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Home Theater Number Four - Page 2

post #31 of 92
Thread Starter 
Soffits are stuffed.



The basic room is completed and when the doors are all closed it is VERY tight in the room as the door seals (purchased from SoundProofingCompany) seal very tightly around the door frame and threshold. The
Serenity Mat™ Flooring Underlay from them also "seems" to have greatly reduced footfall sounds to the room below but don't know yet on how well it will help contain bass into the room.


To be done:

Replace the incorrectly installed carpet mad.gif



Paint the outlets

Install corner traps in the front and all wall treatment

Cover soffits

Install screen and masking system

Run wiring through all smurf tubing

Install surrounds

Find the best location for the 4 subs and install them

Install the mains

Begin room calibration

Pray that the sound actually does stay, for the most part, in the room.

Watch a movie and listen to some music
post #32 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Soffits are stuffed.



The basic room is completed and when the doors are all closed it is VERY tight in the room as the door seals (purchased from SoundProofingCompany) seal very tightly around the door frame and threshold. The
Serenity Mat™ Flooring Underlay from them also "seems" to have greatly reduced footfall sounds to the room below but don't know yet on how well it will help contain bass into the room.


To be done:

Replace the incorrectly installed carpet mad.gif



Paint the outlets

Install corner traps in the front and all wall treatment

Cover soffits

Install screen and masking system

Run wiring through all smurf tubing

Install surrounds

Find the best location for the 4 subs and install them

Install the mains

Begin room calibration

Pray that the sound actually does stay, for the most part, in the room.

Watch a movie and listen to some music

So....are you thinking two days, three tops before you will be on the last step? biggrin.gif
post #33 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post

So....are you thinking two days, three tops before you will be on the last step? biggrin.gif

Two? More like 42 (hopefully). And I will not have able to watch college football on the system during that time and THAT breaks my heart. frown.gif
post #34 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Pray that the sound actually does stay, for the most part, in the room.

Toward the end of the project, please share what worked and what didn't, in terms of soundproofing. I originally planned to take the room-within-a-room approach, but may abandon it due to funds required for my finalized room design. The serenity mat and green glue are the plan if I skip the whisper clips and second wall.
post #35 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Two? More like 42 (hopefully). And I will not have able to watch college football on the system during that time and THAT breaks my heart. frown.gif

In case you missed it...

Georgia 41 : SC 30

Congrats! smile.gif

Craig
post #36 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

In case you missed it...

Georgia 41 : SC 30

Congrats! smile.gif

Craig

We watched on a small tv sitting in our new home's unfurnished family room. Beating Steve Spurrier is always a joy biggrin.gif
post #37 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Toward the end of the project, please share what worked and what didn't, in terms of soundproofing. I originally planned to take the room-within-a-room approach, but may abandon it due to funds required for my finalized room design. The serenity mat and green glue are the plan if I skip the whisper clips and second wall.

Did a first test of how sound proof the room is by seeing how well sound from the tv in the family room was kept out of theater. The acoustically weak spot is the door. We used (apparently not as good an idea as I thought) exterior metal doors and have installed door and threshold seals we purchased from the Sound Isolation Company.

The sound does not appear to,be coming through the door seals but rather the door itself! I am researching what I can apply to either the inside and/or outside of the door to reduce sound transmission!

Any recommendations?
post #38 of 92
I was also very happy about the Georgia win as I am a HUGE Dawg fan.

Couldn't agree more with Audioguy...love it when Spurrier loses.:-D
post #39 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Did a first test of how sound proof the room is by seeing how well sound from the tv in the family room was kept out of theater. The acoustically weak spot is the door. We used (apparently not as good an idea as I thought) exterior metal doors and have installed door and threshold seals we purchased from the Sound Isolation Company.

The sound does not appear to,be coming through the door seals but rather the door itself! I am researching what I can apply to either the inside and/or outside of the door to reduce sound transmission!

Any recommendations?

