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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 101

post #3001 of 5618
Warranty Claim or (what I would do) is get a refund. You don't want the demo model with Pixel problems. Then you can take the time to find the right panel - not one they push you into.
post #3002 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

hhp.

Keep us posted on your F8500 impressions.  Most interested.

The F series is much better than the 51" C8000 series plasma I tried before settling on the LN55C630.

1. No IR yet - I've been playing videos on youtube and tried the browser. I got scared with the C8000 as it got IR easily.
2. Better filter and black levels. The C8000 glowed more than the LCD. Maybe it was defective
3. Buzzing - the C8000 buzzed a lot worse
post #3003 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post


I thought the same in early 2013, but then they did finally deliver on a 55" panel. I am hesitant to believe much of what they say at CES, so it'll be interesting come summer as to how far along they are.

Yes, but the one they are selling now is not as good as the OLED they had 3 years ago at CES in my opinion. Which never came to the market. Can we expect to see this in production by 2017?

post #3004 of 5618
I didn't get to see the one at CES unfortunately. I presume that one was manufactured using the RGB method since it was an earlier prototype. I can't imagine they're putting much investment in that method when the WOLED scheme has them on the path to higher yields.
post #3005 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Did they say anything about price?

If so, how much?
I am guessing , a pure guess at $15K to $20K on the street.
post #3006 of 5618
I'm taking possession of a new PN64F500 tomorrow morning. Planning on integrating it into my home theater. This is my first Smart TV so I'm wondering the best way to return the audio from the TV to my AV receiver (Denon 4311). Should I use the HDMI ARC (audio return channel), which is (presumably) supported by both the Denon 4311 and the F8500? Or should I run a separate digital optical audio cable from the TV to the AV Receiver? I've never used the HDMI ARC functionality so I don't know how well it works. One less cable would be ideal but I don't mind running out to buy another optical cable if that solution will work better. Any advice? Thanks in advance.
post #3007 of 5618
How many users use the F8500's cable management system when watching cable from their STB/cable box? How well does it work? I'm trying to determine if there's any point running the output of my cable STB to the TV and using the TV's interface versus operating the STB box directly and outputting it to the TV (via my AV receiver). What are the advantages/disadvantages of using the F8500 vs the STB? PVR functions? Guide/schedule functions?

Thanks!
post #3008 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

Yup...

It has been rescheduled for Friday.
Um, how come there was no follow-up post from you yet! First impressions, delivery process, good move, bad move, etc.? I feel like we have been watching your TV life unfold on AVS only for you to leave us hanging at the end! I need to know how this story ends!!!!!
post #3009 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Um, how come there was no follow-up post from you yet! First impressions, delivery process, good move, bad move, etc.? I feel like we have been watching your TV life unfold on AVS only for you to leave us hanging at the end! I need to know how this story ends!!!!!

Man....take a chill pill.

It was only a few hours ago. smile.gif
post #3010 of 5618

I am also awaiting his opinion.....

post #3011 of 5618

I am sorry guys...

 

I work a very strange schedule.  The delivery came yesterday evening shortly before it was time for me to turn in.

 

The delivery guys were unbelievable.  They expertly packed up my ZT60 and completely set up my F8500 with stand.

 

Gotta give immense credit to Value Electronics and the service they provided.

 

The display went from warm store to a heated van, so I was able to turn on the F8500 immediately.

 

I don't want to comment on picture impressions yet.  I only had a few short minutes to really look at the picture.  Haven't even attempted 3D.

 

Going to spend several hours tomorrow (Sunday) looking at broadcast, Blu-ray and 3D Blu-ray.

 

All I can tell you thus far is that I didn't notice any buzzing from the panel. That is just a quick assessment.   I also was a bit disheartened by how dim the panel initially look, that is, until I took it out of STANDARD mode and put it in MOVIE mode.  The display went from "ZT60 dim" to "Holy Cow bright."

 

I promise to report back tomorrow...but you guys could do me a favor...

 

I hate to go back and read every single page in this thread.

 

Could any of you provide me with the Cliffnotes version of all the necessary settings I need to make on this display to make it look perfect.

 

Any initial tips with dealing with anything else would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

post #3012 of 5618

Some initial impressions and concerns....

 

...but I need to say that I am not unhappy with the exchange I made.  I think that there are some tweaks that I am going to have to make in order to get this display perfect.

 

First, for broadcast HD television, I am very happy with the amount of "picture pop" this display provides.  The ZT60 was just too soft.

 

That being said, I find Blu-ray movies to be a bit problematic...

 

(Everything I am describing is in MOVIE mode)

 

First, I watched some scenes from Mary Poppins.  Don't laugh -- I just saw the new Blu-ray about two weeks ago and was familiar with how it looked.

 

The black levels in Mr. Banks suit were spot on with the blacks on the ZT60.  Very, very inky.  To my eye, the blacks are identical.

