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Help me build the cheapest AMD APU system for my needs - Page 2

post #31 of 120
I actually liked the AMD image over the Intel one...but then I have had bifocals since I was 2 years of age...

Level 5 was clearly the best, though.
post #32 of 120
I liked level 4 and 5 wink.gif
post #33 of 120
Thread Starter 
OK guys, if we could get back to the original topic for just a minute. After reading up and thinking about it over the past few days, I think I'm going to try to fix my computer instead of starting all over and buying all new components. Since I don't use MadVR, I don't think I am going to see any improvements in picture quality over what I already have in the AMD 5450. I already have a decent case, 4GB ram, SSD, and a working motherboard (presumably) so it just kind of feels like I'm throwing $200 at a problem that costs $30 to fix with a new power supply.

They don't sell this OEM mini ITX/Flex ATX replacement power supply anywhere, so aftermarket is all I'm going to get. I found some on ebay from a powerseller, $30 for a 250 watt replacement. Newegg has some but the reviews are pretty inconsistent on the cheaper models. Lots of complaints of fan noise and the PSU going bad. These little models have a 40mm fan cooling them, so it's never going to be dead silent, but neither was my original. I just wish there were some better options for PSU replacement. I could try a Pico-PSU for silence and heat saving, but I'd risk it not working if I don't get a higher watt model (more expensive).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250W-Power-Supply-HP-Pavilion-Slimline-5188-7521-/260713949580?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item3cb3c3298c

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007657%20600014011&IsNodeId=1&name=Mini%20ITX

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&docname=c01321559#N116

If the power supply fix works out, I could always just look to upgrade the CPU to it's max allowed for this motherboard, which is an AM2 65 watt X2 processor according to the motherboard specs. That would probably put me at an X2 5200+ at 2.7 Ghz. Passmark score would increase from the BE-2300 at 944 to 5200+ at 1342. A 30% increase for $10-20 off ebay. Would it even be worth it? It would cost $40-50 for the power supply and processor upgrade vs. $200 for a new setup that will be 2x as fast in cpu performance but graphics wise the same. Basically all I do is browse the web and use XBMC/WMC. The 1.9 Ghz BE-2300 has never really felt fast or slow, just kind of "gets the job done". The biggest performance improvement I had was upgrading to an SSD, and it was huge.

I would like to buy a new power supply by early afternoon so that I can get it shipped out before the weekend. I've been without my HTPC for a week and I just need to make a decision one way or another. Thoughts on my game plan? (quickly please).
Edited by StinDaWg - 6/14/13 at 4:25am
post #34 of 120
You are right. I did a quick test with EVR. Upscaling algorithm is surely better than biliear, it's like Lanczos. But the algorithm is fixed in the driver and you won't see any improvement by changing GPU, unless you use madVR (that does not use the driver's algorithm).

Basically CPU is not so important in video playback. Decoding and post-processing are done by GPU. The only case that a faster CPU is helpful is that GPU fails in decoding (e.g. 10bit encoded video), in which case BE-2300 1.9GHz is a bit slow.
post #35 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You are right. I did a quick test with EVR. Upscaling algorithm is surely better than biliear, it's like Lanczos. But the algorithm is fixed in the driver and you won't see any improvement by changing GPU, unless you use madVR (that does not use the driver's algorithm).
Using which AMD card? My 5450 looks like bilinear. I'm assuming you mean 6570/A6-5400k and higher?
Edited by StinDaWg - 6/14/13 at 5:04am
post #36 of 120
6570 is the best super low cost option if you need the next step up.
post #37 of 120
To OP:
Test your PSU with a paperclip jumper first to see if it powers up. Do you have a spare PSU to test the mobo, perhaps from another rig?
post #38 of 120
@ReneTHX. - I'd love to see more posts like those. Very interesting to me. I might start a new thread to discuss.
post #39 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

@ReneTHX. - I'd love to see more posts like those. Very interesting to me. I might start a new thread to discuss.
Yes, please, take all the MadVR stuff outta here, I'm trying to figure out my build. 75% of the posts are about MadVR and it doesn't help me at all.
post #40 of 120
OP you seem pretty simple in your demand but more complex in your desired result.

Performance and budget are often at odds with each other.

I think upgrading to a more modern CPU and socket might make sense- less energy, cooler and better performance. I'd just use an integrated chip to start and add a video card if you wanted to go MADVR. I'd rather spend more if budget now on CPU and only add the GPU if you needed it.

