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The Official Kinect Thread for Xbox One - Page 2

post #31 of 354
I wanted Ryse when it was a 360 game and Kinect only. It's looking better and better after reading the articles. However, when I attended the MS event, it seemed like it was 30 fps and had occasional hiccups in framerate. I'm hoping this is smoothed out by release date. And I'm wondering how much of the Kinect is lost from the original game design.

I was excited when Crimson Dragon was coming to the 360 with Child of Eden Kinect controls but from the recent previews, it seems most of the Kinect controls were stripped away. They should've left it like Child of Eden with 2 sets of controls because CoE controls were excellent!
post #32 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

I wanted Ryse when it was a 360 game and Kinect only. It's looking better and better after reading the articles. However, when I attended the MS event, it seemed like it was 30 fps and had occasional hiccups in framerate. I'm hoping this is smoothed out by release date. And I'm wondering how much of the Kinect is lost from the original game design.

I was excited when Crimson Dragon was coming to the 360 with Child of Eden Kinect controls but from the recent previews, it seems most of the Kinect controls were stripped away. They should've left it like Child of Eden with 2 sets of controls because CoE controls were excellent!
Crimson Dragon was designed for Kinect and with the new Kinect, should be even better than the CoE controls (which I agree worked VERY well). They added the controller-based stuff in afterwards as an option. There was a story about it this morning (but please don't ask me to find the link... My browser history is crazy full right now!).
post #33 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

How can you not be impressed with it based on what it can do? It remains to be seen how practical and accurate it is in use but overall, it is impressive technology.

I'm not impressed because I've been gaming since NES and I don't do motion control. I'm not impressed because the *******s are telling me it has to be plugged in whether I plan to use it or not. I'm not impressed because rail shooters are still better with the NES Zapper than with PS Move, Wii, etc!
post #34 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

Crimson Dragon was designed for Kinect and with the new Kinect, should be even better than the CoE controls (which I agree worked VERY well). They added the controller-based stuff in afterwards as an option. There was a story about it this morning (but please don't ask me to find the link... My browser history is crazy full right now!).

it SHOULD BE. I hope this is the case but what went from an automatic buy went to a maybe buy because I really liked the Kinect games for the first gen overall even with the warts. the biggest wart being lack of multiplayer. what I'm thinking is that they're downplaying the Kinect aspects for E3 because they don't want the anti-Kinect people saying, "oh, it's just kinect games again". and it's not a proper environment for a Kinect anyway. it's so loud there. the lighting is crazy going from pitch dark to uber bright. people are everywhere which can be challenging for a device that's attempting to decide who to track.

but getting into the moment during a ping pong game in Kinect Sports with my online friends. that was classic.

my big test (and I bet a big test for a ton of people) is the couch test which the first Kinect failed at. If you sink into a couch, will you disappear this time? now, the change in technology may help (from structured 3D light to time of flight tech), but the proof is in the pudding. when I played the chair Kinect games (Fable the Journey, Steel Battalion, etc.), I basically ensured it'd work by sitting in a chair with no arms no high back to hide my head. and I sat forward in the chair so I wouldn't blend into the chair. we'll see how Kinect 2.0 handles the chair this time.
post #35 of 354
http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/11/4420610/xbox-one-kinect-trades-gimmicks-for-true-interactivity

Don't flinch: the new Kinect could be the end of motion gimmicks

The first version of Kinect promised to completely change how we play games. Instead of sitting on our couch with a controller, we'd be running, dancing, throwing, and shouting our way through level after level. The new version of Kinect, the one that will ship with every Xbox One console in November, initially seemed like more of the same: more data, more accuracy, to the same end. But as we talk to game developers at E3 2013, it's quickly becoming clear that the next generation of motion gaming isn't about making us stand in front of our TVs and play. It's about watching us play, as we've always played, and reacting in kind.

Take Ryse: Son of Rome, for instance. The game is played with your controller — you don't use your arm to swing your sword, or pull an arrow out of your eye. Instead, you shout "archers!" to summon some medieval aerial support, and beckon your men forward with your arm. You do all this from your couch: every part of Ryse works with your controller, parts of it are just better with Kinect.

I asked the Ryse producers and directors why the game is coming out now, fully two years after it was first announced at E3 2011. Their answer related to the Kinect's development. "It was announced as a Kinect game, where you would just stand in front of the TV and play like that. But as the Crytek team started developing the game and story further, they realized that the setting, the story, the things you want to do just better fit a third-person combat game." The new Kinect, they said, allowed them to create that kind of game and still have the fun, interactive features Kinect offers.

In a more futuristic demo called "Reflex," Xbox reps took the idea even further. As we walked through a Tron-like level, we could raise the controller over our face to activate our shield, touch our temple to activate our X-ray vision, and duck out of the way to, well, duck out of the way. These are activities that make sense, that we might even reflexively do anyway while we game — I know I lean a little every time I try to dodge a bullet in Halo. With an always-on, always-watching, always-listening Kinect, our surroundings and our actions become part of the game.

"We've exposed these reflexes to developers in a way that thinks of your spine as a thumbstick," I was told during the Xbox hardware demonstration. "We're able to bring natural, intuitive, instinctive Kinect input in a way that's thrilling even to the most hardcore gamers." Kinect may have more capabilities than ever, and more features than any developer seems to be currently using, but as we see developers continue to roll out their games in the coming months, Xbox One Kinect games will win big by thinking small.

