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**** So you've built your HTPC-NOW WHAT IS NEXT ?? How to get the "ULTIMATE" picture and sound... - Page 2

post #31 of 618
why cb and not DXVA2 (native)?
post #32 of 618
DXVA2 (native) works only when LAV Video Decoder is directly connected to the video renderer. If you insert a filter between them (e.g. a subtitle filter, ffdshow raw video filter for SVP), it goes back to "None" (i.e. avcodec, a software decoder). DXVA2 (copy-back) uses the hardware decoder via DXVA2, but it behaves as if it is a software decoder by "copying back" frame buffer to the system memory.
post #33 of 618
Intriguing.
post #34 of 618
Thread Starter 
So using SVP removes ability to go DXVA2 ?
post #35 of 618
No.
post #36 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Personally I have never seen a problem with DXVA2 (copy-back) in any platform.

Its rather slow on old AMD GPUs - anything before the 7000 series.
It may be fine for normal playback, but doesn't leave a lot of performance headroom. Not sure how 60p content fares either. I'm not a fan of AMD on account of driver quality, so i don't have much first hand experience with all the variety of formats.
post #37 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polemides View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


Interesting idea ^ Do you do this now ?

There seem to be a growing number of ReClock-esque utilities for adjusting clock speed. I recently implemented J. River's version -- VideoClock -- at 24 fps and it works flawlessly. 24 fps all the time with about a 0.000013% average deviation, according to MadVR anyway. YMMV, but if you're interested in locking on a steady clock speed it might be worth your looking into.

Apparently this is in MPC-BE now too but I have not tried it yet. Has anyone?
post #38 of 618
Has madVR Level 4 or 5 been tested on Haswell yet?
post #39 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Has madVR Level 4 or 5 been tested on Haswell yet?

Level 5 doesn't work, even at 24p its too slow and drops frames.
Level 4 does work at least for 720p24 -> 1080p to some degree. 60 fps will not work out of the box, and using 720p24 with smooth motion will also not work, although possibly some OC of the GPU could get Level 4 to work without these limitations, i didn't try overclocking the GPU as i don't have that big interest in it :P
post #40 of 618
Thread Starter 
If I had to seriously over clock just to get it to work that's a good sign you should probably just buy a GPU.
post #41 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Has madVR Level 4 or 5 been tested on Haswell yet?

Level 5 doesn't work, even at 24p its too slow and drops frames.
Level 4 does work at least for 720p24 -> 1080p to some degree. 60 fps will not work out of the box, and using 720p24 with smooth motion will also not work, although possibly some OC of the GPU could get Level 4 to work without these limitations, i didn't try overclocking the GPU as i don't have that big interest in it :P

Thanks Nevcairiel
post #42 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Has madVR Level 4 or 5 been tested on Haswell yet?

My experience is different from Nevcairiel's. smile.gif Upscaling SD/HD/FHD movies to FHD with Level 5 is no problem (I disabled all pp in Intel driver except for film mode detection). But for videos, no go.

BTW rendering time is:

- SD movie --> FHD: 5 ms
- HD movie --> FHD: 9 ms
- FHD movie --> FHD: 23 ms

The first two are unnaturally short. If the rendering time for 720p24 --> 1080p were that short, then rendering 720p60 --> 1080p should have been no problem. Unfortunately there is heavy stuttering in 720p60 --> 1080p, that means the rendering time is actually > 16ms. I noticed that such a short rendering time started with the Intel driver with the new UI.
Edited by renethx - 6/17/13 at 7:28am
post #43 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Has madVR Level 4 or 5 been tested on Haswell yet?

My experience is different from Nevcairiel's. smile.gif Upscaling SD/HD/FHD movies to FHD with Level 5 is no problem (I disabled all pp in Intel driver except for film mode detection). But for videos, no go.

BTW rendering time is:

- SD movie --> FHD: 5 ms
- HD movie --> FHD: 9 ms
- FHD movie --> FHD: 23 ms

The first two are unnaturally short. If the rendering time for 720p24 --> 1080p were that short, then rendering 720p60 --> 1080p should have been no problem. Unfortunately there is heavy stuttering in 720p60 --> 1080p, that means the rendering time is actually > 16ms. I noticed that such a short rendering time started with the Intel driver with the new UI.

Thanks renethx.

(Now I don't know what to think.. LOL)
post #44 of 618
All i know is that playing a typical 720p24 movie on 1080p at 60Hz doesn't work fluid with Jinc3+AR for both Luma/Chroma on my HD4600 at stock clocks, using 2133-CL9 RAM and software decoding, with all trade quality for performance off, naturally.
But i didn't try tweaking any flush settings or any other stuff.
post #45 of 618
renethx:

Thanks for the detailed posting!

Question now smile.gif

Could you list every correct setting in ati's CCC and madvr and lav in every menu?

I have done all the 'advanced mpc-hc' thread steps but it does not show what CCC and mad-vr need for ALL the settings.


I am running level 4 fine but am kind of vague as to some of the other menu settings in madvr and CCC


Thanks again for all the awesome stuff you show us

my tv is sony sxrd HDMI 1080p 60hz, ati 7770 video card

Jay
post #46 of 618
In CCC, disable all post-processors (in Video section, Color > Advanced and Quality except for dinterlacing and pulldown detection).

In madVR, run "restore default settings.bat" to reset the settings. Then go to "scaling algorithms" and select what you want. Basically that's it. You can do lots more if you know what you are doing, of course.

