or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Gaming & Content Streaming › Home Theater Gaming › Xbox Area › The Official Xbox One thread...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Xbox One thread... - Page 204

post #6091 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

This keeps coming up, but requiring Kinect to be connected isn't going to make 3rd party devs do anything with it that they can't do on their other platforms. They aren't going to make any of the core control functions exclusively designed for Kinect. Unless they are making a console exclusive, it just doesn't make sense for them to spend the time adding significant features that can't be used cross-platform.

That's speculative. You could say the same thing about the Dualshock when it first came out and look how that changed the market. The only difference is the competition had analog control built-in too but look what Sony was able to get devs to do with standardized dual analog control. There are games that made use of it that couldn't be duplicated on other platforms without sacrificing functionality. Sony took a new control ability and started bundling it with their hardware to spur adoption. This is no different than what MS is doing. The only argument could be that having dual analog control is a more intuitive and natural extension of controller versus having voice and gesture command. Then again we're in a new age and this stuff is out there and only being made more relevant so MS felt it was time to start including it from the outset. I'll actually give MS credit on this; they're usually always late to the game with stuff but this is a case where they can take the lead and usher in new ways to control and interact with your games that will force the competition to catch up. Heck look at the new PSEye for the PS4. It's a Kinect clone. Sony's a bit more cautious with it but I bet should the Kinect do what MS wants it to do Sony won't hesitate at all to include it with their system.
post #6092 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennhunter View Post

If you eliminate Kinect you will see less developers use it. Which goes against what most people who are buying the XB1 want. If you don't want Kinect buy the PS4 what can be more difficult to understand. Why have two consoles from different companies that are the same? The only reason I can see is because it would bring the XB1 down to the level of the PS4, which would eliminate Sony fanboys insecurities.

not going to go back and forth with you (espically since you are obviously feeling emotional, sony fanboys insecurities? really).

1. i am buying a XB1, and 90% of my posts have been in the xbox section
2. i am buying the ps4, but there are games like alan wake and others that are going to exclusive to xbox that i would like to play.
3. the argument of "if kinect is not forced on people, it will suck" is flawed for two reasons
a. it has proven to not work in the past, i.e. sixaxis, etc..
b. or you are saying the kinect sucks so bad that unless it is forced on people it won't be a success.. there have been add ons after the fact (rumble on n64, etc..) that were great and successful so developers used it. MARKET dictates success, not forcing things down peoples throats, especially when people don't want it. If kinect is the best thing ever, then developers will use it, whether it is bundled or not. Basic economics proves that.
post #6093 of 14775
The Kinect is an integral part of their ad delivery system, so I wouldn't expect it to go anywhere.
post #6094 of 14775
all this Kinect talk has been discussed ad nauseam.

Kinect is a design choice they made that they feel will benefit the gamer and consumer. You as the consumer have the right to like it, accept it, or reject it.

It's like a lot of traditional drivers are against the idea of the LaFerrari being a hybrid car. A Ferrari hybrid? "Why force an electric engine into a pure sports car?" But yet they did it. If you don't like the LaFerrari, you don't have to buy it. It's as simple as that. It also had zero input from Pininfarina which bothered the traditionalists as well.

You don't go shopping for cars and demand changes and have petitions for a particular car's design. Whatever design choice they make is a choice they make. You buy another car if you so vehemently oppose it. If you are angry that the Corvette only comes with 2 doors, then don't get a Corvette.
post #6095 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanglo View Post

The Kinect is an integral part of their ad delivery system, so I wouldn't expect it to go anywhere.

you hit the nail on the head.. fully agree with that, it is not about gaming, MS has talked about how Kinect was designed with ads in mind.. that is what this comes down to and due to ad revenue they will not drop it, it doesn't have to do with "developers have to know it is every home". Shockingly, it all comes down to money!
post #6096 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

all this Kinect talk has been discussed ad nauseam.

Kinect is a design choice they made that they feel will benefit the gamer and consumer. You as the consumer have the right to like it, accept it, or reject it.

