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The Official Xbox One thread... - Page 192

post #5731 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

I personally hope it stays included because I want to see what they can do with it with 100% adoption. What they need to do is lower the price of the system and make it optional to connect. Keep it in the box and it will be assumed everyone has one. You shouldn't need to have it connected at all times for that to be true unless there's a legit technical reason and MS so far hasn't been forthcoming on the exact technical reasons why the Kinect needs to be connected. All we've had so far are rumors and that's an issue. Tell me why it's included (not just market speak), the technical reasons why it has to be connected, and I'll be fine with it. Until then it's only fuel for the fire for people assuming they're trying to gouge on price.

Also, and this is just personal opinion, for those that are complaining it needs to be optional, consider for a minute that they always intended the system to have Kinect. It's not an option, it's what it is. I don't get the mentality that because something was an accessory one generation it always has to be an accessory. While we don't have pure technical reasons yet for it needing to be included for me it's like a controller. You don't sell the system without the controller, so they don't sell the system without Kinect. I think people are assuming it's an optional accessory and I'm not so sure that thinking is justified. Of course if they ever end up decoupling it from the system then those people will have been proven correct and MS will have a lot of explaining to do.

If they make it optional to connect, then they don't have 100% adoption. Either it's bundled and required to be always on and viewing you, then devs can rely on it being there. If its not 100% required, then devs have to code around the potential of it not being there, so they might as well sell one without. It's either all or nothing.

I really wanted Sony to mandate that all games support 3D. I love it, I think it's the future too. Its clear that the consumer support isn't there yet...and until it is, a 3D mandate would probably have met a similar reception. It wouldn't require additional hardware in the box so it's not a perfect analogy. But until then, I accept that 3D in games is going to be an afterthought, if its even supported at all. I know you guys have big expectations for what kinect can do...but even it its in the box, it's going to be equally half assed until the majority of people would start complaining if a game doesnt require kinect.
post #5732 of 14773
http://www.gamespot.com/news/white-xbox-one-development-kit-spotted-online-6411974
post #5733 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

If they make it optional to connect, then they don't have 100% adoption. Either it's bundled and required to be always on and viewing you, then devs can rely on it being there. If its not 100% required, then devs have to code around the potential of it not being there, so they might as well sell one without. It's either all or nothing.

I really wanted Sony to mandate that all games support 3D. I love it, I think it's the future too. Its clear that the consumer support isn't there yet...and until it is, a 3D mandate would probably have met a similar reception. It wouldn't require additional hardware in the box so it's not a perfect analogy. But until then, I accept that 3D in games is going to be an afterthought, if its even supported at all. I know you guys have big expectations for what kinect can do...but even it its in the box, it's going to be equally half assed until the majority of people would start complaining if a game doesnt require kinect.

Nah, all that needs to be assumed is that it's in every box. You can easily connect it if you need to. If you sell the Kinect that's bad on you because I'd hope they inform you that Kinect features enabled in the game in question, same as today (not say better with Kinect, something like Kinect features included). Not including it in the box is very different though and says to the developer "we're not confident of this device, mess with it if you want to but whatever". Requiring Kinect features be included in the game is something else entirely. You shouldn't force the developer to use a feature of the box but you should be confident as a developer that if you do include Kinect features every single user of the system will be able to access them right out of the box. Putting it out of the box destroys that confidence.

In the box = always available
out of the box = no better than the new PSEye or current Kinect.

Trust me, the people will let you know if those awesome Kinect features you included are desired. If we ever want to get more than crappy Kinect games it needs to be included in the box. Not doing so will damn it to irrelevance and forever be labeled as gimmicky.

Comparing it to 3D is not only an imperfect comparison as you put it but also flat out wrong. You need a 3D tv to make 3D work, something much different than having the Kinect in the box but not requiring it be connected. The assumption that a Kinect is there is higher because it's sold with every system. Unless they start selling 3Dtvs with PS4s it's a totally different scenario.

