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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 24

post #691 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

^ So we'll be interested in hearing your comparisons with the ZT60 you returned



I owned The VT60 65" for almost 60 days before returning to best buy. It was a great TV for blu-ray movie watching in a completely pitch black dark room.. The shadow detail and blacks are still a notch above the F8500 in that type of environment but in all reality for my viewing environment day/night the F8500 is alot better. My living room has alot of big windows even when the blinds were closed the light coming in could easily be seen on the VT reflecting back with a mirror like reflection and would cause the picture to wash out due to the windows/light.. The whites on the VT were always dirty and to me not accurate and vibrant especially during the day. I am sure the ZT60 is a great set due to the same type of filter technology that is used on the F8500 however it has already been proven that ZT is less bright then the VT which would not help my situation . For me the F8500 looks best with kevin Miller settings using Movie, Warm 1 for day and Warm 2 for night at 17 cell light . Increasing the brightness on the F8500 to a cell light of 20 does not ruin the picture but to me only decreases the blacks slight but giving it LED type pop. Since the F8500 has a higher light output then the VT/ZT it also looks alot better when gaming and gives video games a LED like picture with amazing contrast , sharpness while maintaining great viewing angles. I had the chance to plug in settings at Pauls TV show room i mentioned above on the F8500 and used THX bright room on the VT and not only was the F8500 looking better then every LED on the floor and F8000 65/75" LED but clearly shows that the filter was better on the F8500 on any TV on the floor as well.

When i first bought my VT60 I used both vibrant settings on the F8500/VT which was not clearly the way to make a determination when purchasing a TV. Unfortunately I made my determination by reading reviews on here and CNET and did not take into consideration samsung smart hub or filter. I did not know the VT/ZT60 had 2 fans . The F8500 has a slight buzz when you stick your head behind the tv but isnt as bad as my old 60" ST30 which was louder . When the volume is off I can browse the smart hub without hearing fans like the VT60 which to me was not annoying but like a white noise but was noticeable and feel that to enjoy smart hub or any kind of smart tv device your tv should be close to silent. When you are watching Tv on low at 3am who wants to hear a white noise fan .. not me anyway.

We are in 2013 and I think Panasonic should of had this resolved a long time ago that TVs need to be silent. Smart hub on the F8500 to me is way more advanced when it comes to applications and menu layout/functionality vs any Panasonic plasma. Applications are easier to use and look better believe it or not which made them more enjoyable to use vs the panasonic viera hub. Overall The VT60 smart functions were clunky compared to the F8500 and look forward to seeing more apps come available on the F8500 in the future. The panasonic app store is a joke and I have made the decision to sell my new apple tv even though I own a ipad 4th gen.. The samsung smart hub app on my android phone is alot better then Panasonic app and will just leave it at that..

I had a chance to use both the VT60 camera and the F8500 and I can tell you that F8500 camera looks clearer, brighter and picks up where you are in the room better then the VT. Maybe because my camera sits 6ft from the ground I dont know but the F8500 camera did the job correctly and performed better. I am very happy with the camera on the F8500. The remote on the F8500 is alot better then the VT60 the touch pad is easy to use when browsing through the guide or smart hub. The remote flawlessly linked up with my Denon receiver and comcast box to control both devices. The VT/ZT60 remote is a joke and I did not use the microphone function at all. The F8500 is microphone software is smarter and reminds me of google android microphone smart software on androids jellybean. The motion control is freak en awesome innovation and for me works flawlessly with so many ways to control a TV its a nice improvement over the pansonic line.

I also use a USB hard drive directly connected to the F8500 to watch any type of movie, Divx, MKV, AVI, MPEG , MKV with DTS and it decodes them all flawlessly again. It is so awesome to see the movie preview in a box and once again the panasonic smart hub or whatever it is called is a joke and does not work properly with movie files. I did like the VT60 stand since my center speaker is now having to be pushed off to the side due to the stand design on the F8500 but this is just a minor set back . The positive on the F8500 bezel design is the titanium gray bezel which blocks out any reflection unlike the VT/ZT60 which is clearly like a mirror like glass that made my situation worse especially with recess lighting. Dont get me wrong the pansonic bezel looks great and the build quality looks cooler and richer but for my situation I needed more light to be adsorbed as this TV was not in a basement or an apartment with little windows. One last thing D-nice mentioned in the 2013 HD shootout the F8500 brightness improvement would only show on some content like apple commercials.. Well after watching several other content i.e. commercials HD content the whites along with the contrast and detail to me popped alot more then the VT that had pure white backgrounds. Even the white lettering on a pure black background are bright and pure while the blacks maintain that inky look which the VT did not do.

