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Halloween 35th Anniversary - Page 6

post #151 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I would love to see a source for this claim.

AMC, Cinemark, and Regal will have all of their screens - not necessarily including the ones acquired via business deals this year - converted to 4K by the end of this year. They came together several years ago to form a partnership (Digital Cinema Implementation Partners) to negotiate with Sony and other digital cinema vendors to roll out digital cinema systems across the board after all three companies began initial digital projector installations of Sony 4K projectors in specific markets. Those three companies make up the bulk of screens in the US and Sony has a lock on India, China, Japan, and UK markets with their 4K projectors, thanks to comprehensive leasing agreements with cinema chains. Sony has also inked leasing agreements with many smaller national chains like Alamo Drafthouse to install 4K projectors in all of their booths as well as regional chains like Atlas Cinemas which currently deploys a mix of Christie, Barco, and Sony projectors.
Edited by LexInVA - 10/1/13 at 11:22am
post #152 of 273
Nearly every screen in NYC is 2k.
post #153 of 273
Screenshot comparisons are up at caps-a-holic. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong to have bought and enjoyed this new disc, but I personally held off due to the lack of original mono... and now after the caps-a-holic comparisons, I feel I made the right choice for my own taste. The original blu-ray release is certainly too crunchy/contrasty compared with the more film-like 35th Anniversary disc, but the color timing of that older disc just "feels" more like HALLOWEEN to me.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=3100&disc2=3097&hd_multiID=1303#auswahl
post #154 of 273
I'm no expert but it's clear as day to me that the new Blu-ray's color timing is 100 times better then the 2007 one...the 2007 one is overly bright and shiny while the new one is more subdued...I'm sure this much more closely resembles the director's intent...even in screenshots the differences are painfully obvious
post #155 of 273
The photographer here again... Those caps-a-holic screenshots underscore what I've already expressed... The 35th Anniversary version is vastly superior to the 2007 Blu-ray in every regard! More natural, proper highlights and contrast, appropriate color levels, etc., etc., etc. The 2007 Blu-ray lacks detail and definition. Film grain is missing in action. The 2007 Blu-ray is crap by comparison! I honestly don't know how anyone can say they prefer it! The 2007 Blu-ray's color timing is cranked in a yellow direction and it affects everything in the image! White houses look yellow, trees, grass and even the pavement on the street looks wrong. The 2007 Blu-ray is an abomination!

Thank goodness we finally have a Blu-ray version worthy of the movie!

Edit: Look at the caps-a-holic comparison of the scene with Michael standing by the row of bushes. Click to look at the full screen image. There are clouds in the sky in the background. You can see the clouds on the 35th Anniversary disc. The clouds are completely blown out on the 2007 Blu-ray!

Mark
post #156 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

The 35th Anniversary version is vastly superior to the 2007 Blu-ray in every regard!
Except the audio, of course.
post #157 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

The original blu-ray release is certainly too crunchy/contrasty compared with the more film-like 35th Anniversary disc, but the color timing of that older disc just "feels" more like HALLOWEEN to me.
I'm inclined to agree. It's a funny thing about film. While I have no doubt whatsoever that the new color timing is "more accurate", many times with art we find that what is more accurate and what works better for us are two different things. I'm reminded of a Brandi Carlile quote. Interviewed regarding a moment in her song The Story in which her voice cracks, she indicated that, while that moment wasn't perhaps artistically polished as it could have been, it was nonetheless more emotionally true not to correct it. Much the same, as an audience, we sometimes latch onto a visual feel that, for us personally, feels truer emotionally even though it may not be as photographically perfect. To each their own. Where we run into problems as fans is when one permutation of a transfer is called "right" and another "wrong", and those preferring the "wrong" version are criticized. We should all remember that, when it comes to art, there is no right and no wrong. There is only what each of us find most pleasing personally. If we all accepted that instead of trying to argue for this aesthetic or that, the film community would be far less combative.
post #158 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croweyes1121 View Post

Except the audio, of course.

