or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › Halloween 35th Anniversary
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Halloween 35th Anniversary - Page 3

post #61 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingster View Post

That obvious enough, but the only reason people are using that VHS screenshot is to show that the THX DVD transfer has clearly had the treelines altered to look autumnal.

Exactly! I don't see the VHS as being "reference", I see it as additional evidence to counter claims from some that those golden amber leaves were present during the 1978 theatrical screenings. Hogwash!

But, again, it's all a moot point. Cundey has told us what the film looked like in the theaters in 1978 and the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray is that look and feel!

Mark
post #62 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I have no reason to doubt Cundey's statement, but I must point out that a crummy old VHS transfer cannot be used as a reference to what the movie's original theatrical prints may or may not have looked like.


Hard to evaluate things when they're cooked by a darbler...
post #63 of 273


Mine comes tomorrow.
For a little autumnal mirth, my kid recently tried on one of my Myers masks. Needless to say, my wife was NOT amused....
post #64 of 273
Okay, I found this from 1999:
Quote:
Halloween has been fully restored under the supervision of Lucasfilm's THX Digital Mastering Services. The video was transferred by award-winning colorist Adam Adams from a new 35mm inter positive (mode (sic) from the original camera negative) and approved by the film's cinematographer Dean Cundey.

Source: http://www.dvdmg.com/halloween.shtml

That implies that Dean Cundey approved Adam Adams' work. It does NOT suggest that Cundey supervised the actual process.

Conversely, for the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray release, I found this:
Quote:
Trancas International Films, Compass International Pictures and Halloweenmovies.com are proud to announce award winning cinematographer Dean Cundey is supervising the new high definition transfer of John Carpenter's Halloween for the upcoming 35th Anniversary Blu-ray

Source: http://halloweenmovies.com/?p=1550

"Supervising" implies much more involvement versus just "approving."

I don't know how deep Cundey's involvement was with the THX DVD release, but it is pretty apparent he was quite involved with this new Blu-ray release! And he said just that in the interview I linked earlier!

Adding it all up, my mind is convinced... Adam Adams at THX made these dramatic changes to the color timing on the 1999 THX DVD and those changes were run by Cundey for his approval. Basically, he simply signed off on the release. Period. It's my belief that, in that recent interview, when Cundey referred to previous iterations on DVD getting the transfer wrong, he was referring to the THX DVD as one of those examples. With or without his approval, he knows it was wrong. Likewise, the new Blu-ray is the first time it's been done right!

Mark
post #65 of 273
About that THX DVD edition;

The fact that Adam Adams is not just a colorist, but an award-winning colorist proves he's a lot better with Crayons than I am.


I agree, the new Blu-ray is the first time Halloween (1978) was done right!


I'll be buying a copy of this soon!
post #66 of 273
Here's something that dates back to May of 1999:

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_the_beginning.shtml

It's a production diary for the 1999 THX-approved transfer (the one that ended up with golden trees instead of green trees). It's a multi-page site with lots of information about the process of creating the 1999 THX DVD. Lots of names are mentioned, including Adam Adams, the colorist at THX.

Here's the important part: Dean Cundey isn't mentioned in the production diary at all! eek.gif

If Cundey was so intimately involved in the 1999 THX transfer—if he "supervised" the process—then how come his name isn't mentioned anywhere on that site's pages?

I stand by comments in post #65. At best, Cundey simply put a stamp of approval on the 1999 THX DVD transfer. The 35th Anniversary Blu-ray is the first time Cundey has been intimately involved in bringing us the filmmaker's originally intended look and feel!

Mark
post #67 of 273
I have confirmed 100% that the new "original mono" track is not the original mono. I have plenty of evidence of this if anyone is interested. But anyone who wants that original track should stay away from this disc.
post #68 of 273
You know that people will demand such evidence, why not post it? Just stirring the pot for fun?
post #69 of 273
I watched the disc last night--folks forget all this screen grab talk and debate--just watch this thing--it is beautiful.--As for the greenery--there is still enough brown in there with fallen leaves, etc to keep the autumnal feel--and my lovely blues are there in the night shots--this disc is great. I also found the new audio to be powerful. I am a happy camper-finally!
post #70 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

You know that people will demand such evidence, why not post it? Just stirring the pot for fun?
Not at all. I offered to post it if people wanted it. I honestly just wasn't sure if there was enough interest. I've sent this in to Bill at thedigitalbits as well. Enjoy.
http://chirb.it/cqIrdm
post #71 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croweyes1121 View Post

Not at all. I offered to post it if people wanted it. I honestly just wasn't sure if there was enough interest. I've sent this in to Bill at thedigitalbits as well. Enjoy.
http://chirb.it/cqIrdm

How long is your ban on the other forum?

