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Recommended speakers for new Denon AVR X4000?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Hi there, I've just bought a Denon AVR X4000, and now I'm looking for a 5.1 speaker system, I want to start with choosing the 2 floorstanding speakers at the front, and for this I was thinking about the Polk's lsim705 and matching speakers from polk, but yesterday went to Fry's and the guy there told me that a smaller speaker is a better match, he showed me the Klipsh RF-82 II, those sounded much better than the bigger RF-7 II (they didn't had LSim705, so compared these instead), (he said klipsh is better than polk for a 5.1) now I'm reading articles online and see that the speakers should have 10% less power handling than the AVR, should handle 8 Ohms, sensitivity over 90 db, etc.; so what would you recommend me for this AVR? I will use it 50% for movies, surround, etc., and 50% for music listening, at my living room 16x16 ft aprox., and expect to spend a maximum of $3,000 dlls...thank you in advance for all your suggestions!
Edited by hedi - 6/16/13 at 8:45am
post #2 of 22
Denon X4000 should be able to output 143.3 WPC 8 ohms/225.5 WPC 4 ohms x 2Ch driven and 103.0 WPC x all 5 Ch driven simultaneously (5Ch Stereo mode). For 5.1 movies, that never happens because only the front 3 speakers require most of the power and the surrounds require very little.

For a 16' x 16' room, I'm guessing you'll be listening/watching from about 10' or 3 meters distance.

But let's just assume all five channels and all five speakers are concurrently cranking out a peak of 105dB from 3m distance, which is too loud for me, especially when you add the volume from the subwoofer, which may be a cumulative of 115dB peak.

Let's assume your speakers have a sensitivity of 89dB/w/m.

So to produce a peak of 105dB from all five speakers simultaneously from 3m, your AVR would require 90 watts per Ch x 5 ch simultaneously, which the X4000 can do (103 WPC x 5Ch).

However, since most of the power requirement is in the bass region (subwoofer), just set your speakers to Small, crossover @ 80Hz, and the actual power requirement from your speakers will be substantially less than that number. Your powered subwoofer will do all the heavy lifting.

So really, in your case as well as most people (5.1), having a 90+dB/w/m speaker is often unnecessary.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 6/16/13 at 10:20am
post #3 of 22
For subwoofer:

Subwoofer Performance
CEA Standard (THD <10%, 2 Meters) SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:

$1200 B&W ASW-610XP: 85.1/96.1/101.5/105.9/108.9
$500 EMP ES1010i: 85.0/97.0/102.5/106.0/105.0
$700 Emotiva X-Ref 12: 81.0/99.1/103.5/107.6/108.5
$1600 Klipsch SW-311: 84.2/102.6/105.3/108.6/111.4
$769 SVS PB12-NSD: 103.2/105.9/106.5/107.3/108.0
$4000 Velodyne DD15+: 97.0/102.0/109.0/109.0/112.0
$900 Aperion Bravus II 12D: 87.0/105.3/109.8/112.6/112.2
$879 Velodyne EQ-MAX15: 84.8/104.2/110.0/114.2/114.8
$1,200 RBH SX-12: 87.7/108.0/111.1/113.7/112.7
$740 Outlaw LFM-1EX: 101.0/110.7/112.3/113.7/113.8
$799 Power Sound XV15: 102.7/109.6/113.7/116.6/114.7
$800 Epik Empire: 102.2/109.7/113.2/116.4/119.2
$2200 JL Audio F112: 92.8/112.4/116.2/113.3/117.6
$1700 Funk FW12X: 107.0/112.4/114.0/113.9/113.1
$1400 SVS PB12+: 107.0/111.5/114.3/115.3/115.3
$9,000 Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106.4/109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
$1022 Hsu VTF-15H: 103.9/113.0/115.7/115.7/115.6
$5,000 Velodyne DD18+: 103.4/113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
$2,000 SVS PB13 Ultra: 110.6/113.5/115.5/117.5/117.8
$700 Chase HT VS18.1: 111.1/ 116.0/118.1/117.8/117.2
$1,400 Rythmik FV15HP: 108.1/117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8

So the $740 Outlaw LFM-1EX or $799 PSA XV15 might be good.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 6/16/13 at 5:44pm
post #4 of 22
post #5 of 22
AcuDefTechGuy ... The KEF Q500 tower has the same 5.25" Uni-Q as the Q200c (and the Q100) while the Q700 has the larger 6.5" Uni-Q. What do you think of replacing the Q700 with a Q500? Then you'd have the same tweeter/midrange driver all the way around, NTM it would be tad cheaper.