Don't make me stand in front of my TV and wave my arms like a lunatic — know when I flinch, and do something about it.
post #36 of 354
the hacking crowd looks excited... and it reveals a tidbit that didn't make sense way back when the original Kinect came out. at the time it was reported that Microsoft had bought Canesta but they ended up using PrimeSense's technology. so it was assumed that Canesta was purchased for patent protection. but perhaps it was not used because it wasn't quite ready yet at consumer level prices...

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/hbrobotics/MLTfwYFgXVI

Nathan Monson May 22

Hi guys,

A while back, Microsoft purchased Canesta, inventors of a very promising low-cost Time-of-Flight depth camera. I have been dying for this technology to come out, since it lacks the weaknesses of structured-light/Kinect sensors.

Here is a high-rest picture of the Kinect One internals:


It is clear it is using ToF technology. The projector is gone, and now only an IR flash is used. As before, there is a second camera video nearby for 1080p color.

Compared to the structured-light Kinect, the new ToF Kinect is higher res, higher precision, and does not suffer from shadowing effects:



The field of view is also larger, at 60 degrees.

I don't want this to turn into an advertisement, but I am genuinely excited by the possibilities of hacking this sensor into low cost robots. USB 3.0 is required. Apparently, the depth info is sent uncompressed at 30FPS along with a 1920x1080 color image. Microsoft claims it will be sold separately as a Windows accessory, so drivers will exist. As before, there is a microphone array, too.

Get your USB analyzers ready... Hopefully we will have it reverse engineered before the end of the year!

Nathan

another article on time of flight:
http://blog.falcondai.com/2013/05/the-new-time-of-flight-kinect-sensor.html

The New (Time-of-Flight) Kinect Sensor and Speculations

In the official Xbox One release yesterday (2013/5/21), it is mentioned that the new Kinect sensor employs a time-of-flight camera to acquire depth image instead of using the Light Coding technology from the original Kinect (which is patented by PrimeSense). It amazed me because I heard about how expensive a time-of-flight camera is: SwissRanger 4000 (a popular choice in academic research) with 176x144 resolution at 50 FPS costs more than $4,000. So I started digging and found how ignorant I am to the recent development of the field.

To understand how time-of-flight (or TOF) cameras acquire a depth image, its Wikipedia page is a good place to start. The basic idea is that you need to measure the round-trip time (RTT) of the photons that are emitted by the sensor and reflected back. Given the speed of light being 3x10^8 m/s, the sensor would need the precision to measure 6 picoseconds difference in time to measure 1 millimeter difference in depth (1mm is the best precision the original Kinect could achieve). This high precision requirement, i.e. high frequency RF, makes the chip and circuitry design more challenging and costly. The surprise for me is that 3DV Systems (and Canesta) seemed to have found a way to lower the cost drastically and planned to release a RGB-Depth sensor, called ZCam, for under $100. (But before 3DV could sell it, the company was bought by Microsoft.)



Thus the IR sensor and RGB camera are still separated (also confirmed by the different field of view when switching between the two streams in the WIRED video (see time mark 5:27):. If the sensor can capture both RGB and IR simultaneously from the same sensor (or just switching quickly between the two at 60Hz/60Hz or 30Hz/30Hz), texture mapping alignment in KinectFusion type of application would get better.

In case you wonder, the reason why I argue that the IR illuminator is the big rectangular block to the left of the IR sensor (instead of the other way around) is because the active IR image shows shadow due to IR illumination on the left but the screen we see is a mirror image (see time mark 5:08). This shows that the IR illuminator is on the left to the IR sensor (which by the way should have a lens like the exposed RGB camera).

Comparing to the original Kinect, the most noticeable improvement of the new Kinect is the almost shadow-less depth image (see time mark 0:37) due to the closer placement of IR sensor and illuminator. In fact, TOF technology allows for more flexibility with the illumination placement and design (thus better depth image). For comparison, google "kinect shadow" and take a look at the images.

The trail that led to this new design of Kinect sensor is clear in retrospect. Microsoft acquired 3DV Systems and Canesta a few years ago which have both worked on TOF technologies extensively. The acquisitions obviously clear up some patent concerns for Microsoft (Bye, PrimeSense...). The down side is that we, as developers and consumers, might not see a more open-source friendly alternative with similar technology anytime soon. And we would have to rely on Microsoft to release good SDK and live with Windows when using the new Kinect in commercial applications.
and another article on the time of flight:


http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156436-kinect-for-the-xbox-one-sensor-revolution-or-marketing-hype

Kinect for the Xbox One: Sensor revolution or marketing hype?

Improved camera and personalized voice recognition

One clear step up in the new Kinect is the 1080p camera, with better resolution and a 60% wider field of view. This will allow the camera to cover a wider range of simultaneous player positions. The new Kinect also helps the Xbox One quickly and (at least in the demo) accurately respond to voice commands. If it works as well in real living rooms, it’ll be a huge improvement over existing user interfaces. A big piece of making that possible is the recognition of individual voices, which should make an unprecedented degree of personalization possible.