Once upon a time someone here made a definitive version of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly and provided files and instructions on how one could take the audio from one source, say the original mono from the 2007 release and sync it to the video of another source, say the 2013 release. It would be awesome if someone could provide similar guidance for Halloween.
post #159 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette View Post

Once upon a time someone here made a definitive version of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly and provided files and instructions on how one could take the audio from one source, say the original mono from the 2007 release and sync it to the video of another source, say the 2013 release. It would be awesome if someone could provide similar guidance for Halloween.
That would definitely be awesome! smile.gif
post #160 of 273
I have been reading through this thread. I have noticed the debate about which color timing and audio are "correct?" Some fans want it exactly as in the theater back in 1978. Others want it to portray the story as authenticly as possible. I can see both sides to this argument. The original 1978 theatrical release has some sentimental and nestalgic value. Making the scenery more automn-like helps authenticly portray the story. I understand not everyone watches bonus material. I did, and the reason the dead leaves were scattered about was to make an attempt at creating a fall look while filming in May. I have been pondering the issue. This is John Carpenter's "Halloween." So if there can only be one release, if he still owns and has complete control over it, he should make sure that HIS vision of it is being brought to life whether it takes digital color correction or leaving well-enough alone. In the end, he's the one telling the story, and it should be through HIS prospective.
post #161 of 273
The more I hear "Director-Approved/Supervised" or "Director of Photography-Approved/Supervised", the more confusing it gets. Can't they just work together to agree on something for home video? Shouldn't they be working together anyway?
post #162 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

The photographer here again... Those caps-a-holic screenshots underscore what I've already expressed... The 35th Anniversary version is vastly superior to the 2007 Blu-ray in every regard! More natural, proper highlights and contrast, appropriate color levels, etc., etc., etc. The 2007 Blu-ray lacks detail and definition. Film grain is missing in action. The 2007 Blu-ray is crap by comparison! I honestly don't know how anyone can say they prefer it! The 2007 Blu-ray's color timing is cranked in a yellow direction and it affects everything in the image! White houses look yellow, trees, grass and even the pavement on the street looks wrong. The 2007 Blu-ray is an abomination!

Thank goodness we finally have a Blu-ray version worthy of the movie!

Edit: Look at the caps-a-holic comparison of the scene with Michael standing by the row of bushes. Click to look at the full screen image. There are clouds in the sky in the background. You can see the clouds on the 35th Anniversary disc. The clouds are completely blown out on the 2007 Blu-ray!

I have been saying that before the new BD came out, the 2007 was just too lifted in the mid and upper tones and really hurt the day time shots. It is done a lot and it really bugs me when they do this to 'scary' films, Friday the 13th (original) and Predator (dnr version) were just way too bright.
post #163 of 273
More 1080P screenshots from the new 35th Ann. edition:

http://www.doblu.com/2013/10/04/halloween-35th-anniversary-edition-blu-ray-review/

This is an amazing film transfer for what was originally a low-budget film. I could see how one might say the new color correction didn't go far enough in altering the daylight exteriors under the Californian sun. The grass is a little too green for what is purportedly Illinois in the Fall, but it really doesn't bother me that much. Everything else is done with such perfection on the new transfer that it is a petty complaint.
post #164 of 273
I still don't understand how anyone can look at any of the screenshot comparisons and say that the 2007 version looks better...it's a night/day difference...it's not even about personal preference but rather about director intent and preserving that look as closely as possible...the 35th Anv. edition is still probably not 100% correct in its color timing but it's 1000 percent better then the 2007 version...unless you like overly bright images in every frame
post #165 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

I still don't understand how anyone can look at any of the screenshot comparisons and say that the 2007 version looks better...it's a night/day difference...it's not even about personal preference but rather about director intent and preserving that look as closely as possible...the 35th Anv. edition is still probably not 100% correct in its color timing but it's 1000 percent better then the 2007 version...unless you like overly bright images in every frame

I'll try to explain my PERSONAL preference for the 2007 disc, which I do not project onto anyone else. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a professional cinematographer and I've made my living shooting feature films since 1996. I've color-timed photochemically and I've been through many digital color sessions. My first 18 features were all shot on film (35mm and Super-16), and my last 9 have been digital formats (RED, RED Epic, Alexa, Sony F35). I'm a film-grain lover and despise excessive DNR when it rears its ugly head.

I'm aware that the OPINION I'm about to express is inconsistent with my claim to be a "purist", and is considered heresy by many in my profession. Ready?...

