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The New Apple Mac Pro: The Ultimate Multimedia Machine - Page 2

post #31 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

No Mac to date has 3D support capability for PowerDVD 13 or any other media program. It should be mentioned for future possibilities if capable.

Are you sure about that?

http://www.examiner.com/article/macbook-pro-can-output-3d-movies
Quote:
"3D fanatics will be happy to know that you don't need any special 3D equipment to transform your 3D movies from your MacBook Pro to a 3D television set. I"

AFAIK, if you use a Mac Pro as a Windows machine, there are no limitations that would prevent 3D output. It's all in the OS and the video card drivers.
post #32 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Are you sure about that?

http://www.examiner.com/article/macbook-pro-can-output-3d-movies
AFAIK, if you use a Mac Pro as a Windows machine, there are no limitations that would prevent 3D output. It's all in the OS and the video card drivers.
There has been no capability or support for Blu-ray 3D MANDATORY formats: the Frame Packing 3D format at either 720p60/50 or 1080p24/25 and where HDMI 1.4 is required.
post #33 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

There has been no capability or support for Blu-ray 3D MANDATORY formats: the Frame Packing 3D format at either 720p60/50 or 1080p24/25

OK but just to get to core of the issue, that's a restriction in Mac OS. That's not a hardware restriction per se. Run Windows on the Mac hardware (which is really a PC anyway), problem solved.
Edited by imagic - 6/13/13 at 9:18pm
post #34 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

OK but just to get to core of the issue, that's a restriction in Mac OS. That's not a hardware restriction per se. Run Windows on the Mac hardware (which is really a PC anyway), problem solved.
It has been definitely a hardware issue with no HDMI 1.4 or without an HDCP capable handshake.
post #35 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

It has been definitely a hardware issue with no HDMI 1.4 or without an HDCP capable handshake.

This article is not about what used to be. Moving right along... wink.gif
post #36 of 99
Rich snob's toy to tinker with...

And before you Apple fans start bashing, hear me out.

Take so much physical power and put it into a box, or cylinder, and then slap an Apple logo on it, and people that have the funds will jump on it just to say that they have one, but will only use a portion of the hardware's capabilities... For the most part anyway...


It is like the rich kid that goes out and buys a new Dodge Viper (they are coming back), and has no idea what to do with the power. He buys it because "he can." Then, he drives it out of the lot, guns it, loses control, crashes, and dies. The kid didn't know what to do with that machine and while it was cool for a while to talk about getting it, not using it the way that it was intended was just a waste. (That actually was a true story about what happened back about 7 years ago in West Des Moines, Iowa.)

Just because the rich kid could afford the power of the Viper, doesn't mean that he knew how to do anything with it more than a more economical option.

I love technology, and love the idea of all of that power, but when people have blinders on saying that Apple is the *only* option are silly. I used to work as a Mac support tech years ago for a publishing company. They had just as many issues and quirks as any Windows based machine, and while they used to be the only game in town for publishing (print and multimedia), that game changed a long time ago.

Now, I am not saying "Windows is the only way," but just saying that all sides need to see that their *preference* isn't the only way.

So, regardless of brand, or O/S, I can totally respect/drool over the hardware on this thing, but I could do a lot more with the money. For other people that have money to throw around, this may be more *affordable* to them.
post #37 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

This article is not about what used to be. Moving right along... wink.gif

Not to beat a dead horse here, but if you were to buy this Mac Pro with HDMI 1.4 out you would also be locked at 30 fps output. That is if your future TV does not accept a thunderbolt connection, which it likely will not with HDMI 2.0 on the horizon.

Again, great professional device, but many limitations. I don't really agree this is a snob's toy. It's a fantastic piece of engineering to pack that amount of hardware in that footprint. The thing is tiny, 11" tall and 6" in diameter. I would love to have one, but if I wanted strictly a multimedia device there are much better options out there.
post #38 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Rich snob's toy to tinker with...

And before you Apple fans start bashing, hear me out.

Take so much physical power and put it into a box, or cylinder, and then slap an Apple logo on it, and people that have the funds will jump on it just to say that they have one, but will only use a portion of the hardware's capabilities... For the most part anyway...


It is like the rich kid that goes out and buys a new Dodge Viper (they are coming back), and has no idea what to do with the power. He buys it because "he can." Then, he drives it out of the lot, guns it, loses control, crashes, and dies. The kid didn't know what to do with that machine and while it was cool for a while to talk about getting it, not using it the way that it was intended was just a waste. (That actually was a true story about what happened back about 7 years ago in West Des Moines, Iowa.)