It's like a lot of traditional drivers are against the idea of the LaFerrari being a hybrid car. A Ferrari hybrid? "Why force an electric engine into a pure sports car?" But yet they did it. If you don't like the LaFerrari, you don't have to buy it. It's as simple as that. It also had zero input from Pininfarina which bothered the traditionalists as well.

You don't go shopping for cars and demand changes and have petitions for a particular car's design. Whatever design choice they make is a choice they make. You buy another car if you so vehemently oppose it. If you are angry that the Corvette only comes with 2 doors, then don't get a Corvette.

exactly, you can buy a normal ferrari, you can buy an impala, malibu, etc.. If you don't like a car there are other cars FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER that you can purchase... you argument is off, it is like ferrari announcing they are no longer going to produce any sort of traditional cars anymore and EVERY CAR WILL BE HYBRID, and the ferrari guys have no option to purchase a traditional ferrari anymore...
post #6097 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

exactly, you can buy a normal ferrari, you can buy an impala, malibu, etc.. If you don't like a car there are other cars FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER that you can purchase...

Car analogies are iffy. You can't buy a regular non-electric combo LaFerrari. You either buy that or buy a cheaper model. Guess what, did MS mention they make the 360 still? biggrin.gif

Sorry couldn't resist. tongue.gif
post #6098 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

exactly, you can buy a normal ferrari, you can buy an impala, malibu, etc.. If you don't like a car there are other cars FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER that you can purchase... you argument is off, it is like ferrari announcing they are no longer going to produce any sort of traditional cars anymore and EVERY CAR WILL BE HYBRID, and the ferrari guys have no option to purchase a traditional ferrari anymore...

You mean like how every tv manufacture no longer makes analog dispays?
post #6099 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

You mean like how every tv manufacture no longer makes analog dispays?

so you are saying in the future, every console by every manufacturer will feature kinect and there will be zero consoles without kinect, all games will not be able to be played without kinect? so the kinect is a big of game changer as digital tvs... wow..
post #6100 of 14775
Holy hell, down the rabbit hole we go again.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484000/the-official-xb1-kinect-less-option-petition-debate-thread
post #6101 of 14775
breaking news

Oculus Rift announced today they are shutting down production and canceling moving forward with their plans. A PR spokesperson said "Well we called MS, Sony and Nintendo and asked them to forcefully bundle the Oculus Rift in every console and they said they couldn't. Since the only way to get developers to implement your technology is if they know for sure it is attached to every console, there is no reason for us to move forward." Industry experts agree Micheal Patcher says "It is common knowledge in the gaming world that unless your technology is attached to a console with no other options it is worthless and no one will even take time to work with it, so Oculus Rift shutting down was really the only option". History has proven this to be true, everyone knows that if the power glove would have been sold with Nintendo's console, every console today would use the power glove, but since it was sold separately it failed. Oculus Rift is just another warning that before you decide to create new technology you better first be sure that it have a 100% attachment rate, otherwise it is just a waste of time.
www.ign.com/crazy
post #6102 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

The Kinect is the same as the Xbox One, not an accessory. You need to change your way of thinking. The One Kinect has to be connected but can be put on pause or turned off, same as the current Kinect. The fact that you choose to not accept that is irrelevant. The solution is to either voice your frustration and hope they change (not gonna happen), buy the system and accept it (seems doubtful in your case) or buy the PS4 as an alternative (what you seem to have chosen). Continuing to whine about it (not only you but others who continue to comment about it after more than fairly sharing their opinion on it) serves no other purpose other than to annoy those here who are actually interested in talking about the system in a somewhat constructive manner. This is not to squash your ability to discuss the merits of the Kinect (even though there is a thread for that) but rather to say either accept it and move on or not participate. Moreover since you said yourself that you plan on buying a PS4 instead I'm assuming we'll see you over in that thread more and less over here. smile.gif

Change the way I think? LOL.. You got it all wrong dude
post #6103 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Nonsense. MS needs to make the pitch that it is no longer an accessory, but part of the system. Part of that is a crystal clear vision, and the rest is a firm justification in the form of innovative and unique games and utility that makes the inclusion apparent for most consumers. THEY need to change minds, not ask minds to be changed.