I don't care what HALLOWEEN looked like in the theaters. I don't say that about many other releases, but HALLOWEEN is special to me. It's in my personal "Top Five" of all time, and I grew up with it on VHS. Blech... I know, I know. I was seven years old when it came out in 1978 and I didn't have the kind of parents that would take me to see it. My experience of HALLOWEEN has always been "lo-fi", with mono sound and frankly less-than-stellar image. I embraced the Criterion laserdisc and was thrilled to have the original aspect ratio back, but I did NOT like the THX dvd since I felt it went too far with digital manipulation of the colors. For me, the 2007 disc is the perfect balance: mono soundtrack with an image that's good enough to call "HD" but lo-fi enough to bring back my own personal memories of growing up with this film. The new disc is beautifully textured and renders detail far better than the old, but it just doesn't feel like "my" HALLOWEEN. Look at capture #12 on the caps-a-holic site:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=3100&disc2=3097&cap1=28539&cap2=28486&art=full&image=11&hd_multiID=1303&action=1&lossless=#vergleich

The entire framed is "baked" with blue tint on the new release. That's just not something I respond to as a DP or as a viewer. I prefer the multiple color temperatures going on in the 2007 disc. And I know the older 2007 disc is actually TOO colorful, so you know what?... I simply reduce the color saturation on my projector when I watch it and it feels right again. The sad fact is, I have "re-color-timing" notes for about 1/4 of the discs I own. LOTR FELLOWSHIP Extended Edition and the new TERMINATOR release are too green to my eyes... but I have an offset for those. The Image release of John Carpenter's ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 is too washed out for me... but I have an offset for that. (I'm interested to see the new SCREAM FACTORY release of this!)

Well that's it. I don't fault anyone for loving this new and admittedly very film-like presentation. My story is my own, and I'm sticking with the 2007 release.
post #166 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

I'll try to explain my PERSONAL preference for the 2007 disc, which I do not project onto anyone else. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a professional cinematographer and I've made my living shooting feature films since 1996. I've color-timed photochemically and I've been through many digital color sessions. My first 18 features were all shot on film (35mm and Super-16), and my last 9 have been digital formats (RED, RED Epic, Alexa, Sony F35). I'm a film-grain lover and despise excessive DNR when it rears its ugly head.

I'm aware that the OPINION I'm about to express is inconsistent with my claim to be a "purist", and is considered heresy by many in my profession. Ready?...

I don't care what HALLOWEEN looked like in the theaters. I don't say that about many other releases, but HALLOWEEN is special to me. It's in my personal "Top Five" of all time, and I grew up with it on VHS. Blech... I know, I know. I was seven years old when it came out in 1978 and I didn't have the kind of parents that would take me to see it. My experience of HALLOWEEN has always been "lo-fi", with mono sound and frankly less-than-stellar image. I embraced the Criterion laserdisc and was thrilled to have the original aspect ratio back, but I did NOT like the THX dvd since I felt it went too far with digital manipulation of the colors. For me, the 2007 disc is the perfect balance: mono soundtrack with an image that's good enough to call "HD" but lo-fi enough to bring back my own personal memories of growing up with this film. The new disc is beautifully textured and renders detail far better than the old, but it just doesn't feel like "my" HALLOWEEN. Look at capture #12 on the caps-a-holic site:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=3100&disc2=3097&cap1=28539&cap2=28486&art=full&image=11&hd_multiID=1303&action=1&lossless=#vergleich

The entire framed is "baked" with blue tint on the new release. That's just not something I respond to as a DP or as a viewer. I prefer the multiple color temperatures going on in the 2007 disc. And I know the older 2007 disc is actually TOO colorful, so you know what?... I simply reduce the color saturation on my projector when I watch it and it feels right again. The sad fact is, I have "re-color-timing" notes for about 1/4 of the discs I own. LOTR FELLOWSHIP Extended Edition and the new TERMINATOR release are too green to my eyes... but I have an offset for those. The Image release of John Carpenter's ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 is too washed out for me... but I have an offset for that. (I'm interested to see the new SCREAM FACTORY release of this!)

Well that's it. I don't fault anyone for loving this new and admittedly very film-like presentation. My story is my own, and I'm sticking with the 2007 release.

I respect your right to prefer whichever one you want to prefer. But you're claims for why you prefer one over the other aren't consistent. First you say you want to be reminded of the VHS experience. Well, of the two Blu-rays the color timing of the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray is closest to the VHS. Second you link a caps-a-holic frame where you feel the 35th Anniversary version is "baked" in blue. No, it's not. It's the 2007 version that is "baked" with a yellow tint and hideously over-boosted color. AND, the blue tint feeling is part of the Carpenter's and Cundey's original intent for those scenes.

It's inconsistent to claim you want to see the one "you grew up on" but then pick the one that is farthest from that appearance.