Just because the rich kid could afford the power of the Viper, doesn't mean that he knew how to do anything with it more than a more economical option.

I love technology, and love the idea of all of that power, but when people have blinders on saying that Apple is the *only* option are silly. I used to work as a Mac support tech years ago for a publishing company. They had just as many issues and quirks as any Windows based machine, and while they used to be the only game in town for publishing (print and multimedia), that game changed a long time ago.

Now, I am not saying "Windows is the only way," but just saying that all sides need to see that their *preference* isn't the only way.

So, regardless of brand, or O/S, I can totally respect/drool over the hardware on this thing, but I could do a lot more with the money. For other people that have money to throw around, this may be more *affordable* to them.

That analogy is nonsense and disrespectful to the memory of the young man who lost his life. Try to show some class.
post #39 of 99
The hardware is one thing, the software and OS is another.

First of all, I think we'd all agree that the hardware is completely overkill for a typical home theater, even in the future. These are workstations intended for creating serious amounts of UHD material, not consuming it. Moderately-priced HTPCs will still be a wiser choice. By the time 4K has taken the place of 1080p for consumers (meaning there's content), believe me consumer-grade video cards will be on the market that support this resolution for your PC.

And it looks like Apple has doubled-down on looking past physical media to what it sees as the future (again)—not only did they not include the Blu-ray Superdrive that everyone was waiting for, they didn't include an optical drive of any kind. Of course, you can use an external Blu-ray drive like I do on my Mac workstation at home today, but Apple is I'm sure wanting you to be watching your content via iTunes exclusively as a digital download.

The more important topic is the software and OS support. When I first decided to get into HTPC, I assumed the Mac would be a great, simple choice, and I went out and bought the latest Mac mini to use in the living room, assuming because it output to HDMI I'd be set. After I got it home I realized OS X and various multimedia software (Plex, XMBC, etc.) did not support lossless HD audio codecs. That was a non-starter for me. I want HD audio as much as I want HD video to make the most of my significant investment in high end home theater hardware. So it went right back to the store, it was a sad day.

I got a Windows-based HTPC that handles lossless audio codecs like a charm, and haven't looked back.

-R
post #40 of 99
Mac OS will negate most benefits to such nice hardware as usual. Htpc users probably appreciate more open business models than apple is willing to entertain
post #41 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Not to beat a dead horse here, but if you were to buy this Mac Pro with HDMI 1.4 out you would also be locked at 30 fps output. That is if your future TV does not accept a thunderbolt connection, which it likely will not with HDMI 2.0 on the horizon.

Again, great professional device, but many limitations. I don't really agree this is a snob's toy. It's a fantastic piece of engineering to pack that amount of hardware in that footprint. The thing is tiny, 11" tall and 6" in diameter. I would love to have one, but if I wanted strictly a multimedia device there are much better options out there.

Fundamental to the Thunderbolt 2 protocol are HDMI adapters, as they are to Thunderbolt (DisplayPort). The only real issue is bandwidth. The HDMI port on the new Mac Pro is there for backwards compatibility—unsurprisingly, it shares the same limitations as all HDMI 1.4 ports. Thunderbolt 2 has the bandwidth to interface with a hypothetical HDMI 2.0 protocol.

I'm still expecting a "big screen" from Apple.
Edited by imagic - 6/14/13 at 3:39am
post #42 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Mac OS will negate most benefits to such nice hardware as usual. Htpc users probably appreciate more open business models than apple is willing to entertain

Which is why I keep saying: Install Windows on the new Mac Pro, as part of the "ultimate" package.
post #43 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsinclair View Post

The hardware is one thing, the software and OS is another.

First of all, I think we'd all agree that the hardware is completely overkill for a typical home theater, even in the future. These are workstations intended for creating serious amounts of UHD material, not consuming it. Moderately-priced HTPCs will still be a wiser choice. By the time 4K has taken the place of 1080p for consumers (meaning there's content), believe me consumer-grade video cards will be on the market that support this resolution for your PC.

And it looks like Apple has doubled-down on looking past physical media to what it sees as the future (again)—not only did they not include the Blu-ray Superdrive that everyone was waiting for, they didn't include an optical drive of any kind. Of course, you can use an external Blu-ray drive like I do on my Mac workstation at home today, but Apple is I'm sure wanting you to be watching your content via iTunes exclusively as a digital download.