They haven’t figured it out yet, which is why so many people are a still wondering why they’re being forced into it. “Trust us” only works if you’re selling a brand, and not a product. It seems (to me) they underestimated the brand allegiance of hardcore early adopter gamers. They’re not apple fanboys

smile.gif

Exactly! MS thought that if people are willing to buy 5 360's because it's a good multimedia device or rrod's then gamers get whatever they will give them. But as you nicely pointed out, hardcore gamers (early console adopters) are not like apple fanboys
post #6104 of 14775
I miss the good old days when we waited for a product to actually come out before we bitched about it. Thanks, internet! tongue.gif

The Xbox One platform comes with Kinect 2, not as a peripheral but as an integrated part of the new platform. Any comparison to the original Kinect peripheral is rendered moot. You can argue that design choice all day long, but it is what it is. If, after you've actually seen it in action or tried it, you still don't want it... You have other options from other companies. Options are good. But ultimately, having the new Kinect in your home... Not gonna kill ya' if you really want to play Xbox One exclusives. The rest is all pointless back-and-forth by petulant children who want to stamp their feet until they get their way... which is apparently how next-gen is going to be defined.

Aren't we over this crap yet?
post #6105 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennhunter View Post

This whole remove Kinect argument is like comparing a Tahoe to an Escalade. Both have the same internals but the features set them apart. If you don't want the Cadillac features buy the Chevy, no one cares. But don't deny the Cadillac people the chance to have the features they want just to make the Escalade exactly the same as the Tahoe.

Spending months in a thread for a console you don't want is ridiculous. It's summer go outside.....

Um. Isn't that an argument #1 that multiple SKUs is the way to go to please everyone and broaden marketshare?... GM offers both, right?

Just had to point that out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennhunter View Post

If you eliminate Kinect you will see less developers use it.

History says otherwise, but if you have a great example please share. It’s always been a justification for adding expensive extras that never end up working out and get swept under the rug. History does show us that. I go by the idea we shouldn’t believe the marketing speak, and ask to see proof now of these innovative benefits. Especially when, in their own words, it’s adding >20-25% to the cost of the console!

Thats money that could have been spent on a better GPU, or a new Dev studio, or software that would have made it a DVR reorder, ect.
Edited by TyrantII - 7/31/13 at 11:55am
post #6106 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

That's speculative......

No more so than arguing that removing the connection requirement will limit dev support.
post #6107 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Guess what, did MS mention they make the 360 still? biggrin.gif

Sorry couldn't resist. tongue.gif

Don't be sorry. That's MY next gen gaming setup: 1 PS4 and 1 Xbox 360. Smartest combo IMHO.
post #6108 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I miss the good old days when we waited for a product to actually come out before we bitched about it. Thanks, internet! tongue.gif

The Xbox One platform comes with Kinect 2, not as a peripheral but as an integrated part of the new platform. Any comparison to the original Kinect peripheral is rendered moot. You can argue that design choice all day long, but it is what it is. If, after you've actually seen it in action or tried it, you still don't want it... You have other options from other companies. Options are good. But ultimately, having the new Kinect in your home... Not gonna kill ya' if you really want to play Xbox One exclusives. The rest is all pointless back-and-forth by petulant children who want to stamp their feet until they get their way... which is apparently how next-gen is going to be defined.

Aren't we over this crap yet?

i know it's crazy how some people don't buy every single ipad that comes out just because they didn't like the last version, i mean with all the upgrades how can anyone really make a decision until they have purchased it for themselves? i mean if you didn't like the ipad 1,2,3 i am sure the upgrade on the ipad 4 you will love..
post #6109 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

No more so than arguing that removing the connection requirement will limit dev support.

Well I've never argued that removing it would limit dev support. If anything it wouldn't make any difference. I believe those that say it would are wrong. All I've ever said is it needs to be in the box.
post #6110 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

all this Kinect talk has been discussed ad nauseam.