HD 7770 is good enough for Level 5.
Edited by renethx - 6/17/13 at 10:37am
post #47 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

In CCC, disable all post-processors (in Video section, Color > Advanced and Quality except for dinterlacing and pulldown detection).

In madVR, run "restore default settings.bat" to reset the settings. Then go to "scaling algorithms" and select what you want. Basically that's it. You can do lots more if you know what you are doing, of course.

HD 7770 is good enough for Level 5.

gotcha, I guess my main question still is this:

I had been checking 'decode MPEG2 and .h264'
and 'automatically deinterlace when needed'
in MAD-VR, should I uncheck these?

thanks again
post #48 of 618
Just run "restore default settings.bat". smile.gif
post #49 of 618
lol, yes sir smile.gif
post #50 of 618
renethx, do you have any examples of what MPC-HC built in upscaling looks like?

Bicubic A=-.60
Bicubic A=-.75
Bicubic A=-1

If not, what does it most compare to, Lanczos3?
post #51 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL-F1 View Post

gotcha, I guess my main question still is this:

I had been checking 'decode MPEG2 and .h264'
and 'automatically deinterlace when needed'
in MAD-VR, should I uncheck these?

thanks again

decoding mpeg2 and h264 is irrelevant in madvr if you've followed my guide, since they are already decoded by lav video by the time it reaches madvr.
automatic deinterlacing should be checked, but it is checked by default as well.
post #52 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

renethx, do you have any examples of what MPC-HC built in upscaling looks like?

Bicubic A=-.60
Bicubic A=-.75
Bicubic A=-1

If not, what does it most compare to, Lanczos3?

Are you talking about EVR-CP / Sync Renderer? They support only bilinear and bicubic (no anti-ringing of course) in the official release of MPC-HC.

Bicubic A=-.60
Bicubic A=-.75
Bicubic A=-1

are exactly identical with madVR's BiCubic sharpness 60 / 75 / 100. Overall bicubic is similar to Lanczos, the latter is slightly sharper.

Lanczos (or Lanczos+AR if you use Intel DXVA2 upscaling) is the best option unless you move to madVR.
Edited by renethx - 6/17/13 at 8:29pm
post #53 of 618
Great posts, cannot live without Jinc3+AR upscaling. smile.gif

After you have chosen your scaling preference, you can start looking into getting accurate color reproduction from your display by implementing a 3DLUT in MadVR. wink.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms
post #54 of 618
Very informative thread.

My use case >90% of the time is 720p -> FHD, 1080i -> FHD, or FHD -> FHD. I'm not scaling to 4k (though never say never) and don't play a lot of 480p/480i source material.

To what extent are renderers and scaling methods significant for these situations? Jinc+AR looks superior in the 1.5x scaling examples (thinking of my 720p -> FHD scenario), but will that be apparent with actual content over bilinear scaling?

Also, given that my primary displays are plasmas, will the temporal and spatial dithering mask the improvements I make further up the chain?
post #55 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Great posts, cannot live without Jinc3+AR upscaling. smile.gif

After you have chosen your scaling preference, you can start looking into getting accurate color reproduction from your display by implementing a 3DLUT in MadVR. wink.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms

Yes, that's really a great thread. Thanks! smile.gif
post #56 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

Very informative thread.

My use case >90% of the time is 720p -> FHD, 1080i -> FHD, or FHD -> FHD. I'm not scaling to 4k (though never say never) and don't play a lot of 480p/480i source material.

To what extent are renderers and scaling methods significant for these situations? Jinc+AR looks superior in the 1.5x scaling examples (thinking of my 720p -> FHD scenario), but will that be apparent with actual content over bilinear scaling?

Also, given that my primary displays are plasmas, will the temporal and spatial dithering mask the improvements I make further up the chain?

Actually I rarely play 720p contents (I play mostly contents ripped directly from DVD and BD), so I don't have a good idea. StinDaWg, who plays 720p, says bilinear (AMD DXVA2 [that's slightly different from bilinear, though]) is pretty bad.
post #57 of 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

Very informative thread.

My use case >90% of the time is 720p -> FHD, 1080i -> FHD, or FHD -> FHD. I'm not scaling to 4k (though never say never) and don't play a lot of 480p/480i source material.

To what extent are renderers and scaling methods significant for these situations? Jinc+AR looks superior in the 1.5x scaling examples (thinking of my 720p -> FHD scenario), but will that be apparent with actual content over bilinear scaling?

Also, given that my primary displays are plasmas, will the temporal and spatial dithering mask the improvements I make further up the chain?
Yes, bilinear looks too blurry and soft on 720p->1080p scaling. It's not minor, it's extremely noticeable. I can't tell any difference between bicubic, Lanczos3 or Spline36 in 720p to 1080p upscaling. I use Lanczos3 because supposedly it is the "sharpest" but like I said I really see no difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Lanczos (or Lanczos+AR if you use Intel DXVA2 upscaling) is the best option unless you move to madVR.
What are your thoughts on Spline36? Many people around the net use and recommend it, saying that it gives all the benefits of Lanczos without the ringing.
post #58 of 618
More screenshots: 1280x720p --> 1920x1080 (1.5x)

Bicubic 75, Spline 3, Lanczos 3: Bicubic has the least ringing. Lanczos has the most ringing and is the sharpest.


Edited by renethx - 6/18/13 at 3:49am
post #59 of 618
Thread Starter 
So on topic of 720p->1080p what is the best solution to maximize PQ?
post #60 of 618
Why not go with Jinc3+AR? smile.gif

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