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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 93

post #2761 of 5678
1117 Is out will see how this works.
post #2762 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Standtall29 View Post

1117 Is out will see how this works.

Pulled Inputs and now downloading.
post #2763 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

PS3 Recommended Settings from me....

-Video Settings
Cinema Conversion - Auto - Default
BD/DVD Upscaler - Normal - Default
BD/DVD Video Output Format - Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr
1080P 24 Hz Output - Your preference - works nicely with 96Hz Film Mode on some Blurays and not so nice on others.
-Display Settings
RGB Range - Full - This is for gaming (TV Nominal Range set to NORMAL). Bluray/DVD uses Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr
Super Whites - On - Sends blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white video signals to the F8500 which supports it. This is an important setting prior to calibration of the TV.
Deep Color Output - Off - There are no Deep color Blurays/DVD's - and few games. Not worth turning on

When traversing from Smart Apps to PS3 to HTPC all levels are balanced, there is no need to have different TV calibration settings for the Smart Apps - black is black and white is white without clipping.

This is how I have mine setup. When playing Blurays, output is Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr and HDMI black level says normal and is greyed out so you can't change it. When watching video on netflix via the PS3, You have to have the PS3 set to RGB full and the HDMI black level set to normal for the brightness level to track with your bluray settings. I just confirmed this by playing the AVS709 disc I burned on the PS3 and comparing it to the MP4 version I copied to a USB drive that I plugged into the usb port on the PS3. What this shows is that video played on the PS3 that doesn't come from a disc is output as RGB and you have to either set the TN to low and the PS3 to limited to match, or put the PS3 on Full and then you can leave the Tv on normal. The one thing I noticed was that I lost my white information above 235 playing from the thumb drive no matter which way I configured RGB.
post #2764 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfilippello View Post

What this shows is that video played on the PS3 that doesn't come from a disc is output as RGB and you have to either set the TN to low and the PS3 to limited to match, or put the PS3 on Full and then you can leave the Tv on normal.

Exactly this. I don't know if video games use the whole color spectrum though.
post #2765 of 5678
one other thing I found. If I plug the USB thumb drive into the Samsung and pull it up as a source, and play the files, I get the full 250 white showing up. This was not the case playing the MP4 files from the PS3's usb port. Even with RGB set to full on PS3 and TV set to HDMI black level normal. For some reason, the PS3 wont display white above 235 off thumb drive.

I also reaffirmed my Elite looks way better with lower resolution sources. Tried to watch Farscape on the Samsung off Netflix via the PS3 and the picture was very poor. The show only plays at 480sd on Netflix. Same feed to my Elite looks way better. Must have something to do with the upscaler differences. I haven't set Netflix up on the Samsung directly to see if looks any different than the image coming from Netflix on the PS3. The PS3 is forced to output 1080p. Both TV's show 1080p source even though the actual video information from Netflix says 480sd?
post #2766 of 5678
One last question, Is the Samsung even capable of displaying blacker than black (0-16)?
post #2767 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfilippello View Post

One last question, Is the Samsung even capable of displaying blacker than black (0-16)?

I don't think so, which is why I suggest you don't use Full Range RGB or "Normal" HDMI Black Level.
post #2768 of 5678
Guys I want to buy this set but hear input lag is horrible even in game mode. And floating blacks are there. ZT60 better for gaming and watching directtv?
post #2769 of 5678
A neighbor picked up a 64 F8500 and Iam interested in taking some measurements and performing a calibration for him. Anything I should lookout for?

What gamma is everyone shooting for?
What window size patterns? APL?

Thanks in advance,
post #2770 of 5678
Quote:
Guys I want to buy this set but hear input lag is horrible even in game mode. And floating blacks are there. ZT60 better for gaming and watching directtv?

 

Is there anybody in this thread totally happy with their F8500?

No buzzing...no floating blacks...no excessive 3D crosstalk?

Let's hear some favorable reviews.
 

post #2771 of 5678
That would be me Ron. I'm 100% delighted with the 8500. I should mention though that I'm not a fan of 3D in general, so I never watch it. This has nothing to do with the 8500, I'm just not a fan of 3D.

