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The Official Xbox One thread... - Page 194

post #5791 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

"It's just that we still don't have a solid example to show you why this isn't just PR BS. But we will. Eventually. Trust us. There's value! It's next gen!"

Really. They keep bring this up, but they've shown nothing. If they're saving it for some secret meeting unveil like apparently everything else, ditch those plans and roll out the fireworks! People need reasons.

Maybe they'll show it off the night before release, and claim it was their plan all along. tongue.gif
post #5792 of 14773
So, the same people that complained about the Kinect being always on (over foil hat privacy concerns, which Microsoft graciously changed to allow it to be turned off) are now stating that if it can be turned off, then it is obviously not mandatory and should be sold separately. WTF. The Kinect is part of the Xbox One. If you don't like it, there are other options (and forums).

There will be exponentially more games that require the Kinect with the Xbox One. There are already some great examples of uses listed throughout this thread (between the vocal minority of naysayers). I think the Kinect 1.0 was pretty good but had a few issues, ALL of which have been addressed with the Kinect 2.0!

Bring it on! (The Xbox One that is, not broken records.)
post #5793 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5nz View Post

So, the same people that complained about the Kinect being always on (over foil hat privacy concerns, which Microsoft graciously changed to allow it to be turned off) are now stating that if it can be turned off, then it is obviously not mandatory and should be sold separately. WTF. The Kinect is part of the Xbox One. If you don't like it, there are other options (and forums).
I agree... but Microsoft didn't "change" the Kinect privacy function for Xbox One. Most of those features already exist on Xbox 360, and they're just continuing them. They just released more information since the tin foil hat brigade went a' ranting on teh internets. They have said from the beginning that you would be able to use the controller to do things the same way you do now if you so choose, but that they don't think you will when you try what they have planned. Some people are just too impatient to wait for that part. I think that's what annoys me most... People harp on something Microsoft hasn't said until they do say something, then they complain about it because it wasn't the way THEY would have done it. Not that MS didn't totally blow the messaging from the get-go... but at this point, I'd be happier if they just did a little more "show, don't tell" and less PR speak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5nz View Post

There will be exponentially more games that require the Kinect with the Xbox One. There are already some great examples of uses listed throughout this thread (between the vocal minority of naysayers). I think the Kinect 1.0 was pretty good but had a few issues, ALL of which have been addressed with the Kinect 2.0!

Bring it on! (The Xbox One that is, not broken records.)
I agree. They've addressed pretty much every problem the original had, all without using any of the existing tech. And they've given devs a library for it that makes implementing it as easy as implementing functions for the controller. That's why I'm excited about it being ubiquitous to the platform. Devs are far more likely to use the basic libraries because they'll take very little work to code in for optional features that will enhance the game if people choose to use them. I read a TechNet article recently where they showed how easy it was to code in speech recognition using Microsoft's TellMe system, and I was blown away by the possibilities. Their natural speech recognition has come a LONG way since the original Kinect thanks to sentence analysis and machine learning. I'm also excited that they've given devs a built-in library for facial scanning. A few games made use of that on 360 and it was very cool when it worked... but it wasn't standardized as part of the library, so it wasn't widely used. It was very cool to know who was who in R6: Vegas by just seeing their face the way you would in real life rather than an icon above their head with their gamertag.
post #5794 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5nz View Post

So, the same people that complained about the Kinect being always on (over foil hat privacy concerns, which Microsoft graciously changed to allow it to be turned off) are now stating that if it can be turned off, then it is obviously not mandatory and should be sold separately.

Did you have some argument with the logic of that rolleyes.gif? If they can give us a mode in which it's not operating then it's obviously not necessary for the operation of the console (i.e., not actually a part of the Xbox One) so why does it have to be plugged in? It's an arbitrary requirement which should be dropped.
post #5795 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Is it really so bad to think that MS should sell an expensive peripheral they merged with their system by showcasing some killer apps and actual reasons for doing so? We keep hearing about how this is going to revolutionize console gaming, and then they just trail off when we ask how and why it's adding $100(+ ?) to MSRP. That really doesn't cut it. Show us a implementation of that vision!

I hear you on this and agree, but isn't it entirely possible that they don't really have that killer app yet? or maybe they are waiting to show that off in the next 3-4 month window they have before it even releases.