Time of flight replaces structured light

Rather than the coded-light patterns used by the original Kinect, the new version is reported to use direct time of flight (TOF) measurement. TOF sensors are essentially small infrared “radars” that instantly create a depth map. However, TOF sensor sites normally take up room that could otherwise be used for traditional visible-light sensing — also crucial for gaming. Samsung’s integrated Visible+TOF sensor, for example, has a fill factor under 50%, and that’s with a relatively low VGA resolution for its depth map. If Microsoft is truly offering high accuracy depth sensing in its new Kinect, it is either using a completely separate sensor, sacrificing quite a bit of the camera’s potential, or has truly made a breakthrough in fundamental CMOS sensor technology.

Microsoft hasn’t revealed much about the specifics of its proprietary TOF solution, but does say that the sensor (possibly including the visible light camera) gathers about two gigabits of data — not the same as the 2GB that some other tech sites have reported. Assuming the TOF sensor captures data at 30fps (matching the camera), that’s about 60 million bits per frame. If it records depth in the same 11-bits per sample precision as the original Kinect, that would more than match the throughput needed for a 1080p resolution TOF sensor. If so, it is indeed much higher resolution than the 640×480 depth map of the current Kinect. I suspect the depth precision has also been improved, perhaps to 12-bits or even 16-bits per sample — to help allow the detection of subtle motions in the Xbox One.
Edited by onlysublime - 6/12/13 at 5:39pm
post #37 of 354
last tech of the day:

comparison between structured light (used in the Xbox 360 Kinect) and time of flight technology (used in Kinect 2.0):
note that the exact implementation of time of flight has not yet been revealed for Kinect 2.0 so the following applies to time of flight in general:

http://campar.in.tum.de/twiki/pub/Chair/TeachingSs11Kinect/2011-DSensors_LabCourse_Kinect.pdf











depth map on Kinect 2.0:


structured light implementation on Kinect 1.0








post #38 of 354
Thread Starter 
Wow thanks for the info Onlysublime.
post #39 of 354
this is a great time if you're a tech enthusiast! biggrin.gif
post #40 of 354
I love the promise of the tech but if I am holding my controller with both hands, when do I have time to throw my arm up and wave at the archers? It seems like they will need to build pauses into the game to use it, which them makes it a gimmick. The voice part I get although I do not like to yell when gaming due to others in the house (unless I am losing badly in BF3 TDM...) biggrin.gif
post #41 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

I love the promise of the tech but if I am holding my controller with both hands, when do I have time to throw my arm up and wave at the archers? It seems like they will need to build pauses into the game to use it, which them makes it a gimmick. The voice part I get although I do not like to yell when gaming due to others in the house (unless I am losing badly in BF3 TDM...) biggrin.gif

Do you never scratch your nose when you game? ... or grab a handful of Doritos or something. I think picking your hand up for a second to summon the archers isn't that big a deal. Yeah sure you can't do it if your in the middle of hacking 10 guys to death, but then I guess if you were a real Roman soldier hacking 10 guys to death you would have to wait to summon the archers with a hand signal too.

Now, the other demo they talk about with raising your controller to raise your shield seems uncomfortable. Would you have to hold your hands unnaturally high the entire time to keep the shield up? So, yeah they really need to think the gestures through.
post #42 of 354
http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/12/4424250/sony-forfeit-playstation-eye-no-bundled-with-ps4

Yup... Pretty much what I've been saying. So glad Microsoft made it a requirement.
post #43 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/12/4424250/sony-forfeit-playstation-eye-no-bundled-with-ps4

Yup... Pretty much what I've been saying. So glad Microsoft made it a requirement.

EXCUSE ME? Not everyone wants motion gaming. In fact, plenty of people want nothing to do with it, hence the reason people opted for Xbox over Wii last gen. Forcing people to pay more for the console because it's included, is NOT a good thing. Not to mention expecting people to hook up something they don't want to use and may not have space to waste on. Why the hell should the rest of us be force to have one just because YOU like motion control?
post #44 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post

EXCUSE ME? Not everyone wants motion gaming. In fact, plenty of people want nothing to do with it, hence the reason people opted for Xbox over Wii last gen.

That's why I bought an Xbox instead of a Wii. It had nothing to do with Xbox Live, Party Chat across games, better graphics, better games, a great controller. rolleyes.gif
post #45 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post

EXCUSE ME? Not everyone wants motion gaming. In fact, plenty of people want nothing to do with it, hence the reason people opted for Xbox over Wii last gen. Forcing people to pay more for the console because it's included, is NOT a good thing. Not to mention expecting people to hook up something they don't want to use and may not have space to waste on. Why the hell should the rest of us be force to have one just because YOU like motion control?
You're not FORCED to do anything. This is a product they have for sale... No one's waterboarding you over it.

By making it a ubiquitous part of the platform, they're ensuring that it is available to the developers across the board, meaning you will see innovation in motion/voice control that we don't see now. Sony chooses not to make it ubiquitous... which means they might as well not bother with a camera at all, since there will not be a big enough install base for anyone to make games for it. And while that may be okay with you, it stifles innovation in game controls.

Look at what the two companies showed for their respective cameras at E3. Microsoft showed voice commands, gesture controls, controller tracking via IR, games that let zombies hear your voice for when you want to distract them, let you raise a shield by lifting your controller up, let you turn on night vision by touching your temple, let you dodge by leaning left or right in your chair, let you point to an area to launch artillery there... All without moving from your seat. Sony? They showed people using a controller to vacuum up cute bunnies. Not a single game that actually makes use of the camera... Just a glorified tech demo. Basically, no reason whatsoever for the PSEye to even exist. And if their past history with Eyetoy, etc. is any indication, expect the same neglect of it this generation.

