The hc5000 is from 2006.
hc5000 won't beat the Benq w1070 in 2D, oh it'll beat it in blacks in some scenes, but not by enough to care about IRIS blacks. The Benq easily beats it in most areas. I would never buy that OLD of an LCD with those ancient panels for that much IMO, it uses older panels and can suffer lots of problems, if you want an LCD, go for a refurb Epson to where you can exchange it if it has problems. This projector has very mediocre contrast to todays standards. Some of those older LCD's look washed out in a lot of scenes.
I wouldn't pay more than $400 for it.
Comparing the two I can't think of a single area the hc5000 beats the newer w1070, other than IRIS black levels on the hc5000 only rarely and not by enough to create a fuss. Color accuracy, sharpness, brightness, pixel fill / film like, and most things that matter are going to be a WIN for the 1070.
If going for blacks in used or refurb market, JVC RS-1/RS-2, or used or refurb Epson. Or if wanting to spend more, than the B-Stock JVC HD-250 from Mike@avscience.com Edited by coderguy - 6/1/13 at 5:59pm
Coderguy, I am sorry but your post is extremely misleading. I have seen the W1070 in action and it has nothing on the HC5000. Just because something is newer does not make it better. A 2013 honda is not better than a 2005 aston martin. Yes, the aston martin is 8 years older. Yes, the HC5000 uses c2fine D6 panels, versus c2fine D7 or newer, but the difference is negligible. The mitsubishi does not suffer from ANY of the problems that epson had mainly because they use a low wattage bulb with a much better cooling system. It matters much more how the panels are implemented, and let me tell you, mitsubishi has their engineering skills down. The benq is using a small budget lens, while the mitsubishi is using a high quality monstrous glass lens (its huge). Color, contrast, and especially sharpness are way better on the mitsubishi. Here are some screen shots off of Art's website and they do give you a pretty accurate comparison as far as sharpness and color saturation are concerned. It is of the HC5500 but the picture quality is the same as the HC5000. Tell me which one you prefer
those screenshots were taken years apart with different camera equipment, there is no possible way to draw a conclusion from those 2 screenshots.
I owned the 5500 for 2 years, it was a nice LCD projector for it's time. Epson 1080B and 6500 has noticeably better black levels. Color calibration was not great on the 5500 out of the box, but it did calibrate well. It had wide pixel spacing as typical for the LCD's which helps create a perception of extra sharpness. I had to return 3 copies due to un-even focus uniformity and poor convergence.
At one point I had 3 5500's in front of me, 1 had a good lens, the other had decent convergence. I took both apart and swapped the lens into the good chassis. Their support manager said no more swapping, so I did what I had to do.. It was crazy to have to go through that much work to get a good copy for $2500 in 2008.
Zombie, I posted those screenshots because they are pretty accurate to what I saw in person. I had an HC6000 and my convergence was near perfect. Sharpness uniformity was also near perfect. That picture of convergence would be unacceptable to me.
Coderguy, I am sorry but your post is extremely misleading. I have seen the W1070 in action and it has nothing on the HC5000. Just because something is newer does not make it better. A 2013 honda is not better than a 2005 aston martin. Yes, the aston martin is 8 years older. Yes, the HC5000 uses c2fine D6 panels, versus c2fine D7 or newer, but the difference is
It is my opinion, an opinion is not misleading since it is in fact just an OPINION, and we each have our opinions. I've seen the Mits projectors. I think my opinion would match what most of the rest of our opinions are, including Zombie's. They also have a wider pixel fill even then even the newer Epson panels. Yes it doesn't make a huge difference from the pixel fill itself compared to other LCD's, but the newer LCD panels don't look as washed out in bright scenes and they calibrate better.
