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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 23

post #661 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

I saw a VT60 at Magnolia in it's own little demo room that had severe permanent burn-in. It was playing a full screen blu-ray but the burn-in was clearly visible on lighter scenes. It's certainly not just older generations of plasma. Are you saying Samsung has done something here regarding burn-in that Panasonic's latest gen has not? If so, has this been discussed anywhere already?

When I was researching the big three (VT, ZT & F8500) I saw a couple of reviews that mentioned they saw IR issues on the Panasonic but not Samsung units. I forget which review sites they were on though, sorry. Regardless though any plasma can run into IR.
post #662 of 5659
After updating to the latest firmware 1105 I notice that when changing the motion judder from off to standard there is a one second screen black out. This did not happen before. Dont notice any difference in PQ though. The TV continues to be marvelous as it was
post #663 of 5659
Picking up my 60F8500 today!! Going to wall mount it. If possible could owners who have mounted their TV send suggestions on which mounts have worked best for them.
Thanks in advance.
post #664 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

I saw a VT60 at Magnolia in it's own little demo room that had severe permanent burn-in.
It may indeed have been burn in, but I bet it was not burned in. We would have to loop some content for a few days to be sure. That is not a fair statement. Many nights I have fallen asleep to see my DVD menu up and running in the AM. I looked at an a all black screen and I thought I toasted my set. Lopped a DVD for 8 hours, gone........ That was an older Hitachi.
post #665 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

What you're arguing is who cares, as long as you vary what you watch, static content and black bars for hours at a time is just fine during the initial hours of a plasma's life. Because of that, I can go through that period as slow as I like.

Well, most of the rest of us are a little more cautious about what we do during this period- and there's really no reason not to play it safe when it only takes a few weeks. I think you'll find that if you stretch this few hundred hour break in over the course of a few months most folks will get antsy and starting watching material they probably shouldn't at that stage. Lo and behold...

Running slides gets you through that initial aging faster, period. There's no arguing this, there's no "whatever makes you comfortable"- it is what it is. There's no magic, no personal opinion that it "works" or doesn't. 100% of the time, it will get you through initial aging of your panel faster. Every time.

Either you want to take months to do this, or you'd prefer to do it in a matter of weeks. That's all there is to it.

Your are getting a bit over the top with this. I never said 'who cares' and I specifically said 'vary content'. I did not say 'watch static logos, letter-boxed movies' etc. for hours at a time without varying content'. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I specifically said to vary the material you watch. Do you realize that most people do not use slides and most people do not have burn-in? Why do you think that is?

However long it takes, I'm enjoying my display and the colors are gorgeous. Perhaps if the default Movie settings with some tweaks to contrast, brightness & gamma didn't look so good, it would bother me. But the standard Movie settings are so good, it puts absolutely no pressure on me to rush the process. I'm having a hell of a time enjoying my display. What's wrong with that?

I've already agreed that running slides gets you through the aging process faster....IF that's what you choose to do. Many of us don't. Again, what's wrong with that if we're thoroughly enjoying our display in the interim? I just don't get your 'my way or the highway' approach to this. I've had many plasmas and never ever used slides. And guess what? I've never had burn-in on any of my plasmas and some of those were when burn-in was far far easier to get than it is today. Why? Because I've used common sense during break-in as most of us here do that choose not to use slides. Nothing magical here.

Use whatever approach you choose, but don't condemn others for doing it their way. BTW, I've never seen a single manufacturer recommend running slides during break-in. wink.gif
post #666 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

I saw a VT60 at Magnolia in it's own little demo room that had severe permanent burn-in. It was playing a full screen blu-ray but the burn-in was clearly visible on lighter scenes. It's certainly not just older generations of plasma. Are you saying Samsung has done something here regarding burn-in that Panasonic's latest gen has not? If so, has this been discussed anywhere already?

I've seen burn-in on many Panasonics too. But to be fair, the retailer chose to leave on ESPN for 12 hours a day. I tend to think Panasonics are more prone to IR than the Samsungs, but if you leave on a station like ESPN for 12 hours a day, you're asking for trouble with any display, whether you broke it in with slides or broke it in the way many of us here do, just watching content.

