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Forza 5 10 years in the making - Page 2

post #31 of 728
I don't care about night and weather, and I never used the auction house. This will be one of the first games I get on my day one Xbox One.
post #32 of 728
I could care less about the auction house but rain, night racing, increased car variety (IndyCar is a step in the right direction), increased track count, and increased field size are what I want to see. And since the thing has to be there anyways, excellent head tracking with Kinect would be nice since something should take advantage of that.

Forza already does everything else pretty well as simcades go. It just needs more of it rather than concentrating on useless features and adding in countless redundant vehicles. If you've driven one late model front wheel drive passenger sedan, modern supercar, and so on you've typically seen about all there is to see where that class is concerned.

It's the physics that are the most interesting facet for me, not the eye candy with the vehicle contours and such. Half the time I've forgotten what make and model I'm driving by the time I take the checkered.

So more physics uniqueness with distinct types of vehicles like the introduction of the latest IndyCar is what I want to see rather than having several hundred vehicles in some instances that largely drive alike with just minor nuances differentiating them.
post #33 of 728
Why even bother to waste all that time on the launch title on a new system? Sales are going to be limited. How many iterations of Forza were there on the 360? I figure you do a decent job on the first one, then you come out with a second one a year oror two later with improvements and many of the things that were missing on the previous version. Then you also have more consoles in the wild and more potential sales.

And you can also improve the first gen title by having DLC at some point after release.
post #34 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I could care less about the auction house but rain, night racing, increased car variety (IndyCar is a step in the right direction), increased track count, and increased field size are what I want to see. And since the thing has to be there anyways, excellent head tracking with Kinect would be nice since something should take advantage of that.

Forza already does everything else pretty well as simcades go. It just needs more of it rather than concentrating on useless features and adding in countless redundant vehicles. If you've driven one late model front wheel drive passenger sedan, modern supercar, and so on you've typically seen about all there is to see where that class is concerned.

It's the physics that are the most interesting facet for me, not the eye candy with the vehicle contours and such. Half the time I've forgotten what make and model I'm driving by the time I take the checkered.

So more physics uniqueness with distinct types of vehicles like the introduction of the latest IndyCar is what I want to see rather than having several hundred vehicles in some instances that largely drive alike with just minor nuances differentiating them.

This and tracks. I would like to see more tracks as that adds variety.
post #35 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

So you know what all is going to be in this game? Because it hasn't launched yet and they have stated more information will come as they always do this. Personally don't care for night racing or rain. Still day one for myself. I was just simply stating about what I heard. Don't care to debate how anyones reaction to the game is. Again we don't know what is all in the full version. More info will come is what was stated. Not like it is being released tomorrow.

Look! I just want to drive my Mustang in Forza 5 biggrin.gif

Just cover the screen with a black blanket and cut 2 holes in it for the lights. That gives you night racing. I never use rain, I am bad enough on the dry.
post #36 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Why even bother to waste all that time on the launch title on a new system? Sales are going to be limited. How many iterations of Forza were there on the 360? I figure you do a decent job on the first one, then you come out with a second one a year oror two later with improvements and many of the things that were missing on the previous version. Then you also have more consoles in the wild and more potential sales.

Forza has been on a two year release schedule since the original and that tradition continues as the 5th release nears on now its third console generation.

And I think you'd find that they really aren't bringing significant additions to the series very often. Rather, they enhance and refine what has largely been there since day 1 with improved graphics, improved physics, improved AI, etc.

Weather for instance. Everyone gave it a pass on the original Xbox since it was their first time out the gate. Then we all gave it a pass with Forza 2 since there was new hardware to deal with and their first entry in the HD age. But it never did appear with Forza 3 or Forza 4.

I'm hard pressed to think of a really major addition to the franchise besides the addition of cockpits with Forza 3. So I really doubt that it's just a matter of waiting for Forza Motorsports 6 to get some of this stuff.

Rather, I predict they will continue with tradition. Forza 6 will arrive in about 28 months and be most everything that Forza 5 was with some enhancements, refinements, and some deletions and additions to the vehicle/track roster.