We can agree to disagree though. wink.gif
post #5734 of 14773

Looks nice. I don't like the two tone in black but in white it is very sleek.
post #5735 of 14773
I have seen reports from analysts that the Xbox One will have 2-3 times more units for sale at launch. This is what has already been pre-ordered. I highly doubt these are just guesses and more like insider information on units sold by each retailer. So if true (and most likely is), Microsoft will not sell a unit without Kinect ever. If sales stall they can reduce the price to match Sony out just hit a price point more are comfortable with. Once units are in homes people will see what each can do. Graphics will be similar so features will most likely push people towards each console. Like it or not, Kinect will appeal to casuals. IMO anyway
post #5736 of 14773
Well I know where the power button is now lol. I wasn't sure if the light up Xbox symbol was the power button or not.
post #5737 of 14773
the market should dictate where gaming is going to go. If sixaxis was awesome, then games would use it, but it is not, it is gimmicky. If the wiiU tablet is awesome, than everyone would be developing for it and the wiiU would be flying off the shelf. Kinect needs to be an option.. if it is the most awesome next gen, game changing, can't live without piece of equipment, then the market will demand it, if not, well then it will be what the kinect is currently, good for casuals and kids. Either way the market should decide...
post #5738 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

the market should dictate where gaming is going to go. If sixaxis was awesome, then games would use it, but it is not, it is gimmicky. If the wiiU tablet is awesome, than everyone would be developing for it and the wiiU would be flying off the shelf. Kinect needs to be an option.. if it is the most awesome next gen, game changing, can't live without piece of equipment, then the market will demand it, if not, well then it will be what the kinect is currently, good for casuals and kids. Either way the market should decide...

Excellent post.
post #5739 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

I have seen reports from analysts that the Xbox One will have 2-3 times more units for sale at launch. This is what has already been pre-ordered. I highly doubt these are just guesses and more like insider information on units sold by each retailer. So if true (and most likely is), Microsoft will not sell a unit without Kinect ever. If sales stall they can reduce the price to match Sony out just hit a price point more are comfortable with. Once units are in homes people will see what each can do. Graphics will be similar so features will most likely push people towards each console. Like it or not, Kinect will appeal to casuals. IMO anyway

I love the flow of logic.

1. " analysts that the Xbox One will have 2-3 times more units for sale at launch" - One analyst pulls numbers from his ass...
2. "This is what has already been pre-ordered. " - What? No... but continue.
3. "I highly doubt these are just guesses and more like insider information " - Really? You don't know the gaming business much. Micheal Pacter is an analyst and gets it wrong all the time. He predicted the XB1 to be under $400.
4. "So if true (and most likely is)" - Astounding logic, you could be an analyst too!

Analyst are not insiders, if they were it would be insider trading and illegal (they work for investment groups). They are people who make predictions based on public info. Where this guy got info that "supply chain checks" infers 2-3x more units is unknown, but real insider info has also said that MS is having yield issues with the APU.

I'll make a prediction here since I am as qualified as any analyst: MS is behind on production. They are late with dev kits, rumors of APU issues, late Nov release implies waiting until the last minute.. They will ship less than 1 million unit WW in 2013.
post #5740 of 14773
http://www.gamespot.com/news/rare-xbox-one-kinect-is-10x-more-powerful-6411977
post #5741 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

the market should dictate where gaming is going to go. If sixaxis was awesome, then games would use it, but it is not, it is gimmicky. If the wiiU tablet is awesome, than everyone would be developing for it and the wiiU would be flying off the shelf. Kinect needs to be an option.. if it is the most awesome next gen, game changing, can't live without piece of equipment, then the market will demand it, if not, well then it will be what the kinect is currently, good for casuals and kids. Either way the market should decide...

And what do those two other features have in common? They were included in every box. You have to at least give them a chance and inclusion does that. Accessorizing it immediately renders it irrelevant. I will say though that the first Sixaxis was fairly inaccurate and the new Sixaxis control is much improved. Maybe that will help some?
post #5742 of 14773

That article just makes me long for the old Rare that used to make great games back on the N64. I would love a new Perfect Dark with co-op, counter agent all online.
post #5743 of 14773
I find it surprising that Microsoft is saying they will have TONS units ready for launch when we keep hearing about how low yields, they don't seem to have specs finalized yet, wasn't it only last week they decided to increase the gpu speed by 100%?

I'll be surprised if they can even make launch never mind have tons of consoles ready. I don't care how much yelling Steve Balmer does at his, now restructed team, yields and yields. You can't yell at silicon.

