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The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1030, RX-A2030, RX-A3030 and CX-A5000/MX-A5000 Thread - Page 20

post #571 of 2244
Wondering if you guys might be able to answer a question about my A830. I have my hdmi running directly
to tv, don't want to go through avr because of pic quality issue, but want to have the avrs onscreen menu available.
The avr has a monitor out connection for both composite and component , tried both and it won't pass the signal- used hdmi and all was ok, but why can't I just get it to pass the composit or component signal?
Thanks
post #572 of 2244
The 830 is only designed to output it's GUI via HDMI (seems stupid, but the manual mentions it). But sending HDMI video through the receiver should not affect picture quality.
post #573 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post

Go for something with XT32 instead (or maybe Dirac), YPAO is a bad joke really.

I wouldn't say that YPAO is a joke necessarily, but ... People ask why there isn't more feedback on the Yamaha units. Well, I have a Marantz 8801, and I'm following this thread, because I've owned some Yamaha gear in the past, and I also really have liked their DSP. But ... a room EQ solution that doesn't deal with room nodes created by low frequency constructive and deconstructive interference, frankly, I just don't understand that.
post #574 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

The 830 is only designed to output it's GUI via HDMI (seems stupid, but the manual mentions it). But sending HDMI video through the receiver should not affect picture quality.

So, eventhough it can output a composite or component signal, the GUI is only on the hdmi out. Seems strange.
Also, when I tried running through the avr, the contrast level was enhanced just enough to make it too bright and I could not get the same pic quality by just backing off the contrast level- and I did have it set for direct, not video processing. It's subtle, but I am very sensitive to differing brightness levels.
post #575 of 2244
If the contrast and/or brightness are being changed with processing disabled then I would definitely consider that a bug and report it to Yamaha. In fact on the 830 these things shouldn't be changed even if processing is enabled (since that's not the kind of processing it can do).

When you compare the picture through the AVR vs direct to TV, make sure you use the same HDMI input on the TV (since each input might be calibrated differently), and check that the colour space is the same (RGB vs YCbCr) as that might explain subtle differences.
post #576 of 2244
Question for the CX-A5000 users. Does the Manual Equalization PEQ features allow the modification to the centre frequency in the bands? I looked at the online user manual, page 109 and it seems to suggest it does but just wanted to check. For example if the center frequency is 62.5Hz and you want to tame a nasty peak of 8dB at 58Hz can you move the band center frequency back to 58Hz.

Any information greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.
post #577 of 2244
The xx30 line has the same GUI as the xx20 one?

I am between the A2020 and the A1030 , and i lean to the A2020 because of the more amps and power.Spotify is useless for me , and i don't believe that the ess dacs will be something groundbreaking compared to the bbrowns...

Anything else (important) in favor of the 1030?
YPAO is the same ?

Thanks in advance.
post #578 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Question for the CX-A5000 users. Does the Manual Equalization PEQ features allow the modification to the centre frequency in the bands? I looked at the online user manual, page 109 and it seems to suggest it does but just wanted to check. For example if the center frequency is 62.5Hz and you want to tame a nasty peak of 8dB at 58Hz can you move the band center frequency back to 58Hz.

The centre frequencies can be moved, but only in 1/3 octave intervals. So the choices you get are 31.3, 39.4, 49.6, 62.5, 78.7, 99.2, 125Hz etc. (doubling every 3 steps).

For 58 Hz you have to use 62.5Hz since that's the nearest. You'll still get some effect at 58Hz because even with the highest supported Q factor the filter is not that narrow, but this is far from ideal. You may want to look at separate sub EQ systems.
post #579 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

The centre frequencies can be moved, but only in 1/3 octave intervals. So the choices you get are 31.3, 39.4, 49.6, 62.5, 78.7, 99.2, 125Hz etc. (doubling every 3 steps).

For 58 Hz you have to use 62.5Hz since that's the nearest. You'll still get some effect at 58Hz because even with the highest supported Q factor the filter is not that narrow, but this is far from ideal. You may want to look at separate sub EQ systems.

Thanks! I have two Paradigm Reference Seismic 110 subwoofers with Paradigm's Perfect Bass Kit EQ so I have a pretty flat subwoofer response already. Was just trying to see how flexible the center frequency capability was. Also, is it possible to use all the existing filters in the frequency range of say 80 - 400Hz? I.e. for the front left and right speakers, crossed over at 80Hz, just use PEQ in that frequency range where the room is dominant.

wonder if this could be a firmware update to allow users to dial in the exact center frequency.