Kinect is a design choice they made that they feel will benefit the gamer and consumer. You as the consumer have the right to like it, accept it, or reject it.

It's like a lot of traditional drivers are against the idea of the LaFerrari being a hybrid car. A Ferrari hybrid? "Why force an electric engine into a pure sports car?" But yet they did it. If you don't like the LaFerrari, you don't have to buy it. It's as simple as that. It also had zero input from Pininfarina which bothered the traditionalists as well.

You don't go shopping for cars and demand changes and have petitions for a particular car's design. Whatever design choice they make is a choice they make. You buy another car if you so vehemently oppose it. If you are angry that the Corvette only comes with 2 doors, then don't get a Corvette.

isn't the LaFerrari one of the fastest cars Ferrari has ever made? That's why you have a hybrid. A hybrid car can also be about performance. it doesn't just have to be about fuel savings.
post #6111 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

all this Kinect talk has been discussed ad nauseam.

Kinect is a design choice they made that they feel will benefit the gamer and consumer. You as the consumer have the right to like it, accept it, or reject it.

It's like a lot of traditional drivers are against the idea of the LaFerrari being a hybrid car. A Ferrari hybrid? "Why force an electric engine into a pure sports car?" But yet they did it. If you don't like the LaFerrari, you don't have to buy it. It's as simple as that. It also had zero input from Pininfarina which bothered the traditionalists as well.

You don't go shopping for cars and demand changes and have petitions for a particular car's design. Whatever design choice they make is a choice they make. You buy another car if you so vehemently oppose it. If you are angry that the Corvette only comes with 2 doors, then don't get a Corvette.

You have other options from Ferrari that can satisfy your driving needs and wants... With xbone not so much, so you are forced to like what they give you or go buy a competitor's toy (Lamborghini - PS4 or Ford - Wii) which MS wouldn't want you to do or get last generation 360 which is what MS suggested as well.

MS's decision to include Kinect is not to benefit the gamer and consumer. As Spanglo nicely pointed it out:
Quote:
The Kinect is an integral part of their ad delivery system

It's mostly for MS's own benefit
post #6112 of 14775
Lack of sixaxis adoption by developers isn't a very good rebuttal. You'd have to start with the premise that the two are equally (or similarly) useful for that argument to hold any water. Providing a 100% installed base for a feature doesn't guarantee that it will be developed for; the feature also has to be compelling. Will Kinect rise to that level or end up in the gimmick bin? I don't think anyone can answer that question, either. I think it is pretty obvious where it'll end up if it isn't required on all the consoles, though. And one need not look any further than the 360 Kinect, HD DVD add-on, Power Glove, R.O.B., etc. and on and on to find the answer.
post #6113 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

i know it's crazy how some people don't buy every single ipad that comes out just because they didn't like the last version, i mean with all the upgrades how can anyone really make a decision until they have purchased it for themselves? i mean if you didn't like the ipad 1,2,3 i am sure the upgrade on the ipad 4 you will love..
So... how many forums did you complain about Apple features on when they announced stuff you didn't like or had design decisions you didn't agree on? Or did you just not buy the thing instead of trying to play armchair hardware designer on the internet?
post #6114 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracat View Post

Don't be sorry. That's MY next gen gaming setup: 1 PS4 and 1 Xbox 360. Smartest combo IMHO.

Isn't the smartest combo an XBOne and a PS4?

Just like the best combo now is a PS3 and a 360.
post #6115 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post

Lack of sixaxis adoption by developers isn't a very good rebuttal. You'd have to start with the premise that the two are equally (or similarly) useful for that argument to hold any water. Providing a 100% installed base for a feature doesn't guarantee that it will be developed for; the feature also has to be compelling. Will Kinect rise to that level or end up in the gimmick bin? I don't think anyone can answer that question, either. I think it is pretty obvious where it'll end up if it isn't required on all the consoles, though. And one need not look any further than the 360 Kinect, HD DVD add-on, Power Glove, R.O.B., etc. and on and on to find the answer.