As for my sources. Well lots of articles that have been posted through out this thread over the past few weeks.
post #5744 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

And what do those two other features have in common? They were included in every box. You have to at least give them a chance and inclusion does that. Accessorizing it immediately renders it irrelevant. I will say though that the first Sixaxis was fairly inaccurate and the new Sixaxis control is much improved. Maybe that will help some?

The other way to look at it is that maybe the Wii U would be selling much better if it didn't have the $100 gamepad weighing it down. They could have put it out at $199 without it, or have made a more powerful system that might not have been instantly obsolete.
post #5745 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripeer View Post

I find it surprising that Microsoft is saying they will have TONS units ready for launch when we keep hearing about how low yields, they don't seem to have specs finalized yet, wasn't it only last week they decided to increase the gpu speed by 100%?

I'll be surprised if they can even make launch never mind have tons of consoles ready. I don't care how much yelling Steve Balmer does at his, now restructed team, yields and yields. You can't yell at silicon.

As for my sources. Well lots of articles that have been posted through out this thread over the past few weeks.

That's the thing about rumors. We heard about last week and this information could be 4 month old information.
post #5746 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I really wanted Sony to mandate that all games support 3D. I love it, I think it's the future too. Its clear that the consumer support isn't there yet...and until it is, a 3D mandate would probably have met a similar reception. It wouldn't require additional hardware in the box so it's not a perfect analogy. But until then, I accept that 3D in games is going to be an afterthought, if its even supported at all. I know you guys have big expectations for what kinect can do...but even it its in the box, it's going to be equally half assed until the majority of people would start complaining if a game doesnt require kinect.

3D in gaming and media needs 2 things IMO. Oculus Rift & in-set, glasses-less 3D before it becomes popular.

Oculus, especially for games, provides a seamless panoramic “in the game” FOV in HD. 3D sets that look like dioramas or screens you peer into are needed, because ain’t nobody got time for putting on those annoying 3D glasses outside of movie nights or the hardcore gamer.

Once both kick off, I think we’ll see a revolution into the medium. Until then, it’ll continue to be niche.
post #5747 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

That's the thing about rumors. We heard about last week and this information could be 4 month old information.

Very true.
post #5748 of 14773
OXM's UK site has a nice article about the upcoming achievement changes. There is a lot of detail in the article.
Quote:
First, the broad strokes: developers can now add Achievements to games at weekly, monthly or quarterly intervals without releasing them via DLC add-ons, because the associated data is kept in the cloud rather than built inflexibly into the game itself. "We've found a pattern where a user will buy a game, they'll play the game, they'll max out the Achievements within three to four weeks, and they're still playing the game six months later," Gibson observed. "We really wanted to make all our Achievement systems fully embrace cloud power. Which is why in this generation it's all cloud Achievements."

"So, the general guidance we give to Achievements on how they're utilised - conceptually, that's the same, but the big decoupling we did is that on Xbox 360, your Achievement is actually a bunch of client code you write in your game, and that's still largely true on Xbox One, but the client code is instrumentation," he explains. "So you instrument your game with all these events and then you go to a web tool and say, 'oh OK, I want a new Achievement when this event crosses this threshold'. You can add an achievement without ever updating your game client."


http://www.oxm.co.uk/58952/features/how-microsofts-super-charged-xbox-one-achievements-gamerscore-20-challenges-game-dvr-and-more/?page=1
post #5749 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

I love the flow of logic.

1. " analysts that the Xbox One will have 2-3 times more units for sale at launch" - One analyst pulls numbers from his ass...
2. "This is what has already been pre-ordered. " - What? No... but continue.
3. "I highly doubt these are just guesses and more like insider information " - Really? You don't know the gaming business much. Micheal Pacter is an analyst and gets it wrong all the time. He predicted the XB1 to be under $400.
4. "So if true (and most likely is)" - Astounding logic, you could be an analyst too!

Analyst are not insiders, if they were it would be insider trading and illegal (they work for investment groups). They are people who make predictions based on public info. Where this guy got info that "supply chain checks" infers 2-3x more units is unknown, but real insider info has also said that MS is having yield issues with the APU.

MSFT had a pretty bad week, and they also announced a 900 million write-down on Surface inventory. Any time you hear a financial “analyst” perk up with good info during a pretty bum week, be sure they’re most likely looking to pump and dump the stock to regain some losses.

