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The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1030, RX-A2030, RX-A3030 and CX-A5000/MX-A5000 Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 2229
Oh hey....question for you guys using the 30x0 Aventage AVR's:

I can find nothing that says for sure that there is actual 11.1 output from the AVR. I know with an extra amp you can have all 11ch hooked up and ready to go but in the manual it says: The surround back speakers and rear presence speakers do not produce sounds simultaneously. The unit
automatically changes the speakers to be used, depending on the selected sound program


Then it says:

(RX-A3030 only)
You can make an 11-channel system by using an external power amplifier


So in the text's for the 30x0 it says things touting the HD^3 DSP addition and when I look into it what it mentions is "enhanced vertical dimension" (or to that effect) and the point is shown that both the rear surrounds and the front presence channels so that's just 9.1 but no mention of a DSP effect necessarily using all 11.1 channels.

Technically my Onkyo TXNR3007 supports 11.1 too but it can only output as high as 9.1 because I guess a pair of DAC's are shared or something.

I've never owned one of these 11.1ch Yamaha's but the DSP interests me greatly. I feel as though the full presence effect (both front and rear) would be awesome along with the full 7.1 layout. Can anyone confirm if a full 11.1ch output can actually be had? Be it the source is 2ch, 5.1 or 7.1 it would be sweet to get the extra four presence since it is a premium inclusion and just in these two upper models.
post #62 of 2229
Yes definitely it can.

You use the 9 channel amp from the 3030 and get a 2-ch amp for channels 10 and 11. You'll get all 11 channels running at the same time in no time!
post #63 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Yes definitely it can.

You use the 9 channel amp from the 3030 and get a 2-ch amp for channels 10 and 11. You'll get all 11 channels running at the same time in no time!

You've heard full 11.1 output from one of these? I just want to know for sure that all presence speakers can be used with a full 7.1 system for the full effect. It's just a bit unclear and I've read all of these manuals going back to the first Aventage AVR's. tongue.gif

I'm going to be using fully active and powered LCR's so I can set the 3030 for 9.1+front according to the 'power amp assign' function. That all makes sense but it just sounds from the way things are worded in the manual that certain DSP's use certain combinations of speakers and/or presence and no mention that for sure that one would get full 11.1ch which is what I want if I'm going to spend a premium on that supposed extra capability.

Juuuuusssssttt want to be sure. biggrin.gif
post #64 of 2229
only the HD3 DSP modes use the full 11 channel configuration. Some of the DSP programs that are not HD3 will NOT use more than 9 channels.
post #65 of 2229
Thanks! That all the explanation I needed. smile.gif
post #66 of 2229
I run a Yamaha RX-A3010 with all external amplifiers and I am also going to purchase the CX-A5000 as soon as it comes out and here are my reasons;

1. HEAT, I don't use the amplifier section on my current receiver but the amps are still on and generate heat, going with a prepro will help lower the temps
2. You can run 11 channels and a 1 zone (zone 2), the current receivers will not as they will turn off the rear presence speakers to utilize any other zone
3. If you look closely at the manual, there are quite a few differences between the 3030 and A5000, the two that stand out to me is the ability to change DAC settings and the pre out Voltage differences.
4. You can attenuate by + or - 6DB on the XLR inputs (this is a nice feature for channel leveling)
5. XLR can make a difference as the XLR outputs are +6 DB higher than the RCA outputs (ie lower volume for louder playback = a bit more headroom)
6. Weight and size as the A5000 is lighter and not as deep (this is a big deal to me as the 3010 is 18" deep not including the cable room needed after they are connected

I have allways been a fan of prepros owning Carver, B&K, Mark Levinson, and Rotel. After my B&K died I bought the RSA-3010 as a quick replacement due to its prepro out jacks but was still looking for a good prepro. I almost purchased the Marantz 8801 but on the day I was going to place the order I saw the Yamaha and since I do like the sound of the 3010 and its great features I will now preorder a CX-A5000 in about two weeks and can't wait.

By the way I am running an AT ATI 2004 and AT AT 2007 power amps so I have 11 channels at 200 watts each ready to go.smile.gif
post #67 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I don't see the need to run a CX-A5000. The 3030 have an identical feature set (admittedly with 10 less DSP programs) for 65% of the price. Just use the 3030 and buy an Emotiva 5-ch and 7-ch amps. The MX-A5000 all-channel driven power is also no more than 80 wpc.

I was so excited originally when I saw the announcement, but after reading and comparing the manual and service manual, I think it's a waste of money.

