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post #151 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Wait for Pentium (no HDMI 1.4a 3D) or Core i3 (for HDMI 1.4a 3D + up to 20% more processing power by HyperThreading) Haswell processor, that will be available on September 1 (unless you are interested in SVP, Smooth Video Project, for which Core i5 / i7 is recommended).

Which one would be better? Haswell (i3) or RIchland A8-6500? The point here is smooth 1080p videos...
post #152 of 618
Actually 1080p24 is the easiest format to play, any GPU is good.
post #153 of 618
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

My components don't seem to be playing nice with each other and I don't have a clue what I'm doing so that doesn't help either.

Did you ever get this figure out ?
post #154 of 618
Yeah, I swapped out the memory and SSD and it's running like a champ now. I haven't had a lot of time to play with it, but the two movies I have watched looked very good.
post #155 of 618
Thread Starter 
What hardware are you running? You are talking about MADVR ? What levels ?
post #156 of 618
I5-4570 on an ASUS Z87 with 4GB memory, 120 SSD with Win7, 7790 vid card.

I've been playing with madVR currently at level 5 with MPC-HC, it's really nice. I've also been playing with JRiver too, but I've had some stuttering (? not sure what the technical term is.) I'm sure it's just an issue with a setting, but have had no time to look at it.

Off topic small world story. So I bought something off Craigslist and went over to the guys house to pick it up. Meet him at the door and he's wearing a t-shirt that says "JRiver" on it below some river graphic. I've never actually met anyone that knows what that is or what it's used for, so I ask him if it's JRiver the software. The look on his face was as dumbfounded as I felt. He replied, "Yeah, how the he|| do you know what it is?" Turns out he was one of the original programmers/BAs on the project. So we BS'ed for a while on computers and programming and stuff. Small world.
post #157 of 618
Thread Starter 
Wow. That's not normal to see someone who does know what Jriver is. It's a niche product for select people who care about quality, common on AVS but not in the real world. Cool story.
post #158 of 618
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

More results:







- Green circle: Good (GPU load below 75%)
- Yellow triangle: Good but the GPU load is a little bit high (GPU load between 75% = 6/8 and 87.5% = 7/8)
- Red cross: Not good (GPU load above 87.5%)
- Asterisk: indicates that 1440x1080i60 is excluded.

4K UHD sources are not included in HD / FHD display results because downscaling 4K UHD to HD / FHD with Catmull-Rom (+AR+LL) is too taxing.

The tables are based on the actual measurements of GPU load like this:



Shaded area indicates that hardware other than GPU cores is not good enough to ensure smooth playback (e.g. hardware decoder can't handle 4K UHD 60fps properly [e.g. NVIDIA VP5], CPU is too slow to decode 4K UHD 60fps [e.g. AMD Trinity/Richland] etc.). Download

madVR.xlsx
madVR.xlsx (another link)

Renethx,

Have you tested the 7850 or 7870 ? Any thoughts ?
post #159 of 618
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

I5-4570 on an ASUS Z87 with 4GB memory, 120 SSD with Win7, 7790 vid card.

I've been playing with madVR currently at level 5 with MPC-HC, it's really nice. I've also been playing with JRiver too, but I've had some stuttering (? not sure what the technical term is.) I'm sure it's just an issue with a setting, but have had no time to look at it.

Off topic small world story. So I bought something off Craigslist and went over to the guys house to pick it up. Meet him at the door and he's wearing a t-shirt that says "JRiver" on it below some river graphic. I've never actually met anyone that knows what that is or what it's used for, so I ask him if it's JRiver the software. The look on his face was as dumbfounded as I felt. He replied, "Yeah, how the he|| do you know what it is?" Turns out he was one of the original programmers/BAs on the project. So we BS'ed for a while on computers and programming and stuff. Small world.

You prefer level 5 over level 4 ?
post #160 of 618
When I was going to through the different settings to get from 3 to 4 to 5, I was concerned more about the performance of the computer than I was looking at the picture quality. Thinking that the highest setting I could achieve would probably look the best. So, I don't remember seeing a huge difference between 4 and 5, but I wasn't really looking either.
I have done some A/B comparisons between the mkv rips on HTPC running at level 5 to the physical disc. On my setup, there was a perceptible difference. Not in a bad way, but there was a difference. I'm not sure how to describe it. The image from the PC was every bit as crisp and smooth as the disc, but there was just a different quality on the PC image. Again, not fake or forced or unpleasant, but different. I think I'll need to watch a few more movies before I can put my finger on it.