The more important topic is the software and OS support. When I first decided to get into HTPC, I assumed the Mac would be a great, simple choice, and I went out and bought the latest Mac mini to use in the living room, assuming because it output to HDMI I'd be set. After I got it home I realized OS X and various multimedia software (Plex, XMBC, etc.) did not support lossless HD audio codecs. That was a non-starter for me. I want HD audio as much as I want HD video to make the most of my significant investment in high end home theater hardware. So it went right back to the store, it was a sad day.

I got a Windows-based HTPC that handles lossless audio codecs like a charm, and haven't looked back.

-R

Agreed. I'm talking about "ultimate," not "typical." biggrin.gif

I found that a HTPC built with "consumer" grade parts did not perform as I wished. If I'm going to go through the effort of running a desktop for entertainment, it needs to beat the competition. That means everything has to be faster and smoother than the other options. Going with all-premium components got me there, but the cost was well over a grand for a modest PC.

Of course one can build a cheap PC to do what we're discussing here, but that's not the point. I sold my PS3 because I got tired of its sluggish performance. Will I actually buy the Mac Pro when it comes out? I don't know... because I don't know the price. But unlike previous Macs, there's a chance I'd buy it. The last Mac I actually bought was the original iMac.
Edited by imagic - 6/14/13 at 4:38am
post #44 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyS View Post

I love Macs, but I think it would be waste to own a machine like this to use as an HTPC. This machine was built for photographers and videographers working some heavy duty material. Although no price was given, I'm sure this beast is going to cost a pretty penny. If I had the money, I would get it. Not sure it I would use it as an HTPC though. tongue.gif

agree completely! by the time there's any real 4k content that's cheap to get your hands on, there will be more PC options that will allow you to 'build to spec' for what you need. which likely means half the price, a more suitable case, quieter fan, and more software options.

this looks like something made for the industry to MAKE the 4k content, not for the user to display the 4k content.
post #45 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Agreed. I'm talking about "ultimate," not "typical." biggrin.gif

I found that a HTPC built with "consumer" grade parts did not perform as I wished. If I'm going to go through the effort of running a desktop for entertainment, it needs to beat the competition. That means everything has to be faster and smoother than the other options. Going with all-premium components got me there, but the cost was well over a grand for a modest PC.

Of course one can build a cheap PC to do what we're discussing here, but that's not the point. I sold my PS3 because I got tired of its sluggish performance. Will I actually buy the Mac Pro when it comes out? I don't know... because I don't know the price. But unlike previous Macs, there's a chance I'd buy it. The last Mac I actually bought was the original iMac.

does apple even make a desktop that costs under a grand? current pricing on the pro desktop starts at about 4grand and costs over $10 000 when fully loaded! I wouldn't be surprised if this one was over 15k (but likely over 10grand for sure)

that's where this one falls short for a HTPC. you're paying for a whole lot your don't need. it's not overkill, it's useless. if you want overkill, then install the video cards and stuff that work for HTPC's into a nice HTPC case and go from there. you can still spend 2-3k on hardware/software if you want to and end up with a HTPC capable of displaying 4k without breaking a sweat. what you give up is being able to render at the same time(useless for a HTPC), connect to apple monitors with proprietary connections(useless for a HTPC), etc.
post #46 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

does apple even make a desktop that costs under a grand? current pricing on the pro desktop starts at about 4grand and costs over $10 000 when fully loaded! I wouldn't be surprised if this one was over 15k (but likely over 10grand for sure)

that's where this one falls short for a HTPC. you're paying for a whole lot your don't need. it's not overkill, it's useless. if you want overkill, then install the video cards and stuff that work for HTPC's into a nice HTPC case and go from there. you can still spend 2-3k on hardware/software if you want to and end up with a HTPC capable of displaying 4k without breaking a sweat. what you give up is being able to render at the same time(useless for a HTPC), connect to apple monitors with proprietary connections(useless for a HTPC), etc.

That's far too high a price. There will be no five-figure Mac Pro.

One can configure a Mac mini as a silent Windows-based HTPC, that's under a grand.

Currently, a Mac Pro starts at $2000, not $4000. A 12-core model runs for $3500. I predict the new machine will cost about $3000—and that a less-expensive six-core, single GPU model will inevitably show up.

Apple themselves list the price range for the Mac Pro as $2499-$3799.

I've tried the same experiment time and again. If you put together a list of what it takes to build your own PC using the same parts as a Mac Pro, the Apple markup turns out not to be so big after all.
Edited by imagic - 6/14/13 at 5:03am
post #47 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

agree completely! by the time there's any real 4k content that's cheap to get your hands on, there will be more PC options that will allow you to 'build to spec' for what you need. which likely means half the price, a more suitable case, quieter fan, and more software options.

this looks like something made for the industry to MAKE the 4k content, not for the user to display the 4k content.