In my opinion, they have already showed massive potential and it's killer features. I assume you have seen the Wired video and the few other videos showing off the box man moving around and the muscle measurements. As someone else mentioned, they implement this right into a Fight Night game and wow, Badass!

I'll admit, I was an early adopter of kindect 1.0 and was pretty underwhelmed. My wife loved dance central and my niece LOVED kindect party. The game I loved the most was fruit ninja because the lag seemed to be almost non existent.

I'm skeptical regarding kinect 2.0, but what they have shown has really peaked my interest and if MSFT can't manage to get some killer games / features using it, I'll eat my shorts.
post #5796 of 14773
If they don't have something to show with a major videogame that provides justification on why it's standard equipment out of the box just a few months before launch, that sure strikes me as an excellent reason to still be questioning why this thing is planned to be a standard part of the console.

If they follow through and keep Kinect as standard, I sure hope they have a ton of excellent uses lined up to show off with it at least at some point before launch. Controlling the dashboard, casual minigame multiplayer collections, novelty aspects like how you open and close your hatch in Steel Battalion, and shortcuts with voice commands aren't going to sell the gamer like those at AVS on this thing.

There needs to be compelling and mainstream uses of it for control during gameplay that are done so well that it's clear cut that a game is significantly better off because Kinect is there.
Edited by Leo_Ames - 7/25/13 at 1:27am
post #5797 of 14773
http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/24/xbox-one-indie-self-publishing/


mixed reviews from the indies but overall positive
Quote:
The indication on Xbox One is that it's essentially XBLIG 2.0. Instead of XNA, it's Windows 8. Windows 8, which is already struggling to gain developer interest, will gain a boost from developers wishing to target the console. However, it won't be as full-fledged as published games on the system.


I guess when you open it up to everyone it makes sense that they wouldn't give full access to the the system (for piracy reasons) but you would think that there would be a developmental kit or level that indies could purchase which would allow them the same control as t AAA publishers.
Edited by samendolaro - 7/25/13 at 5:57am
post #5798 of 14773
The fact that MS chose to require the Kinect to be connected without any compelling gamer related uses makes me question their intentions (although I do have a theory or two). Based on their botched messaging and failed attempt at DRM, I don't think MS deserves the benefit of the doubt either. For my part, I'd like to see another internet s&*t storm over Kinnect, and either force MS to drop the connected requirement or force them to show us why the thing is useful for core gaming. Should be simple, but it really doesn't look like MS has a clue about why we, the gamers, need it.

And to keep saying things like, "this is the XBone MS wants us to have, if you don't like it, go buy something else," is silly. We've already seen that MS is willing to make changes to the console. If enough of their potential sales sit on the sidelines, they'll change this too.
post #5799 of 14773
As much as I would love to see and buy a Kinect 2.0 less box one, does anyone remember Rainbow Six two on original Xbox? (I think it was two, it was a long time ago).
For those that don't know Rainbow Six its tactical FPS. Think SWAT. Lot's of room clearing and hostage rescue or/and bomb defused . I might have had a storyline as well.

Anyways using your Xbox live headset you could issue commands to your teammates. It was amazing to running up to a door and shot out "Flash and clear on my command" and watch your teammates stack up. Or tell them "Flash and clear" and have them intelligently carry out your orders. It was amazingly natural and fluid. Or if you were in a fire fight and were hurt, or need to reload you can tell them to cover you or cover your 6 or what have you......

It worked so well and I never understood why it didn't take off.... maybe this will with Kinect. I would finally get the useless Halo Marines/AI to do something helpful.

It could be really cool in COD
post #5800 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/24/xbox-one-indie-self-publishing/


mixed reviews from the indies but overall positive
I guess when you open it up to everyone it makes sense that they wouldn't give full access to the the system (for piracy reasons) but you would think that there would be a developmental kit or level that indies could purchase which would allow them the same control as t AAA publishers.


Your quote is from a developer who has no inside knowledge of how far the new policy extends. This is from the Giantbomb interview with Marc Whitten.
Quote:
GB: Post-Xbox One launch and when this system is available, is there a reason for people to have proper Xbox One development kits? Is there a significant difference between what the developers get access to in terms of building their games?