The guy doesn’t know the MSRP of the product being sold. That should tell you all you need to know.

If there’s truth to it, my guess is supplies are ramping up for 3:1 vs the 360 launch, which wouldn’t be uprising. CE Logistics is much better post iPhone, than back in 05-07.
post #5750 of 14773
That analyst could also be trying to dump his own stock.. In either case we are about 4 weeks away from all the answers
post #5751 of 14773
post #5752 of 14773

I think we all just need to come to terms with the fact that the Kinect is part of the XB1, not an accessory. That's it. Plain and simple. Some people think that is a horrible idea, some people like the idea. But I do think we can all agree that there will be more incentive from EVERY developer making games on the XB1 to add some kind of cool feature that uses the Kinect if they know the entire user-base has a kinect, be it the simplest of voice commands or something else we haven't even thought of yet.
post #5753 of 14773
Gamescon can't get here soon enough.
post #5754 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahartig View Post

I think we all just need to come to terms with the fact that the Kinect is part of the XB1, not an accessory. That's it. Plain and simple. Some people think that is a horrible idea, some people like the idea. But I do think we can all agree that there will be more incentive from EVERY developer making games on the XB1 to add some kind of cool feature that uses the Kinect if they know the entire user-base has a kinect, be it the simplest of voice commands or something else we haven't even thought of yet.

THANK YOU! Someone actually gets it.
post #5755 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

the market should dictate where gaming is going to go. If sixaxis was awesome, then games would use it, but it is not, it is gimmicky. If the wiiU tablet is awesome, than everyone would be developing for it and the wiiU would be flying off the shelf. Kinect needs to be an option.. if it is the most awesome next gen, game changing, can't live without piece of equipment, then the market will demand it, if not, well then it will be what the kinect is currently, good for casuals and kids. Either way the market should decide...
The market only gets to dictate that through sales, not as some third-party to the design process. THIS is the system Microsoft wants to release, period. They have designed it so that there are specific system resources allocated to its existence in the system, just as with the controller. Perhaps they should have just forsaken the name Kinect so there was no mental relation to the previous peripheral, because that seems to be what people are hung up on - a previous iteration being optional to an existing system. But Microsoft themselves said that they were treating the former Kinect as a second console launch of sorts, a new platform. This time out, they choose to have a newer and better version as part of their new platform.

And while I get that some people may not be fond of it, there comes a point when you need to stop drawing conclusions based on the previous peripheral and wait to see WHY Microsoft wants this to be part of the platform. They have time to clarify why they're so adamant about it being ubiquitous to their new platform... but honestly, I hope they just stay the course and let it speak for itself at launch. If it crashes and burns, so be it.

I liken it to when the original Wii was revealed. Most hardcore gamers I know were like, "WTF? I don't want that garbage!" And yet, it sold like hotcakes. Sure, the WiiU didn't fare as well... but I would rather companies TRY to innovate than just intentionally keep doing the same things over and over again. If it pays off, great. If not, we move on to the next thing. Not all innovations pay off in the end. Personally, while I understand both sides of this equation, I'm excited to see what they're able to do by completely dedicating themselves to this new tech and STILL give us the gaming we're used to from the Xbox brand in addition to it.

And they are. I'm really glad those rumors of a Kinect-less system were false. I think it's time for people to relax and see what this new tech actually offers when it's out before they condemn it. I'm glad that Xbox One is differentiating itself from the competition in a way that goes beyond just the online ecosystem or who has more raw power.
post #5756 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripeer View Post

Very true.
Or...the information could be totally false. This topic has spawned a return of FUD to these forums, the likes of which haven't existed since BD v HDDVD! rolleyes.gif

The thing which is really crazy for me is that people just gobble it up. The age of critical thinking is dead.
post #5757 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahartig View Post

I think we all just need to come to terms with the fact that the Kinect is part of the XB1, not an accessory. That's it. Plain and simple. Some people think that is a horrible idea, some people like the idea. But I do think we can all agree that there will be more incentive from EVERY developer making games on the XB1 to add some kind of cool feature that uses the Kinect if they know the entire user-base has a kinect, be it the simplest of voice commands or something else we haven't even thought of yet.