Appreciate the answers.

Cheers.
post #580 of 2244
Assuming the CX-A5000 has the same PEQ implementation as the other high-end RX-A series (which I'm pretty sure it does):

Each of the 2 sub channels has 4 filters in the range 31.3 to 250Hz.
Every other channel has 7 filters, the first 4 of which can be 31.3Hz to 16kHz, and the other 3 can be 500Hz to 16kHz.
(in all cases the 1/3 octave limitation applies)

Yamaha have used the same method for a long time. The Z11 (with its 4 DSPs) had additional PEQ filters with a finer frequency choice specifically for addressing standing waves, but no other model has this.

If Yamaha ever improve their EQ system, I would say there's no chance it will be made available on existing models as a firmware update.
post #581 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Assuming the CX-A5000 has the same PEQ implementation as the other high-end RX-A series (which I'm pretty sure it does):

Each of the 2 sub channels has 4 filters in the range 31.3 to 250Hz.
Every other channel has 7 filters, the first 4 of which can be 31.3Hz to 16kHz, and the other 3 can be 500Hz to 16kHz.
(in all cases the 1/3 octave limitation applies)

Yamaha have used the same method for a long time. The Z11 (with its 4 DSPs) had additional PEQ filters with a finer frequency choice specifically for addressing standing waves, but no other model has this.

If Yamaha ever improve their EQ system, I would say there's no chance it will be made available on existing models as a firmware update.

Okay, thanks again. That's not very practical in terms of restricting frequencies to have to fall exactly on the 1/3 octave boundary. I can't imagine why they would do that. If the DSP has the processing power to apply 7 filters the exact center frequency is irrelevant. The CX-A5000 has more DSP capability than the 3030 so one would think/hope it would have more of a PEQ. Can any A5000 owner comment on what the PEQ capability is --- e.g. is it exactly the same as the 3030 etc.

Cheers.
Edited by TKO1 - 9/26/13 at 1:10pm
post #582 of 2244
Another question as I am seriously considering buying one of these.

With an analog input from a Blu-Ray/SACD/DVD-A player (e.g. Oppo BDP-105) normally the user has the ability to add a +10dB (large speaker setting) or +15dB (small speaker setting) boost in the AVR/Processor to the subwoofer channel to compensate for the lowered amplitude. I looked through the online user manual but couldn't find any reference to this setting.

Can anyone confirm it is available or does the Yamaha automatically boost it by 10dB expecting it to be a large setting input? The user would need to boost it an additional +5dB to get it correct for small speaker settings on the Blu-Ray player etc.

Any information on this, and my previous question re. PEQ above, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Cheers
post #583 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

... The CX-A5000 has more DSP capability than the 3030 so one would think/hope it would have more of a PEQ. Can any A5000 owner comment on what the PEQ capability is --- e.g. is it exactly the same as the 3030 etc.

I haven't seen the service manual for the CX-A5000 myself, but I think it's a very similar design internally to the 3030 (same two DSPs most likely). But someone here does have access to the SM.
post #584 of 2244
DSD over HMDI?

I queried Yamaha and have been told DSD is maintained and not processed into PCM if Direct (Pure Direct) is on, and room correction is off. The DSD signal does get converted to analog via the ESS Sabre chip. That is if I understand the Yamaha response correctly.

Is that what other owners also understand?

Thank you.
post #585 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I haven't seen the service manual for the CX-A5000 myself, but I think it's a very similar design internally to the 3030 (same two DSPs most likely). But someone here does have access to the SM.

Thanks.

I have posed the questions above to Yamaha but they haven't replied yet. Be nice to know before I order one ;-)

Cheers.
post #586 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

I have posed the questions above to Yamaha but they haven't replied yet. Be nice to know before I order one ;-)

Don't take what you hear from Yamaha support as gospel, they don't always have the correct answers. I'd be very surprised if the 5000 is not just a repackaged 3030 with a few minor changes (see this post).
post #587 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Don't take what you hear from Yamaha support as gospel, they don't always have the correct answers. I'd be very surprised if the 5000 is not just a repackaged 3030 with a few minor changes (see this post).