in conclusion
I am sure the VT/ZT is the new reference supposedly but the F8500 clearly looks better in my environment and the positives outweighed the negatives versus the VT/ZT. I did not see brightness pops, floating blacks as others have mentioned and also would like to mention 3D looks better with a positive going to samsung for providing 4 pairs glasses. Who wants to purchase more glasses? I would never even attempt to watch 3d during the day with the blinds closed on the VT60 but now is actually watchable on the F8500 with blinds open. Probably due to the increase in brightness ABL and filter... The 1080p 3D does look better on the F8500 unlike the VT/ZT which uses tricks to display 3d at 1080p from what i am hearing is not full 1080p.

Panasonic/Sony have some work to do if they are going to compete with Samsung in the OLED arena as it is already a known fact that Panasonic was in the negative roughly 700 million - Billion last year in revenue while Samsung has made close to billion . R&D clearly shows that Samsung is ahead of the game with all the new innovations/firmware support/smart hub/ABL etc and will continue to provide more improvements in the future. Only time will tell if the F8500 or VT/ZT will have any issues but with a 15 month manufacture warranty and 3 years on square trade making it 4 years I will be satisfied until OLED technology is within the 2-3k range at 65" or larger until a upgrade is needed. Who knows maybe the upgrade able smart hub will be a worthy upgrade to make this TV even more enjoyable to use.







http://www.tweaktv.com/in-dspth-hdtv-reviews/preliminary-review-of-samsung-s-new-pn60f8500-plasma.html
post #692 of 5650
What did your calibrator say about the dirty whites ?
post #693 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

What did your calibrator say about the dirty whites ?

He told me that if you come across a guy named chunon on the forums to ignore him because the THX Cinema mode put out a near perfect calibration on the VT60 and that the F8500 is alot brighter and whiter
post #694 of 5650
Okay whatever you say fact is you never had your set professionally calibrated but please enjoy your new set
post #695 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Okay whatever you say fact is you never had your set professionally calibrated but please enjoy your new set


I will
you enjoy your VT50

I am looking forward to hockey and the 2014 winter olympics
post #696 of 5650
I'm currently using Kevin Millers TV settings and have the TV hooked up through HDMI to my HTPC, Watching the latest GI Joe movie the blacks just aren't as black as I would imagine, with the lights off in the room I gather the 2 black bars(Top and Bottom) should pretty much blend right into the darkness around the TV in the room this doesn't seem to be the case. Is it possible there is something in the ATI video card that is upping the brightness?
post #697 of 5650
Have fun with that and those zebras 😄
post #698 of 5650
I will they look great and vibrant in the day not washed out
post #699 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by EzRush View Post

I'm currently using Kevin Millers TV settings and have the TV hooked up through HDMI to my HTPC, Watching the latest GI Joe movie the blacks just aren't as black as I would imagine, with the lights off in the room I gather the 2 black bars(Top and Bottom) should pretty much blend right into the darkness around the TV in the room this doesn't seem to be the case. Is it possible there is something in the ATI video card that is upping the brightness?

Sounds like your ATI video driver on your computer is over riding the settings on the tv.
Are you running an OS ?

Play the movies through the smart hub
post #700 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by philwojo View Post

Don't really want to start a new thread for this so I thought I would post it here.

I have read about the 3d brightness pops, but I've never read what they truly are, can someone explain that to me?

I was watching Jurassic Park in 3d this weekend and think i saw them, but again, not sure what I am looking for.

Phil

Phil, the most important thing for you to know about the brightness pops, is that they're gone...at least in 2D.
post #701 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Have fun with that and those zebras 😄

Chunon, in case you're not aware, this is an owners thread, not a thread devoted to more of what we see in the A vs B thread.
post #702 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

I will they look great and vibrant in the day not washed out

Well you've certainly done a 180 from where you were not too long ago on the F8500. It happens. We sometimes tend to 'see the light', so to speak. wink.gif

At any rate it certainly sounds like you're enjoying the F8500 like the rest of us. I believe what you're seeing with the whites in content other than commercials, is what I always harp on (and some constantly minimize on other threads by alluding to me as the ABL 'zealot'), is the better controlled ABL. I read this stuff and laugh since I believe that many realize the truth, but feel better simply denying that ABL is of much significance.