wtf did I just read??
post #6116 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Arghh I said I wouldn't talk about it anymore but fine lol. I'll disagree. They've already made the pitch that it's not an accessory by telling you it's not an accessory. If it was I think you would have seen them remove it when they did the drm reversal. It was telling that in all this one of the most hotly debated parts of the system is still there. It's not going away so why keep railing against it? Again, just because the Kinect was an accessory last generation doesn't mean it needs to be relegated to that status for all time. It's as much a part of the One as the One is a part of it. If they had integrated it into the actual hardware would that have been better? What people need to be upset about is the required connection. It's apparently a technical reason why at this point until stated otherwise so if someone wanted to rant they need to rant on why MS designed the One to require the Kinect in the first place. Again though that's old thinking because it's what it is: it isn't an accessory.

I will agree that they need to make the case for what it can do and delaying the one game that required it isn't good but really, it's so early I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Gamescon is coming up so let's see what they have to say first. I'm hoping for some good demos of it.

Agree there, and that argument you make is what’s lacking from MS themselves. And I especially agree with the bold part and don’t think they need to remove it (just allow it to be disconnected). After all, if the flimsy argument that 100% inclusion means developers would use it, allowing it to be turned off doesn’t really effect that.

I just think they’re already swimming upstream because kinect 1 WAS an assessory. One that had similar claims, was pretty widely adopted on those claims, and then pretty widely panned as not living up to them from the core gamers. Many people have already been through the song and dance this gen, so it’s no surprise they’re even more skeptical of the benefits that aren’t readily apparent yet. Many people just want to see a justification now, and not some loose thought of something, at some point not yet defined. Especially due to the costs and privacy associated with it.

That’s fine that a core group will take their word on it. But whether people like it or not there’s a much larger group with legitimate concerns that are just waiting for their questions to be answered. Gamecon would be perfect time to do so, and hopefully we get lots and lots of details.
Edited by TyrantII - 7/31/13 at 12:15pm
post #6117 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I miss the good old days when we waited for a product to actually come out before we bitched about it. Thanks, internet! tongue.gif

The Xbox One platform comes with Kinect 2, not as a peripheral but as an integrated part of the new platform. Any comparison to the original Kinect peripheral is rendered moot. You can argue that design choice all day long, but it is what it is. If, after you've actually seen it in action or tried it, you still don't want it... You have other options from other companies. Options are good. But ultimately, having the new Kinect in your home... Not gonna kill ya' if you really want to play Xbox One exclusives. The rest is all pointless back-and-forth by petulant children who want to stamp their feet until they get their way... which is apparently how next-gen is going to be defined.

Aren't we over this crap yet?

You must've not been here for PS360 "debates".. It was way way worse then this, only the hate was towards PS3 back then
post #6118 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

So... how many forums did you complain about Apple features on when they announced stuff you didn't like or had design decisions you didn't agree on? Or did you just not buy the thing instead of trying to play armchair hardware designer on the internet?

not one, have zero interest in apple products...how is it any different than you playing armchair hardware designer and saying it is a good decision.. you are no different..
post #6119 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

I miss the good old days when we waited for a product to actually come out before we bitched about it. Thanks, internet! tongue.gif

The Xbox One platform comes with Kinect 2, not as a peripheral but as an integrated part of the new platform. Any comparison to the original Kinect peripheral is rendered moot. You can argue that design choice all day long, but it is what it is. If, after you've actually seen it in action or tried it, you still don't want it... You have other options from other companies. Options are good. But ultimately, having the new Kinect in your home... Not gonna kill ya' if you really want to play Xbox One exclusives. The rest is all pointless back-and-forth by petulant children who want to stamp their feet until they get their way... which is apparently how next-gen is going to be defined.

Aren't we over this crap yet?

You're just feeding the fire with posts like this...
post #6120 of 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazylik View Post

wtf did I just read??

Nintedno should have included ROB in every system, just like Kinect 2.0.

This is why we don't have Gyromite XII today frown.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Xbox Area
AVS › AVS Forum › Gaming & Content Streaming › Home Theater Gaming › Xbox Area › The Official Xbox One thread...