or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › First Projector Need Help Deciding – BenQ W1070 or Epson 8350?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

First Projector Need Help Deciding – BenQ W1070 or Epson 8350?

post #1 of 60
Thread Starter 
Help! There is so much information out there I don’t know how to make sense of it all. I am finishing my basement and will likely be getting my first projector. I am having a hard time deciding between the Epson 8350 or the BenQ W1070.

Viewing will probably be 45/45/10 sports/movies/TV. Maybe the occasional Wii video games with my young children. My room has no windows and can probably be completely dark, but will have dimmable can lighting at my disposal. My wife and I are a bit sensitive to dark room viewing so some ambient light might be needed, but I don’t know for sure until we have the opportunity to try it.

The room is 13.5’ x 17’-9”. We are on the fence as to which wall to project on. Right now we are leaning towards projecting on the longer wall because it offers more comfortable seating arrangements around a big screen. It also makes more sense from a flow perspective since the room opens up to a kitchenette area. The two rooms are more of one big space and join on the 13.5’ dimension. I would say the room is not going to be a dedicated theater but more of a family hang out with the potential to make it pitch black for movie nights if need be.

So my main concerns at this point are will my image be too bright projecting from 11-12 feet and sitting around 13-13.5 feet? I’m looking at a 105-120” screen.

From a brightness perspective at those distances (According to the Elite projector calculator) I’d be better with the Epson. But all the issues I’ve been reading about with the Epson scare me a little bit… I do however like what I read about Epson’s customer service and warranty. The placement flexibility on the 8350 – vertical and horizontal lens shift – is very nice.

The BenQ sounds like it s a fantastic little machine for the money. My only concern with it at this point is the brightness and projecting a little closer than the Epson. It also has less flexible placement options with limited vertical lens shift. 3D doesn’t really sway me one way or the other. I’m not all that interested in it right now…

So, what advice do all of you have? I would appreciate any info you can provide.

Thanks!
post #2 of 60
The only good reason to consider the 8350 over the 1070 is if your RBE sensitive or you must have lens shift for a difficult installation problem. Epson has a great warranty but you are more likely to need it with all the problems of convergence, Dust Blobs and early bulb failure. I am a big DLP fan so I might be somewhat biased (I did own an Epson 6100 and did like it). If your ceiling mounted with no obstructions lens shift is useless after its all setup and 3D on these DLP's is amazing . Brightness is no issue as you can always put on a ND filter to tone it down for 2D.
post #3 of 60
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much for your input!

As far as RBE, I haven't watched a DLP projector (or any projector, for that matter) since the Infocus X1 was all the rage. I think I saw the occasional rainbow with that but I'm assuming DLP has come a ways since then...

As far as lens shift, I do have a bulkhead/soffit that will require my screen to be around 15" from the ceiling (I will have 8' ceilings). But I think I can achieve that on the BenQ W1070 with its lens shift and so long as I have a mount that drops the projector 5-6" from the ceiling, which shouldn't be a problem.
post #4 of 60
Wow, someone with my dilemma too. I have been looking at these two also. I am leaning towards getting a refurbed 8350 since it would be under 1k and still have a warranty. I am coming from using an Optoma HD70 which did not have the lens shift and I think I would like to have that, but I have not found any projectors around 1k with it except for the W1070, but it is minor. My issue is the new room this will be in has 10 foot ceilings, so I will need a longer pole mount, which is not a big deal, but I want to make installing it as easy as possible. It's a big room, so I will probably go with a 120" screen. Light control will not be an issue as I have dealt with that before and we normally watch movies at night anyways. We might use it for the Xbox 360, so brightness in that regard might be worth noting. I could also care less about 3D as I am not going to spend extra for glasses. Any advice would be much appreciated.
post #5 of 60
The 8350 has very little resale value in the used market, and it continues to drop. The w1070 has 3D and is at least about three times as bright in its best mode. Most people will not see the RBE on the 1070, the color wheel is too fast. The w1070 and Epson 8350 have good color OOTB, but the Benq easily beats it in color accuracy. The w1070 is one of the most accurate projectors OOTB in color ever made even without a calibration. The Sony's and Benq w1070 are the most accurate.

The w1070 is significantly sharper than the average Epson 8350, has better color, more POP, better contrast, less SDE, and it's brighter.

This is an easy decision, IMO these two projectors are not even in the same league (well somewhat if you get exceptional convergence on an 8350), but even though they are NEAR the same price, the Benq kills the Epson. If you can fit the Benq, of course the Benq over the Epson. If you want something better than the Benq for dark sci-fi movies, look at a refurb Epson 5010 or B-stock JVC HD250 (no 3d), but those cost almost double.