Mark
post #72 of 273
Until Friday. And I doubt I'll post there anymore. People over there are far more interested in spreading misinformation and ganging up on people who are just trying to dig into things like this than actually finding out answers to these kinds of issues. I should definitely have just not responded to many of the points that were obviously made just for the sake of stirring the pot, but I had a genuine interest in settling this for people hinging their purchase on it. And nothing upsets me more than knowing I have the correct information to give out and being persistently argued with over it, adding to others' confusion. I feel I have to defend that. To my detriment, I suppose. But lesson learned, I guess. You keep engaging someone enough over there, and you can get them banned for continuing to discuss. :shrug: Thanks for asking, though. smile.gif
Edited by Croweyes1121 - 9/26/13 at 8:17am
post #73 of 273
Croweyes... I for one sincerely appreciate all your revelations regarding the "original mono" track. I was following the developments in the other forum, but I'm not a member over there so I couldn't chime in. I can definitively say: you have saved me from making a purchase I would have regretted, and I genuinely thank you for that. I think you got treated pretty horribly over there. Your type of concern over the mono track is EXACTLY what these forums should be about, and the information you provided is EXACTLY the reason I was even lurking in that other forum's dark corridors. Sorry you got a raw deal over there... but suffice to say that you are appreciated by at least this one purist, who feels the only way to watch HALLOWEEN is with the true "original mono" track.
post #74 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

Croweyes... I for one sincerely appreciate all your revelations regarding the "original mono" track. I was following the developments in the other forum, but I'm not a member over there so I couldn't chime in. I can definitively say: you have saved me from making a purchase I would have regretted, and I genuinely thank you for that. I think you got treated pretty horribly over there. Your type of concern over the mono track is EXACTLY what these forums should be about, and the information you provided is EXACTLY the reason I was even lurking in that other forum's dark corridors. Sorry you got a raw deal over there... but suffice to say that you are appreciated by at least this one purist, who feels the only way to watch HALLOWEEN is with the true "original mono" track.
Wow. Thank you so, so much for this. Seriously, reading something like this from another fan who cares truly made my day. I appreciate the kind words more than you know. As you could probably tell from the audio I posted above, I DO get a bit TOO worked up over this, but it's only out of a love for film and a passion for its integrity that I argue points so strongly. I'm very glad that this helped you make a more informed purchase.
post #75 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

Croweyes... I for one sincerely appreciate all your revelations regarding the "original mono" track. I was following the developments in the other forum, but I'm not a member over there so I couldn't chime in. I can definitively say: you have saved me from making a purchase I would have regretted, and I genuinely thank you for that. I think you got treated pretty horribly over there. Your type of concern over the mono track is EXACTLY what these forums should be about, and the information you provided is EXACTLY the reason I was even lurking in that other forum's dark corridors. Sorry you got a raw deal over there... but suffice to say that you are appreciated by at least this one purist, who feels the only way to watch HALLOWEEN is with the true "original mono" track.

So, which release has this elusive "original mono track?"
post #76 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

So, which release has this elusive "original mono track?"
Every release that claimed to contain it up to this point has had it. The only other instance of a downmix I've heard was on disc two of the 1999 DVD (the theatrical version's mono was unaltered). So really, this is the only edition that's not even offered it as an option.
post #77 of 273
the 2007 blu-ray, the 1999 DVD.

This disc's mono is simply a very poor down mix of the Chance multichannel mix.

How I (and you) can tell:

*Thunder in the beginning.
*About 12 minutes in, Laurie's dad tells her to drop off the keys to the Meyers place- the dialogue is completely overwhelmed by the music. You cannot even make out what they are saying.
*When Annie is killed, there is now triangle in the music.
post #78 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

the 2007 blu-ray, the 1999 DVD.

This disc's mono is simply a very poor down mix of the Chance multichannel mix.

How I (and you) can tell:

*Thunder in the beginning.
*About 12 minutes in, Laurie's dad tells her to drop off the keys to the Meyers place- the dialogue is completely overwhelmed by the music. You cannot even make out what they are saying.
*When Annie is killed, there is now triangle in the music.
Exactly right on. I detail all of this in the following audio clip for those who want it: http://chirb.it/cqIrdm. I must say, it's incredibly refreshing to see people on this forum who know what the heck they're talking about! smile.gif
post #79 of 273
Ok, thanks.