But nothing particularly new feature wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

This and tracks. I would like to see more tracks as that adds variety.

More track variety was on my list. smile.gif

It's something the Forza/GT formula dearly needs. Otherwise you're just going to get halfway through career mode and suddenly realize yet again that you haven't seen anything fresh in many hours as you're racing the same track and the very same layout that you've likely raced ten times already.

And it's not something easily rectified with DLC. For starters, clearly Turn 10 realizes that the best bang for their buck is with basic car packs (Despite these games already shipping with many hundreds of vehicles). With relatively little effort they have something to sell every month that people will lap up.

And even if they didn't, it's of little importance if these tracks aren't incorporated into career mode. Forza 2 for instance. I think I raced Road America perhaps twice and perhaps only tried out each layout of Motegi once.

Nobody had them in multiplayer it seemed and they weren't incorporated into career mode with additional events or seeded throughout career mode as replacements for other courses in order to add a bit more variety instead of racing Laguna Seca 30 times throughout the course of the game.

So DLC tracks aren't likely the solution even in the unlikely event Turn 10 returns to the concept. But it's track variety more than anything that keeps these games fresh. Every new course is a unique event unlike the vehicle roster where everything falls into about a half dozen physics types with just subtle differences differentiating them beyond their visual appearance.

So they need to concentrate more on a lot of tracks on day 1. All the pretty cars in the world don't mean anything if you're bored with the slate of tracks after just a few hours of time.
Edited by Leo_Ames - 6/14/13 at 10:50pm
post #37 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

Forza has been on a two year release schedule since the original and that tradition continues as the 5th release nears on now its third console generation.

And I think you'd find that they really aren't bringing significant additions to the series very often. Rather, they enhance and refine what has largely been there since day 1 with improved graphics, improved physics, improved AI, etc.

Weather for instance. Everyone gave it a pass on the original Xbox since it was their first time out the gate. Then we all gave it a pass with Forza 2 since there was new hardware to deal with and their first entry in the HD age. But it never did appear with Forza 3 or Forza 4.

I'm hard pressed to think of a really major addition to the franchise besides the addition of cockpits with Forza 3. So I really doubt that it's just a matter of waiting for Forza Motorsports 6 to get some of this stuff.

Rather, I predict they will continue with tradition. Forza 6 will arrive in about 28 months and be most everything that Forza 5 was with some enhancements, refinements, and some deletions and additions to the vehicle/track roster.

But nothing particularly new feature wise.
More track variety was on my list. smile.gif

It's something the Forza/GT formula dearly needs. Otherwise you're just going to get halfway through career mode and suddenly realize yet again that you haven't seen anything fresh in many hours as you're racing the same track and the very same layout that you've likely raced ten times already.

And it's not something easily rectified with DLC. For starters, clearly Turn 10 realizes that the best bang for their buck is with basic car packs (Despite these games already shipping with many hundreds of vehicles). With relatively little effort they have something to sell every month that people will lap up.

And even if they didn't, it's of little importance if these tracks aren't incorporated into career mode. Forza 2 for instance. I think I raced Road America perhaps twice and perhaps only tried out each layout of Motegi once.

Nobody had them in multiplayer it seemed and they weren't incorporated into career mode with additional events or seeded throughout career mode as replacements for other courses in order to add a bit more variety instead of racing Laguna Seca 30 times throughout the course of the game.

So DLC tracks aren't likely the solution even in the unlikely event Turn 10 returns to the concept. But it's track variety more than anything that keeps these games fresh. Every new course is a unique event unlike the vehicle roster where everything falls into about a half dozen physics types with just subtle differences differentiating them beyond their visual appearance.

So they need to concentrate more on a lot of tracks on day 1. All the pretty cars in the world don't mean anything if you're bored with the slate of tracks after just a few hours of time.