As excited as I also was when I heard about the CX-A5000, I'm starting to feel the same way, mainly because of the price. I was honestly expecting it to be similarly priced or perhaps only a little more than the 3030, but the actual price difference has me doing a double-take. The point that was also brought up about the preamp voltage might be a concern for some, but since I never drive my gear anywhere near ear-bleed levels it has never been an issue with me. Granted that I've had my share of dedicated pre-pros over the years, it has still never been a problem with me on my 3010 due to my listening habits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post

I've been running an RX-Z11 for years now (almost 6) without using its amps. That has worked fine for me but the added heat and weight (the Z11 weighs about 85 lbs) for the 11 amplifier channels that aren't being used has always been a bother. Given that, I've been waiting a long time for Yamaha to release a flagship preamp (I prefer their DSP functionality) that I could replace the Z11 with the CX-A5000. So much so that I've pre-ordered it already. biggrin.gif

Heat and the amps sitting idle has also always been a big concern for me when using an AVR as a preamp. My gear is in a cabinet and there's only about 3.5" space between the top of my 3010 and the shelf above it. Granted that shelf has vent holes, it still gets pretty warm in there. This is not to say that the CX-A5000 won't run hot, I've had my share of dedicated preamps/pre-pros that ran fairly hot.

Over the weekend, I happened to install a mod'ed pc expansion slot vented fan that runs off one of the 12v triggers of the 3010 via a y-splitter as I'm running 2 amplifiers. The fan sits right above the 3010, and the vent runs to the back where it sucks the air out the rear of the cabinet. I had a Hobbit/LOTR marathon over the wekened (2 movies back-to-back each day). The fan kept the whole area cool and the 3010 was not even warm to the touch, whereas normally it is very warm and borderline hot. This is further keeping me from deciding on a CX-A5000. As I'm looking for a feature in the newer 30x0 units that isn't on my 3010, I think my money will go to a discounted 3020 if I can still find one, or maybe wait for next year when the 3030 goes on clearance. The idle internal amps sucking extra juice is also a concern, but I'm really having trouble now justifying the CX-A5000.
Edited by red_5ive - 7/1/13 at 1:06pm
post #68 of 2229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

If only the 3030 have a switch to power off the internal amp just like the higher end Pioneer receivers.

OT, but what Pioneer models?

The only time I've seen a feature like that is in the Denon 4311 and 4520... and those only cut signal to the amps, but do not disconnect power to them.
post #69 of 2229
2013 Pioneer SC series receivers. You can choose to use all, use your speaker configuration only, use your speaker config minus L/C/R, use your speaker config minus L/R or kill all internal amp.

SC71/72/75/77/79
post #70 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View PostYes definitely it can. You use the 9 channel amp from the 3030 and get a 2-ch amp for channels 10 and 11. You'll get all 11 channels running at the same time in no time!

How do you like the sound of the Yamaha?

post #71 of 2229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

2013 Pioneer SC series receivers. You can choose to use all, use your speaker configuration only, use your speaker config minus L/C/R, use your speaker config minus L/R or kill all internal amp.

SC71/72/75/77/79

I just looked at the SC-79 manual..

There seems to be no such option.....

Can you point me in the right direction?
post #72 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I just looked at the SC-79 manual..

There seems to be no such option.....

Can you point me in the right direction?

I have the Japanese master-manual and I currently have the SC-77 equivalent (pre-production sample) and it's there.

To kill the amp you need, you should go to the home menu and choose whether you use 5.1/7.1 etc and assign the rest as 2nd/3rd/4th zone then turn off zones 2-4.

After that you'll need to go to audio menu then go to AMP, and choose ON, or LR off, or LCR off, or OFF.
post #73 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

How do you like the sound of the Yamaha?

Honestly I like Yamaha for the DSP. For amplification I prefer my Parasound / Anthem / Pioneer D3. For room compensation I also like Pioneer's MCACC better than Yamaha YPAO + RSC.
post #74 of 2229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I have the Japanese master-manual and I currently have the SC-77 equivalent (pre-production sample) and it's there.

To kill the amp you need, you should go to the home menu and choose whether you use 5.1/7.1 etc and assign the rest as 2nd/3rd/4th zone then turn off zones 2-4.

After that you'll need to go to audio menu then go to AMP, and choose ON, or LR off, or LCR off, or OFF.

Thanks that helped me find it...

