or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › Theory About Intel's HDMI Quantization Range Setting (Full 0-255)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Theory About Intel's HDMI Quantization Range Setting (Full 0-255) - Page 2

post #31 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by silooo View Post

Robertos,

;Extension bloc #1, e.g., CEA-EXT, DID-EXT, etc.
HKR,EDID_OVERRIDE,"1",0x01,0x02,0x03,0x39,0x72,0x50,0x9F,0x90,0x14,0x05,0x20,0x13,0x04,0x12,0x03,0x11,0x02,0x16,0x07,0x15,0x06,0x01,0x23,0x09,0x07,0x01,0x78,0x03,0x0C,0x00,0x10,0x00,0xB8,0x26,0x2F,0xC0,0x0A,0x81,0x49,0xFF,0xFC,0x06,0x16,0x08,0x00,0x18,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xE3,0x05,0x1F,0x01,0xE2,0x00,0xFF,0x01,0x1D,0x80,0xD0,0x72,0x1C,0x16,0x20,0x10,0x2C,0x25,0x80,0xBA,0x88,0x21,0x00,0x00,0x9E,0x01,0x1D,0x80,0x18,0x71,0x1C,0x16,0x20,0x58,0x2C,0x25,0x00,0xBA,0x88,0x21,0x00,0x00,0x9E,0x01,0x1D,0x00,0xBC,0x52,0xD0,0x1E,0x20,0xB8,0x28,0x55,0x40,0xBA,0x88,0x21,0x00,0x00,0x1E,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x2D

thanks!
I have followed your guide, after reboot quantization range is set to limited (as before) and desktop looks ok, but now when I change quantization range to full my desktop become washed out (blacks are grey). In madvr output is set to PC-levels, but image is washed out - when I change madvr output to tv levels it is worse than before frown.gif So only when quantization range is set to Limited colors looks ok, but there is banding in movies (madrv is set to pclevels)
post #32 of 184
Is your display set to 16-235 or 0-255? Hopefully the latter but if 16-235 - that could explain what you are seeing; in which case you need to set it to 0-255.
post #33 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post

Is your display set to 16-235 or 0-255? Hopefully the latter but if 16-235 - that could explain what you are seeing; in which case you need to set it to 0-255.

I don't know how my gt30 is set (there is no option i menu to set ranges), I think it is 16-235, so I want to make this as Madshi says as option no 3 (Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 0-255. madVR is set to 16-235. This is the recommended setup for best image quality if your display can't do 0-255. This setup results in banding-free madVR image quality.):

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms#post_23274961

But now if I change madvr output to 16-235 is even worse than 0-255 (greys are lighter)
post #34 of 184
Robertos, from the http://www.avsforum.com/t/1340522/the-official-panasonic-gt30-settings-thread/1260
Quote:
seibelcj

To report back and finish my discussion of GT30 settings with AT&T Uverse (and hopefully be of help to anyone who has the same problems I had) I found a simple but totally effective solution.

As I detailed, the black crush problem with Uverse is that there are two different "standards" for sending digital video over HDMI, and while most AV equipment uses a "limited" range where black is 16 and white is 235, computers and U-verse assumes "full" range, where black is 0 and white is 255. This creates the “black crush” issue

What I did not realize till recently is that the GT30 has a setting under HDMI settings called “non standard” that matches the range of the U-verse signal. By switching to this setting along with a combination of DaveO’s and JForge’s settings in custom, I now get the same great picture I used to get with cable:.

Ok done with the subject but hopefully a help to anyone who switches over to Uverse.

And also check your firmware http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/tv/download/pro/down_pro.html
Edited by silooo - 9/11/13 at 7:15am
post #35 of 184
I have european model GT30E and there is no option to change hdmi input range. I have read manual and there is only short note: "the black level for hdmi input signal will be adjusted automatically".
When I open link http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php I can see all squares, but iGPU control panel quantization range is set to limited. After changing to full desktop look washed out (blacks are greys). I have trired to reset my laptop, but this makes quantization range returns to limited.
Madshi wrote, that if displays was set to 0-255 and tv to 16-235 then setting tv range output in madvr should have given perfect picture but not here.

Ma drivers are: 8.15.10.2462 . Maybe there is better driver version allowing quantization range to stay full after reboot?
post #36 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertos View Post

thanks!
I have followed your guide, after reboot quantization range is set to limited (as before) and desktop looks ok, but now when I change quantization range to full my desktop become washed out (blacks are grey). In madvr output is set to PC-levels, but image is washed out - when I change madvr output to tv levels it is worse than before frown.gif So only when quantization range is set to Limited colors looks ok, but there is banding in movies (madrv is set to pclevels)

That sounds weird. It sounds as if setting quantization range to full range actually goes in the wrong direction. Maybe the driver is broken and the settings are swapped? Maybe setting the Intel driver to limited range produces full range, and setting the driver to full range produces limited range? If that's not it, then maybe it's even worse than setting it to full range produces double expanded levels (32 - 219 or something like that)?
post #37 of 184
Intel always outputs 16-235 over HDMI. Period. Stop. Settings matter not, Intel chooses to follow strictly the HDMI whitepaper specs for HDMI (16-235).