Whitten: Our goal is for you to be able to have full access of the system and the services on Xbox Live. Also, this is a dev kit. This is the way that we will think about dev kits for people on my team that are working on Xbox One. There’s no “this is a second class sort of experience” type of thing. Right now, obviously, in the build-up to a platform launch, there’s lots of special builds and lots of special kits and all that kind of stuff, but that’s more time and place.

GB: But this isn’t a situation where, if you just pick up an Xbox One at Target, you’re only going to be able to access certain parts of the memory, certain parts of the graphics processor? This is going to allow you, at least eventually, once it’s all put into place, to be able to do everything that someone like Respawn is doing?

Whitten: That’s right.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-confirms-self-publishing-on-xbox-one/1100-4696/
post #5801 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

The fact that MS chose to require the Kinect to be connected without any compelling gamer related uses makes me question their intentions (although I do have a theory or two). Based on their botched messaging and failed attempt at DRM, I don't think MS deserves the benefit of the doubt either. For my part, I'd like to see another internet s&*t storm over Kinnect, and either force MS to drop the connected requirement or force them to show us why the thing is useful for core gaming. Should be simple, but it really doesn't look like MS has a clue about why we, the gamers, need it.

And to keep saying things like, "this is the XBone MS wants us to have, if you don't like it, go buy something else," is silly. We've already seen that MS is willing to make changes to the console. If enough of their potential sales sit on the sidelines, they'll change this too.

A botched message doesn't mean there's not a reason for them including it. Gamescon is coming up, try being more patient.
post #5802 of 14773
Thread Starter 
I still think the reason for including it and making it mandatory is not for gaming at all. And I'm perfectly fine with that. The reason for including it is they want this to be an "Entertainment Box". Doesn't mean it won't be great for games, but it has all fo this other functionality that is perfectly suited for motion and voice based interaction. That's what I'm most excited about for kinect. They've already demonstrated how a lot of this functionality will work.

Things like head tracking and voice commands in games are just the gravy on top.
post #5803 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

A botched message doesn't mean there's not a reason for them including it. Gamescon is coming up, try being more patient.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not like MS didn't know they were going to make Kinect such a central part of their console. They've had several opportunities to convince gamers of its usefulness, already. The reveal in May, E3 in June, and Comic-Con this month. IMHO, if they knew what they intended to do with it (core gaming related), they would have shown it off in their reveal in May. Instead, they showed off what it could do for your TV viewing experience. Someone posted earlier that it looks like they're hoping one of the devs will come up with something.
post #5804 of 14773
I'm sure they want devs to try different things with it. That doesn't mean they don't have a vision for it. Plus, really it's been what, 2.5 months since it was introduced? We still have some major events to get through before it's launched. I think people are being quick to judge and are jumping to conclusions based on personal opinion. It pays to be a bit more objective with this. It's also not like there's not been examples of possible uses. Killer Instinct was shown with possible uses. Forza 5 uses Kinect. A few 3rd party games might not be using it but really these launch games are holdovers from the previous gen and shouldn't be expected to be re-geared to take advantage of it. Heck the dash board will have numerous uses for it. I think it would be prudent to let MS show us why they are banking so much on it. Hopefully their message will get a bit clearer now that Mattrick is gone.

I guess if worse comes to worse we can always agree to disagree. smile.gif
post #5805 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripeer View Post

As much as I would love to see and buy a Kinect 2.0 less box one, does anyone remember Rainbow Six two on original Xbox? (I think it was two, it was a long time ago).
For those that don't know Rainbow Six its tactical FPS. Think SWAT. Lot's of room clearing and hostage rescue or/and bomb defused . I might have had a storyline as well.

Anyways using your Xbox live headset you could issue commands to your teammates. It was amazing to running up to a door and shot out "Flash and clear on my command" and watch your teammates stack up. Or tell them "Flash and clear" and have them intelligently carry out your orders. It was amazingly natural and fluid. Or if you were in a fire fight and were hurt, or need to reload you can tell them to cover you or cover your 6 or what have you......

It worked so well and I never understood why it didn't take off.... maybe this will with Kinect. I would finally get the useless Halo Marines/AI to do something helpful.

It could be really cool in COD

What about real military hand signals to coordinate your AI minions with the kinect. Oh the possibilities....
post #5806 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd_us View Post

What about real military hand signals to coordinate your AI minions with the kinect. Oh the possibilities....