My opinion is that I would rather own a Benq w1070 than an older Mits LCD, and I am pretty sure the hc7000 is even better than the hc5000, but the big problem with the Mits LCD's are how dim they are. The hc7000 needs a high power screen in a bad way even for a small screen, and it still looks washed out to me compared to the newer Epsons, even though the hc7000 would be sharper on average. If they weren't so freaking weak on brightness, then the hc7000 might be ok since it has better blacks than the other MITS's slightly. Edited by coderguy - 6/3/13 at 12:45am
The c2fine D6 is inorganic and does not suffer from panel degrading any more then the newer panels since they are made of the same materials. The HC7000 even uses c2fine D6 panels. At 400 calibrated lumens, that is more then enough for a dedicated theater at 100" diagonal. I would opt for the HC5000 over a budget DLP any day, but as you stated it is opinion.
This is on a brand new lamp, and actually I believe it was measured around 385 on LAMP HIGH, which is incredibly DIM compared to todays' standards.
On a 100" 1.0 gain screen, that is about 13 fL on a brand new lamp, you'll be below 12 fL before long, that's not optimal, but I know people in this forum will argue anything (even that 8 fL is plenty bright), of course later we find out most of those people were just measuring it wrong and didn't realize they were actually watching it brighter than they thought, or didn't really calibrate it precisely so they didn't lose as much brightness.
For someone buying USED on a budget, often does not make sense to buy such a DIM projector (considering how often they'll feel a need to replace the lamp). Edited by coderguy - 6/3/13 at 1:15am
This is an excellent review of the HC7000: http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsubishiHC7000/HC7000Test.htm Note the 2400:1 native on/off. It also has a high ansi contrast of 400:1 and with those contrast specs, should be visibly better then any budget DLP. Add a seamless iris and theres no competition. Yes brightness is a factor, but brightness is much over rated. In a dark room your eyes will adjust. I have seen a projector that put around 9 ftL at the screen and it left nothing to be desired as far as brightness. Again, its opinion. I own an HC5 and on eco with the iris fully closed the picture is still fantastic (400 lumens) and thats on my current 132" BOC screen.
The blacks aren't as good on the Benq as the hc7000, but the hc7000 blacks aren't great for an LCD either, 2400:1 is nothing to brag about.
The actual black level king in the new market under $1000 is the Acer 9500bd, but it has a very bouncy IRIS.
The Benq w1070 native on/off maxes out right about 2000:1 to 3000:1 (maybe a tad bit more in dynamic with the lamp dimmer), but lacks the IRIS like the Mits LCD's. This Benq is 3rd best in blacks for DLP under $1200 (behind the Mits hc4000 which is even farther behind the Acer 9500bd - only cause the Acer has an IRIS). It's hard to see the difference between 3000:1 (w1070) and 3800:1 (hc4000 - though believe it or not, you can when they are side-by-side on all black). Without a side-by-side, the Benq w1070 essentially has fairly similar contrast to the hc4000 (unless the hc4000 is mounted at farthest throw then it nudges it). I know this how, well because I setup a Mits hc4000 right next to the Benq w1070, and used the appropriate techniques to get the peak fL the same. My findings are also confirmed in this review: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-benq-w1070-3d-dlp-projector
Considering the w1070 costs almost half as much as the Benq w7000, yet the w1070 has at least double the native on/off (possibly triple depending where you mount the two PJ's), it's a steal. The w7000 can still beat it in blacks easily if you set the IRIS in the service menu to be more aggressive, but the w1070 is competitive OOTB in blacks with the w7000's default IRIS settings.
Back to the LCD, the Mits hc7000 easily beats all these in black levels, but my point was not by enough to really be a deciding factor. I'd like to see an IRIS easily comfortably break 10,000:1 on/off in a smooth transition to really be a deciding factor on blacks alone over a lower-end DLP. I think in the budget segment, most people would rather have a projector that is 3x brighter than one that has slightly better blacks with 1/3rd the brightness. Edited by coderguy - 6/3/13 at 6:22am
Wow, I had no idea this thread had taken on a life of its own after I abandoned it ...
Lots of great information and/or insight here, fellows, you've all given me a lot to think about and I very much appreciate it!
I just bought a new non-OEM bulb for my old Z3. I thought it would bring the picture back to life but I'm very surprised to see it didn't make much of a difference at all. (With my old Z1 replacing the bulb was like getting a new projector ... )
Anyway, after the new bulb fiasco, I'm back in the hunt for a new projector and the posts in this thread will come in very handy!