Well it would be nice to actually hear back from them. Kinda sets the tone for customer service support ;-)

From what I read it has significantly different hardware changes in the signal path --- now whether they are noticeable or not is another story. I thought I saw something related to dual DACs per channel but I can't find the reference now.

Cheers.
post #588 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Well it would be nice to actually hear back from them. Kinda sets the tone for customer service support ;-)

From what I read it has significantly different hardware changes in the signal path --- now whether they are noticeable or not is another story. I thought I saw something related to dual DACs per channel but I can't find the reference now.

Cheers.
If you sent the msg this weekend then it would only reach Level 1 and they wouldnt know the answer. Level 2 works M-F.
If you dont hear back today you can call them during business hours and request Level 2. They will call you back within 24 hrs.
post #589 of 2244

Hi guys!

 

I'm new to this forum and found this thread to be the biggest thread regarding the "new" RX-xx30-receivers and I'm having some trouble of optimizing the sound in my 5.1-speakers with my 1030. Could I discuss my problem in this thread or are you guys only discussing the techs? If so, which subforum could I use?

post #590 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

If you sent the msg this weekend then it would only reach Level 1 and they wouldnt know the answer. Level 2 works M-F.
If you dont hear back today you can call them during business hours and request Level 2. They will call you back within 24 hrs.

Thanks.

I don't mind waiting a week etc. if necessary while I do my research. My dealer will be getting the first order in this week so I will get a chance to see it firsthand. I was just hoping that the questions I raised here would be answered by someone who owns it. ;-) The issue with respect to the analog input subwoofer amplitude is a well known thing that the AVR must account for. Every AVR I had with 7.1 analog inputs had a setting to raise it +5, +10 and +15dB. If this doesn't happen automatically (i.e. the 10dB boost) and there is no setting for it why bother having 7.1 analog inputs?

And for the PEQ it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to have the center frequencies for the PEQ locked to a specific frequency. The user manual seems to suggest you can move the center frequency but the way it is written could mean "move between center frequencies" so as to choose one of the fixed frequencies. I am only interested in the frequency range up to 300Hz and would like to be able to use all the PEQ in that region. I realize that it is set into two distinct bands one below and one above 500Hz but that is a bizarre choice as well. For a "flagship" model the PEQ should be completely assignable to any center frequency so if the user wants to use all the PEQ horsepower between 80 and 300Hz they can. If not, then Yamaha should issue a firmware update to allow this. The audio press reviewers, if they do their job properly, should point this out but I don't hold any breath for that to happen.

Cheers.
post #591 of 2244
Yamaha PEQ has always worked with 1/3 octave centre frequencies. Agreed that it only really matters for the bass (where it is a big limitation), but I would bet money it's still the same on the CX-A5000, and if they ever change to a better system it won't be provided as an update to existing models. That's just the way they normally work (if you want new features you have to buy a new model).
post #592 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Yamaha PEQ has always worked with 1/3 octave centre frequencies. Agreed that it only really matters for the bass (where it is a big limitation), but I would bet money it's still the same on the CX-A5000, and if they ever change to a better system it won't be provided as an update to existing models. That's just the way they normally work (if you want new features you have to buy a new model).

That would be really sad. This would not be difficult to achieve either and could easily be a firmware update. It is just straightforward DSP code. As long as you stay within the limits of the DSP's memory it should be trivial to implement that change. All you are doing is moving the center frequency from an arbitrary number to another number. They could even stay in the same frequency range (dumb but there might be some specific digital filter in place within the DSP chip design that forces that cutoff) but allow the user to pick the center frequencies.

Cheers.
post #593 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Thanks.

I don't mind waiting a week etc. if necessary while I do my research. My dealer will be getting the first order in this week so I will get a chance to see it firsthand. I was just hoping that the questions I raised here would be answered by someone who owns it. ;-) The issue with respect to the analog input subwoofer amplitude is a well known thing that the AVR must account for. Every AVR I had with 7.1 analog inputs had a setting to raise it +5, +10 and +15dB. If this doesn't happen automatically (i.e. the 10dB boost) and there is no setting for it why bother having 7.1 analog inputs?