Also, from my own experience with Epsons and Benqs, the Benq lamps last longer and stay bright longer than Epson lamps.
Edited by coderguy - 6/3/13 at 6:28am
post #6 of 60
I had to make the choice between the 8350 and the 1070 and after researching it thoroughly, I chose the Epson and haven't regretted it for a second. Yeah, the aroma of dlp bias is pretty strong in here.tongue.gif
post #7 of 60
As another mentioned, if the Benq fits, then I'd try that, if it doesn't work in the setup, The 8350 can be good if you get a good unit. Also consider a bit more expensive, last years model refurb, 2 yr warranty. Epson 5010, http://www.visualapex.com/Epson/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=Home-Cinema-5010-R
post #8 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

I had to make the choice between the 8350 and the 1070 and after researching it thoroughly, I chose the Epson and haven't regretted it for a second. Yeah, the aroma of dlp bias is pretty strong in here.tongue.gif

Actually most of us prefer LCOS, DLP is preferred in the lower sub $2000 budgets usually. Commercial cinemas don't use LCD, only DLP or LCOS. DLP is preferred in the lower price ranges for many reasons. Yes, LCD can still put out a good image, but it's just not AS good in that price range. They all have trade-offs.
post #9 of 60
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm starting to lean towards the BenQ. which is where I wanted to go initially I just wasn't sure I could get it to work with my soffit situation, but I think I'll be ok.

Now, how big of a screen can I get away with? Can I go 120" at 13 feet viewing distance? my screen would be pretty low to the ground - probably 20" off the ground. Is that too low?

Has anyone used the Seymour Centerstage XD material with the BenQ 1070? I think if I go bigger than 105" I'd probably need an AT screen. Otherwise my center channel would be too low.

Thoughts?

Thanks again!
post #10 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The 8350 has very little resale value in the used market, and it continues to drop. The w1070 has 3D and is at least about three times as bright in its best mode. Most people will not see the RBE on the 1070, the color wheel is too fast. The w1070 and Epson 8350 have good color OOTB, but the Benq easily beats it in color accuracy. The w1070 is one of the most accurate projectors OOTB in color ever made even without a calibration. The Sony's and Benq w1070 are the most accurate.

The w1070 is significantly sharper than the average Epson 8350, has better color, more POP, better contrast, less SDE, and it's brighter.

This is an easy decision, IMO these two projectors are not even in the same league (well somewhat if you get exceptional convergence on an 8350), but even though they are NEAR the same price, the Benq kills the Epson. If you can fit the Benq, of course the Benq over the Epson. If you want something better than the Benq for dark sci-fi movies, look at a refurb Epson 5010 or B-stock JVC HD250 (no 3d), but those cost almost double.

Also, from my own experience with Epsons and Benqs, the Benq lamps last longer and stay bright longer than Epson lamps.

On a 5010 I measured a 65% loss in brightness at 1500 hours, on a Benq at 1200 hours I measured a 20% loss. I've also had lamps crack on older Epsons and had them die early. This is the w7000 lamp, but the w1070 lamps are probably good too (they even run less wattage in eco mode I believe).

we all know your are a DLP fan
post #11 of 60
Subscribed
post #12 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos38 View Post

we all know your are a DLP fan

Considering 80% of my viewing is done on an LCOS projector, I don't think I'm a fan of any tech other than when it beats the others at certain things. DLP tends to beat LCD right now in the sub $1500 price ranges. If you choose the Epson over the Benq, it should be done for placement flexibility (and I'll admit the Epson still does a nice image, but the brightness and features aren't in the same league as the Benq).

The Epson 8350 has a placement flexibility advantage and NO RBE, and that is about where the advantage stops. it was more competitive in PQ versus the DLP's 2 years ago, the 1070 is a leap forward due to 6x color wheel and extreme color accuracy, not to mention it comes with 3D and is 144hz. The w1070 is sharper (sorry it's just a fact), and it has pretty much equal black to the 8350 (or really close) but doesn't even need the IRIS bounce to get there. Though with a 6x wheel, the RBE should not affect very many people.

The w1070 best mode is about three times brighter than the Epson 8350 best mode. Other than the placement headache, the w1070 is the better PJ.

Let's stick to facts:

OOTB Color Accuracy = Winner w1070
8350 pixel fill vs. 1070 = Winner Benq w1070
Best Mode Brightness = Winner w1070 by a MILE
Sharpness = Winner w1070
Blacks = Tie
3D = w1070 Only
Placement Flexibility = Epson 8350 by a MILE
Sample Variance Likelihood to get a Golden Sample = DLP of course

I don't see how anyone could say the 8350 is the better projector, even if you throw the differences between the two techs out the window. I'm detached from these projectors emotionally.
Edited by coderguy - 6/3/13 at 12:55am
post #13 of 60
How people have a choice like this and end up going for the epson for reasons apart from lens shift is crazy!!