BTW.. it was on last years models also (never knew it existed there either. wink.gif)

Good to know.... thanks for the post.
post #75 of 2229
Yes, it's been there in one form or another since the beginning of SC series. On my Japanese model SC-25 I can kill the zones and for main-zone amp I can select only ON or OFF (but can't kill just the LR or LCR).
post #76 of 2229
I couldn't wait, pulled the trigger and pre-ordered the CX-A5000 from amazon as they are street pricing the same as my local audio guy. Nice thing is it also qualifies for the 12 month interest free payment plan if you use there card. Now to dig out my XLR cables and purchase a couple more from bluejeans cable for the additional channels and oppo BDP-95. Can't wait to get my hands on this unit.
post #77 of 2229
Congrats on the new purchase! Please report back here when you've received the item and played with it. Thanks!
post #78 of 2229
Oh hey! It's only $2,500 on Amazon.

Hmmm...

biggrin.gif


EDIT: Wow. Only a $300 difference between the 3030 and the 5000. Crrraaaappp! redface.gif
post #79 of 2229
I'm a cheap bastard. Only if it reaches $2K Canadian. smile.gif. I'm between that (or 3030) or the Pioneer SC-77.
post #80 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

OT, but what Pioneer models?

The only time I've seen a feature like that is in the Denon 4311 and 4520... and those only cut signal to the amps, but do not disconnect power to them.

The Yamaha DSP-Z7/RX-Z7 has the same feature.
post #81 of 2229
Can anyone tell me if there is a way to hook up two center Chanel's to a 3020? I only see one center channel terminal and precut but am interested in picking up a second clr 3000 and running two center channels from my front stage? Can I simply hook up two sets of speaker cable to the output speaker terminals of my external emotiva amp? Other ideas?
post #82 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The CX-A5000 is almost perfect but is a crime to not put XLR out's for the LFE. Wtf?

Still..... I want!

Makes no sense to me why they have no XLR for LFE, it is the channel most likely to benefit from XLR!
post #83 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Makes no sense to me why they have no XLR for LFE, it is the channel most likely to benefit from XLR!

Exactly. This and the need for eight extra channels of amplification is probably what will keep me from buying the 5000 and just getting the 3030 instead.
post #84 of 2229
Running 2 centre channel can easily ruin the sound imaging. Be very careful with the placement.
post #85 of 2229
I have a new RX-A820 Receiver an I am trying to get it to update the firmware. I have followed the directions by pressing straight button rapidly to bring up network or USB prompt and I can't get the prompt to display. I have tried both remote and button on the receiver. What am I doing wrong?
post #86 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Parys View Post

Can anyone tell me if there is a way to hook up two center Chanel's to a 3020? I only see one center channel terminal and precut but am interested in picking up a second clr 3000 and running two center channels from my front stage? Can I simply hook up two sets of speaker cable to the output speaker terminals of my external emotiva amp? Other ideas?

If running external amplification, you simply run an RCA splitter cable from the center pre-out, like this from Blue Jean Cables:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/subwoofer/index.htm
(Scroll down to - "One-foot Y cable, 1 Male/2 Female RCA $10.00").

Then connect two RCA cables from the splitter cable's "Y" end to two separate channels of amplification on your external amp.
Then from each of those to your two center speakers.
(But you may have to play with this set-up to get it right if they're more than 5 feet apart or so...).
post #87 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Makes no sense to me why they have no XLR for LFE, it is the channel most likely to benefit from XLR!

Agreed. The longest wire run will be the subwoofer, yet it's the only one without XLR connection. DOH!!!
post #88 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Exactly. This and the need for eight extra channels of amplification is probably what will keep me from buying the 5000 and just getting the 3030 instead.

I honestly don't see any reason for the pre-pro to cost more than the 3030. After all, the pre-pro IS a 3030 with additonal 10 DSP programs MINUS 9-ch amplifiers. (and the cost of XLR out is cheaper than a pair of the speaker terminals they use).

Using that (may be flawed) logic and being a cheap bastard, I'm waiting if I can get the pre-pro for $2K Canadian, max.
post #89 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View PostI honestly don't see any reason for the pre-pro to cost more than the 3030. After all, the pre-pro IS a 3030 with additonal 10 DSP programs MINUS 9-ch amplifiers. (and the cost of XLR out is cheaper than a pair of the speaker terminals they use).

Using that (may be flawed) logic and being a cheap bastard, I'm waiting if I can get the pre-pro for $2K Canadian, max.

It is called greed!

post #90 of 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

If running external amplification, you simply run an RCA splitter cable from the center pre-out, like this from Blue Jean Cables:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/subwoofer/index.htm
(Scroll down to - "One-foot Y cable, 1 Male/2 Female RCA $10.00").

Then connect two RCA cables from the splitter cable's "Y" end to two separate channels of amplification on your external amp.
Then from each of those to your two center speakers.
(But you may have to play with this set-up to get it right if they're more than 5 feet apart or so...).
Is there a way to do it from xlr connectors? Thanks for the response.
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