I agree. And yet it is pretty darned slick. Many folks have spend more on audio gear just to get nice knobs, the aesthetics of this new Mac are part of what justifies a premium price. A price that nobody even knows yet, but that I'm guessing will not be that high, relative to the components one gets.

I'm certainly not saying there won't be PC options. I'm sure there will even be a new hackintosh design with the same specs.
Edited by imagic - 6/14/13 at 6:28am
post #48 of 99
Any fan is going to make some level of sound. Question is how much will it affect watching in our bat cave?
post #49 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

That analogy is nonsense and disrespectful to the memory of the young man who lost his life. Try to show some class.

it wasn't so bad until he talked about crashing. he should have said something more along the lines of HTPC being your daily drive to work. it really doesn't take much 'power' to work. and even if you want to 'get there faster' you can spend half the money and still have overkill. a race car built for the track is a 'waste' if not pushed to its limits by a qualified driver on a track. just like this powerhouse mac would be a waste unless pushed to it's limits by a qualified technician editing 4k video. impressive, for sure. but 'ultimate htpc, not a chance.

if they wanted to spend that kind of money on overkill for a HTPC, they'd be adding TB's of SSD's, ultra high end BD drives, and talking about how clean the audio signal will be, etc.
post #50 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I agree. And yet it is pretty darned slick. Many folks have spend more on audio gear just to get nice knobs, the aesthetics of this new Mac are part of what justifies a premium price. A price that nobody even knows yet, but that I'm guessing will not be that high, relative to the components one gets.

I'm certainly not saying there won't be PC options. I'm sure there will even be a new hackintosh design with the same specs.

i'll go so far as to say mac's are decent value, IF YOU USE THEM. trying to price out a custom built pc with equal performance usually puts you within 100-200bux and you lose that 'everything is made to work together' factor.

my biggest complaint is that they are always thousands more than i 'need' or can even use. if we go back to the car analogy, it's like buying a porsche. even the 'crappy' ones are way more expensive than the average car that does just as good of job of getting me to work. the mac mini's are close, but they still seem like you're paying a lot of money for little hardware, literally. i'd rather pay less and deal with the larger size. couldn't have been more painful spending 1300bux buying my dad a new macbook air for his retirement present so he could continue to surf the web and read emails. something most inexpensive phones can do these days...but that's easier than reteaching an old dog. guess i should have bought a cheap PC and installed MacOS on it, but what's done is done.

aesthetics is personal. personally i have no place for a cylinder to look good, which means i'd have to hide it anyway. again, just from a HTPC point of view.

on the positive, this does at least hint at the start of a good framework for studios to start releasing native 4k content to theatres, which should eventually filter down to the consumer
post #51 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

That's far too high a price. There will be no five-figure Mac Pro.

One can configure a Mac mini as a silent Windows-based HTPC, that's under a grand.

Currently, a Mac Pro starts at $2000, not $4000. A 12-core model runs for $3500. I predict the new machine will cost about $3000—and that a less-expensive six-core, single GPU model will inevitably show up.

Apple themselves list the price range for the Mac Pro as $2499-$3799.

I've tried the same experiment time and again. If you put together a list of what it takes to build your own PC using the same parts as a Mac Pro, the Apple markup turns out not to be so big after all.

i literally priced it out just before typing it. a CURRENT GEN mac pro was just under 4k starting price, and easily passed 10k with factory options. obviously some of those were excessive(3 SSD's for example) but i don't see mac publishing the specs of their cheapest computer in this case. i imagine the one talked about here is most of the way decked out.

mac mini isn't a desktop... it's a net-top really. i built a silent zotac zbox with 'lesser but better for me' specs for a hair over 350 last year. it's been my HTPC in the bedroom and plays 1080p flawlessly and reliably.

again, i'd agree, if you go part for part, the mac's are a good value. but if you go by your needs, it's very unlikely mac's limited line up comes close to fitting you perfectly. and it's only a good value if you take advantage of the stuff your pay for. it doesn't take 12core processor to be a HTPC for example.

for kicks, i reconfigured to a more realistic 'ultra high end' spec, and it came out to 8479.00.
specs:
Two 3.06GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon (12 cores)
24GB (6X4GB)
512GB solid-state drive
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Two ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
Two 18x SuperDrives
Magic Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) & User's Guide


still 'overkill' in a lot of ways, but thinking from a 'i want to render 4k video' standpoint, maybe just enough. if you don't want the second optical drive(only an extra 100bux btw) you might be better off buying more ram(300-1500 upgrade depending on how much you choose)
Edited by fierce_gt - 6/14/13 at 7:27am
post #52 of 99

This is the cheapest Firepro with 6GB of ram.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814105004

 

Cheapest 6 core XEON

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117278

 

Photo says it has dual GPUs...