If you're fine with that, awesome... You're going to buy a PS4, so why are you lurking the Kinect thread? Personally, I want games to EVOLVE. Making new control schemes ubiquitous (yet still optional to use) gives developers a guaranteed user base to make those innovations for. That's next-gen to me... not just shinier versions of the same old crap.
post #46 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

You're not FORCED to do anything. This is a product they have for sale... No one's waterboarding you over it.

By making it a ubiquitous part of the platform, they're ensuring that it is available to the developers across the board, meaning you will see innovation in motion/voice control that we don't see now. Sony chooses not to make it ubiquitous... which means they might as well not bother with a camera at all, since there will not be a big enough install base for anyone to make games for it. And while that may be okay with you, it stifles innovation in game controls.

Look at what the two companies showed for their respective cameras at E3. Microsoft showed voice commands, gesture controls, controller tracking via IR, games that let zombies hear your voice for when you want to distract them, let you raise a shield by lifting your controller up, let you turn on night vision by touching your temple, let you dodge by leaning left or right in your chair, let you point to an area to launch artillery there... All without moving from your seat. Sony? They showed people using a controller to vacuum up cute bunnies. Not a single game that actually makes use of the camera... Just a glorified tech demo. Basically, no reason whatsoever for the PSEye to even exist. And if their past history with Eyetoy, etc. is any indication, expect the same neglect of it this generation.

If you're fine with that, awesome... You're going to buy a PS4, so why are you lurking the Kinect thread? Personally, I want games to EVOLVE. Making new control schemes ubiquitous (yet still optional to use) gives developers a guaranteed user base to make those innovations for. That's next-gen to me... not just shinier versions of the same old crap.

Games can evolve without requiring motion controls. How bout we focus on making campaigns more in depth and longer than 4 freakin hours? How bout we bring back some goddamn unlockable cheats? How bout we make a game console that doesn't need to constnatly show me frilly 1080P load screens!? Could we maybe EVOLVE the data access for our games so they're on flash/SSD for instant access instead of slow ass BD media/HDD? I'm not getting either system for a while. I'm going to play my 350 Xbox360 games with a CONTROLLER. The XBOne has too many negatives for me to get it at all, but there are a handful of exclusives I'm sure I'll want to play eventually. I expect the console to get modded by then though. PS4, I'm undecided on. Nintendo screwed old school gamers by forcing the silly wiimote and motion controls by leaving out standard controller support in simple games that would've otherwise been totally playable with a standard controller (see PunchOut, New SMB, etc). If they can make games that have the option of using motion controls OR a controller, fine, but they still can't make arcade/rail shooters worth a damn.
post #47 of 354
MS is not forcing anyone to use the Kinect in games, except if it is specifically developed to use it, like Kinect Sports.

These Xbox pages really need to be required reading. C'mon MS get the word out better!



http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy


Xbox One and Kinect offer easy and approachable ways to control your games and entertainment with your voice and gestures. By recognizing you, Xbox One can tailor personal experiences and customize content just for you.

At Microsoft, we prioritize your privacy. We understand that your personal data and privacy are important. Xbox One and Kinect will provide tools to put you in control of your data. These include:

You are in control of what Kinect can see and hear: By design, you will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options, like automatic or manual sign in, privacy settings, and clear notifications about how data is used. When Xbox One is on and you’re simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded.

You are in control of when Kinect sensing is On, Off or Paused: If you don’t want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect. To turn off your Xbox One, just say “Xbox Off.” When the system is off, it’s only listening for the single voice command -- “Xbox On,” and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you’ll need to turn it back on for these experiences.

You are in control of your personal data: You can play games or enjoy applications that use data, such as videos, photos, facial expressions, heart rate and more, but this data will not leave your Xbox One without your explicit permission. Here are a few examples of potential future scenarios:
A fitness game could measure heart rate data to provide you with improved feedback on your workout, allow you to track your progress, or even measure calories burned.
A card game could allow you to bluff your virtual opponent using your facial expressions.

You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences: While it’s faster to find what you’re looking for using your voice and gesture commands with Kinect, you can use a controller, your remote controls or your smart devices instead. And you can use all of these devices when Kinect is paused.

We’ll have more information available as we get closer to product availability later this year.
post #48 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post

Games can evolve without requiring motion controls. How bout we focus on making campaigns more in depth and longer than 4 freakin hours? How bout we bring back some goddamn unlockable cheats? How bout we make a game console that doesn't need to constnatly show me frilly 1080P load screens!? Could we maybe EVOLVE the data access for our games so they're on flash/SSD for instant access instead of slow ass BD media/HDD? I'm not getting either system for a while. I'm going to play my 350 Xbox360 games with a CONTROLLER. The XBOne has too many negatives for me to get it at all, but there are a handful of exclusives I'm sure I'll want to play eventually. I expect the console to get modded by then though. PS4, I'm undecided on. Nintendo screwed old school gamers by forcing the silly wiimote and motion controls by leaving out standard controller support in simple games that would've otherwise been totally playable with a standard controller (see PunchOut, New SMB, etc). If they can make games that have the option of using motion controls OR a controller, fine, but they still can't make arcade/rail shooters worth a damn.

How does any of that evolve the way we play games?