Frankly I would much rather give up a drop of blacks in the very darkest scenes, especially at the already very low MLLs of the 8500, to gain so much more ability to hold whites as white in many scenes. These scenes can and do occur in virtually any kind of movie, drama, documentary, nature show, whatever. For me this makes a myriad of content more enjoyable than being made frequently aware of brightness 'throttling'. It's one of the things that's always made by Sharp Elite such an enjoyable set to watch.

As for not seeing the 'floating blacks', welcome to the club. I can't recall any owner other than one person who switched to a VT60, mentioning having seen it. I was watching varied content over the weekend, including some very dark content as well as mixed content. Not a hint of floating blacks. None. Whatever the measurements say, we seem to be unable to see it and to me that's where the rubber meets the road.
post #703 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by EzRush View Post

I'm currently using Kevin Millers TV settings and have the TV hooked up through HDMI to my HTPC, Watching the latest GI Joe movie the blacks just aren't as black as I would imagine, with the lights off in the room I gather the 2 black bars(Top and Bottom) should pretty much blend right into the darkness around the TV in the room this doesn't seem to be the case. Is it possible there is something in the ATI video card that is upping the brightness?

The best way to see if your settings are correct is to watch content from a Blu Ray or other known quality source, not via your HTPC. Kevin's settings were not calibrated to that kind of source. Watch a dark Blu Ray movie like the TDK. You should see black levels that can only be described as 'inky'.
post #704 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by EzRush View Post

I'm currently using Kevin Millers TV settings and have the TV hooked up through HDMI to my HTPC, Watching the latest GI Joe movie the blacks just aren't as black as I would imagine, with the lights off in the room I gather the 2 black bars(Top and Bottom) should pretty much blend right into the darkness around the TV in the room this doesn't seem to be the case. Is it possible there is something in the ATI video card that is upping the brightness?
What media player are you using?

Go in the AMD Vision Control Center and make sure everything in the video tab is unchecked (or application preference) except automatic de-interlacing. Go to My Digital flatpanel and click on the pixel format tab and set it to RGB 0-255 if no other devices share this HDMI input. If other devices share this input, set it to RGB 16-235. Now find a setting on your Samsung called HDMI Black Level. If you set your pixel format to RGB 0-255, set HDMI Black Level to Normal. If you set your pixel format to RGB 16-235, set HDMI Black Level to Low.

That should ensure that your levels are matched between your display and computer and that the drivers won't influence the picture. With that said, black bars won't blend to the bezel in a completely dark room with dark / low APL content, but it should be pretty dark.
Edited by rahzel - 7/15/13 at 5:08pm
post #705 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post



Frankly I would much rather give up a drop of blacks in the very darkest scenes, especially at the already very low MLLs of the 8500, to gain so much more ability to hold whites as white in many scenes. These scenes can and do occur in virtually any kind of movie, drama, documentary, nature show, whatever. For me this makes a myriad of content more enjoyable than being made frequently aware of brightness 'throttling'. It's one of the things that's always made by Sharp Elite such an enjoyable set to watch.


As everyone knows I couldn't agree more with this statement.
Glen
post #706 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by philwojo View Post

Don't really want to start a new thread for this so I thought I would post it here.

I have read about the 3d brightness pops, but I've never read what they truly are, can someone explain that to me?

I was watching Jurassic Park in 3d this weekend and think i saw them, but again, not sure what I am looking for.