 

I don't know the exact components they will be using but my guess is this thing is going to be $10k just because its from Apple.

post #53 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I agree. And yet it is pretty darned slick. Many folks have spend more on audio gear just to get nice knobs, the aesthetics of this new Mac are part of what justifies a premium price. A price that nobody even knows yet, but that I'm guessing will not be that high, relative to the components one gets.

I'm certainly not saying there won't be PC options. I'm sure there will even be a new hackintosh design with the same specs.

Yeah, I really dig the design. That sort of power should be on display in a classy way.

It certainly looks like it has the power to output current generation games at 4K, even if there are cheaper options to do so.
post #54 of 99
My HTPC is an old E-Machines unit upgraded with an Opteron 180 and some extra RAM. All it needs to be perfect is a video card with a bit more in the way of stream processors. I get a bit of stuttering during NHL Gamecenter Live streams.

Certainly don't need this MAC!!!!
post #55 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

My HTPC is an old E-Machines unit upgraded with an Opteron 180 and some extra RAM. All it needs to be perfect is a video card with a bit more in the way of stream processors. I get a bit of stuttering during NHL Gamecenter Live streams.

Certainly don't need this MAC!!!!

I agree, the video card is the most important factor in any HTPC or multimedia center/gaming PC. The Nvidia GTX 660 is the first card I've had that handles all video smoothly, all the time. I could still use more horsepower for games, and of course for work—I do expect to be editing 4K video in the near future.
Edited by imagic - 6/14/13 at 10:44am
post #56 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Mac OS will negate most benefits to such nice hardware as usual. Htpc users probably appreciate more open business models than apple is willing to entertain

Which is why I keep saying: Install Windows on the new Mac Pro, as part of the "ultimate" package.

If they don't implement any hardware snags to prevent doing so meaningfully or drm tricks, then that's a good point. Will raise the price slightly, but if the hardware design is worth it it'll be worth it.
post #57 of 99
I would love to have a system as powerful as the Mac Pro or steirger dynamic but the only thing that keeps me from goign that route is party games. For me, personally, I would rather have a console that allows streaming from a server of my movies and also have bluray playback for the simple reason that I truly enjoy sitting down with my wife some nights to play LittleBigPlanet or some Wii game.

If they started making games that would allow that on PC for the HTPC crowd...I would be sold on going this route especially because as a system builder myself, I like being able to repair and upgrade as time goes on.
post #58 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

I would love to have a system as powerful as the Mac Pro or steirger dynamic but the only thing that keeps me from goign that route is party games. For me, personally, I would rather have a console that allows streaming from a server of my movies and also have bluray playback for the simple reason that I truly enjoy sitting down with my wife some nights to play LittleBigPlanet or some Wii game.

If they started making games that would allow that on PC for the HTPC crowd...I would be sold on going this route especially because as a system builder myself, I like being able to repair and upgrade as time goes on.

I'm definitely hoping for some sort of breakthrough product that can seamlessly stream a game from your PC to any TV, and send the controller inputs back. I'm getting pretty tired of dragging my HTPC around my house. tongue.gif
post #59 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I'm definitely hoping for some sort of breakthrough product that can seamlessly stream a game from your PC to any TV, and send the controller inputs back. I'm getting pretty tired of dragging my HTPC around my house. tongue.gif

Did you see the multiple screen sharing options coming in OS Mavericks? With an Apple TV, you can turn any regular TV into a second or third monitor. It's kind of like the screen sharing option they had before, but way more flexible. (Like running an entirely different separate desktop that you could dupe between monitors if you wanted to instead of the traditional mirroring or extending a desktop) I wonder what the latency will be like?
Edited by chirpie - 6/14/13 at 12:09pm
post #60 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I'm definitely hoping for some sort of breakthrough product that can seamlessly stream a game from your PC to any TV, and send the controller inputs back. I'm getting pretty tired of dragging my HTPC around my house. tongue.gif

I mainly game at my desk.

However, my current job is at a desk....

so as you could imagine, over the weekends I sometimes hate being at my desk just to get a game in. So I guess we could get the Nvidia Shield?

But I think you have to have a new generation 700 series GPU to really take advantage of it....

The next couple years will be interesting when it comes to the home entertainment devices as they get "smarter" and have more capabilities.
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