And Child Of Eden called... and Gunstringer... and hopefully Crimson Dragon, which should have better controls than either of those, though both worked very well with motion controls. Even CD will be controller optional though... so party.
post #49 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

MS is not forcing anyone to use the Kinect in games, except if it is specifically developed to use it, like Kinect Sports.

These Xbox pages really need to be required reading. C'mon MS get the word out better!



http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy


Xbox One and Kinect offer easy and approachable ways to control your games and entertainment with your voice and gestures. By recognizing you, Xbox One can tailor personal experiences and customize content just for you.

At Microsoft, we prioritize your privacy. We understand that your personal data and privacy are important. Xbox One and Kinect will provide tools to put you in control of your data. These include:

You are in control of what Kinect can see and hear: By design, you will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options, like automatic or manual sign in, privacy settings, and clear notifications about how data is used. When Xbox One is on and you’re simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded.

You are in control of when Kinect sensing is On, Off or Paused: If you don’t want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect. To turn off your Xbox One, just say “Xbox Off.” When the system is off, it’s only listening for the single voice command -- “Xbox On,” and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you’ll need to turn it back on for these experiences.

You are in control of your personal data: You can play games or enjoy applications that use data, such as videos, photos, facial expressions, heart rate and more, but this data will not leave your Xbox One without your explicit permission. Here are a few examples of potential future scenarios:
A fitness game could measure heart rate data to provide you with improved feedback on your workout, allow you to track your progress, or even measure calories burned.
A card game could allow you to bluff your virtual opponent using your facial expressions.

You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences: While it’s faster to find what you’re looking for using your voice and gesture commands with Kinect, you can use a controller, your remote controls or your smart devices instead. And you can use all of these devices when Kinect is paused.

We’ll have more information available as we get closer to product availability later this year.

None of that confirms if the system functions without the Kinect plugged in at all. If you can't choose to leave it in the box or trade/sell it, it's not optional.
post #50 of 354
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post

None of that confirms if the system functions without the Kinect plugged in at all. If you can't choose to leave it in the box or trade/sell it, it's not optional.

?

They have made it very clear it has to be connected. That is the bottom line. They also said you have complete control over your Kinect from usability to privacy settings.
post #51 of 354
kind of shocked that Harmonix hasn't announced a Dance Central 4 yet for the One...

but until then, there's Just Dance 2014...

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/13/4427442/just-dance-2014-ps4-xbox-one-launch-title

Just Dance 2014 gets MMO mode, will be PS4, Xbox One launch title

The next installment in Ubisoft's Just Dance franchise, Just Dance 2014, will be a launch title for the Xbox One and PS4 and will include a competitive online feature styled like a massively multiplayer online game, Ubisoft told Polygon.

The game will launch with 40 tracks and Auto Dance videos, short recorded clips of players' routines, can be directly uploaded to Facebook, Twitter and Ubisoft's dedicated Just Dance channel.

Several different new modes have also been added to Just Dance 2014, including one that allows you to dance against "ghosts" of your friends' gameplay, much the way you would do in a racing game. On Stage mode provides routines for one star performer dancing in the foreground with two backup dancers.

Diea calls the new World Dance Floor feature a "massively multiplayer online dance game," in which players worldwide compete for the top slot in online leaderboards. Players around the globe will dance to the same global playlist, and can upload and view one another's AutoDance clips.

Just Dance 2014 will also support karaoke on all consoles with a built-in microphone. Players won't be docked points for singing poorly, but hitting the right notes will earn bonus mojo points that will help drive up an individual dancer's score. The feature will not be included in the Wii version because it requires players to purchase a separate microphone, although Diea said Ubisoft is looking into solutions.

"We have never invested so heavily in features [for a Just Dance game], ever," he said.

Just Dance 2014 is coming to PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, Wii U and Wii this October. The PS4 and Xbox One versions will launch at a later date.
post #52 of 354

alright, I think my worries about this game are over. it's a purchase... though it looks like if you wanted to play it on the 360, you're SOL...

http://www.polygon.com/e3-2013/2013/6/12/4421832/crimson-dragon-xbox-one

Crimson Dragon's director talks moving to Xbox One, gamepad controls and the 360 version

When Microsoft revealed Crimson Dragon in 2010 — then known as Project Draco — fans were conflicted. They loved the Xbox 360 return of on-rails dragon shooting from the director of Saturn classic Panzer Dragoon, but were less universal in their love for its Kinect-only control scheme. Answering those concerns on Monday, Microsoft announced that Crimson Dragon is headed to Xbox One, and that the game will now support both Kinect and traditional gamepad controls.

In an interview with Polygon following the announcement, game director Yukio Futatsugi said Microsoft approached him around the time of last year's Electronic Entertainment Expo to suggest switching to the new hardware, and he decided to do it because he thought it would help make a better game.

When Futatsugi first started work on the game, notably, it wasn't a lack of time that prevented his team from adding gameplay controls. In a 2011 interview, he said he hadn't added them because the game was designed from the start for Kinect.

"It probably could be done physically on a controller if you tried," he told website 1UP. "But that would totally throw off the game balance, difficulty ... all that stuff. And it's not just difficulty and game balance in that sense, but it's also because all of the game decisions and level designs have been made from the ground up to be able to be enjoyed on Kinect. We have no idea if would be fun if you played on a controller — we couldn't make any guarantees there. I'm sure really dedicated Panzer fans want to play on a controller, so I understand that feeling, but if I were to make a controller game it probably wouldn't be this game."