Phil
The screen temporally gets brighter for a split second and then reverts back to what it was as if there is some internal black leveler or background enabled eco setting that is adjusting the brightness level by pushing it up a click and then back down during certain scenes. It is only happening in 3D mode and was officially eliminated in 2D mode with a firmware update. Even with the brightness pops in 3D, I still prefer the 3D quality of the Samsung's plasma's over the Panasonic's. However I do want this fixed being the only issue left worth fixing.
post #707 of 5650
Can anyone confirm the proper way to use ARC? I have a HDMI cable going to the receiver on hdmi 3 with anynet on and i am receiving the tv guide through the tv.. The issue is when turning on thr tv my reciever will default to tv source vs the sat/cable . My harmony remote is set correctly i believe and will show the cable tv working then just switch off to tv source. Its not a major issue asi can just switch to sat/cable to watch tv. All the smart apps work through my receiver but as soon as you turn off anynet it does not work. I just ordered a optical cable and was wondering if i should move hdmi 3 to port 1 when i get this cable. Or should i take the cable box and just plug it into the tv vs the receiver when i get the optical cable.. Seems like this has been a known issue for alot of people . I am running a Denon 2112ci , is this receiver not compatible?
post #708 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Can anyone confirm the proper way to use ARC? I have a HDMI cable going to the receiver on hdmi 3 with anynet on and i am receiving the tv guide through the tv.. The issue is when turning on thr tv my reciever will default to tv source vs the sat/cable . My harmony remote is set correctly i believe and will show the cable tv working then just switch off to tv source. Its not a major issue asi can just switch to sat/cable to watch tv. All the smart apps work through my receiver but as soon as you turn off anynet it does not work. I just ordered a optical cable and was wondering if i should move hdmi 3 to port 1 when i get this cable. Or should i take the cable box and just plug it into the tv vs the receiver when i get the optical cable.. Seems like this has been a known issue for alot of people . I am running a Denon 2112ci , is this receiver not compatible?

I have Denon AVR-1802 [(Optical Cable to TV)PS64F8500AM] and if the stars are aligned I can get the Samsung remote to control volume on it, but most of the time it just doesn't work AT ALL! I think you should plug your TV into the 'TV' input on the amp if it works that way. There seem to be issues with Denon compatibility sadly mad.gif
post #709 of 5650
There is no tv input on the back that says hdmi tv input... I read online people have been having this issue since the d8000 or possibly since anynet was created. There is no solution? That is the conclusion i am getting to right now. I think this is a issue with multiple receivers from other manufactures besides denon. The question now is what receiver to get that works properly with anynet and that is better then my denon 2112ci. I dont think samsung can fix this as it has something to do with the hdmi-cec specification .
Anyone want to chime in. This is annoying
post #710 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBowyer View Post

I have Denon AVR-1802 [(Optical Cable to TV)PS64F8500AM] and if the stars are aligned I can get the Samsung remote to control volume on it, but most of the time it just doesn't work AT ALL! I think you should plug your TV into the 'TV' input on the amp if it works that way. There seem to be issues with Denon compatibility sadly mad.gif


After researching this is the best solution i got for using harmony remotes and anynet with a non samsung receiver

I have the exact same issue as you describe and there is a solution. I too neet Anynet enabled for the ARC feature to work. I find it hard to believe that most/all of the Harmony users here don't use Internet streaming features built into their modern TV's with ARC.

Fix 1:
Disable Anynet and use an optical cable for your TV's sound back to your receiver (instead of ARC). I know, I know, I don't like it either, what's the point of ARC if you are running more cables!?

Fix 2:
Leave everything the way you have it set now, except add a delay and another input switch to your "Watch TV" command for the receiver. You are adding an automatic command that replicates the Help button.
Essentially, everything you describe will still happen, but at the end of it's program it will wait until everything is happy and then send one final input change to your receiver to change to the correct input. I.E.. The receiver will come on, switch to 'DVR' (for example), then automatically switch to 'TV' (like it has been) and then after a short delay that you program into the Harmony, it will send another signal to switch back to 'DVR'.

Roundabout, yes, but it works. With all of this switching and with Anynet turned on, it takes my system about 20-30 seconds before I have a picture with sound. With Anynet off, it's about 10 seconds. Anynet=fail! I wish they would separate ARC from Anynet and everything would work as advertised.

Have the receiver turn on first, followed by the TV so they get their inputs happy and you won't need much of a delay.

Can't remember the exact settings, but it was minimal and worked on the first try.

Hope that helps.
post #711 of 5650
+1 for optical cable. No more problems.
You can pretend its ARC. No one will know wink.gif
post #712 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

+1 for optical cable. No more problems.
You can pretend its ARC. No one will know wink.gif

Just to clairify did you disable anynet ? My optical cable will be here tomorrow ... I also learned anynet can be enabled with the harmony remote just use andelay of 17 sec to switch back to sat/cable from tv source. Also i take it with the optical cable you disabled ARC and not on HDMI 3 for the tv?