And for the PEQ it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to have the center frequencies for the PEQ locked to a specific frequency. The user manual seems to suggest you can move the center frequency but the way it is written could mean "move between center frequencies" so as to choose one of the fixed frequencies. I am only interested in the frequency range up to 300Hz and would like to be able to use all the PEQ in that region. I realize that it is set into two distinct bands one below and one above 500Hz but that is a bizarre choice as well. For a "flagship" model the PEQ should be completely assignable to any center frequency so if the user wants to use all the PEQ horsepower between 80 and 300Hz they can. If not, then Yamaha should issue a firmware update to allow this. The audio press reviewers, if they do their job properly, should point this out but I don't hold any breath for that to happen.

Cheers.
Have you looked into a different brand?
post #594 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Have you looked into a different brand?

Pretty well non-stop ;-) This looks like the best preamp/pro for the money with a couple of issues that if they fix would be top of the pile.

Cheers.
post #595 of 2244
I'm still trying to figure out party mode. I want to be able to play anything, especially 7.1 movies, and have all that audio sent out simultaneously to a Russound whole house audio system. The Russound system provides its own amplification. Whatever I play, I want downmixed (so I don't lose center channel dialog) into stereo and sent out over preamp output for zone 2. Is there an Aventage receiver that does this? I tried Yamaha support, they said audio with party mode would be played out in zone 1 in multichannel stereo, whatever that means. Are they saying it would just be 2 channels but duplicated to the rear and side channels?
post #596 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Well it would be nice to actually hear back from them. Kinda sets the tone for customer service support ;-)

From what I read it has significantly different hardware changes in the signal path --- now whether they are noticeable or not is another story. I thought I saw something related to dual DACs per channel but I can't find the reference now.

Cheers.

Just remembered where I came across the info regarding the dual DACs. It was from their AVENTAGE CX-A5000 Overview Video.

From the video:

"couple this processing with the musicality of dual ESS Ultra D to A converters".

So if they have done dual ESS 9016 SABRE32 Ultra DACs on each channel you get a DNR of 128dB. That is very impressive. You can get an idea of how well this compares to other pre/pros and AVRs from Dr. Rich's excellent analysis AVR - Audio Video Receiver - Build Quality: Part 1 from the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity.

Cheers.
post #597 of 2244
Anyone know if the A2030 or A3030 can support both bi-amping the fronts AND using front presence speakers?

I have:

2 Fronts
1 Center
2 Front Presence speakers
2 Rear Surrounds
1 Sub

I was excited to get the 9.2 A2030, thinking for sure it would allow me to bi-amp my fronts and still use the front presence speakers... but now that I'm trying to set it up that way, it looks to me like I can't!

I really like the "dialogue lift" feature using front presence speakers, so I think I'll use 'em. Sure wish I could put the other two "unused" amps to use bi-amping the fronts.

Thankful for any responses,
Janibrewski
post #598 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflatt View Post

I'm still trying to figure out party mode. I want to be able to play anything, especially 7.1 movies, and have all that audio sent out simultaneously to a Russound whole house audio system. The Russound system provides its own amplification. Whatever I play, I want downmixed (so I don't lose center channel dialog) into stereo and sent out over preamp output for zone 2. Is there an Aventage receiver that does this? I tried Yamaha support, they said audio with party mode would be played out in zone 1 in multichannel stereo, whatever that means. Are they saying it would just be 2 channels but duplicated to the rear and side channels?


That's exactly what they mean.
post #599 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janibrewski View Post

Anyone know if the A2030 or A3030 can support both bi-amping the fronts AND using front presence speakers?

I have:

2 Fronts
1 Center
2 Front Presence speakers
2 Rear Surrounds
1 Sub

I was excited to get the 9.2 A2030, thinking for sure it would allow me to bi-amp my fronts and still use the front presence speakers... but now that I'm trying to set it up that way, it looks to me like I can't!

I really like the "dialogue lift" feature using front presence speakers, so I think I'll use 'em. Sure wish I could put the other two "unused" amps to use bi-amping the fronts.

Thankful for any responses,
Janibrewski
Bi amping your fronts with the AVR is a waste of time and you will get absolutely no benefit.
Solution: Get a pair of back surrounds.
post #600 of 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Bi amping your fronts with the AVR is a waste of time and you will get absolutely no benefit.
Solution: Get a pair of back surrounds.

This. x1,000
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