I find the black levels superb and have not observed floating blacks.
post #2772 of 5678
Same here. There was one firmware update that caused my picture to look terrible, but the last update has made my picture look amazing. So now I'm 100% satisfied with the F8500, and I had a ZT60 before the F8500. My favorite thing, besides the amazing picture quality, no stubborn image retention. I got burn in within a month on the ZT60 just from accessing my satellite guide. Before that, I had a VT50 and the F8500 blows the VT50 away.

Also, gaming lag is not an issue. Not sure why people think it is, but on mine it is the same as the ZT60 was. I press a button and it reacts immediately, not an issue at all.
post #2773 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

I don't think so, which is why I suggest you don't use Full Range RGB or "Normal" HDMI Black Level.

This is where everything gets messy wink.gif

There are many ways to skin this cat but after a lot of research here's my logic:

Gaming only (not watching movies) is done in RGB Full. Gaming and disc movie watching are two separate entities regards to colorspace if you set your PS3 correctly.-

For movie watching all disc material, Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr with Superwhites on is the only thing you need to set on the PS3 - the TV's HDMI black level will be grayed out and be set correctly (when playing the disc).
Calibrate from here using a calibration disc in the PS3.

For gaming, set RGB to 0-255 Full on the PS3 and HDMI Normal on the TV to make 0 black and 255 white. Doing so you will have a larger gamut than 16 black to 235 white.
PS3 games are encoded in in the full range of 0-255.

Setting 16-235 Limited on the PS3 and Low on the TV creates the same black and white 'points' compared to 0-255 (flick them both over yourselves to compare and see) but you are loosing some gamut as you are squeezing in all the range into a smaller subset (16-235). You are also adding a compression conversion stage to the processing which the PS3 has to do.

Essentially if you have the console set to output 16-235 video levels for gaming then the native range of the game is compressed so 0 becomes 16 and 255 becomes 235. Sure it works but I'd rather not force the conversion and I would rather see the whole gamut that the game was encoded in.


Either way, gaming Full/Normal or Limited/Low you'll be getting the same blacks and the same whites and will be okay to play.

It's your call.
Edited by pieandchips - 1/2/14 at 11:19am
post #2774 of 5678
Yes I am 100 % happy with my 64f8500. I have no floating blacks, no crosstalk in 3D, no buzzing I just think this is one incredible set and I owned a kuro at one time and I think this tv picks up on a lot more detail then my kuro. One thing I do have too say is this set has the best 3D that I have seen yet my wife even agrees with me
post #2775 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Pulled Inputs and now downloading.

Was there any update to this?
post #2776 of 5678
So gaming is fine on this tv? Is game mode better then renaming hdmi to pc or vice versa
post #2777 of 5678
Quote:
Love you guys for the past few very positive reviews -- particularly on the 3D

 

Gives me more confidence that my trade-in of the ZT60 for the F8500 will be a positive one.


Thank you, guys.

 

Anybody else with positive reviews across the board -- please chime in.

post #2778 of 5678
I find gaming really acceptable, no noticeable lag on my tv and compares well with the Panasonics. The only setting I have for gaming is labelling the HDMI input to game. I don't use the PC mode and I don't turn game mode on, just change the HDMI input label to Game.
post #2779 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Was there any update to this?

Did you read the quote above my posting? The 1117 is now available. Before updating, I removed all my Inputs to prevent issues. This a Samsung recommendation.to remove any possible problems before hand. One of the members posted something out of the manual to this affect.
post #2780 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Did you read the quote above my posting? The 1117 is now available. Before updating, I removed all my Inputs to prevent issues. This a Samsung recommendation.to remove any possible problems before hand. One of the members posted something out of the manual to this affect.

I meant was there an update to 1117. Meaning, how did it work? Any PQ update?
post #2781 of 5678
Will someone whose OCD about ABL please comment on the 64F8500s ABL.

I currently have a 65VT50 and ABL is fairly aggressive. I'd rather not experience the same thing again....even if I have to go LED.
post #2782 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

Is there anybody in this thread totally happy with their F8500?


No buzzing...no floating blacks...no excessive 3D crosstalk?


Let's hear some favorable reviews.

 

I'm good with two out of the three. The buzzing is insignificant, though I am now a believer in that it has to do with room acoustics because the previous Panasonic plasma I had in there never buzzed either until we moved it into another room (though the buzz on Samsung products is more high-pitched and more annoying). i don't have any floating blacks, either. I do have 3D crosstalk, though.