CNET did an 'accidental' test of burn-in on two Panasonics and one Samsung that they were testing for other reasons. When they left for the night, something happened that caused the Blu Ray player to revert to the menu until they came back the next day. The two Panasonics showed IR and the Samsung showed none. They were able to clean most of the IR from one of the Panasonics, but not the other. So apparently, at least with those models, the Panasonics were obviously more prone to IR than the Samsung.
post #667 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

After updating to the latest firmware 1105 I notice that when changing the motion judder from off to standard there is a one second screen black out. This did not happen before. Dont notice any difference in PQ though. The TV continues to be marvelous as it was

Hali, wasn't there an issue with changing the motion judder setting from off to something else? I somehow recall some mentioned the motion was a bit weird until you went back in to the menu and changed it again...or something like that. So I'm wondering if that's now fixed and that momentary black out is indicative of that change. I seem to recall my Kuro or Sony had a temporary 'black out' when a menu change for motion was selected.
post #668 of 5659
All this running slides talk, as annoying as that argument is, raises the question of why don't manufacturers offer slides? If they believe that it is crucial or at least beneficial to save them from damage o there displays early on. They could offer a download link to there official website. Or better yet have it built into the tv menu. Go into menu select it and it runs until you exit. After all Samsung has blue built in for calibrating add red and green on a loop.
post #669 of 5659
I have been following all the F8500 threads from their inception and just joined the forum today because I just got my own 8500. Mostly, I watch TV (cable and streaming) and, to a lesser degree, watch movies (disk & streaming). I have always favored LED over plasma because of brightness. But, the 8500 seems to have the best of both worlds. So,...I took a leap of faith. I would like to achieve the highest level of brightness while watching TV without losing noticeable color and sharpness detail. Right or wrong set aside, I'm not a strict purist but, I would like to receive the maximum viewing benefit based on my non-purist like for brightness. Can you guys recommend certain "settings" that may come the closest to what I would like to achieve? I'm looking for a good starting point and, from there I suppose I can adjust them if need be. I assume for watching movies that I would want have it set to "Movie" mode? As to watching TV, would it be too much to go with "Standard"? BTW: For the most part, my lighting conditions can be controlled. As an aside, many thanks to all of you who have shared your knowledge - it does not go unnoticed nor un-appreciated!
post #670 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Your are getting a bit over the top with this. I never said 'who cares' and I specifically said 'vary content'. I did not say 'watch static logos, letter-boxed movies' etc. for hours at a time without varying content'. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I specifically said to vary the material you watch. Do you realize that most people do not use slides and most people do not have burn-in? Why do you think that is?

However long it takes, I'm enjoying my display and the colors are gorgeous. Perhaps if the default Movie settings with some tweaks to contrast, brightness & gamma didn't look so good, it would bother me. But the standard Movie settings are so good, it puts absolutely no pressure on me to rush the process. I'm having a hell of a time enjoying my display. What's wrong with that?

I've already agreed that running slides gets you through the aging process faster....IF that's what you choose to do. Many of us don't. Again, what's wrong with that if we're thoroughly enjoying our display in the interim? I just don't get your 'my way or the highway' approach to this. I've had many plasmas and never ever used slides. And guess what? I've never had burn-in on any of my plasmas and some of those were when burn-in was far far easier to get than it is today. Why? Because I've used common sense during break-in as most of us here do that choose not to use slides. Nothing magical here.

Use whatever approach you choose, but don't condemn others for doing it their way. BTW, I've never seen a single manufacturer recommend running slides during break-in. wink.gif

No need to put words in your mouth. If you can tell me how you watch letterbox movies without doing it for hours at a time let me know.

No condemning here; you seem to forget this little back and forth started with you saying that slides serve no purpose, when they clearly do- whether you care to use them or not is another matter.
post #671 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post


No need to put words in your mouth. If you can tell me how you watch letterbox movies without doing it for hours at a time let me know.

No condemning here; you seem to forget this little back and forth started with you saying that slides serve no purpose, when they clearly do- whether you care to use them or not is another matter.
One thing is clear, you are extraordinarily presumptuous for a new comer to AVS. At least one well known professional calibrator who recommends using slides to prep a new display for his settings makes it clear that they have no value at all for preventing image retention or burn-in.