Check out post 29 on this thread--it speaks to your exact situation with a stairway headed up and the dissatisfaction with a single door as the weak link. Then, check out posts 22 and 25...I think a double door system might be your best bet.
post #40 of 92
Thread Starter 
The original carpet installed was the wrong one (waaaay to light in color) so just got correct carpet installed. This has held up all of the work in the room for almost 3 weeks.

I have delivered about 80% of the GIK acoustic treatment. Corner traps have been built but not delivered to the job site. Now that the carpet color is correct, next up is to build 4 "columns" to hide the surrounds. Waiting for Mr. Seaton to announce his "on-wall Sparks" or I may end up switching surround speaker manufacturer as the current Sparks would require a much too deep column. I would certainly prefer not to do that.

Once the columns are built and the theater is complete (to the extent ANY theater is ever complete) GIK will come to the job site to build custom facings on the soffit traps.

The movers delivered our furniture/household belongings this past weekend (attached photo after their first several trips up the stairs). Including the shipping weight of the Catalyst speaker stands (each filled with 100 pounds of sand), 4 SubMersives, 3 Catalysts and 4 Sparks, plus all of the components and chairs, the movers hauled about 2500 pounds of audio stuff up a flight of stairs. They were, as they say in some parts of the south, plum wore out.



I am working on un-boxing everything and hopefully next weekend will begin hanging/installing the acoustic treatment and shortly thereafter the screen and masking system.

We did another unofficial test this past weekend to see how well the sound is being contained. Our noise source was a small radio on the floor in the theater with the volume turned up VERY loud. It was anything but dead quiet in the floor below but not awful in most places. The most bizarre thing was that in the kitchen below the theater, the most noise was audible through two of the kitchen ceiling cans but not all of them. The two that were the loudest did not have bulbs in them but that may have been a coincidence!
Edited by audioguy - 9/22/13 at 10:24pm
post #41 of 92
Thread Starter 
Some of rear wall treatment is up as is front right wall:



post #42 of 92
Thread Starter 
Progress report as of 10-15-13

Here is what I know: An exterior metal door with some sort of stuff inside is a LOUSY sound proofing device. May as well not even be there for all of the sound it kept out (in). Will be ordering a SOLID wood door.

I hope to get started this week on building the 4 columns for the surrounds. Initially I will be using my existing Sparks (which will protrude from the column a good 5 inches which presents a wonderful opportunity for someone to get a serious head smack.). I am hopeful that the new, thinner profile Sparks will be available by Thanksgiving. Should that not occur, I will switch to JTR speakers for my surrounds.

I also need to have all of the soffit lights moved further into the room as the wall acoustic treatment blocks a good bit of the light.

I started testing the left front speaker for position and frequency response. Between moving the LP back and forth, and moving the speaker from/back and left and right, that is a serious number of permutations. Just kept OmniMic running and saving the FR's of the various combination and settled (temporarily I suspect) on the current location. As it stands at this moment, they are at about the same distance from the front and side wall as in my other room --- but the measured frequency response is definitely not as smooth. I have yet to install the ceiling or front wall treatment and am hopeful those two treatments will help smooth things out a bit. I have a dip/null in the FR that I had in my previous room (approximately at the same frequency) and it was due to the ceiling bounce. Suspending 4 GIK Bass Traps from the ceiling between the LP and speakers solved it in that room and hopefully will in this room as well since OmniMIc told me that moving the mic up removed the dip.

OBSERVATION: It sure was a LOT faster disassembling my previous theater than it has been putting this one together.

In my previous room, the front 7 feet of the floor was hardwood so the LCR's were on hardwood. In this room, the room is all carpet and the speakers (133 pounds) on the stands (140 pound) wobble if pushed. So that means I get to replace the standard rubber feet on the stand with spikes - once I get the speakers in their final location.

In the next few days, I will begin the arduous process of trying to locate my subs begins. Unlike my previous room, there are a number of restrictions that will make the process more difficult: Can't go under the screen as they would be in the way; There are three doors into/out of the room that will also restrict the location (near right front corner, near right rear corner and near left front corner).

My wife thinks I actually enjoy this process. My wife is wrong. What I enjoy is watching movies and listening to music in a nice room.