Personally I hope they use head movement for a look function similar to IR tracker. Implemented in a Flight sim or a first person shooter would be ideal. This would allow for the user to look while moving, which i find extremely difficult coordinating the left and right stick to move straight while looking. Also another genre that I like is strategy games, similar to Total war series.. One of the draw backs to this kind of game on a console is the limited amount of control buttons and lack of mouse. Now with the controller, kinect and smartglass the possibility of doing this on a console is possible. The precise movements of a mouse maybe potentially replaced by the kinect (using your hand to select units etc.). I understand the argument against the kinect inclusion, but I for one am excited to see how the developers use the technology.
post #5758 of 14773
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/07/24/microsoft-to-announce-indie-self-publishing-new-certification-process.aspx

As much as I hate how full of crap the indie games are on 360, I'm glad that Microsoft is trying to address the concerns of indie devs going forward. Also, the ability to make any Xbox One capable of testing their code is a pretty slick move on their part.
post #5759 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post

Or...the information could be totally false. This topic has spawned a return of FUD to these forums, the likes of which haven't existed since BD v HDDVD! rolleyes.gif

The thing which is really crazy for me is that people just gobble it up. The age of critical thinking is dead.

it's all the usual suspects pushing all the usual FUD...
post #5760 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahartig View Post

I think we all just need to come to terms with the fact that the Kinect is part of the XB1, not an accessory. That's it. Plain and simple. Some people think that is a horrible idea, some people like the idea. But I do think we can all agree that there will be more incentive from EVERY developer making games on the XB1 to add some kind of cool feature that uses the Kinect if they know the entire user-base has a kinect, be it the simplest of voice commands or something else we haven't even thought of yet.

I agree it's most likely not going anywhere. I also agree that it’s most likely not going anywhere (that just including it isn’t the golden ticket). Game consoles history is wrought with innovative (usually expensive) ideas (always “ahead of their time”) being thrown into consoles that never materialize into anything worthwhile, and just become a drag on sales.

Developers might play a bit with it, but mostly they need a reason to justify the time. The only justification in the end is something that will sell more games, not finding a reason so MS can say “we told you so”. Especially since right now it seems 90% of the ideas are just mimicking or allowing functions that the controller does better, quicker, and less gimmicky.

MS is hoping someone, anyone, can come up with that killer app, because right now they themselves don’t have the answer to why people should pay $100+ for it inclusion. “Trust us” is not as strong an argument as $100 off to most consumers. “do something with this it's included” isn’t a strong argument to developers, when they have no reason to believe it’ll sell more games for them over spending time on getting getter AA, FPS, texture detail, controls or more gameplay into their games. They know their bread and butter, and with budgets and costs what they are, they’re not going to sit around and experiment just because MS included something in every XBone.

Yes, It increases the odds someone might. But it’s not a paradigm shift, and until that killer app using it shows up, no one is going to give it much thought. Look at the rush to Wii after Nintendo hit it out of the park with their system, and their first party motion control games. The Wii had the same issues the WiiU is having now, but those two bullet points forced developers into playing ball; a large installation base and proof that spending time on Wii remote games would payoff. (not that they did, but it was what was needed to even get them to try).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I liken it to when the original Wii was revealed. Most hardcore gamers I know were like, "WTF? I don't want that garbage!" And yet, it sold like hotcakes.

The Wii had it’s ducks lined up, and had software showing exactly why they went with their Wii remote controls and how they were beneficial to their big first party titles. They sold it their customers. Plus it was a heck of a lot cheaper, making the gamble to try it not as high.

MS has been nothing but crickets and call that it’s going to be great, eventually, sometime. They need specific games with some pretty impressive implementations using Kinect 2 NOW to justify it to most consumers. They need to sell it, and they need to do a good job of selling it. Especially since Kinect, for all intents and purposes, was a dud once people had more time with it. A couple gimmicks in a couple of 3rd party games isn’t going to cut it.

They really need a much clearer vision of how it’s going to improve gaming, and they need software (at launch) that attempts to bring that new vision to consumers. Right now, it seems it’s more about the technology and gadget itself than the implementation; so people are wondering why bother. They’re not the ones getting giddy over playing with it for a tech perspective. They are waiting for a reason on why it’s been merged into the system and how it will make their expereince better.
Edited by TyrantII - 7/24/13 at 12:15pm
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