I am going to reprogram my remote and check back later .. Worse comes to worse looks like i will have to disable anynet even with the optical cable. This is what i am thinking right now or is there a better way?
post #713 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post

The screen temporally gets brighter for a split second and then reverts back to what it was as if there is some internal black leveler or background enabled eco setting that is adjusting the brightness level by pushing it up a click and then back down during certain scenes. It is only happening in 3D mode and was officially eliminated in 2D mode with a firmware update. Even with the brightness pops in 3D, I still prefer the 3D quality of the Samsung's plasma's over the Panasonic's. However I do want this fixed being the only issue left worth fixing.

Thanks Supermans, that is what I thought it was and it is what i was seeing. It made the movie look washed out when it happened, and for me it wasn't always just for a second, there were times that it lasted for several seconds if not longer than that.

I do hope they get this fixed, not that I watch a lot of 3d stuff, but it still would be nice to have it fixed.


Phil
post #714 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Just to clairify did you disable anynet ? My optical cable will be here tomorrow ... I also learned anynet can be enabled with the harmony remote just use andelay of 17 sec to switch back to sat/cable from tv source. Also i take it with the optical cable you disabled ARC and not on HDMI 3 for the tv?

I am going to reprogram my remote and check back later .. Worse comes to worse looks like i will have to disable anynet even with the optical cable. This is what i am thinking right now or is there a better way?
I didn't have to disable Anynet to use my optical cable. In fact, I'm still successfully using ARC also between my 8500 and Oppo Bluray disc/media player. No problems for me whatsoever. I needed the optical connection for my Pioneer wireless infra-red headphones. Also, the main limitation with the optical connection is you're limited to 2.0 channel audio from any hdmi source...
post #715 of 5650
CSGI1001,
Denon 2112 ci HDMI Monitor out ARC to F8500 HDMI 3 ARC . Is this the hook up you are using ?



Corrected HDMI 3 is ARC
Edited by Glenee - 7/16/13 at 10:50am
post #716 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Just to clairify did you disable anynet ?

No, I have Anynet enabled as it powers my AVR on and off with the TV. I do not use ARC as flicking between sources (external and TV) causes unreliable results. There are no extra delays for my setup when leaving Anynet enabled.
Denon 2112ci.
Edited by pieandchips - 7/16/13 at 7:57am
post #717 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenee View Post

CSGI1001,
Denon 2112 ci HDMI Monitor out ARC to F8500 HDMI 2 ARC . Is this the hook up you are using ?

on the tv the back show HDMI 3 is ARC

HDMI 2 is DVI

HDMI 1 is STB
post #718 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

No, I have Anynet enabled as it powers my AVR on and off with the TV. I do not use ARC as flicking between sources (external and TV) causes unreliable results. There are no extra delays for my setup when leaving Anynet enabled.
Denon 2112ci.

Sounds like I need the optical cable and change my HDMI source to 1 STB. However I thought with anynet enabled it will change your receiver to TV source automatically upon startup anyway so i do not see this helping but will give it a shot?

Maybe it is because of my harmony remote and the combination of the anynet powering up the receiver idk.. On the Denon 2112ci i have my STB on Sat/cable

Everything else about the tv is great except knowing the fact if anynet is enabled upon startup It goes to Sat/cable TV pops up then goes blank switching to TV source due Anynet then I will have to press the button on the remote Sat/cable to go back to tv viewing.. Anynet is great for the smart hub and can not leave it disabled when using HDMI to fix this issue. So hopefully the optically cable fixes this issue

What do you think?
post #719 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

on the tv the back show HDMI 3 is ARC

HDMI 2 is DVI

HDMI 1 is STB

You are correct it is HDMI 3 ARC
post #720 of 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Sounds like I need the optical cable and change my HDMI source to 1 STB. However I thought with anynet enabled it will change your receiver to TV source automatically upon startup anyway so i do not see this helping but will give it a shot?

Maybe it is because of my harmony remote and the combination of the anynet powering up the receiver idk.. On the Denon 2112ci i have my STB on Sat/cable

Everything else about the tv is great except knowing the fact if anynet is enabled upon startup It goes to Sat/cable TV pops up then goes blank switching to TV source due Anynet then I will have to press the button on the remote Sat/cable to go back to tv viewing.. Anynet is great for the smart hub and can not leave it disabled when using HDMI to fix this issue. So hopefully the optically cable fixes this issue

What do you think?

That's a weird problem. Sorry please confirm, your TV goes to HDMI1 or your AVR goes to SAT/CableTV?
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