Wouldn't they be able to carry the tracks over from previous version of the game? It seems like they could add a few new tracks with every game at not a huge cost. Instead we get bigger versions of Autovista, which I am not sure I have even used. I guess it is cheaper to make though.
post #38 of 728
I got curious what has appeared and disappeared. So here's a list, ignoring variations, that I just compiled. They've done pretty well since FM2 in carrying things over but we always get a few subtractions. Might be some minor mistakes though. Particularly with the test tracks that have changed names and such. And I vaguely seem to remember Sunset completely changed between two different games but I can't swear that it did.

Tracks in bold are confirmed for FM5.

Alpine Ring (1)
Amalfi Coast (3, 4; Strangely in FM4, it's available in truncated form under the name Rally di Positano)
Benchmark High Speed Ring (3, 4; FM4 bonus for purchasing game new as I recall )
Bernese Alps (4)
Blue Mountains Raceway (1)
Camino Viejo de Montserrat (3, 4)
Catalunya (3, 4)
Fujimi Kaido (1 & in truncated form 3 & 4)
Hockenheimring (4)
Iberian (3, 4)
Indianapolis (4)
Infineon (4)
Ladera (3, 4)
LeMans (3, 4)
Maple Valley Raceway (1-4)
Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway (1-4)
Mugello (2, 3, 4)
New York Circuit (1, 2, 3)
Nordschleife (1-4)
Nurburgring Grand Prix Circuit (3, 4)
Pacific Shipyards (1)
Prague
Rally di Positano (3; In FM4, Rally di Positano is actually Amalfi rather than the FM3 Positano track)
Rio de Janeiro (1)
Road America (1-4; FM2 DLC)
Road Atlanta (1-4)
Sebring (2, 3, 4)
Sedona (3, 4)
Sidewinder (2, 3; FM3 bonus for purchasing game new as I recall)
Silverstone (1-4)
Sunset Peninsula (1-4)
Suzuka (2, 3, 4)
Tokyo (1)
Top Gear (4)
Tsukuba Circuit (1-4)
Test Track (1)
Twin Ring Motegi (2, 3, 4 ; FM2 DLC)

They did a lousy job moving from FM1 to FM2 though in carrying tracks over (Wish Alpine Ring would finally be updated). But hopefully that won't be the case with this latest jump to new hardware though. And I had forgotten that Forza 1 had night tracks like Tokyo so that was a step backwards since the original.

Edited by Leo_Ames - 6/15/13 at 4:01am
post #39 of 728
Yes, they have done a pretty good job carrying them over. Hopefully we get more tracks with bigger HDs, BDs and system specs.
post #40 of 728
Can't wait!
post #41 of 728
Well here you go Forza fans!


Your brand spankin' new official wheel- who needs a Fanatec with all that pesky quality when you can have a rebadged Thrustmaster Ferrari 458 complete with plastic pedals. Pedals that conspicuously lack a clutch, btw.
Enjoy!
post #42 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

Well here you go Forza fans!


Your brand spankin' new official wheel- who needs a Fanatec with all that pesky quality when you can have a rebadged Thrustmaster Ferrari 458 complete with plastic pedals. Pedals that conspicuously lack a clutch, btw.
Enjoy!

This is a console for the future. There are no clutches or quality in the future, get used to it! If you want a clutch and quality, use the older wheels on the 360. cool.gif
post #43 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

This is a console for the future. There are no clutches or quality in the future, get used to it! If you want a clutch and quality, use the older wheels on the 360. cool.gif

I'm surprised MS hasn't used that in an official press announcement, a'la "There's a console you can use offline, it's called the 360".
post #44 of 728
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

Well here you go Forza fans!


Your brand spankin' new official wheel- who needs a Fanatec with all that pesky quality when you can have a rebadged Thrustmaster Ferrari 458 complete with plastic pedals. Pedals that conspicuously lack a clutch, btw.
Enjoy!

Why would you expect a clutch on this when the 458 Italian doesn't have a clutch?
post #45 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Why would you expect a clutch on this when the 458 Italian doesn't have a clutch?

Well if that Ferrari was the only car in the game, you'd have a point. So I'll just take your comment as attempted sarcasm.
post #46 of 728
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

Well if that Ferrari was the only car in the game, you'd have a point. So I'll just take your comment as attempted sarcasm.