How's your remodel going, I'm waiting for you theater build thread to start up. tongue.gif
post #161 of 618
Thread Starter 
Waiting on a town variance decision so I can go closer to property line than local code allows. frown.gif

Judging by the requirements of my wife's closet alone that project might take me 5 years to complete. Our project keeps growing and eating into my theater plans but I determined in my coarse.

One thing I won't be skimping on the room. My thoughts being I can redo or upgrade stuff past that point easily but the room is what it is so I need to get it right. room in a room design with double walls is the plan.
post #162 of 618
That's a bummer, but five years isn't too bad. You'll still be finished sooner than Logan. wink.gif
post #163 of 618
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

That's a bummer, but five years isn't too bad. You'll still be finished sooner than Logan. wink.gif

Haha. good point.

Since we are doing a full remodel (tearing off the roof, going up and putting it back on- extending the second floor 12 feet, plus adding a garage) much of that project is going to take away significant time and budget from my theater. I am entering into the theater project as a life life long hobby endeavor- And I don't actually expect to be "done" with it this decade. This is a hobby I have chosen for the long haul- so I will still be making changes, upgrades and updates 5+ years from now. My hope is that I can get a really awesome room built without much compromise- If I can get the shell before the budget or wife get in my way- I know my passion will see it through in the end.

I will like to do things myself one step at a time, for example the extra kids bathroom is going to be rough plumbed to code but I am not going to tile it, add vanity, toilet or shower due to cost. I'll have a bathroom that if you open the door it's a raw room. When the kids are old enough (we are trying for our first now) to need a bathroom I can easily put it in- but that saves me some good cash now I can use somewhere else. I don't mind using a tile saw, or doing tile work. It goes easy for me so the bathrooms I will do myself. Same things on the hard wood floor- it might go a little slower doing it myself- but I can put down hard wood floor a lot cheaper than paying someone. I am considering doing the interior framing myself actually and only having the contractor do the "shell" so if I want to move a wall 6" or a foot to change a dimension of a room or area when I am in the room and can see it then I can do that- sometimes it's hard to imagine such things in plans. I am a do-er and not a planner wink.gif

The things I will pay for are clearly the concrete pour, the framing and build of the "shell", the roof, and the sheet rock. (I might do the theater only myself, or I might only do the room inside the room myself) The stuff I will clearly do myself is the trim, the flooring, the bathrooms, and closets. They are just areas where I don't trust anyone to get them right, and I certainly don't want to pay what it costs for that. Hoping to save a lot of cash by doing much things myself, but that just slows down the progess on the theater and competes for my time and attention. It's going to be a challenge especially with a baby, and perhaps even another before the project is complete. At the end of the day my dream is just to have an awesome space and room to chase my hobby for many years. If I can get 20 feet wide or more by 30 feet long or more- that's my goal. Right now I am speced at 22.5 feet x 34 but we will see what the town thinks of that. If I can't get 20 feet wide I am going to look for another home. I am not going to compromise, and finding a home in my area with room I want for a theater is unlikely if not impossible for my budget. I am likely going to have to go the DIYer route to get what I want. I want a $500k home theater for 1/10th of the price. I can do about $10k now for the "room", and probably a few thousand a year there after on this and that... as I keep making progress. I won't be spending any money on fancy gear until I have something to put it in. Probably a 11.2 SEOS build with 12" and the DNA360 tweets, I'd also like 4 DIY subs. Again going the DIY route on the speakers should yield me some serious value. If I want to take the time to build my own crossovers, boxes etc... I should get a speaker system for $2500 that can best a $25k retail option. On the subs $2000 in DIY subs will easily smoke a $10k retail sub. I'l build my own wet bar, do my own wiring. Build my own HTPC and server wink.gif Hopefully find a deal on the theater chairs. Where there is a will there is a way. I think I have done my homework at least enough to understand the construction techniques, materials, and methods. The rest I will learn as I go. I am not afraid to try something, or even fail and re-do it. That's why I always admired Sandman's thread- it seemed like he would do it then realize the smallest little thing just was not right- and he was not afraid to tear it all out and do it all again.