To do:

- Replace entrance door to solid wooden door.

- Finalize LR location

- Locate 4 subs

- Run 11 runs of XLR interconnect through blue smurf tubing

- Build a mini screen wall and hang the screen and masking system (which, by the way, weighs 160 pounds in the shipping box).

- Install acoustic material on front wall and front ceiling

- Install projector and calibrate

- Finish painting and final touch up

- Build and install bottom and front face of soffits (will be done by GIK).

- Watch a movie and/or listen to some music.

Thank HIM!!
post #43 of 92
Love that last item smile.gif I'm glad you're going for the sold core door. People with high-use rooms in close proximity to their theater rooms sometimes attach one or two layers of OSB (w/ green glue in between) on top of the solid core door. Don't forget to snag the door mechanisms from The Soundproofing Company...from what I've read, those can be game-changers.
post #44 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Don't forget to snag the door mechanisms from The Soundproofing Company...from what I've read, those can be game-changers.

Already installed one solution from them on three doors but may have to get the automatic threshold sealing "thingie" as the one we currently have installed on the threshold could easily cause someone to trip😏
post #45 of 92
Thread Starter 
Monster traps with scatter plates installed on rear side wall;



"green" absorptive material installed on screen wall

post #46 of 92
Audioguy,

Keep up the good work.

Enjoy seeing your work in progress photos.
post #47 of 92
Thread Starter 
WHY MULTIPLE SUBS IS A MUST

I am in the early process of setting up my speakers in the new room. I had the LCR close to where they will end up so today I have been working on the subs. As I did in my previous theater, I started with one sub near the back wall and began moving around (love the Teflon sliders) until it looked as good as possible on the OmniMic plots. Then I added the second near the rear and did the same thing, The combined response was probably fixable with room correction but a long way from what I wanted to end up with.

I repeated the same for the subs near the front of the room and the final positions were not the same as my previous theater (different room structure, different size, different everything, except same speakers) but the combined results (no EQ) were VERY similar to my previous results. No smoothing!!



Old Room is in black and new room is in blue !! I will take these results any time. biggrin.gif

Without multiple subs and a measuring tool like REW, XTZ or OmniMic, these kind of results would never be possible. My SubMersives are in PGM1. PGM2 would lift up everything below 40Hz and probably look better. However, my experience with Audyssey is that it will take this response and push down the lower frequencies and using PGM2 will push them back up. Dirac does not do that.
post #48 of 92
Thread Starter 
Close to finishing the 4 columns for the surrounds. I manged to screw up the opening height so there is not enough room for both the power connector or the XLR connector. I will need to either find 90 degree connectors for both OR (mad.gif) rip out the shelf's and lower them.

AppleMark
AppleMark

Here is the rear view of the center channel box with speaker installed and connected and covered to deal off the theater from the equipment room.

AppleMark
AppleMark

I'm not 100% sure but I think the inventor of smurf tubing was demonic. I have 11 active runs from this spot in the equipment room to the theater. I used a fiberglass tape that was 50 feet long for fishing the XLR cables (unterminated) through this maze. MUCH easier than using string with a vacuum to pull the string through. One of the rear sub tubing runs must have some kind of kink in it as after 6 or 7 attempts I was not able to pull the cable through. I said many bad words !!! The fiberglass went through with zero resistance but once I connected the wire -- no luck. I will have the contractor go into the ceiling to see if he can find the kink.

AppleMark

Now comes the fun part of soldering all of those connectors rolleyes.gif
Edited by audioguy - 10/28/13 at 7:47am
post #49 of 92
DId you screw in your surrounds to each column rather than the wall (and then covering them with the column)?

Pictures are too small for me to tell...

looking good!
post #50 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

DId you screw in your surrounds to each column rather than the wall (and then covering them with the column)?

Pictures are too small for me to tell...

looking good!

Working on getting photos larger as I have no clue as to why they are small.

While not visible in the photos, there is a shelf in the column on which the surround sits. I will build grill frames for the openings.

And thanks for the kind words.