The point is the 458 doesn't have a clutch and it makes no sense to advertise it as a 458 Italia wheel and have a clutch.
post #47 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

Well if that Ferrari was the only car in the game, you'd have a point. So I'll just take your comment as attempted sarcasm.
Quote:
Thrustmaster VG Thrustmaster Ferrari 458 Racing Wheel for Xbox

-The world's first wheel with official licenses from Ferrari® and Microsoft Xbox 360®
-Replica of the wheel on the latest Ferrari 458 Italia, star vehicle of Forza Motorsport® 4!
-11? XXL size (7/10ths of the original) with rubber texture cladding for optimal handling on Xbox 360®.
-Wheel-mounted sequential gearbox: 2 Ferrari GT-style metal paddle shifters.
-Pedal set featuring pedals with long range of travel, plus realistic resistance and angle

SO I guess, based on the name of it, it has exactly what it should have.
post #48 of 728
Who cares what the car does and doesn't have. It's just a marketing tie-in to get a famous automotive name tied with the product and so they could take some styling cues from it to increase sales.

It's not a replica and a complaint about the lack of a clutch pedal is 100% valid even though Forza's clutch modeling has apparently been pretty lackluster anyways.
post #49 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

Who cares what the car does and doesn't have. It's just a marketing tie-in to get a famous automotive name tied with the product and so they could take some styling cues from it to increase sales.

It's not a replica and a complaint about the lack of a clutch pedal is 100% valid even though Forza's clutch modeling has apparently been pretty lackluster anyways.

Actually, FM4's clutch modeling is considered the best as far as console racers go. Too bad you'll never know if FM5's clutch is any good if you use that thing. But hey, it's mechanically authentic! That is, if you're only driving a modern supercar the whole game....
post #50 of 728
That's nice that they revamped it. I only heard bad things about Forza 3's clutch pedal support and I don't think Forza 2 had any support whatsoever.
post #51 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

Actually, FM4's clutch modeling is considered the best as far as console racers go. Too bad you'll never know if FM5's clutch is any good if you use that thing. But hey, it's mechanically authentic! That is, if you're only driving a modern supercar the whole game....

You're assuming there's not going to be a traditional clutch version of a racing wheel. Why would you assume that?
post #52 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

You're assuming there's not going to be a traditional clutch version of a racing wheel. Why would you assume that?

Oh, I'm sure that there will be a much more upscale and expensive wheel option from Thrustmaster down the line. The official GT wheel they make is very highly regarded. There are however, thousands of current Forza players who already have a good quality wheel, it's called a Fanatec. And MS is leaving us twisting in the wind right now in regards to whether it'll work on Xbone. MS stands to lose a lot of people next gen if we can't use our current gear with it. No way in hell I'm going to put up with mandatory kinect, internet check ins, drm and investing in a new and probably expensive wheel just to get my Forza fix. I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, so I'll bow out. I don't wanna be a buzzkill for the rest of you.
post #53 of 728
Really looking forward to this. Plus I'm partial to McLaren
post #54 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

Oh, I'm sure that there will be a much more upscale and expensive wheel option from Thrustmaster down the line. The official GT wheel they make is very highly regarded. There are however, thousands of current Forza players who already have a good quality wheel, it's called a Fanatec. And MS is leaving us twisting in the wind right now in regards to whether it'll work on Xbone. MS stands to lose a lot of people next gen if we can't use our current gear with it. No way in hell I'm going to put up with mandatory kinect, internet check ins, drm and investing in a new and probably expensive wheel just to get my Forza fix. I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, so I'll bow out. I don't wanna be a buzzkill for the rest of you.

No I can understand that and I agree with you. I think the goodwill shown towards their customer base would outweigh any potential grab for profits by making such an accessory usable from generation to generation. If Sony can make it happen I'm sure MS can to. That's a chunk of change to invest in a wheel not to be able to use it the next go a round. Not like you're just replacing some cheap controller. I can totally agree with you.
post #55 of 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

No I can understand that and I agree with you. I think the goodwill shown towards their customer base would outweigh any potential grab for profits by making such an accessory usable from generation to generation. If Sony can make it happen I'm sure MS can to. That's a chunk of change to invest in a wheel not to be able to use it the next go a round. Not like you're just replacing some cheap controller. I can totally agree with you.