You can use DVI or Displayport output to get full range , or you can add a GPU card. Otherwise just go with 16-235 and set up everything accordingly.
post #38 of 184
The problem with 16-235 is that *probably* (although I don't know for sure) the GPU stretches the rendered video from 0-255 to 16-235 without using dithering, which should introduce banding artifacts. So "just go with" probably comes with a quality penalty.
post #39 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

The problem with 16-235 is that *probably* (although I don't know for sure) the GPU stretches the rendered video from 0-255 to 16-235 without using dithering, which should introduce banding artifacts. So "just go with" probably comes with a quality penalty.

Someone who knows about or cares about such things would "probably" just use a GPU card because they want to use your MADVR wink.gif at optimal settings anyways which makes most integrated Intel issues irrelevant. I found no good solutions with my 4770k for the issue and added a Radeon GPU card. I also use the display port output to HDMI cable (mono price for $9) and also DVI which seems to not have any issues at all. If you have a choice DVI or display port seem better options for video, but if your in HTPC arena and want to stream HD audio via HDMI to your AVR your going to probably run into issues with Intel and 16-235 conversion.

I've not tested it fully- but there is room for problems there. A GPU card is the easiest way to bypass the Intel GPU issues, and AMD RADEON support limited or full range without any need for "hacking" which makes them a good choice. They also seem to give good results in MadVR tongue.gif
post #40 of 184
Hi,

I confirm i have intel with full range working, i have an HD300+AMD 6600 switchable but the output is controlled by the HD3000.
I have succes reprogramming the epprom of my TV and doing the EDID override.
https://communities.intel.com/message/206084#206084

As you can see in that thread another person had luck overriding the EDID and setting to limited.
post #41 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by silooo View Post

Hi,

I confirm i have intel with full range working, i have an HD300+AMD 6600 switchable but the output is controlled by the HD3000.
I have succes reprogramming the epprom of my TV and doing the EDID override.
https://communities.intel.com/message/206084#206084

As you can see in that thread another person had luck overriding the EDID and setting to limited.

But are you using the Motherboard HDMI without a GPU card and are you getting full range 0-255 without stretching 16-235 for output ?

How have you tested to confirm ?
post #42 of 184
using this test http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php and this http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

is there some other way of testing full range?
post #43 of 184




embeded for others smile.gif
post #44 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by silooo View Post

using this test http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php and this http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

is there some other way of testing full range?
post #45 of 184




post #46 of 184
>Intel always outputs 16-235 over HDMI. Period. Stop. Settings matter not, Intel chooses to follow strictly the HDMI whitepaper specs for HDMI (16-235).

>You can use DVI or Displayport output to get full range , or you can add a GPU card. Otherwise just go with 16-235 and set up everything accordingly.
 
No, it's not the true. Intel remove this functionality from UI, but it still possible.
 

Anyone, who want FullRange RGB HDMI output on Intel Graphic may try this:

1. Find your current Intel Graphic Adapter software registry instance under:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\xxxx

(0000 on my PC).

2.Create DWORD value:
EnableRGBFullRange

and set it to 1

3. Reboot.

4. Enjoy.

 

I personally (discover and) test it on HD4000 mobile version with drivers from May 2013 on Windows 7 x64 + HDMI1/DVI input with "PC mode" on Samsung LE40B530 TV as HDMI Sink.

 

Another thing which I test - Intel drivers (current) don't accept standard MS EDID override feature, but allow the same functionality with ReadEDIDFromRegistry and FakeEDID_%d_%d_%x_%x registry keys pair.

I personally use this to switch HDMI device to DVI mode (Full RGB Range by default) by disabling CEA extension in EDID to verify equality of levels of DVI and HDMI+EnableRGBFullRange.

 

Can anybody test and verify my "research"? :)

post #47 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post

>Intel always outputs 16-235 over HDMI. Period. Stop. Settings matter not, Intel chooses to follow strictly the HDMI whitepaper specs for HDMI (16-235).


>You can use DVI or Displayport output to get full range , or you can add a GPU card. Otherwise just go with 16-235 and set up everything accordingly.



 
No, it's not the true. Intel remove this functionality from UI, but it still possible.
 



Anyone, who want FullRange RGB HDMI output on Intel Graphic may try this:
1. Find your current Intel Graphic Adapter software registry instance under:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\xxxx
(0000 on my PC).
2.Create DWORD value:

EnableRGBFullRange
and set it to 1
3. Reboot.
4. Enjoy.

I personally (discover and) test it on HD4000 mobile version with drivers from May 2013 on Windows 7 x64 + HDMI1/DVI input with "PC mode" on Samsung LE40B530 TV as HDMI Sink.

Another thing which I test - Intel drivers (current) don't accept standard MS EDID override feature, but allow the same functionality with ReadEDIDFromRegistry and FakeEDID_%d_%d_%x_%x registry keys pair.
I personally use this to switch HDMI device to DVI mode (Full RGB Range by default) by disabling CEA extension in EDID to verify equality of levels of DVI and HDMI+EnableRGBFullRange.