I met my wife well after my previous theater was completed. She had no idea of the amount of time consuming effort went into building such a room!!
post #51 of 92
^^ Click on the photo to see a larger version. eek.gif
post #52 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

^^ Click on the photo to see a larger version. eek.gif

It did not work on the original photos I posted so re-loaded and - it works !!
post #53 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Close to finishing the 4 columns for the surrounds. I manged to screw up the opening height so there is not enough room for both the power connector or the XLR connector. I will need to either find 90 degree connectors for both OR (mad.gif) rip out the shelf's and lower them.

Found a much less disruptive solution. I currently have Mark Seaton Sparks for the surrounds and the power and XLR connectors are on the rear. They will protrude a good 5+ inches from the column. (I suspect there will be at least one good head-smack before I replace them). The columns were designed for his yet-to-be announced or released "on-wall Sparks". On those speakers, the connectors are on the top (or bottom depending on which we you set them). Sooooo, I will drill holes in the shelf to allow access to the speaker with the power cord and XLR connector. So all is well.

This weekend I plan on terminating all of the XLR cables (they are already terminated on the end that is in the theater) so that I can actually get everything connected, run Dirac for my two channel listening and see what happens. What I have learned is thet my soldering skills are still quite awful. What would take someone who had lots of experience maybe 3 minutes per cable, might take me 30 or 60 or ...... minutes. Lousy vision and less than the hands of a trained surgeon creates much stress trying to get these soldered correctly and quickly. I did the same thing in my last theater and was marginally better then. I still have one cable that refuses to be pulled through the smurf tubing. Worst case: I will go into the attic and do a direct run from the equipment room to the theater.

On the to do list (no particular order):

Finish soldering all of the connectors; Paint the columns and the trim; Replace all doors with solid wood doors; Hang the screen; Hang the masking system; Build the panels for the portion of the front wall not covered by the screen; Install the panels on the soffits; Replace the door seal on one of the three door thresholds (guaranteed to trip someone if not). Will replace with automatic door seal; Build the grill frame for the columns; Find the exact/correct position for the left and right front speaker and use spikes to hold "firmly" in place; Run Audyssey; Watch a movie; Re-run Audyssey; Watch a movie; Re-run Audyssey; Watch a movie
post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Find the exact/correct position for the left and right front speaker and use spikes to hold "firmly" in place; Run Audyssey; Watch a movie; Re-run Audyssey; Watch a movie; Re-run Audyssey; Watch a movie

Hey Chuck. Why are you rerunning Audyssey so many times? confused.gif

-- Bill --
post #55 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Hey Chuck. Why are you rerunning Audyssey so many times? confused.gif

-- Bill --

In my previous room, I ran Audyssey quite a few times (MANY) to get reasonable results. Even when the mic positions were very, very close on each run, the results did not sound the same in every case. So given what I learned In the probably 30 previous Audyssey runs, I will experiment with different measuring positions to see what gives me the best results.

As an FYI, I use Audyssey Pro so that provides even more options with the ability to try multiple target curves.
post #56 of 92
Thread Starter 
All XLR cables pulled and terminated

Columns completed (and stuffed with insulation) and painted

Trim painted (black)

Later this week, will run Dirac on my Server and see what the system room sound like.

10 pounds in a 5 pound bag:

The columns were built for the yet to be announced or released on wall Sparks (Mark Seaton) but am currently using my existing Sparks. Cosmetically, not so good but once the new ones are installed and the grill cover over the opening, should be a lot nicer.



Still need to finish the soffit covers then onto the screen, masking system, etc
post #57 of 92
Thread Starter 
Did a bit of preliminary 2 channel listening last weekend and it is starting to sound quite nice (so far, no "upper midrange glare"). Big open sound. Dead center imaging. It was good in my last room but since this room has the treated front wall, it is even better.