Personally your machine is worth upgrading IMO. You'll be happy if you did.
post #41 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruiner View Post

To OP:
Test your PSU with a paperclip jumper first to see if it powers up. Do you have a spare PSU to test the mobo, perhaps from another rig?
I tried the paperclip trick, it doesn't start. I don't have any spare PSU. Considering the power supply is 6+ years old and I run it pretty much 24/7, I'm surprised it lasted this long.
post #42 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

OP you seem pretty simple in your demand but more complex in your desired result.

Performance and budget are often at odds with each other.

I think upgrading to a more modern CPU and socket might make sense- less energy, cooler and better performance. I'd just use an integrated chip to start and add a video card if you wanted to go MADVR. I'd rather spend more if budget now on CPU and only add the GPU if you needed it.

Personally your machine is worth upgrading IMO. You'll be happy if you did.

The BE-2300 is only 45 watts which is actually lower than either the G1610 or A6-5400K. At this point I just need some suggestions on power supply replacements, and whether it's worth it to upgrade the CPU to a 2.7 Ghz X2 5200+ for $10-20.

I could definitely use a more modern upgrade, but at this point I think my money is better spent elsewhere. If I fix the power supply, I would be fine running this machine for another year or so. This caught me completely off guard and left me scrambling for parts to throw together in a new rig. I'd rather have time to do this slowly and look for better deals without feeling rushed to put something together that I might not want or need at the moment. I just want my damn pc back so I can get back to watching tv and movies. I'm getting bored at night.
post #43 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You are right. I did a quick test with EVR. Upscaling algorithm is surely better than biliear, it's like Lanczos. But the algorithm is fixed in the driver and you won't see any improvement by changing GPU, unless you use madVR (that does not use the driver's algorithm).
Using which AMD card? My 5450 looks like bilinear. I'm assuming you mean 6570/A6-5400k and higher?

I tested with HD 6450 and HD 7770.
post #44 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I tested with HD 6450 and HD 7770.
Even more interesting. The 6450 is only 1 step above my card and is passive.

6450 160 stream processors
5450 80 stream processors

Seems like all you need for high quality dxva scaling and vector deinterlacing is a 6450. No need to go for the more expensive 6570 with a fan. I might just set up a deal alert on slickdeals and wait until the 6450 hits $10-15.
post #45 of 120
Thread Starter 
Hmm, after some more digging in a huge thread at HardForum, it seems I can upgrade all the way to an AMD Phenom 9350e Quad-Core, which puts me at a passmark of 2219. Very similar to what I would be getting with an A6-5400k or G1610. Still only 65 watts.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1224011
post #46 of 120
Seasonic makes a Flex ATX/mini ITX power supply.

Seasonic SS-250U 80+ $44 @ Superbiiz (imicros).

FSP is also a good brand.
post #47 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

Seasonic makes a Flex ATX/mini ITX power supply.

Seasonic SS-250U 80+ $44 @ Superbiiz (imicros).

FSP is also a good brand.

Interesting. I'm not sure if I'm convinced it would work any better than the cheaper ebay models though. The design looks the same right down to the fan size and placement. It doesn't look like it has the mini 24 pin motherboard connector I need either (or do I)? I know I have a mini 24 pin motherboard but I've read conflicting reports on whether you can just plug a 20/4 connector into it anyways or if you need the specific 24 pin cable.




Edited by StinDaWg - 6/14/13 at 9:32am
post #48 of 120
Thread Starter 
Anyone have any thoughts on whether a Pico-PSU would work in my system? I honestly don't think I'm going to be happy with the fan noise coming from these little 40mm 4000+ RPM fans that are in all the Flex ATX cases. All I have in my case is a 45W processor, max 19W GPU, an SSD, and 4GB ram.
Edited by StinDaWg - 6/14/13 at 9:48am
post #49 of 120
Just get the cheapest unit you can get to get your rig 'back on the road'. It's an old platform, so worth the risk of another failure, like putting salvaged parts in an old beater car.
Consider the picoPSU as a bridge to your next system.
post #50 of 120
Thread Starter 
If I can put a 65 watt Phenom Quad-Core in here with a dead silent Pico-PSU I think I would be more happy for $70-80 than I would paying $200 for a complete new build that won't be dead silent and won't be any more powerful.