I have to say it's pretty amusing the lengths "purists" will go...rejecting an upgrade in image detail and an image re-timed to be as accurate as possible to the original image by it's DOP. - the most detailed, accurate presentation of the film ever available for home presentation - ..all forsaken in lieu of things like triangles added to music, etc.

(Not that I'm exempt, we're all kooky here on some issues or another).
post #80 of 273
Croweyes--I have to applaud your attention to detail and the passion with which you approach this. It may not be a deal breaker for me, but there is no question that you are right and the audio is being labeled inaccurately on the packaging.
post #81 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croweyes1121 View Post

Not at all. I offered to post it if people wanted it. I honestly just wasn't sure if there was enough interest. I've sent this in to Bill at thedigitalbits as well. Enjoy.
http://chirb.it/cqIrdm

That is hardcore. Great job.
post #82 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Ok, thanks.

I have to say it's pretty amusing the lengths "purists" will go...rejecting an upgrade in image detail and an image re-timed to be as accurate as possible to the original image by it's DOP. - the most detailed, accurate presentation of the film ever available for home presentation - ..all forsaken in lieu of things like triangles added to music, etc.

(Not that I'm exempt, we're all kooky here on some issues or another).
I do definitely appreciate the upgrade on the visual side. It's certainly the best the film has looked at home. I just wish companies like Anchor Bay would release blu-rays that demonstrated an understanding that the visual is only half of the presentation.
post #83 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

That is hardcore. Great job.
LOL I need to update my signature to "I am hardcore". I (scarily enough) like the sound of that.
post #84 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

Just to be clear for those who didn't follow what happened on the other site, you have not watched this disc at all, right? And you have stated that you have no intentions of ever buying this title, right?
After being told repeatedly that I didn't know what I was talking about by people who *actually didn't* since I didn't actually own it, I bought it to prove to myself and others that I wasn't the one spreading misinformation. I promptly resold it.

I've never been anything if not rational and considerate of others. The same could not be said for those I was trying to reach on that thread. And so no, I don't feel any pressing need to inform those there of things they obviously have no interest in discovering.
post #85 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croweyes1121 View Post

Until Friday. And I doubt I'll post there anymore. People over there are far more interested in spreading misinformation and ganging up on people who are just trying to dig into things like this than actually finding out answers to these kinds of issues. I should definitely have just not responded to many of the points that were obviously made just for the sake of stirring the pot, but I had a genuine interest in settling this for people hinging their purchase on it. And nothing upsets me more than knowing I have the correct information to give out and being persistently argued with over it, adding to others' confusion. I feel I have to defend that. To my detriment, I suppose. But lesson learned, I guess. You keep engaging someone enough over there, and you can get them banned for continuing to discuss. :shrug: Thanks for asking, though. smile.gif
And I thought I was a hard @ss dedicated man. smile.gif I say good for you and THANK YOU! Some here might remember I was ripped to shreds, attacked personally and even received death threats in regards to the GLADIATOR fiasco. Heaven forbid I just post certain facts I learned. So many thanks for your doing what is right.

I have no problem with anyone buying this release and I am actually going to purchase it. But I'll go ahead and using this and the earlier release create my own definitive edition. cool.gif The THX DVD looks like HALLOWEEN (I'll explain) to me and I can recall interviews where Cundy and Carpenter said they supervised the color timing to get it right and make it look the way they wanted. I watched that DVD a hundred bleeping times and so now green leaves do not look like HALLOWEEN to my eyes. They just don't. It's like the remixed soundtrack for SUPERMAN that has all new sound effects. THAT is not SUPERMAN. Not after hearing it the way it was for two decades+. Same goes for Terminator. Or how about BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA? Ugh. mad.gif

As for the mono track, I have the older BD, the DVD and a laserdisc to mess with. What bothered me about the remixes was all the reverb added to the music.

Anyway, to each his own. I won't critisize anyone who looks at the this BD as a good thing and I just ask that those people not attack or criticize me for my opinion.

Happy movie viewing everybody.
post #86 of 273
More evidence that the 1999 THX DVD is completely revisionist! In a post in another forum, a person that owns the Criterion CAV Laserdisc has posted this:
Quote:
With all the disagreement about what constitues the original version of Halloween, it persuaded us to reconnect the LaserDisc player and dig out the Criterion CAV edition, and after the nostalgia cooled, we can report the following things

1) The greens of the bush Meyers is hiding behind are not quite as verdant as those found on the 35th edition, but are nowhere near approaching the orange of the more infamous copies.