BTW- Thanks for the router advice biggrin.gif My router and table are going strong. Not "cowger" quality mind you- but not bad for $200. I ended up spraying my cabinet doors and realized I wanted to router the edges after I spend 4 coats painting them. Wife pleaded with me to just install them and they look fine. So- of coarse I said nope. Routered the paint off the edges and ended up another weekend spraying paint again. eek.gif Came out ok for a rookie and his first time considering I used cheap pine and MDF from home depot on a $99 Ryobi router table and $99 Hitachi router. Happy I learned a new skill- I will put the raised panel look and technique to work in my theater. I do like me some raise panels. It's way classier than solid trim or molding. I stopped posting in Cowgers thread because I felt bad taking over his thread and de-railing it. I ended up having to take apart my table saw, and all sorts of stuff. I did have a quick post about it in my server thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438027/mfusicks-how-to-build-an-affordable-30tb-flexraid-media-server-information-requested/1300_100



You can see in the below pic the edges are not routered :

Edited by Mfusick - 10/4/13 at 7:16am
post #164 of 618
Thread Starter 
LAV audio and MadVR is pretty nice in MB3T biggrin.gif I got a chance to preview beta and it's pretty cool. Definitely some hard work has gone into it, and certainly still more to do. It's not ready for prime time, but from the enthusiast perspective it appears to give us what we want (madvr on integrated player) pretty well. MB3 has always been strong with eye candy too.
post #165 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

LAV audio and MadVR is pretty nice in MB3T biggrin.gif I got a chance to preview beta and it's pretty cool. Definitely some hard work has gone into it, and certainly still more to do. It's not ready for prime time, but from the enthusiast perspective it appears to give us what we want (madvr on integrated player) pretty well. MB3 has always been strong with eye candy too.

Do you foresee yourself using MB3T as an external player for MB Classic instead of MPC-HC? Any reason too other than easier setup?
post #166 of 618
Thread Starter 
I will probably ditch the WMC on the main HTPC as I removed the tv tuner and put it in another machine.

We never watch live tv, and wifey only watches recorded stuff. She likes the menus and easy navigation if mediabrowser ...

I will likely ditch WMC and only use theater. It's pretty slick. It's really all you need. I need to play with it some more , but so far so good. There's a few features and options not active yet in it so it's not complete, but the progress is evident.

I'm not sure many people understand how big of a project something like this is. It's not just a few lines of code and it's done. I applaud the MB3 team for the hard work and also recognizing that the easier way and initial plan not to allow MADVR functionality might not be best for the enthusiast crowd. Now that MADVR integrates so well without external players needed there's really going to be no excuse not to use it. Configuring external player like MPC HC has its own set of issues, and MBT3 promises some good stuff on that aspect.
post #167 of 618
Ah, no live TV support is a deal breaker for me. It feels like I'll be chained to WMC forever. Jriver is getting closer by adding HDHR Prime support but the guide is not up to snuff yet.
post #168 of 618
Thread Starter 
Well you will have to wait for the official release but WMC integration is expected biggrin.gif. You can go into WMC from inside MB3T and vice versa I would expect. But again the MB3 classic is the one you want if you want to be inside WMC. Pick your poision biggrin.gif

There's both options being developed so no one should get left out in the cold.
post #169 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Well you will have to wait for the official release but WMC integration is expected biggrin.gif. You can go into WMC from inside MB3T and vice versa I would expect. But again the MB3 classic is the one you want if you want to be inside WMC. Pick your poision biggrin.gif

There's both options being developed so no one should get left out in the cold.

This is great news for me using and HDHR Prime with WMC for CableCARD TV viewing.
post #170 of 618
Thread Starter 
Are you using the 2.6 or the classic now ?
post #171 of 618
So, I've been running WMC (pretty much joined at the hip) for years now with MyMovies & TMT5. Wife loves it and knows it.
I REALLY want to get into MadVR, but don't want to lose WMC. I have heard MyMovies can point to MPC-HC as an external player - is that true? Is that an option for me if I want to keep using WMC and use MadVR?