There goes your KDR.

smile.gif
post #5807 of 14773
The Kinect can recognize individual fingers so there is no reason a game couldn't use signals which don't require hands coming off the controller.
post #5808 of 14773
Now were finally coming up with some great ideas for kinect. I really hope someone from a big fps company has thought of the same thing or reads our posts eek.gif
post #5809 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Even if the rumor were true it's no surprised that they'd deny it at this point. If they didn't I'm sure that a significant number of people who reluctantly pre-ordered the Xbox One packaged with Kinect would cancel those pre-orders and wait for the Kinect-less version to become available.

Fully agreed. MS wouldn't want to sabotage their own launch by letting it slip out that they will be releasing a package that gamers actually want in 2014.
post #5810 of 14773
Snarky but honest question....

Imagine kinect 3 can read your mind. You could issue voice commands by merely thinking to yourself. You even turn on the Xbox by just imagining the Xbox powering up. And of course, when it's "off", it's always on, but MS swears its only monitoring for the power on thought process. And no, you can't disconnect it from the Xbox 4.

It's pretty easy to imagine that this could enable some truly new and amazing gaming experiences....but would anyone actually be cool with that?
post #5811 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

If they don't have something to show with a major videogame that provides justification on why it's standard equipment out of the box just a few months before launch, that sure strikes me as an excellent reason to still be questioning why this thing is planned to be a standard part of the console.

If they follow through and keep Kinect as standard, I sure hope they have a ton of excellent uses lined up to show off with it at least at some point before launch. Controlling the dashboard, casual minigame multiplayer collections, novelty aspects like how you open and close your hatch in Steel Battalion, and shortcuts with voice commands aren't going to sell the gamer like those at AVS on this thing.

There needs to be compelling and mainstream uses of it for control during gameplay that are done so well that it's clear cut that a game is significantly better off because Kinect is there.

Guys...Please stop it. They made the thing a vital part of the console. Gettttt Over it!. Don't buy XB1 if it offends so much. It's gonna do the things I highlighted in your comment, and a lot more. Who cares if it doesn't do it all on day 1? If they just give me more than the excellent integration with Mass Effect 3, I will be a happy camper. I absolutely loved how Bioware integrated Kinect with that game. MS is looking much farther ahead on this one, than many of us here with Kinect. They are looking at seamless integration in the future with emerging Win8 PC and console techs like AR...VR...holography control...along with a wide breadth of commercial applications that may linkup with in the 'Cloud' and mobile media. I equate a lot of what's being said about Kinect 2.0 with the same kind of resistance automakers got when they first put turn signals in cars. Most people screamed...hissed...booed and yelled because they preferred using hand signals. MS absolutely doesn't need full game development integration on day one of its launch. We would all be shocked if the game dev community could pull off such a feat. But just wait until Halo 5 is launched and a few legacy games from XBox 360 are redone and major new franchises are launched by others. Everyone will be singing a very different tune. I bet that by 2016-2017...Kinect integration and use in XB1 games will be considered so essential that most will wonder how they got along without it with Kinect 1.0/XB360. PRISM/NSA stuff notwithstanding...I applaud MS for making such a bold move with Kinect & XB1. The PRISM nexus stuff is irrelevant anyway. Because of how tightly wound NSA/FBI/CIA has always been with every single Fortune 500 company. Everyone just decided to get mad about it Now. But that kind of stuff has benn going on for....well...forever (within scope of existing technologies). Again...just get over it...unless you plan to live on a remote island by yourself. Kinect is vital to the needs of XB1 games in the future...and National Security too.
post #5812 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Snarky but honest question....

Imagine kinect 3 can read your mind. You could issue voice commands by merely thinking to yourself. You even turn on the Xbox by just imagining the Xbox powering up. And of course, when it's "off", it's always on, but MS swears its only monitoring for the power on thought process. And no, you can't disconnect it from the Xbox 4.

It's pretty easy to imagine that this could enable some truly new and amazing gaming experiences....but would anyone actually be cool with that?
That is just a fallacy of reduction to absurdity.
post #5813 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post

That is just a fallacy of reduction to absurdity.