*****Note: This procedure is designed to prepare your display for the reference settings listed for each 2013 North American Panasonic model below by aging all pixels equally with the same content. This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention.*****

D-Nice

Another well known professional calibrator, who doesn't post settings, agrees that slides are of no more use for a display than watching a mix of normal viewing material as long as you don't spend excessive periods of time with the same fixed image on the screen, or watch nothing but movies with an aspect ratio of 2.35:1 on a 1.78:1 (16x9) screen. Good judgment is the key.

This is how I've mixed what we watch.
post #672 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

One thing is clear, you are extraordinarily presumptuous for a new comer to AVS. At least one well known professional calibrator who recommends using slides to prep a new display for his settings makes it clear that they have no value at all for preventing image retention or burn-in.

*****Note: This procedure is designed to prepare your display for the reference settings listed for each 2013 North American Panasonic model below by aging all pixels equally with the same content. This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention.*****

D-Nice

Another well known professional calibrator, who doesn't post settings, agrees that slides are of no more use for a display than watching a mix of normal viewing material as long as you don't spend excessive periods of time with the same fixed image on the screen, or watch nothing but movies with an aspect ratio of 2.35:1 on a 1.78:1 (16x9) screen. Good judgment is the key.

This is how I've mixed what we watch.

I fail to see what being a newcomer has to do with anything other than being a lame, tired old fallback.

The same calibrator you quote also agrees that slides are useful in speeding up the process safely in the first couple hundred hours, which is all I've ever said here, nothing about preventing burn in. I couldn't have made that more clear in each of my posts.

I'd rather put 2-300 hours on my set safely in a matter of weeks, not months. Slides have this benefit. Period. No more, no less.

Though in D-Nice's case, he does provide reference settings for some sets which the slides will more evenly prepare your panel for, but that's not really what's been discussed here.
Edited by nfraso - 7/13/13 at 10:29pm
post #673 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I advise people to use the break-in DVD/Slides for a very specific reason based on the hard data that I've accumulated (and it has absolutely nothing to do with IR/Burn-in prevention). If you choose not to do the break-in with a DVD or slides, thats your choice. However, respect those who do choose to do it.
post #674 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

I fail to see what being a newcomer has to do with anything other than being a lame, tired old fallback.
Almost without exception, newcomers do not carry the attitude that you've exhibited. It's something like what folks say in Real Estate, "Location! Location! Location!" Just substitute the "A" word, watch how you exhibit it, and you'll do fine.

Enjoy.
post #675 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Almost without exception, newcomers do not carry the attitude that you've exhibited. It's something like what folks say in Real Estate, "Location! Location! Location!" Just substitute the "A" word, watch how you exhibit it, and you'll do fine.

Enjoy.

"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument. Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy, more precisely an irrelevance."


More from D-Nice spelling the purpose of slides out very clearly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Yep back to the uneven aging, but beyond the most volatile time of a plasma's life. Again, the dvd/slides have their purpose, but it is not for IR/Burn-in prevention or any other myth. Use them if you plan on using my free settings or to evenly age the phosphors during the first 1xx hours of its lifetime. Its not going to hurt anything beyond your own patience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

It is meant for those who want a fast and easy way to put hours on the panel before calibration, those who intend on using my posted setting, and/or those who just prefer to evenly age all phosphors during the first 1xx hours of the panel's life.
post #676 of 5659
hey guys...any recs on a tv stand for the pn64f8500? price range ~ under 1000. thanks!!
Edited by lohajat112 - 7/14/13 at 11:06am
post #677 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument. Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy, more precisely an irrelevance."
As your behavior points out, it's very possible to posit valid arguments in a disrespectful manor. I also enjoyed the logic course that I took. Try your best to enjoy the company here at AVS. smile.gif
post #678 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

As your behavior points out, it's very possible to posit valid arguments in a disrespectful manor. I also enjoyed the logic course that I took. Try your best to enjoy the company here at AVS. smile.gif

The only thing disrespectful in this conversation- in fact the only direct personal reference came from you, quoted below. Calm down, buddy. You have no way of inferring attitude from text-based posts, so assumptions are not necessary. All of this is completely irrelevant to technical discussion which could actually put you into the position of being presumptuous. wink.gif Let's please move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

One thing is clear, you are extraordinarily presumptuous for a new comer to AVS.