Benq W1070 should be your next projector!!!
post #14 of 60
Coderguy, you forgot to try to steer him to "b stock" JVC.tongue.gif
post #15 of 60
Actually I did mention the B-Stock JVC's in my first post in the thread...

The B-stock HD250's are about $1300, but yah if you can budget for that, it's even better than the Benq w1070 IMHO, at least for movies. I'm not meaning to offend anyone with my opinions, but for me it's more just about talking about projectors is a passing hobby.

Honestly, there is no perfect projector, so everyone can be happy knowing their PJ probably excels in at least one area, though the w1070 is the best deal EVER in the sub $1000 class.
Edited by coderguy - 6/3/13 at 5:31am
post #16 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Actually I did mention the B-Stock JVC's in my first post in the thread...

The B-stock HD250's are about $1300, but yah if you can budget for that, it's even better than the Benq w1070 IMHO, at least for movies. I'm not meaning to offend anyone with my opinions, but for me it's more just about talking about projectors is a passing hobby.

Honestly, there is no perfect projector, so everyone can be happy knowing their PJ probably excels in at least one area, though the w1070 is the best deal EVER in the sub $1000 class.

Oops, my bad!wink.gif
post #17 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post

How people have a choice like this and end up going for the epson for reasons apart from lens shift is crazy!!

Benq W1070 should be your next projector!!!

I'd love to use a W1070, but with a 20' ceiling would have to plop the projector down on the coffee table every time I wanted to watch something due to a 17'+ throw for me. So I gotta go with a 5020 with ghosts/convergence/panel issues or w7000 with gray blacks/potential rbe/etc. The Sony is just outside the range.

Looking at 80" lcd's now as possible alternative.

Bleh. Really wanted in my face 3D.
post #18 of 60
Hmm, if you are sure the w7000 works (though with a 20' ceiling I don't see how), then that means so would the Sharp xvz-30000.
I might look at that one or go ahead and go with the Epson.
post #19 of 60
I was reading reviews of the w1070 and they point out that the blacks of the w7000 are better than the 1070.

Is that in accurate?
post #20 of 60
In the FWIW department, I have seen some reviews of the Benq 1070 and Optoma HD25 that mention you can still see the dreaded rainbows. That surprised me due to their use of the 6 segment wheel.
Projector Central seems to like the Epson 8350 a little more than the Benq w1070 though they love both the Benq and Optoma mentioned above.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson_home_cinema_8350_projector_review.htm
post #21 of 60
The projector central review of the 8350 is from 2010. Things have moved forward since then.

What about fan noise? Comparing the 2?
post #22 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

though the w1070 is the best deal EVER in the sub $1000 class.
+1000. I took Codeguy advise and cannot believe how the W1070 has exceeded my expectation. Honestly, I would take Codeguy advice as he has been experienced a whole lot more pjs than myself and most folks here. Be surprise how 3D looks on this pj. I never thought 3D can be this good at home and for less than a grand, it is a no brainier.
post #23 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

I was reading reviews of the w1070 and they point out that the blacks of the w7000 are better than the 1070.

Is that in accurate?

The w7000 can be setup to do darker blacks but ONLY by setting the IRIS up to be bouncy, meaning the IRIS has to be setup a tad aggressive. With the IRIS disabled, the w1070 easily beats the w7000 at black levels.
The w7000 is at best 1000:1 on/off (and most will measure lower), whereas the w1070 is at 2500:1 on/off. So the w1070 has double to triple the native contrast of the w7000.

So NO, the w7000 does not really have better blacks unless you allow the IRIS to be aggressive, but the problem with that is NATIVE contrast blacks will still look richer at times (IRIS or no IRIS). Also, the w7000's IRIS is ok but not great, so you'll see it bounce around and it can be distracting.

The only area the w7000 really beats the w1070 at is placement flexibility (w7000 has much more mounting range) and the w7000 is a tad bit sharper (mainly on the edges). The w7000 has better focus uniformity but you won't notice it in movies, only in HTPC a tiny bit.
post #24 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryrrthg View Post

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm starting to lean towards the BenQ. which is where I wanted to go initially I just wasn't sure I could get it to work with my soffit situation, but I think I'll be ok.