Mark
post #167 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

I simply reduce the color saturation on my projector when I watch it and it feels right again. The sad fact is, I have "re-color-timing" notes for about 1/4 of the discs I own. LOTR FELLOWSHIP Extended Edition and the new TERMINATOR release are too green to my eyes... but I have an offset for those. The Image release of John Carpenter's ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 is too washed out for me... but I have an offset for that. (I'm interested to see the new SCREAM FACTORY release of this!)

Well that's it. I don't fault anyone for loving this new and admittedly very film-like presentation. My story is my own, and I'm sticking with the 2007 release.

that's pretty cool that you re-color time your discs...are you referring to the new Terminator remaster that was released recently?......but can't you also just buy the 35th Anv. Halloween and re-time it that way as well?...either way enjoy whatever version you feel looks best to you
post #168 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

I respect your right to prefer whichever one you want to prefer. But you're claims for why you prefer one over the other aren't consistent.

It's inconsistent to claim you want to see the one "you grew up on" but then pick the one that is farthest from that appearance.

Mark

I hear and respect your perspective on this... but that simply isn't my own experience. To my eyes and my sense memory of a lifetime with this movie, I'm being completely consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

that's pretty cool that you re-color time your discs...are you referring to the new Terminator remaster that was released recently?......but can't you also just buy the 35th Anv. Halloween and re-time it that way as well?...either way enjoy whatever version you feel looks best to you

I've found that you can quite effectively de-saturate and shift colors that exist for the entire running length of the movie (such as the "green bake" with the titles I referenced), but you can't add color where none exist (like the day exteriors of the new HALLOWEEN disc) and you can't effectively deal with a movie that isn't consistently changed from first frame to last. Plus, I wouldn't even go down that road with the new HALLOWEEN release 'cuz the lack of original mono is an automatic deal-breaker for me personally.
post #169 of 273
What is the big difference between the original mono and the mono on the new release?

Besides maybe a click sound or not a click sound and someone's voice being muffled in one spot (or is that on the new stereo version?)

Is the new mono audio more compressed? Overly expanded? Less distorted, more distorted?

Though it would be nice to have the mono soundtrack the way it was from the original recordings, everything I've been reading about the new multichannel audio, it's spectacular.
post #170 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

Second you link a caps-a-holic frame where you feel the 35th Anniversary version is "baked" in blue. No, it's not. It's the 2007 version that is "baked" with a yellow tint and hideously over-boosted color. AND, the blue tint feeling is part of the Carpenter's and Cundey's original intent for those scenes

for me skin tone is one of the biggest things I look for in terms of accurate color...this screenshot of the 2007 version looks like everyone's face has been airbrushed while the 2013 version looks much more natural to me...the fine detail in the clothing is also lost in the 2007 version- look carefully at the sweaters both characters are wearing...as someone linked to earlier you can't even see the clouds in one of those screencaps from the earlier version...everything looks so sun-glossed in the 2007 version in nearly every screenie (even the night-time shots)

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=3100&disc2=3097&cap1=28533&cap2=28480&art=full&image=5&hd_multiID=1303&action=1&lossless=1#vergleich
post #171 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette View Post

Once upon a time someone here made a definitive version of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly and provided files and instructions on how one could take the audio from one source, say the original mono from the 2007 release and sync it to the video of another source, say the 2013 release. It would be awesome if someone could provide similar guidance for Halloween.

I haven't got the 35th version yet, but according to the caps-a-holic reports the playtimes of both releases are identical which should make this very easy. Download and install tsMuxeR (it's freeware). Open it, then drag and drop the main movie files from both discs to the Input files window (these will be the largest m2ts files in each respective blu ray's Stream directory btw). From there you'll be able to select which video/audio tracks to keep, so I would just uncheck the mono track on the new release and uncheck everything but the mono on the old release. Then select "M2TS muxing" under Output and press start. That should do it. I plan to do this myself once I get the new version.
post #172 of 273
Quote:
but you can't add color where none exist (like the day exteriors of the new HALLOWEEN disc)

Duh? Here's a grab of the disc with the color restored. All you have to do is shift the yellow in the picture. They f---d up the color timing, plain and simple.

Also, movies aren't supposed to look natural, especially Panavision films (these aren't Jean Luc Godard movies), ie they are supposed to look like the german Assault on Precinct 13 look and not like all the other versions of Assault -- hopefully, fans get in the dance to fix the color timing to something akin to the 99 approved DVD by award winning color timer Adam Adams, and soon.


Edited by dvdvision - 10/7/13 at 9:00am
post #173 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdvision View Post

Duh? Here's a grab of the disc with the color restored. All you have to do is shift the yellow in the picture. They f---d up the color timing, plain and simple.