---

In yet another attempt to steer this back on track, here is a quote from Evangelo who built a set of slides a lot of people have been using over the years:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelo2 View Post

The slides/dvd only get you through the first 100 to 150 hours faster. You shouuld wait until after those first 150 hours before doing a professional calibration as the settings will change as the set ages.

For safety sake, I would avoid high contrast lines being shown for extended periods of times, black bars and video games for the first 100 hours. This point is more my opinion and precaution than 100% necessary but I wouldn't view these things with a fresh plasma.

-Evangelo2

---

Let's summarize:
  • Does it speed up the process of safely putting hours on the set in it's "most volatile" stage of life? Yes!
  • Does it prevent future burn-in or image retention? No!
  • Does it prevent you from doing something stupid to accidentally cause burn-in during the initial "most volatile" stage of life? Yes!
  • Are you capable of safely putting hours on your set without using slides? Yes!
  • Is the panel more evenly prepared by using slides? Yes!
    (But many will argue that over time with normal viewing well into thousands of hours it will go back to aging unevenly making the even prep a waste of time. D-Nice would disagree with that idea, and personally since I don't have hard data either way I tend to lean toward the experienced calibrator who does. Besides, "Its not going to hurt anything beyond your own patience." I have nothing to lose.)
post #679 of 5659
Quote:
  • Does it prevent future burn-in or image retention? No!
  • Does it prevent you from doing something stupid to accidentally cause burn-in during the initial "most volatile" stage of life? Yes!

For what it's worth, I think this distinction (or typically, the lack thereof) is the single greatest cause for controversy over the usage of slides.

I don't think anyone can argue that the first 100 hours of life are far more likely to result in burn-in because of stupidity or lack of attention. This is why most advocate using "common sense" during that period of time with regards to black bars, static images and mixing content.

So for many, it actually could prevent burn-in in the sense that it may prevent you from doing something stupid during that time, accidentally or not. That's not to say you can't do this on your own using "common sense". "Put this slideshow on and let it run for 100 hours" has a predictable result. "Be careful with your viewing during the first 100 hours" may not depending on the person.

That's where the disconnect lies- it's often communicated in such a way that people think future burn-in or image retention is prevented by using the slides. Which of course is ridiculous.
post #680 of 5659
Wow my post was lost among the many diatribes listed. Again if anyone has some recs on a stand for the 64 it would be greatly appreciated
post #681 of 5659
Check out the Furnitech FT72CC, it can be had within your budget. The 64F8500 would fit on the 60CC actually as well.
post #682 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post


---

Let's summarize:
  • Does it speed up the process of safely putting hours on the set in it's "most volatile" stage of life? Yes!
  • Does it prevent future burn-in or image retention? No!
  • Does it prevent you from doing something stupid to accidentally cause burn-in during the initial "most volatile" stage of life? Yes!
  • Are you capable of safely putting hours on your set without using slides? Yes!
  • Is the panel more evenly prepared by using slides? Yes!
    (But many will argue that over time with normal viewing well into thousands of hours it will go back to aging unevenly making the even prep a waste of time. D-Nice would disagree with that idea, and personally since I don't have hard data either way I tend to lean toward the experienced calibrator who does. Besides, "Its not going to hurt anything beyond your own patience." I have nothing to lose.)
I agree with your summary. In fact I did something very similar five and a half years earlier when we kept our new Kuro running 24/7 for 500 hours using the slides that D-Nice indicated and normal TV and shinny disk materials.

I haven't personally participated in your discussion other than to quote D-Nice's instructions. The point I tried to make was an entirely different topic. You're right that it's enough. Enjoy. smile.gif
post #683 of 5659
Just watch the damn TV!!!
Carefully!!!

That's my advice.

