much less" and second there's no evidence of any kind of truth behind this claim.

Until they offer Kinectless Xbones, this is completely meaningless.

The guy who said it is definitely legit...that's got to count for something.
post #5321 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I think he'd know better than anyone else here would.

Who's he? An Anon reddit with a throwaway account?

I could see them selling it for more than $100, but I have a very hard time believing is costs more than $100 to manufacture. Especially with economies of scale. And if thats true, MS really thought a $150-200 camera addon was a better idea than a $300-350 console?

Edit: reddit page is gone....

Here's the link http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1i71s5/i_am_an_xbox_one_dev_ask_me_almost_anything/
Edited by TyrantII - 7/13/13 at 5:00pm
post #5322 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post

I have a hard time believing that the sensor costs more than the console. I suspect that most of the cost of the sensor is considering the money spent on R&D, not actual unit production cost.

He never said that it costs more than the console. Almost as much, which could be $300/$200, a 60%/40$ split. The tech in the Kinect is very new and I believe MS bought it. Could be R&D but it still is a factor. The Kinect 2 cost more than a $100 to make, IMO
post #5323 of 14773
Even if Kinect 2 were half of the cost of the console, which seems very unlikely, that doesn't mean that a Kinect-less SKU would cost less than $399.99, just that MS would profit more. They wouldn't have to price it any lower than the PS4 and I doubt that they would.
Edited by michaeltscott - 7/13/13 at 6:18pm
post #5324 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Who's he? An Anon reddit with a throwaway account?

I could see them selling it for more than $100, but I have a very hard time believing is costs more than $100 to manufacture. Especially with economies of scale. And if thats true, MS really thought a $150-200 camera addon was a better idea than a $300-350 console?

Edit: reddit page is gone....

Here's the link http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1i71s5/i_am_an_xbox_one_dev_ask_me_almost_anything/

Who confirmed with the reddit mods by sending them a pic of his badge and two X1s. He's legit.

Sony thought blu-ray was worth a $500 console...so it's not too hard to believe. They think its a killer app.
Edited by bd2003 - 7/13/13 at 5:45pm
post #5325 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Who confirmed with the reddit mods by sending them a pic of his badge and two X1s. He's legit.

I have no doubt the guy is legit but it sounds like it was done with the blessings of MS. There seems to be no real information . After saying there are a 1000 people working on it and basically all the real questions we want answers to he seems to believe that he would be singled out which means it would be a person who knew it all, perhaps it MN himself....

Can's see how someone would risk their job to share info with the masses but then agan there wasn't any real info shared.
post #5326 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I can't imagine voice commands doing much to satisfy the lack of enough buttons in certain games like Mass Effect releases.

Perhaps it can serve as shortcuts to menus like the radial action circle. But the selection of what you want from out of that circle is going to still be done with physical controls.
In case you didn't know... Mass Effect 3 can already be played without ever going to the radial menus using Kinect 1 for voice commands. You can change weapons (you can even say "boomstick" for shotgun), change your team's weapons ("Liara, Pistol"), order your team ("Garrus, Move"), change ammo types ("Incendiary ammo" or "Garrus, Cryo Ammo"), issue team power commands ("Liara, Singularity"), etc., all without ever pausing the game to enter the radial menus. You can even speak the dialogue options if you want to, and it works with pretty surprising accuracy. If the new Kinect's voice recognition is improved, I can see it being used in some cool ways. And I definitely hope they bring that mechanic back for the next Mass Effect!
post #5327 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

I have no doubt the guy is legit but it sounds like it was done with the blessings of MS. There seems to be no real information . After saying there are a 1000 people working on it and basically all the real questions we want answers to he seems to believe that he would be singled out which means it would be a person who knew it all, perhaps it MN himself....

Can's see how someone would risk their job to share info with the masses but then agan there wasn't any real info shared.

There's no way half the things that guy said came with MS's blessing. He probably did more harm than good, but at least he sounded honest.
post #5328 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Quote:
"As I mentioned earlier, I don't know what price point the Xbox One would be at without the Kinect, but it would be much less than 399.

Did the guy say this? If so, it's apparently been removed from the discussion.
post #5329 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

There's no way half the things that guy said came with MS's blessing. He probably did more harm than good, but at least he sounded honest.

I didn't hear anything harmful which wasn't already known.

Quote:
"The facts are on paper, the PS4 has better specs and the most you can debate is by how much.
What I can tell you is I have played Forza, Killer instinct, and Ryse on the Xbox One. They look as good as the games I play on a high end PC.".