Now, how big of a screen can I get away with? Can I go 120" at 13 feet viewing distance? my screen would be pretty low to the ground - probably 20" off the ground. Is that too low?

Has anyone used the Seymour Centerstage XD material with the BenQ 1070? I think if I go bigger than 105" I'd probably need an AT screen. Otherwise my center channel would be too low.

Thoughts?

Thanks again!
I just purchased the 1070 (best buy online 865.00) and saving for center stage xD 120" from Jamestown (framed 550.00). It says 120" will be back 10-13ft ceiling mounted 3" above the top of the screen
post #25 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhawk View Post

In the FWIW department, I have seen some reviews of the Benq 1070 and Optoma HD25 that mention you can still see the dreaded rainbows. That surprised me due to their use of the 6 segment wheel.

Doesn't matter how many segments or how fast it spins. EVERY DLP projector has rainbow effect, if you know how to look for it.

I'm surprised some people claimed never seen RBE on 1070. Of course, it you keep your eye steady on the scene and never move elsewhere, then yes there is no RBE at all.

However, if you really want to see it, pick up a scene with dark background and bright, small or narrow light sources, such as a candle, a street light or white subtitle, then move the eye quickly across the screen. These bright spots will become a line of light. This is called Persistence of vision. In a DLP image, this white line is broken down by narrow strips of RGB colors. The faster the wheel, the narrower of the rainbow strips, but it will always be there.

I have never owned DLP projector before, so I never know what does it look like. However, just one minute after I fire up the 1070, I see the rainbow. I think even the wheel spins twice or 3 times faster, I will still see rainbows.

For those people who don't perceive RBE, that's a blessing actually.
post #26 of 60
The speed and number of segments does matter, but yes technically the RBE is still there if you do a darted contrast test with your eyes, but in normal viewing most of the time at some point most people no longer see it at this speed. So yes some can still potentially see it, but it is getting very rare.

There is a whole list of things that affect how much RBE we see in a scene:

1) The brightness of the projector (if you are watching it too bright, the chances of seeing RBE go up tremendously)
2) The amount of intrascene and Native on/off contrast affects how likely we are to see RBE in a given scene (which is why a candle in pure dark will show it, or car headlights at night)
3) The # of segments and the color wheel speed, all things equal this has the MOST effect on how much RBE we see
4) It is also possible that the way the optics and light path are refracting light could potentially have some effect (I don't know enough about this to say either way), though it might explain why some projectors
with the same type of color wheel and same # of segments give off more RBE even when they are showing the same contrast (or close to)

There have been some rumors that Optoma has misreported some of the color wheel speeds it is using, or for some other reason that Optomas can sometimes show more RBE even at faster speeds (no idea if there is truth to this).

I can tell you this, a Benq w7000 at 4x / 6 seg has MUCH MUCH less RBE than a Mitsubishi hc4000 at 4x / 6 seg (partly due to contrast, but other things as well). The Benq w1070 at 6-speed has EVEN less RBE than the Benq w7000 which by default is 4-speed (but can be adjusted in the SM to 6-speed, but too noisy).

So the Benq w1070 is leagues ahead of some of the older DLP's as far as how much less the RBE effect is, the w1070 literally runs away from the Mits hc4000 in the sense of having less RBE than the Mits.

A Benq w1070 does not have much RBE effect compared to most DLP's if you watch it at the correct brightness, it is one of the lesser RBE DLP's, actually it has the lowest of any projector under $2000 that I have seen (and I can see RBE). I can only see RBE on the w1070 if I do a dart test on an all black screen and have the foot lamberts high enough, it is one of the hardest DLP's to see it on. This does not mean that NO-ONE will be bothered by it, there will always be a few, but it will be SUPER RARE at this level.
Edited by coderguy - 7/14/13 at 3:02am
post #27 of 60
Don't forget that w1070 has different speed modes:
1080p 24Hz - 3.2x color wheel speed
1080p 60Hz - 4x color wheel speed
1080p 50Hz - 6x color wheel speed.
wink.gif
same thing with new w1500
6x only with 50Hz
http://www.benq.com/product/projector/w1500/specifications/

nevertheless I think w1070 is the best choice for sub $1500 price range...if you are not RBE sensitive
Edited by velconti - 7/14/13 at 5:36am
post #28 of 60
I believe your statements are misleading and incorrect, and require a lot of clarification.

The Benq engineers themselves have said many times and confirmed it is 3x @ 120hz / 6x @ 60hz. We pushed this in the forums, I was the one of the primary original doubters that kept saying the w1070 might only be a 4x color wheel (but every reviewer has denied this, and then confirmed by Benq as well). Also, in some cases, and specifically in the case of the BENQ PROJECTORS, the speed at which the wheel turns in 50hz mode is not a give-away for the speed at 60hz, though it can be (but according to articles I read, the motor can have variable adaptation for this). There is an article by Optoma about this, how it does not always match. Yes, I do have proof of this, see my next post.