Enjoy it, stop tip toe-ing around worrying night and day and go out and live your lives.
There's plenty more other stuff to worry about without this crap hanging over your head smile.gif

2c.
post #684 of 5659
I had no idea this TV and my Galaxy S3 would be best friends like this. I thought the YouTube app would be useless. But nope. I just go to YouTube on my phone, find a video, and then play it on the TV. I have no idea how this is happening, but it's pretty awesome. I did go to WiFi Direct and connected them that way, so maybe that's how it's working. I would have thought AllShare Cast would do this, but I guess you need to physically hook the phone to the TV for this to work. Or maybe not. I don't really know (obviously), but this bonus functionality is really cool.

Also, I knew the HD video recording of the S3 was good. But I didn't know how good until I played one on this TV using whatever it is that allows them to connect to each other. Wow. It's like you're there. I love technology.




Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Just watch the damn TV!!!
Carefully!!!

That's my advice.

Enjoy it, stop tip toe-ing around worrying night and day and go out and live your lives.
There's plenty more other stuff to worry about without this crap hanging over your head smile.gif

2c.

Some people do take this stuff way too seriously. It's amusing. Breaking in a TV? Oh, you mean watching it? Haha. Good times.
post #685 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

No need to put words in your mouth. If you can tell me how you watch letterbox movies without doing it for hours at a time let me know.

No condemning here; you seem to forget this little back and forth started with you saying that slides serve no purpose, when they clearly do- whether you care to use them or not is another matter.

So, IMO, there's no need to be concerned about watching a letter-boxed 2 hour movie followed by full screen material. I've done it and have had no issues. If you're nervous about it, don't do it. Simple?

This back and forth started when I said I saw no 'need' for slides. Emphasis on 'need'. There is no 'need'. You may have a desire, but it's not necessary.

I think we've worn this one out. Enjoy your display however you choose to break it in. smile.gif
post #686 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by lohajat112 View Post

hey guys...any recs on a tv stand for the pn64f8500? price range ~ under 1000. thanks!!

I have and recommend the TechCraft BWNTR60 60-Inch Wide Flat Panel TV Stand (about $300) (http://www.amazon.com/TechCraft-BWNTR60-60-Inch-Panel-Stand/dp/B00A0P6B6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366146358&sr=8-1&keywords=bwntr60)

The TV is about 1 inch narrower than the stand so it is almost a perfect fit and has lots of space below for a AV receiver, DVD player, etc. biggrin.gif
post #687 of 5659
Just to let you all know I purchased a samsung F8500 64" recently and registered through samsung.com product support to receive an extra 3 months parts/labor through samsung

Visitor: when does my tv warranty expire?
Visitor: with samsung
Sherlock: please give me a minute while i look for the information.
Sherlock: You will get 12 months warranty from the date of purchase and 15 months warranty from the date of manufacture. However i will provide you with the details.
Visitor: i signed up on here and registered the product on samsung.com did i receive the extra 3 months? I am unsure
Visitor: there is nothing on my account
Sherlock: According to the date of manufacture i see that the warranty of your unit expires on 10/03/2014.
Visitor: ok so it did kick in when i signed up
Visitor: this is parts/labor?
Sherlock: Yes, this is both for the parts and labour.



The initial warranty 12 months TV was received last week July 13 2013.. I called up that day after i registered online to verify they told me my warranty expires they tell me it expires on July 22, 2014 . My chat above verified that it was extended 3 months parts/labor to OCT 2014 . I was told it would take a few days to kick in the computer system.


also i am going with the 99.00 deal through costco to receive a total of 4 years
15 months through samsung and 3 years through square trade

note square trade does not cover burn in but does cover everything else

if you want to cover burn in you have to go through geek squad best buy but you will have to shell out 499.00 for 4 years
Edited by CSIG1001 - 7/15/13 at 8:26am
post #688 of 5659
^ So we'll be interested in hearing your comparisons with the ZT60 you returned
post #689 of 5659
Don't really want to start a new thread for this so I thought I would post it here.

I have read about the 3d brightness pops, but I've never read what they truly are, can someone explain that to me?

I was watching Jurassic Park in 3d this weekend and think i saw them, but again, not sure what I am looking for.

Phil
post #690 of 5659
Quote:
Originally Posted by lohajat112 View Post

hey guys...any recs on a tv stand for the pn64f8500? price range ~ under 1000. thanks!!
Bello
Tech Craft
BDI

Make some very nice stands...........
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