The wheel setup I own costs more than the 360 I use with it. I am not sure that most people understand that.
post #56 of 728
Thread Starter 
post #57 of 728
That volumetric lighting or extreme HDR or whatever they're calling it looks nice but I can see that as the next lens flair fad. Speaking of, the lens flair shown does look much more realistic now. I have to say though that from what I've seen lighting looks much more realistic now which has always been a complaint of mine in any "sim" game. Less videogamey and more natural. Color depth is impressive as are shadows. I'd like to see an early morning scene with dew on the grass and areas of patchy ground fog on fields with the sun light glistening off it and creating challenging lighting conditions. I have a feeling lighting will play a much bigger part this coming up generation if we're getting stuff this good looking this early on. I'm impressed.
post #58 of 728
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

That volumetric lighting or extreme HDR or whatever they're calling it looks nice but I can see that as the next lens flair fad. Speaking of, the lens flair shown does look much more realistic now. I have to say though that from what I've seen lighting looks much more realistic now which has always been a complaint of mine in any "sim" game. Less videogamey and more natural. Color depth is impressive as are shadows. I'd like to see an early morning scene with dew on the grass and areas of patchy ground fog on fields with the sun light glistening off it and creating challenging lighting conditions. I have a feeling lighting will play a much bigger part this coming up generation if we're getting stuff this good looking this early on. I'm impressed.

Time to put on my Tom Cruise shades from Top Gun when I get this.
post #59 of 728
Thread Starter 
The Cloud places Forza 5 'on an entirely new plateau beyond anything else'

Dan Greenawalt fights back at accusations the game is missing features.

Forza 5 will be so good that it should be forgiven if it doesn't feature "every feature under the sun", Turn 10 creative director Dan Greenawalt has said.

Quizzed by ifcaracing about the lack of features such as simulated pit stops, tire wear, fuel consumption and more, Greenawalt said: "We feel that the true source of Forza entertainment comes from its overall execution and the emotional connection derived from its unparalleled immersive content.

"I feel that any details that are allegedly missing are far outweighed by our cutting edge graphics and physics. But it's not just these critical aspects; it's also (in the case of FM5) the new power of the Cloud that places us on an entirely new plateau beyond anything anyone has out there. So, I think we can be forgiven if we don't have every feature under the sun."

Greenawalt also made what appears to be a reference to Polyphony Digital's extended development periods for its Gran Turismo games, stating: "We'd like to have every good idea there is, but we have to draw lines too, otherwise we might take 5 years to produce the next version."

And in further defense of Forza and his team at Turn 10, Greenawalt added: "Seriously, we could make a hardcore race sim, but that's not what got us here. We can't take the path that others with less success take; we have to forge our own path.

"And as much as we try to be everything to everyone whether they are a car guy or not, we can only go so deep with any single feature if you know what I mean."

Forza 5 will be released alongside the Xbox One in November.


VideoGamer.com Analysis

It does seem harsh to criticise the Forza franchise for not including certain simulation features when the game has never attempted to be the ultimate simulation experience.


Videogamer
post #60 of 728
He has a point. It's never been the ultimate simulation experience and has never tried to quantify itself as that. He does come off as a bit defensive although I guess I would be too if I was being critiqued by people for lack of features that the series has never really taken seriously. Most likely these people won't purchase the game anyway so it's fruitless to try to appease everyone. Focus on what got you here (great physics, cutting edge graphics and gameplay) and turn out a fun product because in the end that's all that matters. If I wanted to make myself miserable by stressing over how realistic the game was and how extensive my setup is I'd stick to the any number of more realistic pc games out there. All I want though is for stuff like weather and day/night simulation to be included or if not be an option via the "cloud" in real time if I'm connected or via DLC.
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