I upgraded to W8.1 / Haswell last week and got things working on it (TMT6 is broke in 8.1,had to stay on 5.)
I've got an HD6450, but I know I'll need at least an HD7750 or better if I want use MadVR at the higher levels.

By the way, on those charts, what's the difference between Film and Video? I'm streaming full-size BDs from my NAS over 1GBit - is that considered 'Film' according to those charts?

In summary:
1. Is it possible to use MyMovies with WMC to get MadVR working via MPC-HC? Is anybody doing this? How is it?
2. How is MPC-HC compared to TMT5 as an external player? Is MPC-HC a solid player? Been pretty happy with TMT5.
3. On the MadVR video card charts, what is 'Film'? What is 'Video'?
4. Are the HD7750s still suffering from flickering due to the power-saving memory upclocking/downclocking or did AMD finally fix that with firmware?

Thanks all.
post #172 of 618
Thread Starter 
Anyone have any new news or benchmark info on the new AMD video card series ?
post #173 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Anyone have any new news or benchmark info on the new AMD video card series ?

I believe they are all rebrands except for 290 and 290x. 290x supposedly trades blows with GTX Titan but reliable benchmarks aren't out yet.

New Kaveri APU's similar to what's in the new consoles are coming soon too. Those will be very exciting for HTPC.
post #174 of 618
Thread Starter 
AMD is becoming the better choice for MADVR on a budget
post #175 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

I believe they are all rebrands except for 290 and 290x. 290x supposedly trades blows with GTX Titan but reliable benchmarks aren't out yet.

New Kaveri APU's similar to what's in the new consoles are coming soon too. Those will be very exciting for HTPC.

post #176 of 618
Quote:
As part of today’s public session for AMD’s 2014 GPU product showcase, AMD has announced a new audio technology for some of their upcoming GPUs. Dubbed TrueAudio, Although technical details are light at this time – more is certainly to come under NDA – what AMD is describing would be consistent with them having integrated some form of audio DSP into their relevant GPUs.
Quote:
The advantages of utilizing the DSP are fairly straightforward. Simple audio calculations are cheap, and even simple 3D effects such as panning and precomputed reverb can be done similarly cheaply, but real-time reflections, reverb, and 3D transformations are expensive. Running the calculations to provide 3D audio over headphones and 2.1 speakers, or phantom speakers and above/below audio positioning in 5.1 setups is all very expensive. And for these reasons these effects aren’t used in current generation games. These are the kinds of effects AMD wants to bring (back) to PC gaming.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7370/amd-announces-trueaudio-technology-for-upcoming-gpus
post #177 of 618

This thread has so much good info, possibly too much for me to comprehend!

Big thanks to renethx and Mfusick, even though he is lying :rolleyes:

 

How does the player quality of latest XBMC builds compare? I don't like using external players because its a hassle to setup and you lose the overlays etc. But if the PQ differences are as substantial as in this thread then I have to reconsider.

post #178 of 618
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post

This thread has so much good info, possibly too much for me to comprehend!
Big thanks to renethx and Mfusick, even though he is lying rolleyes.gif

How does the player quality of latest XBMC builds compare? I don't like using external players because its a hassle to setup and you lose the overlays etc. But if the PQ differences are as substantial as in this thread then I have to reconsider.

There is screen shots all over the place. Generally speaking something using Madvr Jinc3+AR is always going to be better than the XBMC integrated player. The XBMC player is not particularly special or good at anything. It's just a player, (like many others)

XBMC was never designed to be a high end video playback solution, it's more just a front end browser interface. Many who like XBMC configure it to use an external player like MPC-HC with MadVR. Here's the sticky:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1357375/advanced-mpc-hc-setup-guide


That's your best bet for staying with XBMC but getting better picture quality with MadVR

I am Alpha testing (pre beta) MediaBrowser3 Theater right now. It can use Madvr with the integrated player (works very well) and it also supports some really cool stuff like live video backdrops. MB3 Platform also has support for iOS, Android, Roku, and linux in addition to just MS Windows so it can provide a consistent solution across multiple platforms and devices. It also allows transcoding, so you can change the resolution for specific device compatibility or performance, and you can also stream up and watch your media over the internet when you are away. Lots of good stuff. I suspect MB3T will be the go to solution for simple integrated but still rather high end video playback over XBMC in years to come. The integration of MadVR means you can use the integrated player and controls- and retain the HD overlays. The HD overlays are pretty slick. Having it overlay the playing video or the live video backdrop really enhances the cool factor. Otherwise- MPC-HC still is a good choice.

