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Raleigh, NC - HDTV - Page 390

post #11671 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by scsiraid View Post

WRAZ is at full power. They basically did nothing on Friday....

50 and 5 are coming in great here in Apex. 22 and 28 are very good, 17 is good... 11 is a bit marginal and 4 is unwatchable.

OK...looks like a tweak of the antenna is in order. On the good side, I now get channel 2 out of Greensboro.
post #11672 of 15283
WUNP actually should have gone up in both height and power yesterday.

The issue there might be interference from WFPX-DT in Fayetteville...

- Trip
post #11673 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

WUNP actually should have gone up in both height and power yesterday.

The issue there might be interference from WFPX-DT in Fayetteville...

- Trip

Where is WUNP located?
post #11674 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCsoftball7 View Post

OK...looks like a tweak of the antenna is in order. On the good side, I now get channel 2 out of Greensboro.

My attic mount 4221HD isnt gonna cut it on VHF 11. Ill either have to go to a 4228HD or just break down and use 211 off of TWC.... no sport in that though.... 17 should be fine once they get the rest of the transmitter online. Has 17 given any indication of when that should happen?
post #11675 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjvrieze View Post

Who made the amp? How old is the coax (or is it twin lead, "two side by side wires") Are you aimed at the Raleigh towers at 200 degrees?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David-the-dtv-ma View Post

If you have coax & do not know how old it is, it may be weaking the UHF signals.

My antenna is RadioShack VU-190XR
My preamp is Philips Magnavox PM61112
I can't verify 200degrees with a compass, but I am receiving ALL the other Raleigh stations with no troubles; so that tells me the antenna aim is OK. I have coaxial and it is maybe 12-15 years old. Please don't fixate on this as the obvious problem before considering my previous posts about my TVFool chart and all the other stations I am successfully receiving, and the gain/loss coverage chart published by the station in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jspENC View Post

He probably needs an antenna with more low UHF gain. Those old antennas were tuned for the upper channels on UHF a lot more than the newer models, and UHF only antennas. On channel 17, most combo antennas have very little gain, like about 5 dbs.

Short of installing a new antenna, how can I test this theory of "insufficient gain on low UHF"? And what channels are considered low UHF? I'm getting stations on (real) 15, 27, 28; are those low?
I did manage to call the WNCN-17 station's DTV hotline; not sure how much was hard facts vs. canned answers: "Moderate signal...we might be having some trouble in that area...we're broadcasting at reduced power...the engineers will be tweaking things over the next 6 months...rescan, rescan, rescan." I'm just gonna sit tight for now. No need for me to muck around with antennas and cables and amps and whatnot when the station's setup isn't yet finalized. I'll try to contact an engineer at the station next week.
post #11676 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja1 View Post

My antenna is RadioShack VU-190XR
My preamp is Philips Magnavox PM61112


Short of installing a new antenna, how can I test this theory of "insufficient gain on low UHF"? And what channels are considered low UHF? I'm getting stations on (real) 15, 27, 28; are those low?
I did manage to call the WNCN-17 station's DTV hotline; not sure how much was hard facts vs. canned answers: "Moderate signal...we might be having some trouble in that area...we're broadcasting at reduced power...the engineers will be tweaking things over the next 6 months...rescan, rescan, rescan." I'm just gonna sit tight for now. No need for me to muck around with antennas and cables and amps and whatnot when the station's setup isn't yet finalized. I'll try to contact an engineer at the station next week.

Go to this site http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html and look at the graphs of combo antenna's VS UHF only. Notice how the combo's start very low on the graph and get much higher in gain toward channel 40-60. This is what I am referring to. Notice how most UHF only bow ties start high and stay high up to channel 50. This is what you want if you are having signal problems with certain frequencies is an antenna that has high gain on that channel. You start by getting the good antenna before you try to amplify something that isn't getting captured to start with.

I was getting WRAL WNCN very well last night, but having problems with WRAZ. Weird... Must have been co channel interference.
post #11677 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCsoftball7 View Post

Where is WUNP located?

Draw a line between the Garner towers and Roanoke Rapids. About 15 miles away from Roanoke Rapids along that line is where you'll find WUNP.

- Trip
post #11678 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jspENC View Post

Notice how the combo's start very low on the graph and get much higher in gain toward channel 40-60. This is what I am referring to. Notice how most UHF only bow ties start high and stay high up to channel 50. This is what you want if you are having signal problems with certain frequencies is an antenna that has high gain on that channel. You start by getting the good antenna before you try to amplify something that isn't getting captured to start with.