 

That being said, the movie had a "video" look to it.  Not a "film" look.  It was if I was watching a stage play.  Had an artificial feel to it.

 

So, I need to find out how to get that picture looking more cinematic.

 

 

Next....

 

 

Put in my favorite reference disc, The Dark Knight.

 

Saw an immediate problem the second the film goes into IMAX ratio in the very first scene.  It's a helicopter shot of gotham skyscrapers.  As the scene immediately cuts in, you can see "waves" going across the buildings. It is there for just seconds and then gone.  There is some kind of anomaly going on.  

 

Also, as you get closer to the display, you can see what can best be described as grain structure being introduced into the picture, floating on its own, that is not part of the film's grain structure.

 

 

I am guessing the reasons why I am seeing these problems is because I haven't adjusted the picture settings.  This is where some of you can be of assistance.

 

I am going to spend some time tomorrow looking at 3D and get back to all of you.

 

(PS:  Do have to find out how to eliminate the dropdown information bar that appears every time the resolution changes)

post #3013 of 5618

Spoke with AVS member Konika Tech on the phone this afternoon.  Great guy -- appreciate him reaching out to me.

 

We made some adjustments in my menu.  Turned off motion jutter control.

 

At first, I thought it solved the "wave" issue in The Dark Knight opening scene.  But, just having put the disc in again, the "wave" anomaly is still there.

 

Will work on that.

 

However...

 

3D?  Miles above the ZT60.  It's night and day BETTER.  My God, I have never seen 3D as good as this display outputs.  Of course, the reason is because of light output.  On the ZT60 it was hard making out details in image.

 

No crosstalk whatsoever.

 

Again, the only drawback is that everything looks like a video game.  AVATAR looks like a video game.  Put in PACIFIC RIM and that has a very processed video look as well.  However, 3D is extremely pronounced.  This is off the charts for 3D.

 

...and this is with the cheap Samsung glasses that come in the box.

 

I am getting the $50 Samsung glasses from Amazon tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how well those do.

 

I am not particularly worried about this.  This seems to be the better display -- especially for picture punch, brightness and sharpness.

 

Best of all, it has all the black levels the ZT60 boasts.  I can't tell the difference in the blacks.  

 

I will come back with more impressions tomorrow.

post #3014 of 5618
^ Turn all lights off and pull up a full black screen.You'll see how 'black' the set is wink.gif
post #3015 of 5618
Turn off Cinema smooth. I hate it. It gives it that soap opera effect. Sounds like that it what you are seeing.
post #3016 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ Turn all lights off and pull up a full black screen.You'll see how 'black' the set is wink.gif


That's being supportive. rolleyes.gif
post #3017 of 5618
updated to 1117 and did a factory reset. things look much better now. OTA looks a lot closer. It's weird. Close up shots look sharper on the F8500 and distant shots look sharper on the kuro. (Todd, my Kuro is a pro1150-hd 50" 720p *G set) Using Standard mode to watch OTA. Have Mpeg and Digital clean view set to low. Warm2 and color space auto.

Ronald, I find Standard much brighter than Movie. I have Cell Light set at 13 and Contrast set to 83 brightness set at 46. Going to recheck these now with my AVS709 disc. By contrast, Movie mode is cell light 18, contrast 96 and brightness 48.

I noticed that in Standard mode, if I don't turn the contrast down, it gives me changing black levels on one of the test patterns. The one that displays a grey scale in the lower right corner of solid black with a 75% white screen that changes in increasing brightness. If I dont turn down the contrast, I can see changes in black level on the two brightest screens versus just the brightest. Is this what is described as ABL?

Mike
post #3018 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

That's being supportive. rolleyes.gif

HA!

Well the set excels in a light room that's why I have one.
post #3019 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

That's being supportive. rolleyes.gif
Maybe that's keeping it real?

Owning a VT60 and having an interest in an 8500 I would much rather people be honest then saying the blacks are equal to the ZT60.
post #3020 of 5618
^ Our viewing preference is in light, not a blacked out room, so IMO the F8500 is superior to the VT/ZT.
I've viewed all three - VT/ZT/F8500 professionally calibrated and in viewing situations I could adjust ambient light and I made my choice.
You really don't see the black deficiencies in a room that has just a bit of light in it,- all blacks look as inky as they could ever be, and that's all that matters. Floating blacks or the fact the VT/ZT can show blacker play no part any more.

Much better in a light room at 38+ fL.
Better ABL than the Panasonics.
It has better/brighter 3D.
It can now officially game well so I'd mark that as better too as you can really accentuate things.
It 'looks' way nicer - a much cooler frame.

etc etc.