My TV is a gem. It wasn't for about ten days when I had that unfavorable 1116 update, but the right steps took care of things and I'm back in business. I can remedy the input lag a bit by turning on Game Mode and changing the HDMI source name to Game, but it's still not as good as my D7000.

Yes though, I love this TV.

Jim, I don't actually know if ABL is any different than good ol' "brightness pops," but I haven't seen such a thing on this screen ever. I watch a lot of San Jose Sharks hockey, too. Please don't take my word for it, though. Ask others who might be more well-informed, but that's my conclusion (as I do see things on my D7000 after stupidly updating it).
post #2783 of 5678
1117 update:

I have been away the last ten days and came home, hurriedly updated the TV to the latest version FW.

*Without performing the TV reset I have noticed an improved PQ - things have taken on more clarity. This is not placebo*


Black levels 'seem' blacker - I visually can see black optimizer do it's thing 'more' if I flick from a regular picture to all black, you see BO flick down to darker in two distinct notches just less than a second apart.
My TV was not doing this very well prior to the FW upgrade so I suspect there was a bug in BO recently that affected a lot of us and that's why blacks appear better now.

I have lots of other things to do and some guests around so I don't know when I can get the meter out to do some black measurements but I hope soon.
post #2784 of 5678
Pie - What FW were you on prior to 1117?
post #2785 of 5678
1115
post #2786 of 5678
I wonder if owners can use the test I performed above to see if their FW has taken hold properly. Maybe that would work as a baseline measurement? With BO set to dark room play complete black full screen and flick between a menu and back and see if BO kicks in twice to darken. If it does not perform the factory reset and test.
post #2787 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Will someone whose OCD about ABL please comment on the 64F8500s ABL.

I currently have a 65VT50 and ABL is fairly aggressive. I'd rather not experience the same thing again....even if I have to go LED.

I was probably the first one to comment on the ABL differences between the 8500 and the Panasonics. When comparing the two, it was hard to miss the better rendering of bright scenes on the 8500. This created a greater dynamic range, despite the slightly better black levels of the ZT 60.

To my eyes the slight differences in black levels was a very good trade off relative to the visually better dynamic range of the 8500.

I did not find this difference to be subtle, yet I did find the black level differences subtle.
post #2788 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Going a little of topic for those wanting ever better PQ, invest in a Darbee. I have mine set to 35 and it makes a great improvement on what is an already excellent picture. IMO.

Wow Pie! I'm supremely surprised to hear you say this. I'd have taken you for more of a purist. I also use one and couldn't evangelize it more. I do sometimes need to shut it off for lower quality media, but I try to avoid that media if at all possible. While it may not be the picture as intended by the director, it produces a picture that is just more pleasing to me. I currently keep mine set in HD mode to 55-60 for gaming and 45 for everything else. I don't see it adding any appreciable lag either. The only problem I've had is the occasional handshake issue. I wonder if this thing supports firmware updates.
post #2789 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

That would be me Ron. I'm 100% delighted with the 8500. I should mention though that I'm not a fan of 3D in general, so I never watch it. This has nothing to do with the 8500, I'm just not a fan of 3D.

I find the black levels superb and have not observed floating blacks.

I agree. I couldn't be happier with my set. The only concern I had was input lag, but with the input name change trick, I find it more than acceptable. As far as 3d is concerned, I have no problem with turning CS on for 3d. It's the proper way to handle 24 fps video anyway. I don't see any flicker, and no pops, maybe there is a slight bit of crosstalk, but not enough to distract me. Also mine doesn't buzz enough for me to hear over my avr.
post #2790 of 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Wow Pie! I'm supremely surprised to hear you say this. I'd have taken you for more of a purist. I also use one and couldn't evangelize it more. I do sometimes need to shut it off for lower quality media, but I try to avoid that media if at all possible. While it may not be the picture as intended by the director, it produces a picture that is just more pleasing to me. I currently keep mine set in HD mode to 55-60 for gaming and 45 for everything else. I don't see it adding any appreciable lag either. The only problem I've had is the occasional handshake issue. I wonder if this thing supports firmware updates.
biggrin.gif

It's only when you've seen one do its' thing, that you can appreciate the effect.
I think it adds more depth, especially if it's on oh-so-gently. 35 is the sweet spot for me. Any higher and things like faces with pock marks and wrinkles look a bit too defined.
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