That's a very good, informative link. Thanks. I understand your point. But I'm not sure if the root problem is my "weak" antenna or if the root problem is something funky WNCN-17 is doing (or not doing) with their transmission. Even the best of the best antenna can't receive a nonexistent signal. I'm not in a hurry to gamble $$ to prove the station is the cause vs. my antenna is the cause of my trouble. If there are some experiments/tests I could do to help narrow things down, I will try it.
post #11679 of 15283
Was WUNC having major problems this afternoon? I missed a recording at 2pm, and according to SageTV's logs, it couldn't get a lock on the signal:

Sat 6/13 14:00:07.313 DVB: Channel:25-4-1.
Sat 6/13 14:00:07.578 DVB couldn't get LOCK on try 0.
Sat 6/13 14:00:07.829 DVB couldn't get LOCK on try 1.
<...>

A later recording at 3pm seems fine, and live tv seems fine now..

Drew
post #11680 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldmccall View Post

I have an HDHomerun connected to Time Warner Cable in Raleigh and it does a great job of picking up the local HD channels. I only get TWCs cable channels 1-24, though. I was really hoping to get all the way up to 78. While this is a great tuner, you may be disappointed if you are paying for the "basic" package, hoping to watch CNN, for instance, on your HTPC. I'm hoping that TWC will convert these channels over to unencrypted QAM at some point as they shed analog channels.

TWC says "NO WAY" we need the money! The said some are cutting the cable off. They are not getting any of the simulas money so the only wat to get it is to increase the rates on those extra channels. They want to stop those trying to sneek those non OTA channels from going to those with the basic package. Thus the only way for you to get thtem is to pay for them.
post #11681 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldmccall View Post

I have an HDHomerun connected to Time Warner Cable in Raleigh and it does a great job of picking up the local HD channels. I only get TWCs cable channels 1-24, though. I was really hoping to get all the way up to 78. While this is a great tuner, you may be disappointed if you are paying for the "basic" package, hoping to watch CNN, for instance, on your HTPC. I'm hoping that TWC will convert these channels over to unencrypted QAM at some point as they shed analog channels.

I am happy that the HDHomerun is picking up all the QAMs. During the summer, we cut off all cable except for the very basics. I think its now called "broadcast cable." (Isn't that an oxymoron?) And then we get the mlb.tv package, which makes great use of our htpc. I am not expecting to get channels above 24 through the htpc. All I want to be able to do is get those channels (paid for of course), and use my htpc to record them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roybishop View Post

I record programs on my PC and play them back in HD to LinkSys Media Extenders in my kitchen and bedroom.

Do you pipe those recordings to the extenders over wireless? If so, what kind of router do you have and does it work well? (Thanks for the help.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

You should be here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26

Plenty of user feedback in that subforum.

Thanks. I have been looking over there too. But I am also interested to hear people's feedback on how well they get TWC's QAM stations through whatever tuners they are using.
post #11682 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjvrieze View Post

QAM, is 100% digital, just like ATSC. Wither encrypted or not, QAM is bits, not analog modulation.

HDHR Site also has a channel look up based on your zip code, take and look and see what is reported in your area, for clear QAM....

Alright, now I'm confused again. If QAM is all digital, then is TWC's "analog cable" not QAM? TWC cable products and prices> If not, what is it and will I not be able to tune it in using an hdhomerun (which doesn't have an NTSC tuner)? Can I tune it in with the Hauppauge 2250 (with an NTSC tuner)?

Marc

(I know I should just set up an antenna and get OTA, but there are reasons I really can't do that right now.)
post #11683 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdb77a View Post

Alright, now I'm confused again. If QAM is all digital, then is TWC's "analog cable" not QAM? TWC cable products and prices> If not, what is it and will I not be able to tune it in using an hdhomerun (which doesn't have an NTSC tuner)? Can I tune it in with the Hauppauge 2250 (with an NTSC tuner)?

Marc

(I know I should just set up an antenna and get OTA, but there are reasons I really can't do that right now.)