Speaking this week, Futatsugi told Polygon fan reaction was the main reason he wanted to put gamepad controls back in, which he was able to do when he found himself with extra development time in the move to Xbox One.

Asked how he's compensating for a game design originally built around Kinect controls, with all the subtleties that involves, Futatsugi acknowledged that balancing the game to support both interfaces is a challenge. "Balancing the game is the most difficult part of development at the moment because playing it with Kinect and playing with the gamepad are two totally different ways to enjoy the game," he said. "That's what I'm suffering through right now."

Futatsugi added that there won't be any level design differences whether players choose to play using the gamepad or Kinect controls in the final game, and that the game will allow players to swap between modes on the fly. Rather than selecting an interface up front, players will be able to hold the controller or put their hands up and the game will automatically identify how they want to play. In order to balance the two control modes, the game will subtly increase the size and speed of the aiming reticule when players use Kinect controls, though this will be invisible to players.

Futatsugi's other struggle at the moment is balancing the game based on how players choose to play. Players will be able to attempt the same campaign by themselves or with one or two friends — or with an artificial intelligence-driven dragon based on a friend's saved data. "It's difficult," he said. "We're trying out a way we can balance that without taking too much time, while still making the game fun."

Beyond that, Futatsugi said the game has changed in subtle ways since its transition from Xbox 360 to Xbox One. It's still running on Unreal Engine 3, with a mix of new and old art assets showing more detail and background objects. And it still contains a light role-playing system for players to upgrade their dragons over time. But now players will be able to choose from six types of dragons rather than six dragons, and they will be able to use Kinect for voice commands, though Futatsugi declined to say specifically how those will work.

Futatsugi confirmed the game is still planned only as a downloadable title, though when asked if Microsoft will sell the game using a free to play model similar to Killer Instinct's, he said he doesn't know yet. He's considering adding a Smart Glass feature, but said it will be relatively minor if it makes it in, and says that he hopes to add additional game stages and dragon types as downloadable content if the game sells well enough to justify it. He also couldn't commit to a release date or even a release year, just saying the game will be on the way "soon."

Finally, Futatsugi said that the Xbox 360 version of the game "has not officially been canceled." But Futatsugi could only hint at what that means. "Microsoft is going to make an announcement about that, so I can't really talk about it," he said.
post #53 of 354
Is Crimson Dragon a launch title or is it coming out in 2014?
post #54 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Is Crimson Dragon a launch title or is it coming out in 2014?

This is a 2014 title
post #55 of 354
cool blog post by Oliver Kreylos. he's the guy that made one of the most famous original Kinect hacker demos.

Now his thoughts on Kinect 2.0:

http://doc-ok.org/?p=584

This article about the upcoming next Kinect-for-Windows mentions “Microsoft’s proprietary Time-of-Flight technology,” which is an entirely different method to sense depth than the current Kinect’s structured light approach. That’s kind of a big deal.

According to the leak, the new Kinect (“Kinect2″ from here on out) has a depth camera resolution of 512×424 pixels. This surprised me initially, given that Kinect1′s depth camera has a resolution of 640×480 pixels. But, the Xbox 360 only used a depth image of 320×240 pixels for its skeletal tracking, mostly for performance reasons. So at first I guessed that the new Xbox would again only use a downsampled depth image, and that the leaked resolution was the downsampled one, leading to a “true” depth resolution of 1024×848 pixels. That sounds nice, but read on.

But here’s the problem: the Kinect1′s depth camera is not a real camera; it’s a virtual camera, created by combining images from the real IR camera (which has 1280×1024 resolution) with light patterns projected by the IR emitter. And therein lies the rub. While the virtual depth camera’s nominal resolution is 640×480, the IR camera can only calculate a depth value for one of its (real) pixels if that pixel happens to see one of the myriad of light dots projected by the pattern emitter. And because the light dots must have some space between them, to be told apart by the IR camera, and to create a 2D pattern with a long repetition length, only a small fraction of the IR camera’s pixels will see light dots in any given setting. The depth values from those pixels will then be resampled into the 640×480 output image, and depth values for all other pixels will be created out of thin air, by interpolation between neighboring real depth values.

The bottom line is that in Kinect1, the depth camera’s nominal resolution is a poor indicator of its effective resolution. Roughly estimating, only around 1 in every 20 pixels has a real depth measurement in typical situations. This is the reason Kinect1 has trouble detecting small objects, such as finger tips pointing directly at the camera. There’s a good chance a small object will fall entirely between light dots, and therefore not contribute anything to the final depth image. This also means that simply increasing the depth camera’s resolution, say to 1024×848, without making the projected IR pattern finer and denser as well, would not result in more data, only in more interpolation. That’s why I wasn’t excited until I found out about the change in technology.

In a time-of-flight depth camera, the depth camera is a real camera (with a single real lens), with every pixel containing a real depth measurement. This means that, while the nominal resolution of Kinect2′s depth camera is lower than Kinect1′s, its effective resolution is likely much higher, potentially by a factor of ten or so.

From a purely technical point of view, if Kinect2 really does use a time-of-flight depth camera, and if that camera’s native resolution really is 512×424, that’s a major achievement in itself. As of now, time-of-flight cameras have very low resolutions, usually 160×120 or 320×240. Even Intel/Creative’s upcoming depth camera is reported to use 320×240, or a factor of three fewer pixels than Kinect2.