I'm not trying to make a point, I'm just curious where everyone draws the line.
post #5814 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Because of how tightly wound NSA/FBI/CIA has always been with every single Fortune 500 company. Everyone just decided to get mad about it Now. But that kind of stuff has benn going on for....well...forever (within scope of existing technologies). Again...just get over it...unless you plan to live on a remote island by yourself. Kinect is vital to the needs of XB1 games in the future...and National Security too.
There is no reason we can't have new features while expecting to maintain our right to privacy. Just about everything else you said is on the mark IMO.
post #5815 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I'm not trying to make a point, I'm just curious where everyone draws the line.
And that is implicitly trying to make a point whether you realized it or not. wink.gif
post #5816 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Snarky but honest question....

Imagine kinect 3 can read your mind. You could issue voice commands by merely thinking to yourself. You even turn on the Xbox by just imagining the Xbox powering up. And of course, when it's "off", it's always on, but MS swears its only monitoring for the power on thought process. And no, you can't disconnect it from the Xbox 4.

It's pretty easy to imagine that this could enable some truly new and amazing gaming experiences....but would anyone actually be cool with that?

Well to be honest that's a bit of a reach. We have no precedent with respect to reading your thoughts to draw an objective conclusion from. We do have precedent with respect to voice recognition, webcams, etc. There's nothing about what the One does that we haven't been exposed to at all. Is this hypothetical Xbox the first device around that reads minds? How much experience would we have with technology like that by then?

A more accurate question would be would you be ok if you knew the Kinect was reading your vital signs and configuring your experience based on that, something it has a rudimentary ability to do right now. If the Xbox was able to give you new experiences you can't get now based on how it perceives you are feeling (flush skin, beating pulse, dilated eyes, etc.) it might be intriguing. To be honest I wouldn't have much issue with it because I've come to accept that to enable new experiences technology has no choice but to get more personal. Would I be ok with reading my mind? Don't know, that's waaaaaay out there. Current me says probably not but future me who's been exposed to that sort of technology might indeed be ok with it. Hard to say.
post #5817 of 14773
I think it is likely that someone this generation will incorporate dynamic experiences based on the user's heart rate, muscle tension, etc.
post #5818 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Guys...Please stop it. They made the thing a vital part of the console. Gettttt Over it!. Don't buy XB1 if it offends so much..........

Again, this is the same argument that was made about the original DRM/connection requirements. MS obviously changed their opinion on what was so vital to the console. There's no reason that can't make similar changes with Kinect.

It's striking to me the difference in tone between the (edit: "some of the") pro Kinect posts and those that are asking for a change.
post #5819 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Again, this is the same argument that was made about the original DRM/connection requirements. MS obviously changed their opinion on what was so vital to the console. There's no reason that can't make similar changes with Kinect.

It's striking to me the difference in tone between the (edit: "some of the") pro Kinect posts and those that are asking for a change.

Exactly. I don't see anybody saying Kinect should not be offered as a peripheral for those that want it.

If there are those that don't want to be able to rent games, don't want to be able to play games offline, don't want to be able to sell their games. If MS wants to offer them a E3 patch that adds those restrictions for those specific people that want it, fine by me as long as I don't have to have the patch as well.
Edited by freemeat - 7/25/13 at 9:53am
post #5820 of 14773
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Well to be honest that's a bit of a reach. We have no precedent with respect to reading your thoughts to draw an objective conclusion from. We do have precedent with respect to voice recognition, webcams, etc. There's nothing about what the One does that we haven't been exposed to at all. Is this hypothetical Xbox the first device around that reads minds? How much experience would we have with technology like that by then?

A more accurate question would be would you be ok if you knew the Kinect was reading your vital signs and configuring your experience based on that, something it has a rudimentary ability to do right now. If the Xbox was able to give you new experiences you can't get now based on how it perceives you are feeling (flush skin, beating pulse, dilated eyes, etc.) it might be intriguing. To be honest I wouldn't have much issue with it because I've come to accept that to enable new experiences technology has no choice but to get more personal. Would I be ok with reading my mind? Don't know, that's waaaaaay out there. Current me says probably not but future me who's been exposed to that sort of technology might indeed be ok with it. Hard to say.

It's hypothetical, so lets say its not the first mind reading device per se, but it's a significant step up from what we've had. It can hear your inner voice as if you said it out loud, and it can see what's in your minds eye as well as a camera. But it can't dig into your subconscious....basically, it can do what kinect 2 can do, but you don't have to actually say or do anything, just imagine it.
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