Also, movies aren't supposed to look natural, especially Panavision films (these aren't Jean Luc Godard movies), ie they are supposed to look like the german Assault on Precinct 13 look and not like all the other versions of Assault -- hopefully, fans get in the dance to fix the color timing to something akin to the 99 approved DVD by award winning color timer Adam Adams, and soon.

Revisionist. I am 100% convinced the theatrical presentation never looked like the THX DVD. I won't be getting in the dance. The 35th Anniversary Blu-ray is absolutely gorgeous and I'm also convinced it is the ONLY one that was TRULY supervised by Dean Cundey! (Other than the original theatrical release, of course.)

Mark
Edited by Mark Booth - 10/7/13 at 4:59pm
post #174 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdvision View Post

Duh? Here's a grab of the disc with the color restored. All you have to do is shift the yellow in the picture. They f---d up the color timing, plain and simple.

Also, movies aren't supposed to look natural, especially Panavision films (these aren't Jean Luc Godard movies), ie they are supposed to look like the german Assault on Precinct 13 look and not like all the other versions of Assault -- hopefully, fans get in the dance to fix the color timing to something akin to the 99 approved DVD by award winning color timer Adam Adams, and soon.

What do you mean by "shift the yellow"?
post #175 of 273
A poster did it on the horror forum. A slight shift in the Y section of the CMYK gives this result which is insanely like the 99 DVD.

The 99 DVD was color timed by an award winning colorist (same guy who did Titanic), and the production diary clearly spells how he fixed the previously horrible look of the film. The reasons why are detailed there.

Now they went back to the horrible look. Unlike, say Star Wars, which was a film where the color timing was precisely decided on release, this film was a low budget, trashy release that eventually became a hit. There was no control on how it looked then, and the 99 version was the look that would have been if the necessary time and money was given to the filmmakers.

Now they went back to the crap look and everybody goes "hooray! the original look!". Well it's trash folks.

I'm getting the UK steelbook, but won't open it. I'm waiting for fans to fix this, since the people in charge messed up the release, big time, re: colors and mono mix.
post #176 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

What is the big difference between the original mono and the mono on the new release?

Besides maybe a click sound or not a click sound and someone's voice being muffled in one spot (or is that on the new stereo version?)

Is the new mono audio more compressed? Overly expanded? Less distorted, more distorted?

Though it would be nice to have the mono soundtrack the way it was from the original recordings, everything I've been reading about the new multichannel audio, it's spectacular.
You really need to just read the entire thread. All your questioned are answered.
post #177 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdvision View Post

A poster did it on the horror forum. A slight shift in the Y section of the CMYK gives this result which is insanely like the 99 DVD.

The 99 DVD was color timed by an award winning colorist (same guy who did Titanic), and the production diary clearly spells how he fixed the previously horrible look of the film. The reasons why are detailed there.

Now they went back to the horrible look. Unlike, say Star Wars, which was a film where the color timing was precisely decided on release, this film was a low budget, trashy release that eventually became a hit. There was no control on how it looked then, and the 99 version was the look that would have been if the necessary time and money was given to the filmmakers.

Now they went back to the crap look and everybody goes "hooray! the original look!". Well it's trash folks.

I'm getting the UK steelbook, but won't open it. I'm waiting for fans to fix this, since the people in charge messed up the release, big time, re: colors and mono mix.

This really shouldn't have to be said but...

That you prefer a revisionist version that was created by someone who was never involved in the original production of the film, does not in any way make the original, properly-timed version "trash" or "f---d up." Stating your opinions and preferences in such a way does not lend them any more legitimacy, but rather makes you come off as uninformed.
post #178 of 273
Uh... Both Cundy and Carpenter were involved with that transfer. They didn't just say "Go do what you want." They were intimately involved with that release because all prior DVD's were so badly screwed up.
post #179 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Uh... Both Cundy and Carpenter were involved with that transfer. They didn't just say "Go do what you want." They were intimately involved with that release because all prior DVD's were so badly screwed up.
That's not the way I remember reading about it, but if what you say is true, then how do you explain this release? Did Cundey (and Carpenter, who also saw this new transfer according to Cundey) change his mind? Because he seems pretty happy about this version, if the interviews that have been posted are in any way accurate...

And there's really no debating that the look of that release was (and is) revisionist. If you prefer that look, great, but it's not the way the film originally looked.
post #180 of 273
I received the disc a few days ago and probably won't watch it till sometime near Halloween!
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