Structured-light depth cameras have another subtle drawback. To measure the depth of a point on a surface, that point has to be visible to both the camera and pattern emitter. This leads to distinct “halos” around foreground objects. More distant surfaces on the left side of the foreground object can’t be seen by the camera, whereas surfaces on the right side can’t be seen by the pattern emitter (or the other way around, depending on camera layout). The larger the depth distance between foreground and background objects, the wider the halo. A time-of-flight camera, on the other hand, can measure the depth of any surfaces it can see itself. In truth, there is still an emitter involved; the emitter needs to create a well-timed pulse of light whose return time can be measured. But since depth resolution does not linearly depend on the distance between the camera and emitter, the emitter can be very close to the camera — it can even shoot through the same lens — and the resulting halos are much smaller, or gone completely.

So is the higher depth resolution just an incremental improvement, or a major new feature? For some applications, like skeleton tracking or 3D video, it is indeed only incremental, albeit highly welcome. But there are very important applications for which Kinect1′s depth resolution was barely not good enough, most importantly finger and face tracking. Based on the known specs, I am expecting that Kinect2′s depth camera will be able to resolve finger tips at medium distance reliably, even when pointing directly at the camera. This will enable new natural user interfaces for 3D interactions, such as grabbing, moving, rotating, and scaling virtual three-dimensional objects (where the Leap Motion would otherwise be king). Reliable face tracking could be used to create truly holographic 3D displays completely based on commodity hardware, i.e., PC, Kinect2, 3D TV. My VR software could already use both of these features, if the current Kinect’s resolution were just a tad higher.

So on to the really important question: can someone like me actually use those new capabilities? Or, phrased differently, is Kinect2 as easy to use off-label as Kinect1? Or, phrased yet another way, is Kinect2 hackable? Looking back 2.5 years, it took only a few days between the original Kinect’s appearance in stores and its USB protocol having been reverse-engineered, because Microsoft “forgot” to put encryption or authentication into the protocol. Microsoft’s PR machine put a happy face on the whole incident back then, but I’m not sure they wouldn’t rather have kept control.
post #56 of 354
Great thread. Love reading about *science* on the AVScience forums. wink.gif

I'm really happy that Microsoft is putting this in the box with every Xbox One. It's groundbreaking stuff... once people see it in use, everyone is going to want one in their living room/home theater.

I'm desperately trying to find a demo of the sound isolation tech on the new Kinect microphone. I swear I had seen a video demonstrating it. There are some people concerned Microsoft is not including a headphone/mic headset with the new system standard. However, from what I saw of the demo, the new Kinect microphone can separate your voice out from a very noisy room quite easily.
post #57 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

Great thread. Love reading about *science* on the AVScience forums. wink.gif

I'm desperately trying to find a demo of the sound isolation tech on the new Kinect microphone.

the video on the first page has a demo of the noise cancellation. I'm not sure it's the one you watched...

go to the 3:55 mark
post #58 of 354
Forza Motorsport 5 will have head-tracking! hopefully it works better than with 360/Kinect 1.0. some other neat info on the game.

http://simhqmotorsports.com/wp/feature-e3-2013-recap-part-ii-forza-motorsport-5/

E3 2013 Recap: Part II – Forza Motorsport 5

Introduction

After learning all they could about Gran Turismo 6, Chunx and SeanManly were off to visit “Brand ‘X’ (box)” – better known as Turn 10 Studios’ Forza Motorsport 5 for the Xbox One. With a far deeper well of computing power to draw upon, Forza 5 was everything you’d expect: visually gorgeous, with healthy doses of believable vehicle dynamics.

Forza Motorsport 5

While people waited in line to try FM5, members of the Turn 10 developers provided factoids about things like the game engine’s new math model for capturing tire camber changes when the car’s suspension is flexing, and the graphics engine’s ability to pump out 1080p visuals at a steady 60 fps. It’s a good thing that Turn 10 had employees to chat up folks waiting in the cue, because you had to spend a long time in it to get a shot at driving the game: Forza 5, a flagship launch title for the Xbox One, was shown with only one cockpit/wheel combo. The rest of the display consisted of four monitors with game pads. Contrast that to GT6, where Sony laid out an even dozen cockpit/T500RS sleds to savor that title with.



Putting the cherry on top of Forza 5 game display was a very early prototype of Thrustmaster’s new Xbox One wheel and pedals. When we say “prototype”, we mean “early development mule” − the wheel and pedals appeared to be a hodge-podge of parts bin raiding and metal project boxes never intended to see retail sale.

The Thrustmaster wheel and associated game code is clearly in an early and incomplete stage of development. Chunx noted how other people drove with the Thrustmaster development wheel; sawing back and forth as if they were trying to find center − perhaps due to input lag. Then when he drove FM5, he noticed that, to a certain extent, he was doing the same thing. Reviewing the videos the SimHQ Motorsports team took of FM5, it was clearly input lag. At the other end of the controller, all three of Thrustmaster’s pedals had the same, limp spring resistance, lacking the feel that a more polished product would have. In our opinion, Thurstmaster’s prototype wheel complicated anyone’s ability to assess the title, and actually hampered Turn 10′s ability to showcase Forza 5, which is unfortunate.