I've read several reviews on the fans of the Flex ATX PSU models and they all complain of loud fan noise. I just don't think it's possible for a 40mm 4000-8000 RPM fan to be quiet. My case won't fit a regular ATX PSU. If I'm going to keep this build my only option is a Pico-PSU. I just need to know if it will work and what model I need. I've read of people powering i5s with them so I don't see why it wouldn't work in my scenario. The OEM PSU I was using before it died is 160 watts, and it lasted 6 years of 24/7 use. I know the Picos are much more efficient, and they come in anywhere from 80-160 watts.
Edited by StinDaWg - 6/14/13 at 10:39am
post #51 of 120
It's hard to say if a picoPSU will work. My old Antec EA-380D, AMD 5050e, Gigabyte 780G, HIS 5670 system pulled close to 200W when I measured it with a Kill-a-Watt way back when. It's hard to say what a Phenom quad-core + HD6450 will pull.
post #52 of 120
Your slimline is a surprising popular class. Check out this thread if not already:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1224011

You can find multiple options of replacement PSU. If you have a spare PSU, you can get a PSU adapter cable (around $8) and see if you can power up your slimline.
post #53 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

It's hard to say if a picoPSU will work. My old Antec EA-380D, AMD 5050e, Gigabyte 780G, HIS 5670 system pulled close to 200W when I measured it with a Kill-a-Watt way back when. It's hard to say what a Phenom quad-core + HD6450 will pull.
6450/5450 use 20 watts max.
post #54 of 120
These power figures are from a Kill-A-Watt meter on my HTPC using WMC7 and a G620 CPU.

1) I started with an OTA dual tuner card & when playing back a recording the HTPC used 42 watts.
Recording 2 programs at the same time did not use any additional power.

2) Then added an HD6450 video card w/fan & when playing from OTA it used 47 watts.

3) Then added a 2nd tuner card & when recording 4 programs while playing another the HTPC used 56 watts.

The difference between #1 and #2 is only 5 watts. IOW the HD6450 uses 5 watts.

I'm surprised at the difference between #2 and #3. If recording did not use any significant power that means adding a tuner card increased power usage by 9 watts. This does not seem right as the tuner cards do not have a heat sink or fan. IOW they don't need to dissipate a lot of heat. Maybe the case or PSU fan kicked into a higher speed or the video card fan speed increased. I don't know.

But even 56 vs 42 is only 14 watts.
post #55 of 120
14 watts is nothing.

14 x 24 x365 divided by 1000 = 122kwh's.

122kwh's x .07 = $8.58 per year or .71 cents per month.

Considering cable probably cost $100 a month, a blu ray costs $20 etc... 71 cents per month is nothing if the video card provides you enjoyment and better picture quality.

And-

Actually the system is not running 24/7 at full so the real world costs is probably closer to $5 a year and .40 cents a month.
post #56 of 120
ReneTHX deleted his awesome pictures and replies from this thread?

I started a thread here to discuss the details about differences in rendering and hardware:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1477339/so-youve-built-your-htpc-now-what-is-next-how-to-get-the-ultimate-picture-and-sound-quality-from-your-htpc-madvr-svp-xbmc-mediabrowser-jriver/0_100#post_23429272

I was hoping to quote some of his info to get it going. I loved the detailed pictures demonstrating MADVR level 1,2,3 Intel, AMD etc.....
post #57 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I liked level 4 and 5 wink.gif

Where did the pictures go ?
post #58 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Actually the system is not running 24/7 at full so the real world costs is probably closer to $5 a year and .40 cents a month.

In sleep mode it uses only 2 watts.
post #59 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I liked level 4 and 5 wink.gif

Where did the pictures go ?

I deleted them per the op's request. I reposted them in your thread.
post #60 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruiner View Post

Just get the cheapest unit you can get to get your rig 'back on the road'. It's an old platform, so worth the risk of another failure, like putting salvaged parts in an old beater car.

After looking around I think I'm going to get a cheap PSU and $6 cpu cooler. If I went with the Seasonic it would cost $43+7 for the mini 24 pin adapter I need. Pico-PSU would be $50-60 plus the adapter cable, and I don't even know if it would work. This PSU I found on ebay is $30 and comes with the adapter. As for the quality of it I don't know, but they are a powerseller with 28k reviews at 99.8%. Pretty much all they sell are power supplies. Unless all the reviews are fake it should at least get my system back running.

NEW HP Pavilion Slimline P/N PN 5188-7520 Replacement PSU


ARCTIC Alpine 64 GT Rev. 2 CPU Cooler - AMD, Supports Multiple Sockets, 80mm PWM Fan at 22dBA
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