I do understand that some stations had the analog top mounted & then added the digital as a side mount antenna. Some stations that were staying with the orginal channel thus when the analog was shut down they put the digital transmitter on the top mounted antenna. Once this is done the digital signal may get stronger. But I think most would have done the switch back the the first channel the station was assigned by 12-13-09. But those that wanted to keep the second channel [usually a uhf] & give up their first assinged channel [like VHF low 2 - 6 ] as a unused channel back to the FCC. They may remove the analog VHF low band antenna off the top & install the UHF on the top. That being the case you will get a much stronger signal because of the to is higher but also the pattern is much better than a side mount.

All that said you may get a better signal later this summer.

If you can not get any thing with a $3.00 bow tie & rabbit ears then I would go wiht the cheapest pk you can get from the cable. Thus when you are ready to use an antenna you will be adjusted to having lived with out 200 channels from the tv cable. That way you will be happy with what you get of the antenna
post #11684 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdb77a View Post

Alright, now I'm confused again. If QAM is all digital, then is TWC's "analog cable" not QAM? TWC cable products and prices> If not, what is it and will I not be able to tune it in using an hdhomerun (which doesn't have an NTSC tuner)? Can I tune it in with the Hauppauge 2250 (with an NTSC tuner)?

...

Right, analog cable is not QAM.

Yes, a Hauppauge 2250 lets you tune either 2 clear QAM digital cable, 2 analog cable, or one of each type of channel at the same time. What you cannot mix together though is ATSC OTA digital with anything else because the 2250 has only one input (well, it has a second, but it is only for FM radio).
post #11685 of 15283
@David-the-dtv-ma and @vidiot1985,

Thanks a lot for your help. Seems like if I can't solve this issue of why analog feeds look so very lousy through my htpc, I may have to look into antenna options again.

mb
post #11686 of 15283
Great news!

Quote:
- SPECIAL NOTICE -

As part of the final transition from analog to digital broadcast television required by the Federal Communications Commission, WUNC-TV – Chapel Hill permanently turned off its channel 4 transmitter located in northern Chatham county at midnight on June 12, 2009.

WUNC-TV also changed it digital broadcast transmission from channel 59 to channel 25. This requires that tuners in digital TV sets and converter boxes be re-scanned to allow them to acquire WUNC-TV (digital) on its new operating channel. It will still appear as 4.1, 4.2, etc when tuning TV sets and converter boxes.

During this transitory stage WUNC-TV digital channel 25 is operating at significantly lower power than the previous channel 59.

Equipment is currently being moved from other transmitter sites to allow the final operating power of WUNC-TV to be greater than it previously was. Antenna and transmission work is also being done on the WUNC-TV tower that will improve transmission power and antenna coverage.

An interim improvement in signal strength is expected within the week with full operating power being achieved by late summer.

Thank you for your patience as we address this problem.

http://www.unctv.org/
post #11687 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Because they're removing the analog 4 antenna to put up the 25 antenna.

WRAL's auxiliary setup for channel 53 is on an antenna that can be used for channel 48 without too many adjustments. Any money UNC had spent on an alternate channel 4 or 59 antenna would have been thrown away, since neither would be reusable for channel 25. This setup gives them an alternate channel 25 antenna to use if the future primary one fails for some reason.

- Trip

I wasn't questioning what they were doing... just when they are doing it. They are having to spend the money anyway, so it seems to me it would have made more sense to already have been working on it so that after the transition they would be done... instead of doing all the work after the transition.

That's all I was saying. The timing seems odd, since they had to have known they would be doing this for a year or two now. Seems like they could have been in temporary-makeshift mode with the channel 4 antenna for the past 6 months-year waiting for the cutoff instead of still having all that work ahead of them now.
post #11688 of 15283
I think they're planning to have the antenna replaced really soon. If my contact down there hadn't retired, I'd call him and ask what's going on. Just being on a top-mounted antenna (500 feet higher up, to be more specific) will help a lot. Then they're having the channel 59 transmitter retuned to channel 25, which will take a while because of the huge difference in frequency.

They're trying to recycle as much equipment as possible, so they couldn't really do a whole lot more beyond what they did. They bought a new transmitter for WUNU I think, and are moving its old channel 25 transmitter up to Chapel Hill in the near future, thus the extremely low power right now.

- Trip
post #11689 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

I wasn't questioning what they were doing... just when they are doing it. They are having to spend the money anyway, so it seems to me it would have made more sense to already have been working on it so that after the transition they would be done... instead of doing all the work after the transition.