There was only one track to drive, a fictional street circuit in eastern Europe, which you got to complete one lap of. That’s about 2 minutes of driving to assess the game. With only one cockpit sled to demonstrate the title, there was little opportunity for the rank-and-file E3 attendee to get a feel for the game. Luckily, the Forza 5 launch party gave SinHQ Motorsports many more opportunities to try the game out.

The game isn’t anywhere close to being finished yet. Developers told us several times that the title is only a little over half-finished. So what everyone tried at E3 was essentially a WIP (work in-progress) and not fully reflective of the final product.

At the Forza 5 launch party, we watched another reporter try the title with most of the driving assists left on. It seemed apparent to us both that using all the driving aids/assists do not penalize your car’s performance, so it’s quite possible to get better lap times with certain combinations of aids. While that’s not surprising for a console racer, it is something we hope will be addressed by Turn 10 before final product release.

So, all those caveats aside, what did we think about Forza Motorsport 5?

It’s stunningly beautiful. The graphics power of the new Xbox One’s AMD hardware really shines through, and raises the bar of what’s possible for a racing simulation on consoles. Sun glare has a realistic impact on your ability to aim the car, reflections come, go and move on the windshield, shadows hide some track features. The sounds are equally impressive, changing in tone and pitch as trackside objects (like tunnel walls) reflect the engine sounds. Recognizing that any racing game needs to translate some dynamic vehicle motions into audio cues, the tire scrub and skid sounds are also very well done. Street tires sound like what you’ll hear at a track day event. Frankly, you’d expect no less from a game leveraging the latest gaming console technology.

In terms of physics, FM5 is dressed to impress. With all aids turned off, the car’s handling felt pretty realistic, punishing you with gross understeer if you over-drove it into the corners or snapping the tail out if you trail-braked a bit too aggressively. In one sweeping corner with a camber change, Chunx mashed the gas to develop some power-on oversteer. The car’s rear end immediately slid out, and a too-slow correction (input lag?) led to a tank-slapper into the outside wall. Unlike earlier versions of Forza there was no feeling that a “hand of god” would suddenly dampen the laws of physics and save you from disaster (and with the wheel lag present in the demo, there was A LOT of disasters at E3)… which is good news for sim racers looking for a realistic challenge. We didn’t get much of a sense of inertia from the car, but we have to chalk that one up to the state of the TM wheel and associated game controller code. So in spite of the wheel issues, Forza 5′s overall feel from the physics engine was pretty good.



Developer Interview

At one point in the show, Chunx had the honor of talking with Barry Feather, Turn 10′s Executive Producer, and Aleks Brooks of the development team. First off, Barry stated that as of E3, Forza 5 is at about the 50% – 70% stage of completion in terms of physics. Calspan is supporting Turn 10′s chassis physics and tire data collection, with Pirelli is the tire team providing Turn 10 with tire model data (via Calspan). What Turn 10 put together for E3 isn’t sufficient for a final product, so they’re still receiving more data and continuing to work on the tire and physics model to fully leverage the the Xbox One’s APU.

As for wheels, Barry tells us there will be there will be multiple wheel options for the Xbox One at launch of the game. We know Thrustmaster is one, but who is the other manufacturer? Barry wouldn’t say. One thing we do know is that no current wheel for any other gaming platform will be compatible with the Xbox One. There might be some mod kits in the future, but for now you’ll need a new wheel if you want to play FM5.

Barry also talked about the single player experience, and that there is no AI per-se in FM5. Now there are “Drivatars”, where your Xbox One learns your driving style at a certain track, and when the Xbox One does its daily contact to the mother ship, it uploads data on how you drive at a certain track: line, braking points, passing techniques. When a player races the AI in FM5, the Xbox One pulls down Drivatars from the cloud that meet the desired skill level for that track, and that’s sets the opponents list for that race. So even the AI in FM5 will have human tendencies, to include driver errors.

Sadly, Barry told us that no pit strategy options available (apparently pit stops are boring for most Forza racers in Microsoft’s focus groups. We’d opine that they had the wrong people in their focus group).

When asked about how the new Xbox One Kinect will be used by FM5, we learned that it will offer some pretty robust head-tracking in-cockpit. The older Kinect had problems with back-lit situations and some clutter environments, as well as tracking accuracy. The new Kinect can use low-light and other electro-optic modes to precisely track your facial features and give you accurate head movement in-car.

In terms of race hosting online, FM5 will offer more Multiplayer race hosting features on the serve, but didn’t elaborate.

As for car sounds, Alex told Chunx that for FM5 actual cars on modeled in the game were placed on dynamometers were used for engine sound recordings so they could capture exactly how the engine sounds under load. Tire sounds generated by the game are driven by the physics model, but Alek was not quite sure how they acquired them.

At the Turn 10 Forza 5 launch party, Turn 10 head Dan Greenawalt announced Indy Car would be a part of the upcoming title, with the current-gen Dallara chassis cars modeled in the game. And in a cooperative effort with the movie “Rush”, the McLaren M23 and Ferrari 312-2 Formula 1 cars from the 1976 season will also be modeled in the game.
post #59 of 354
WoW! That sounds pretty cool if it can track your head movement and have it change while driving on the screen. This will be a Day 1 download for me.
post #60 of 354
I'm so glad they're doing head tracking for Forza. Can't wait to try that out!
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