I mean that sounds very much like "But did you see Titanfall"


then there is
Quote:
Couldn't you include it in the box and not require it to be hooked up? It seems like the 2 issues are not mutually exclusive, and people uncomfortable/uninterested with the Kinect could just throw it in a closet while it's still in every box at the same time.

The number of features on the Xbox One that uses the Kinect is almost too many to count. I can't imagine using the console without it. To me, I see two ways to deal with this.
1) Not require the Kinect to be always plugged in and have all these features turned off by default.
2) Enable these features by default and turn them off if people choose to turn off the Kinect.

The first choice would undermine our guarantee to game developers.


Their Guarantee ? That makes NO sense at all. If he had said their Guarantee to advertisers I would have believe it . I can't see how being able to disconnect the Kinect undermines anything.

Its comments like this that make me question everything.
post #5330 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

Their Guarantee ? That makes NO sense at all. If he had said their Guarantee to advertisers I would have believe it . I can't see how being able to disconnect the Kinect undermines anything.

Its comments like this that make me question everything.
A peripheral not being plugged in would likely respond differently than one that had its privacy settings all set to "Incommunicado".

If you tell a developer that he doesn't need to add thousands of lines of code to cover the not-plugged-in version, he'd probably be happier. Less code, less testing, the joy of One Platform To Rule Them All...
post #5331 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Ok, I was under the impression that it was a touch "screen", no sense in getting grumpy about it. Regardless, I see it as something that distracts from gameplay and like others have said if you have to look away from a game even for a second or two it can mean death. I can't see how, based on where the pad is placed, it would be intuitive for people to use. That's not to say that it couldn't be as I haven't even had it in my grubby little hands - I can only go by what I see.

That said, I have used both the PS3 and 360 controllers and the 360 is way better for me, especially the L2/R2 triggers which curve to fit my fingers the right way instead of my index fingers slipping off.
I hope that's not the case. Even if it is something as simple as using pre-determined voice commands that will trigger events/actions from NPC's, that would be very cool, IMHO.

Try researching the DS4. It may surprise you. Voice controls can easily be implemented by all the systems. It just needs a mic and I think they all use a mic.
post #5332 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

In case you didn't know... Mass Effect 3 can already be played without ever going to the radial menus using Kinect 1 for voice commands. You can change weapons (you can even say "boomstick" for shotgun), change your team's weapons ("Liara, Pistol"), order your team ("Garrus, Move"), change ammo types ("Incendiary ammo" or "Garrus, Cryo Ammo"), issue team power commands ("Liara, Singularity"), etc., all without ever pausing the game to enter the radial menus. You can even speak the dialogue options if you want to, and it works with pretty surprising accuracy. If the new Kinect's voice recognition is improved, I can see it being used in some cool ways. And I definitely hope they bring that mechanic back for the next Mass Effect!

I didn't know that (Although I'm aware Skyrim has Kinect voice commands). It actually works well?

I can't imagine keeping all the names and such straight in something like an Elder Scrolls game for anything too specific. Some generic stuff like saying torch, sure, I could see how that could work well if it's something commonly used that you're switching back and forth from if there's not a dedicated button and it saves you from jumping into things like inventory screens and conserves buttons for more important functions.

But if you asked me to name everything that I have mapped to the shortcut menu you can bring up on my Oblivion save, for instance, I couldn't tell you most of it by name. And I can't see something like "thing that shoots out fire" being recognized by the game.

But I suppose it has its place for some basic functions. Not sure about a couple of the instances you listed, but team order commands sound genuinely beneficial to me.
Edited by Leo_Ames - 7/13/13 at 7:56pm
post #5333 of 14773
Quote:
Try researching the DS4. It may surprise you. Voice controls can easily be implemented by all the systems. It just needs a mic and I think they all use a mic.

If that's the case, then it would seem that just using voice commands would be a gross under-utilization of the Kinect. How to make use of the motion detection in a meaningful, non-cheesy way while still using the controller is something I can't see right now. Perhaps having a split controller - where each one has its own analog stick and buttons so you could make hand movements/gestures but not have to take your hand off the controller? Hell, bring back the Nintendo glove!
post #5334 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I didn't know that (Although I'm aware Skyrim has Kinect voice commands). It actually works well?

I can't imagine keeping all the names and such straight in something like an Elder Scrolls game for anything too specific. Some generic stuff like saying torch, sure, I could see how that could work well if it's something commonly used that you're switching back and forth from if there's not a dedicated button and it saves you from jumping into things like inventory screens and conserves buttons for more important functions.