It's not released yet (MB3T) but it's looking very promising. XBMC is quite dated by today's standards. It's traditional strengths still remain but it lacks some modern functionality gained with dual server and client approach. PLEX is built on XBMC code and works much the same way as XBMC, so that's a good and newer option other than XBMC that is pretty simple to set up and it can transcode or serve your media up and over online.

Wait to you see a sneak peak of the MB3T product. It's pretty awesome. When I get the ok to share it, I will post a demo video of it in action.

Here is some relevant posts you might be interested in:
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Jinc also has less aliasing artifacts:



(Monsters Inc. Blu-Ray Upscale to UHD)
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

x4 enlargement (this forum resizes every picture posted). This typically shows how Jinc is good.




AMD is the worst, NVIDIA is not so good (ES = Edge sharpening), Intel is the best among the three. Unfortunately, with Intel, DXVA2 decode is sometimes broken and "DXVA Best" deinterlacing never works in XBMC.

I believe that chart got changed though, ^ That chart is wrong for Nvidia - they're using bilinear scaling and edge sharpening, not lanczos (if it matters)
post #179 of 618
Hey Mfusick, you posted this in another thread, but I didnt want to hijack the other thread... since this is about ultimate in picture and SOUND quality, I thought I could post it here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Jriver is the simplest solution with high quality audio results

Can you expound as to why? I am having a lot of issues with XBMC. I get source clipping pretty bad on some tracks, and I guess these issues are built into the coding of the new Audio Engine, as all someone could tell me was to lower the volume. This worked, but there are obviously other issues. I swear to you the soundstage is not nearly as good via XBMC as it is via Foobar, and XBMC has big issues fading in and out of tracks, it skips/pauses for less than a second while there is 1-2 seconds left in the song before moving onto the next. It also sounds a little thin and bright via the XBMC, I dont think I am actually getting a clean pass through to AVR for Digital to Analog processing.

Regardless, now that I finally have a fairly nice 2.0 setup (*very* nice to the rest of the world, less than average in AVS terms biggrin.gif), and 95% of my music in flac or v0, I need a worthwhile front end.


So, back to the point, is Jriver the hands down choice? Their website isnt too impressive, my XBMC with Aeon Nox looks 10x better... I am about to venture over to the Jriver thread, but I'd like to know why its better and if I have any other options.


Thanks!
post #180 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridindirty View Post

Hey Mfusick, you posted this in another thread, but I didnt want to hijack the other thread... since this is about ultimate in picture and SOUND quality, I thought I could post it here.
Can you expound as to why? I am having a lot of issues with XBMC. I get source clipping pretty bad on some tracks, and I guess these issues are built into the coding of the new Audio Engine, as all someone could tell me was to lower the volume. This worked, but there are obviously other issues. I swear to you the soundstage is not nearly as good via XBMC as it is via Foobar, and XBMC has big issues fading in and out of tracks, it skips/pauses for less than a second while there is 1-2 seconds left in the song before moving onto the next. It also sounds a little thin and bright via the XBMC, I dont think I am actually getting a clean pass through to AVR for Digital to Analog processing.

Regardless, now that I finally have a fairly nice 2.0 setup (*very* nice to the rest of the world, less than average in AVS terms biggrin.gif), and 95% of my music in flac or v0, I need a worthwhile front end.


So, back to the point, is Jriver the hands down choice? Their website isnt too impressive, my XBMC with Aeon Nox looks 10x better... I am about to venture over to the Jriver thread, but I'd like to know why its better and if I have any other options.


Thanks!

With Jriver you get bit perfect, WASAPI exclusive sound output. It bypasses the crappy Windows mixer completely. It doesn't get better than that for PC audio. Also, their theater view audio player is fantastic IMO.

There are tons of other features as well, like parametric EQ, and from-memory playback. Jriver can basically be used as a pre-pro if one desired.

I use WMC and Mediabrowser/MPC-HC because I like their interface better for live Tv and movies, but they don't hold a candle to Jriver when I want to kick back and listen to some 2ch music.

Go try it out, 30 day free trial.
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