2) As the Criterion edition uses the original mono mix, we can confirm that it does indeed contain a "clicking" as Pleasence tries to fire his empty gun. It only clicks once, and this is live sound - as recorded on set rather than added in a dubbing studio.

As Criterion as legendary for being anal about their materials, then the colour timing and audio will be as close as possible to the original source. LaserDisc was for enthusiasts who wanted the best and most accurate representations of their favourite films, not existing just to sell copies by making them more acceptable to the masses by altering their colours, grain, etc.

It's a pity that we threw out our old UK Media tape last year, but we suspect it would have been the same, save for the obvious restrictions of VHS and suspect prints.

BTW, the extras on the LaserDisc are terrific, but haven't been released anywhere else.

Source: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=8173295#post8173295

Two messages later, a different person posted this link to a screen shot from Criterion's site for the Laserdisc version:



Source: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=8173316#post8173316


With regard to the trees, quite obviously, the Criterion Laserdisc's color timing for that scene is far more similar to the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray and decidedly NOT similar to the color timing used on the 1999 THX DVD. The other areas of that scene have a deeper contrast than the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray, making thinks a bit more vibrant. Overly vibrant and contrasty, in my humble opinion.

The 1999 THX DVD is a revisionist release and it is NOT how the movie originally looked in theaters. PERIOD!

Mark
post #87 of 273
Croweyes... I listened to your manifesto. Although I believe the thx mono sounds superior, Im still not convinced it is the original. You left out the gun click argument which potentially shoots holes in your theory. I do applaud your efforts. I just wish you were more concerned about getting to the bottom of this instead of just proving your right.
post #88 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

The 1999 THX DVD is a revisionist release and it is NOT how the movie originally looked in theaters. PERIOD!
It's interesting, isn't it, how suddenly murky the whole revisionist / purist debate gets when people actually *like* the revisionism that's done. It shouldn't make any difference at all, but people allow it to. George Lucas certainly made things a lot easier on people by adding in crap that pretty much no one could stand. LOL
post #89 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Croweyes... I listened to your manifesto. Although I believe the thx mono sounds superior, Im still not convinced it is the original. You left out the gun click argument which potentially shoots holes in your theory. I do applaud your efforts. I just wish you were more concerned about getting to the bottom of this instead of just proving your right.
I definitely wouldn't have bought the new blu-ray just to prove I was right. I really cared about proving what was on this disc - to myself, and to others. I actually did consider adding in the gun click sound to what I said, but I considered it something that would only add confusion. Reason being, I personally believe that this wasn't done intentionally (and I have a theory which I'm going to look into here in about an hour to put it to bed, and you just reminded me of it - thanks!). I believe it was an element that was lost when this track was downmixed - most likely from the original Chase 5.1 audio mix on the 1999 DVD and not the new 7.1 remix on this release. The only evidence we have of the gun click not being in the film is from a (terrible quality) audio sample from an audience from 1979 (which can't be validated to my knowledge) and a german-dubbed VHS tape (the dubbed nature of which disqualifies it IMHO). So what we're left with is every other release containing said gun click except the 35th mono track. So I don't see how that shoots holes in anything I was saying...

EDIT: Also, see Mark's great post above about the Criterion release and their reputation for strict adherence to original source materials.
Edited by Croweyes1121 - 9/26/13 at 11:47am
post #90 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I have to say it's pretty amusing the lengths "purists" will go...rejecting an upgrade in image detail and an image re-timed to be as accurate as possible to the original image by it's DOP. - the most detailed, accurate presentation of the film ever available for home presentation - ..all forsaken in lieu of things like triangles added to music, etc.

For me, the preference for the mono track is about much more than "triangles added to the music"; it's the whole mix... it's the whole atmosphere. I've enjoyed HALLOWEEN all my life (I'm currently 42) and I know what HALLOWEEN is supposed to sound like. For me, it's an amazing lo-fi experience; the music isn't supposed to fill the sound-stage in the HALLOWEEN that I love, it's supposed to hit hard from the center. Music and sound effects comprise much more than half the film-watching experience... and I say that as a professional cinematographer who's been earning a living shooting feature films since 1996.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong for buying this new release; I'm simply saying it's not for me, due to the lack of the mono track that I've been enjoying for the last 30 years.
Edited by steel_breeze - 9/26/13 at 11:13am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Software
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › Halloween 35th Anniversary