Just my 2c.
post #3021 of 5618
The ZT can be calibrated to match that with little in the way of compromise (reported by Chad B)...the less obvious ABL is the only feather in your cap. I'm okay with that compromise and the better blacks.
post #3022 of 5618
Well that's where things get messy then wink.gif

It's all about what you can see in a 'light' room. Darker blacks simply become a moot point so ill add another feather. Plus gaming. Plus 3D. I make that a few more feathers wink.gif
post #3023 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Turn off Cinema smooth. I hate it. It gives it that soap opera effect. Sounds like that it what you are seeing.

Say what?

Ron, don't turn off Cinema Smooth for 2D. leave it on. There is zero soap-opera effect with it. I think wxman is thinking of Motion Judder Canceler or whatever.

Turn it off for 3D though, unless you want to be nauseous.

No crosstalk, though? Fantastic! What FW is it on?
post #3024 of 5618
Naturally, it's horses for courses...

If I viewed in a dark environment, then I would completely consider the Panasonics to make black as dark as possible.
post #3025 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

Say what?

Ron, don't turn off Cinema Smooth for 2D. leave it on. There is zero soap-opera effect with it. I think wxman is thinking of Motion Judder Canceler or whatever.

Turn it off for 3D though, unless you want to be nauseous.
\


No no no wink.gif

Cinema Smooth is not good IMO. It adds way too many movement artifacts for me. 59/24Hz, just yuck.
post #3026 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

\


No no no wink.gif

Cinema Smooth is not good IMO. It adds way too many movement artifacts for me.

For 2D or 3D?

For 2D it is fantastic. It will have that stutter every so often (still can't decide why), but it's minimal and rare. If I turn Film Mode off, there is a flicker that just won't work while watching Blu-rays. It needs to remain on.

For 3D, it does as you described... too many movement artifacts, too much flicker, and colors distort.
post #3027 of 5618
I am referring to 2D. I really can't live with it. The stutter is a frame skip and that's just one of the problems with it.
post #3028 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

Spoke with AVS member Konika Tech on the phone this afternoon.  Great guy -- appreciate him reaching out to me.

We made some adjustments in my menu.  Turned off motion jutter control.

At first, I thought it solved the "wave" issue in The Dark Knight opening scene.  But, just having put the disc in again, the "wave" anomaly is still there.

Will work on that.

However...

3D?  Miles above the ZT60.  It's night and day BETTER.  My God, I have never seen 3D as good as this display outputs.  Of course, the reason is because of light output.  On the ZT60 it was hard making out details in image.

No crosstalk whatsoever.

Again, the only drawback is that everything looks like a video game.  AVATAR looks like a video game.  Put in PACIFIC RIM and that has a very processed video look as well.  However, 3D is extremely pronounced.  This is off the charts for 3D.

...and this is with the cheap Samsung glasses that come in the box.

I am getting the $50 Samsung glasses from Amazon tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how well those do.

I am not particularly worried about this.  This seems to be the better display -- especially for picture punch, brightness and sharpness.

Best of all, it has all the black levels the ZT60 boasts.  I can't tell the difference in the blacks.  

I will come back with more impressions tomorrow.
That's what I noticed with both of those movies. They looked like a video game. Must be the the CG. For me it was hard to focus on the f8500 with 3D. Didn't seem as smooth as the vt60 or zt60. It like a blur, so I figured it was crosstalk I was seeing. Glad your loving the 3D on this set. Sounds like you made a great decision going with this set. Keep it coming my friend.
post #3029 of 5618
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

I am referring to 2D. I really can't live with it.

I'm surprised that any 'purist' would accept 60Hz (which is "video," mind you) would be an acceptable playback format for any Blu-rays that are shot at ~24 FPS. 3:2 pulldown is simply unacceptable.

It's not even placebo to me anymore. Sometimes on my D7000 I'll watch a 3D movie (in which case I set Film Mode to Off) and forget to change it back to Cinema Smooth after I finish. Then I'll pop in some other movie at another time and wonder what the hell is going on with the motion of everything, why there is a bit of a flicker or whatever I'd call it. It might take me seconds to minutes before realizing that Film Mode is still Off. Setting it to CS resolves everything.

The same would be said on my F8500 if I watched 3D on it, but I don't because of the crosstalk. However, I did the same tests with it. CS kills for 2D, and in a good way.

Ron, have you tried watching The Dark Knight with Film Mode set to Cinema Smooth to see if there is still that wave effect? Furthermore, is your Blu-ray player set to enable 1080p/24 when activated?
post #3030 of 5618
Being called a purist I'll take as a compliment wink.gif You're the second person to do that.

Cinema Smooth was designed to work with both 60 and 24Hz, hence the function being available for both modes.
I don't know what Samsung are doing but since the TV came out I've seen CS performance go up and down like a yoyo. It's the edge motion artifacts I still can't deal with, do you not see them? Edges (some not all) break up into a mass of pixels trying to catch up.

For 24Hz I honestly prefer Film Mode (96Hz) but that's only on certain flicks and not all.
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