Can anybody test and verify my "research"? smile.gif

Will try to test this when I get a chance. Thanks!
post #48 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post

>Intel always outputs 16-235 over HDMI. Period. Stop. Settings matter not, Intel chooses to follow strictly the HDMI whitepaper specs for HDMI (16-235).


>You can use DVI or Displayport output to get full range , or you can add a GPU card. Otherwise just go with 16-235 and set up everything accordingly.



 
No, it's not the true. Intel remove this functionality from UI, but it still possible.
 



Anyone, who want FullRange RGB HDMI output on Intel Graphic may try this:
1. Find your current Intel Graphic Adapter software registry instance under:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\xxxx
(0000 on my PC).
2.Create DWORD value:

EnableRGBFullRange
and set it to 1
3. Reboot.
4. Enjoy.

I personally (discover and) test it on HD4000 mobile version with drivers from May 2013 on Windows 7 x64 + HDMI1/DVI input with "PC mode" on Samsung LE40B530 TV as HDMI Sink.

Another thing which I test - Intel drivers (current) don't accept standard MS EDID override feature, but allow the same functionality with ReadEDIDFromRegistry and FakeEDID_%d_%d_%x_%x registry keys pair.
I personally use this to switch HDMI device to DVI mode (Full RGB Range by default) by disabling CEA extension in EDID to verify equality of levels of DVI and HDMI+EnableRGBFullRange.

Can anybody test and verify my "research"? smile.gif

It seems it's working on my laptop with HD4000 (creating value EnableRGBFullRange). Wow
post #49 of 184
Really? That would be quite cool !! The next question would be: Does it work with both the older (Sandy / Ivy Bridge) drivers and the newer (Ivy Bridge / Haswell) drivers?
post #50 of 184
Changing the image mode on my Dell desktop monitor from "media" to "gaming" made those squares show up, lol.

Bill
post #51 of 184
what squares?
I don't see any difference (my ib is attached via a denon avr to my tv)
Driver is still 3165, pending 3257..
Is the AVR spoiling everything here?
post #52 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Mitra View Post

what squares?
I don't see any difference (my ib is attached via a denon avr to my tv)
Driver is still 3165, pending 3257..
Is the AVR spoiling everything here?

Bottom picture in post #43. You should see a bunch of squares under each number, like the white only darker as you go backwards. You can also follow the link that was posted prior to embedding the pics.

Your Denon should have an option in HDMI settings to switch between normal and enhanced, my 4311 does.

Bill
post #53 of 184
I made the registry change, rebooted, and looked at the example in post 43. Didn't see any changes and most boxes weren't visible.. Then dug out the TV's manual and found the setting to change it on the display. Now I see each box in post 43 (well, the first three looked the same, but that had more to do with the lighting in the room).

From my Panasonic TC-P65GT30 manual:

HDMI settings HDMI/DVI RGB
range (HDMI 1-4)
Auto/
Standard
(16-235)/
Nonstandard
Prevents the blown out highlights and blocked up shadows when
a wide-range signal is received. Selects between standard RGB
range (16-235 bits) or non-compliance (0-255 bits).
Auto: Switches the RGB range (Standard (16-235)/
Nonstandard) depending on the HDMI signal information.
post #54 of 184

>madshi

>Does it work with both the older (Sandy / Ivy Bridge) drivers and the newer (Ivy Bridge / Haswell) drivers?

This key exists from very early drivers - G35 beginning, AFAIK

post #55 of 184
That's cool, I'll add this to my madNvLevelsTweaker tool when I find some time. I guess I should rename it to madLevelsTweaker then...
post #56 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

That's cool, I'll add this to my madNvLevelsTweaker tool when I find some time. I guess I should rename it to madLevelsTweaker then...

As you wish :) 

post #57 of 184
When I was adding this registry key (BTW, it works for me), I also saw EnableHDMIUnderscan value in there. Wonder if this somehow turns on some underscan feature for HDMI connection to TV.
post #58 of 184
it seems my denon 1911 doesn't do this.... In fact my denon doesn't have any option of that kind.
I doubt any denons do this since the RGB option seems to have gone away for quite some time now, as I read elsewhere in this forum.
Maybe on higher level models starting with 2xxx

Anyway limited seems to work the way it should and it lokks mostly good.
Will have to stay with that for now then.
post #59 of 184
The only reason we need this override is for LCD monitors that has HDMI port but doesn't support limited range (many < $200 cheap LCDs do this). If you have a TV or AVR, there is no reason to use this fix (it doesn't give you any benefits). Out of box, intel's choice works for majority of the TVs and AVRs.
post #60 of 184
I have a Samsung LED UN55EH6000, and I was under the impression that leaving my RGB output alone and setting the HDMI Black Level to (Low) translates the output 16 -> 0 when displayed on screen

The options were Low, Normal, and High. Even though it seems like Low wouldn't provide the best black levels from the description, my observations are that Low has the best black level for my setup's video output (limited RGB)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Home Theater Computers
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › Theory About Intel's HDMI Quantization Range Setting (Full 0-255)