That's all I was saying. The timing seems odd, since they had to have known they would be doing this for a year or two now. Seems like they could have been in temporary-makeshift mode with the channel 4 antenna for the past 6 months-year waiting for the cutoff instead of still having all that work ahead of them now.

I think what was behind that is, the ch4 antenna was going to be canned. So they did not want to buy a 2nd ch 4 antenna to also be junk after 6-13-09. But buying a 2nd ch 25 uhf antenna would be a spare to install in case of antenna failure. So while they ar running on the temp side mount antenna they take the ch 4 off the top & install the ch 25. Then they dissconect the side mount antenna & connect the top mount antenna to the transmitter. Some make keep the side mount as a spare ready to go. Others would take it down & put it in the ware house with the spare tubes & transmitter parts.

But if they already had a spare ch 4 antenna [as some stations do] they could had mounted the spare ch 4 on the side a year ago to clear the top for the ch 25 antenna. It just comes down to money. They went with the lowest cost route. Maybe not the least effect on the service thou. But there is not a lot of spare money flowing now so I can understand their reason.
post #11690 of 15283
Thinking through the possible scenarios... If money was the driving factor, then it probably does make more sense. I know donations have been down (presumably true for most PBS stations around the country)...so if they didn't already have spare equipment, I could see not buying it to accomplish the temp-move of the ch4 antenna.

That said, I hope they get up and running better soon. I'm on Dish, so for the moment I'm unable to get channel 4 in HD and have decided it's not worth further tweaking if they will be improving things soon.
post #11691 of 15283
I did read somewhere that UNC is putting a translator at GAG (Garner Antenna Garden). Why didn't they get that done before 6-12 ???????
post #11692 of 15283
Because the FCC didn't approve it.

- Trip
post #11693 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Because the FCC didn't approve it.

- Trip


Because ???
post #11694 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by posg View Post

Because ???

Because the FCC is slow to react?

They didn't say no, but they have yet to say "yes."

- Trip
post #11695 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Because the FCC is slow to react?

They didn't say no, but they have yet to say "yes."

- Trip

Poor planning on someone's part. Raleigh is for all practical purposes without a usable OTA PBS.
post #11696 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by posg View Post

I did read somewhere that UNC is putting a translator at GAG (Garner Antenna Garden). Why didn't they get that done before 6-12 ???????

Will that be on a different "real channel" frequency? In Cary I get WUNC-DT fairly well off the back of my CM4228 pointed at Garner. I won't get two interfering signals will I?
post #11697 of 15283
No, they want to put a channel 30 translator in Garner, while the main signal will be on channel 25.

Both will map to 4-1 though. You'll just pick whichever is stronger and delete the other from your lineup.

- Trip
post #11698 of 15283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

No, they want to put a channel 30 translator in Garner, while the main signal will be on channel 25.

Both will map to 4-1 though. You'll just pick whichever is stronger and delete the other from your lineup.

- Trip

Which "4.1" is which ?????
post #11699 of 15283
I haven't been able to receive WTVD ABC 11 since the transition. Apparently this is a problem all across the Triangle.

This is from the ABC 11 WTVD website:

ABC11 will be working with the Federal Communications Commission to increase our power so that we may reach every possible viewer.

The station is committed to reaching out to viewers and helping them through the DTV transition.

Message from ABC11 Chief Engineer Curtis Meredith:

On Friday at 12:30 p.m., WTVD ABC11 switched from channel 52 (UHF) to channel 11 (VHF) as assigned by the FCC.
This change also required us to substantially reduce our power level. Both of these factors have made it difficult for many viewers to receive a viewable signal.
This is especially a problem with indoor antennas. A UHF-only antenna probably won't work for channel 11 anymore. Since WTVD is the only station in this area assigned to a VHF channel, you may be able to receive all local stations but us.
I assume that you have already rescanned your TV or converter box.
If you have an all-channel indoor antenna, try to re-orient it or raise it to a higher level. If this doesn't work then you'll probably need an attic or outdoor antenna. The most important factor is that the antenna be designed for VHF channels as well as UHF channels.
All of us at ABC11 are very concerned about this loss of coverage and we are working to find a solution. At this time we're not sure what that solution will be or when it will happen but we are meeting with federal officials on Monday to work out an acceptable plan.
post #11700 of 15283
I hope that WTVD can get a power increase, even if I have got them back now. More power would make it easier.
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