Note that as a more in-depth example, the Benq w7000 (an older Benq) allows the color wheel speed to be changed in the service menu to be a 6x speed wheel, even though it is by default a 4x wheel. I do not have a 1070 on me, but when I viewed one in person for about an hour, anecdotally it did appear the color wheel was better than the w7000's default 4x mode (2x 120hz / 4x @ 60hz). The w1070 presumably uses a similar or the same color wheel as the Benq w7000, the only difference being that the Service Menu of the w1070 BY DEFAULT has the color wheel in 6x mode instead of 4x. This makes sense. How do I know all this, because I own the w7000 and have changed the setting myself. It would make sense that a newer BENQ that is already louder anyways would decide to just keep the default CW mode at 6x.

If someone goes into the SERVICE MENU of the w1070, there should be a multiple setting shown, if it says 2x, then that means the color wheel is a 4x wheel by default. If the multiple is being shown as 3x in the SM by default, then the color wheel is 6x. From what I have heard, the default multiple for the Benq w1070 is 6x @ 60hz (3x @ 120hz).

Unless someone snaps a screenshot inside the service menu of it being otherwise, I'm sticking with what everyone has been saying.
Edited by coderguy - 7/14/13 at 10:26am
post #29 of 60
coderguy
I'm not going to argue with you. smile.gif
1080p 60Hz results:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435626/benq-w1070-dlp-full-hd-3d-ready-with-lens-shift-for-1000/3990#post_23165233
1) These measurements were made with oscilloscope.
2) Russian benq support confirmed that benq w1070 has motor with max 9000rpm...wink.gif
3) The last one... have you ever seen w1070 service manual? page 7? wink.gif If not, please let me know, I'll send it to your e-mail?


As you can see, standard speed - 2x(4x effective due to RGBRGB), 3x - only for 50Hz.
Edited by velconti - 7/14/13 at 6:28am
post #30 of 60
You are being quite over-confident sounding considering what I just posted, and considering I have documented most of the settings of the w7000 service menu which shouldn't be too dissimilar to the w1070 when it comes to the color wheel.

Though not having been in the w1070 service menu, I have been in the w7000 service menu, it is capable of 6x speeds even though the default is 4x speed. That there is proof enough that the 50hz speed cannot be used as a derivative of the 60hz speed between EU and US modes, I can find the article by Optoma which tells you why, and it applies to other units not just Optomas. Some of the motors are adaptively variable. You cannot look at the 50hz speed and derive the US speeds (not always, sometimes you can). The reason is because the firmware adjusts the motor adaptively.

HERE IS THE PROOF anyways
Even if the 50hz was adaptable by using the straight out single RPM motor speed, then we know this to be invalidated for the w7000 because of the service menu multiple option that can be adjusted by the user (which I have seen and changed myself). That means the option is exposed as an API directly to the firmware because it's in the menu as such, so that means a simple setting can be accessed with the FIRMWARE CODE or the user. Why would the Benq engineer's lie and then why would the w7000 have this feature and not a newer BENQ, quite unlikely.

Every Benq engineer has confirmed the speed is 6x, just as the w7000 is reported as 4x but is capable of 6x. I am not concerned with what Russian Benq support has claimed and what has been measured in 50hz mode of a European version of the Benq. I have seen what the Benq's adaptive settings in the Service Menu are with my own eyes.

Again, it is going to be assumed that since we know the w7000's color wheel can be put into 6x mode into the service menu, that the newer w1070 which has been reported as 6x by all BENQ US reviewers, therefore the only difference being by default BENQ released the w1070 with the multiple at 3x because it was already a noisy projector. The only issue with putting the w7000 into 3x/6x mode is the NOISE.

Unless someone wants to go into the Service Menu of the w1070 and show me the multiple is stuck at 2x and not at 3x by default, then I've heard the color wheel myself, and it sounded similarly noisy (though not quite as bad) as when the w7000 was in 6x mode.

And I know 100% fact that the w7000's color wheel multiple changed when I adjusted it in the service menu from 2x to 3x (hence 6x @ 60hz / 3x @ 120hz), I can hear it for one, and I can see it for two, I know what the setting means for three, and every projector expert I know has confirmed the same thing.
Edited by coderguy - 7/14/13 at 6:49am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › First Projector Need Help Deciding – BenQ W1070 or Epson 8350?