I assembled and mounted the screen. Note to self. DO NOT buy the least expensive frame. The top (and bottom) portion of the frame comes in two pieces and I STILL can not get the frame to be perfectly square. The center of the top of the frame is the high point and it slopes down from there on both sides. I have disassembled and re-assembled multiple times to no avail. I called Seymour and did not get any ideas other than what I had already tried. So I went ahead an mounted it as is and that turned out to be a bad idea as discovered after I mounted the top portion of the Carada masking system. So now I get to take down the masking system, and then the screen and try yet again to make the screen frame square. VERY frustrating. I wish I had either gotten the more expensive frame from SeymourAV where the top and bottom are one piece OR used another manufacturer. Not pleased with the advise I got from Seymour (was not from Chris).

I got the JVC PJ mounted today with the Panamorph lens on the sled. Needs some serious fine tuning (focus, convergence, etc) but at least it was a picture. I also discovered that if the lens of the PJ is mounted slightly above the screen frame, then the top facia piece of the masking system blocks a very small bit of light from the projector. My new Sony 600ES should be in either next week or the week after so there is no need to spend any time fine tuning the JVC.

Next steps:

Remove masking system; remove and yet again try to straighten screen frame and remount. If all else fails, order a new frame from Seymour or more likely, sell the Seymour and spend the money and purchase a higher gain AT screen/frame from Stewart).

Cover the remaining soffit traps with black GOM cloth grill frames (front of room is complete)

Once the masking system is finally in place, build the remaining front wall absorption panels so that the entire front wall (less the screen) is black.

Determine the final location of the left and right speaker, and then place them on points. Even though the speaker and stand together weight about 270 pounds, they still wobble (when pushed) sitting on the rubber feet used on the bottom of the stand.

Install the Sony and calibrate it.

Run Audyssey for my home theater listening and run Dirac Live for my 2 channel listening.

Re-install my Control4 light switches around the house.

Have Atlanta Home Theater reprogram my Control4 System

Drink some wine.

Drink more wine.
post #58 of 92
Sorry to hear about the screen..thats quite surprising. Have you given any thought cutting an ultra-wide plinth from a solid, sturdy wood,painting it black, and placing it under the Cat stands? If sized right, they would look like part of the stands, albeit with a base large enough to eliminate rocking. Also, ever considered running Dirac on your computer for multi-channel, and routing your HDMI audio through, say, a PC "capture card" with HDMI input to gain the benefits of Dirac, sans the current 2-channel limitation.
post #59 of 92
Hey Chuck. Disappointing news regarding your sagging screen. I also have a Seymour AT 120" wide (16:9) Seymour screen, however all of my frames are one piece so I don't have any of the sagging issues that you are experiencing. I'm surprised to hear that they even make two piece frames. Other than having some additional gain (we always want more) I'm very impressed with my screen. My screen is EXTREMELY transparent and it preserves the excellent sound stage that the Cat12s present.

Have you talked to Chris regarding your frame issue? It wouldn't surprise me at all if he offered you some sort of frame exchange.

Looking forward to building my HT next year once our new home is built. Will definitely have a good sized blank canvas to work with. The raw dimensions will be 18'-8" W x 30'-2" L x 9" H, and a 14'-8" W x 12'-6" L x 9' H equipment/storage room behind it.

I'm now having second thoughts about going with a 10' vs. 9' ceiling. We just received the building materials list and the floor truss system is 14" deep which will cut into the ceiling height below. They had to go with 14" due to the 30' x 22' open concept Kitchen/Great room above the HT - no support poles or walls. It would be easy to do the 10' ceilings because we are going with an ICF foundation - they would just have to add an addition row of ICF blocks. Would love to do it but we have to decide if it's going to be worth the additional expense. Will have the winter to decide because construction will not begin until mid spring. Between the ICF foundation and the above over-pour radiant floor heating the rest of the house should be pretty quite. Once the sound proofing is applied it should be VERY quiet. biggrin.gif

The only fly in the ointment is that the Seatons will be in their shipping boxes for at least 7 months (and probably more) until the HT is ready. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

Anyways best wishes on your build and ENJOY your new HT. If I'm ever down that way again I'd definitely love to hear and see your new room. Cheers!

-- Bill --
post #60 of 92
subscribed, looking fwd to your journey on HT #4 biggrin.gif
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