Here's a list of the Skyrim voice commands:

Skyrim Kinect Voice Commands (Click to show)
skykinect.jpg


skykinect2.jpg


skykinect3.jpg


skykinect4.jpg

Skyrim Kinect Introduction Video (Click to show)

For me it works just as well as in that demo clip. Voice commands are a great boon to complicated RPGs.
post #5335 of 14773
I actually meant does it work well in Mass Effect 3. I've only seen Skyrim players compliment it like you did so I know that they did a nice job implementing it in logical ways. Even then though, I don't see ever using much of that if I had Kinect 1.0. I imagine even those making heavy use of Kinect are still regularly utilizing conventional means for a good bit of it.

But I can certainly see how it has a place and how it can be a nice supplement. The follower commands is one area where I could envision relying on it where as I doubt something like the map shortcuts would get used much, if at all.
post #5336 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I actually meant does it work well in Mass Effect 3. I've only seen Skyrim players compliment it like you did so I know that they did a nice job implementing it in logical ways. Even then though, I don't see ever using much of that if I had Kinect 1.0. I imagine even those making heavy use of Kinect are still regularly utilizing conventional means for a good bit of it.

But I can certainly see how it has a place and how it can be a nice supplement. The follower commands is one area where I could envision relying on it where as I doubt something like the map shortcuts would get used much, if at all.

it works well in Mass Effect 3 (particularly if you play with headphones so you don't have to depend on the abilities of the Kinect noise cancellation). however, it's done in real-time so a lot of players don't get that breather away from the action that the radial menu provides. if you don't like the idea of stopping everything when you bring up the menu, the kinect will feel pretty awesome. if you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, you'll feel overwhelmed by the real-time aspect of the kinect control. at least the voice commands are not nested and do provide a shortcut.

as for people that say voice commands could easily be added to other systems, it's not a trivial process. Microsoft has been working on this stuff for a very long time (since 1993). Microsoft had created a standard set of tools and API for speech that make it easy to implement. It's also localized the speech to numerous languages for easy implementation. Just adding a mic and a few lines of code isn't going to cut it. if it was easy, everybody would have it.

Right now on other platforms, usually it's left up to the developer to implement it. They have to do all the work or license some speech engine like Apple did with Nuance for Siri. It's why there's so few games outside of Kinect games that implement it. A waste of resources when games are on budget and time constraints. Now, Sony can pay for the licensing and then make it available to developers but they don't. fend for yourself.

You take Skyrim as the example. It actually uses 2 engines. for regular voice commands, it uses Microsoft's set of tools. You just speak and the Kinect interprets everything and spits out a response.

for dragon shouts, you need to hold down a button which kicks in the custom speech recognition for a very select few commands which of course they needed since dragon shouts are completely incoherent to any of Microsoft's defined languages.
post #5337 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

No, it doesnt make me question my preorder for the PS4, it earned being my primary system by having the best specs. The X1 is just going to be secondary, basically for exclusives...so I'd like it to be as cheap as possible. I've made peace with paying an extra $100 for that silly device, but an extra $150-200? That just might be enough override early adopter compulsion. Its certainly going to increase the likelihood that I return it if it doesnt blow me away immediately.

Since when does the cost of a device dictate what it is sold for? A device could cost a certain amount and be sold for less than it costs. A device could cost a certain amount and be sold for five times what the actual cost is. The item will be sold based on what the market will take. If the PS4 or XBOne cost $200 to make, that doesn't necessarily mean it would be sold for $300, $400 or even $500.
Edited by aaronwt - 7/14/13 at 7:50am
post #5338 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

... Voice controls can easily be implemented by all the systems. It just needs a mic and I think they all use a mic.

I see this expressed quite often and is an extremely simplistic and naive view. As onlysublime outlined above there is a whole lot going on above and beyond just plugging in a microphone, and saying "Voice controls can easily be implemented by all the systems" is flat out wrong.
post #5339 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdethloff View Post

I see this expressed quite often and is an extremely simplistic and naive view. As onlysublime outlined above there is a whole lot going on above and beyond just plugging in a microphone, and saying "Voice controls can easily be implemented by all the systems" is flat out wrong.

Care to ellaborate? My phone does voice controls fairly well and AFAIK it does not have a microphone array. Possibly a secondary mic for noise cancellation, but the beauty of a gaming environment is the processor knows the majority of the background noise ahead of time.

I can see that the software is complex for recognizing specific commands, but that's independent of the hardware.
post #5340 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Since when does the cost of a device dictate what it is sold for? A device could cost a certain amount and be sold for less than it costs. A device could cost a certain amount and be sold for five times what the actual cost is. The item will be sold based on what the market will take. If the PS4 or XBOne cost $200 to make, that doesn't necessarily mean it would be sold for $300, $400 or even $500.

It doesn't dictate it, but it's got a hell of a lot to do with it.
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