Or, if staying with the larger Q700 towers maybe bump up to the Q600c center (only $120 more for a total of $1970), then all three front speakers LCR would have the same 6.5" tweeter/midrange driver.
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

AcuDefTechGuy ... The KEF Q500 tower has the same 5.25" Uni-Q as the Q200c (and the Q100) while the Q700 has the larger 6.5" Uni-Q. What do you think of replacing the Q700 with a Q500? Then you'd have the same tweeter/midrange driver all the way around, NTM it would be tad cheaper.

Or, if staying with the larger Q700 towers maybe bump up to the Q600c center (only $120 more for a total of $1970), then all three front speakers LCR would have the same 6.5" tweeter/midrange driver.

Either way would work. I would go for Q900 + Q600 + Q300. biggrin.gif
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedi View PostHi there, I've just bought a Denon AVR X4000, and now I'm looking for a 5.1 speaker system, .....thank you in advance for all your suggestions!

How do you like the X4000?

post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thank you for all your input! it's been of great help!, AcuDefTechGuy: do you think Kef is much better than klipsh?

wse: I've just bought the x4000 on line, it's supposed to arrive tomorrow, so I don't know if it will fill my expectatives (I think it will), but will post something once I install it.

Btw, today I went back to Fry's to check on the speakers, they just had the polk line and the klipsh line connected to a Denon 3313 (which I think is a very similar quality to the x4000), and the klipsh RF-82 II sounded heavenly, they told me they don't sell Kef, I don't think I'll buy without hearing them first, so, do you think I should really look up to it, or should I go for the Klipsh already?

This are the ones I liked:

http://www.klipsch.com/rf-82-ii-floorstanding-speaker

Tnks!
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedi View Post

Thank you for all your input! it's been of great help!, AcuDefTechGuy: do you think Kef is much better than klipsh?

wse: I've just bought the x4000 on line, it's supposed to arrive tomorrow, so I don't know if it will fill my expectatives (I think it will), but will post something once I install it.

Btw, today I went back to Fry's to check on the speakers, they just had the polk line and the klipsh line connected to a Denon 3313 (which I think is a very similar quality to the x4000), and the klipsh RF-82 II sounded heavenly, they told me they don't sell Kef, I don't think I'll buy without hearing them first, so, do you think I should really look up to it, or should I go for the Klipsh already?

This are the ones I liked:

http://www.klipsch.com/rf-82-ii-floorstanding-speaker

Tnks!
I think what YOU prefer is more important than what people think. biggrin.gif

Some people think Klipsch speakers sound "bright" or "forward", but I think they sound just fine. So no, I don't think KEF Q sound much better than Klipsch.

I think if you feel the RF-82 sound heavenly, then audition for more extended period with more music, and buy them if you still think they sound great. Trust your ears, not other people's comments about what they like.

What YOU like is the important thing.

BTW, I bet a nice Klipsch dealer on AVS could get you a sweet price on the RF-7II for perhaps $1800/PR. wink.gif

I bet dealer cost is close to $800 each in the RF-7II. biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 6/17/13 at 6:57am
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Hehe, yes, there's psichology involved on this too smile.gif

About the Rf-7 II, I heard and comapred the RF-7 II with the RF-82, and the RF-82 had a much cleaner sound, the RF-7 kind of hurt my ears with the mid and tweeter, I thought that maybe the RF-7 needs an amp with more WPC and a bigger space to be set...don't know but that fact really cought my attention.

Thanks!
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedi View Post

Hehe, yes, there's psichology involved on this too smile.gif

About the Rf-7 II, I heard and comapred the RF-7 II with the RF-82, and the RF-82 had a much cleaner sound, the RF-7 kind of hurt my ears with the mid and tweeter, I thought that maybe the RF-7 needs an amp with more WPC and a bigger space to be set...don't know but that fact really cought my attention.

Thanks!

Oh, in that case, just get the RF82 since they sound better to you. I doubt the amp has anything to do with the sound difference. These speakers are very sensitive and require very little power. Trust your ears, but make sure you listen for at least an hour straight just to make sure you don't get fatigue.

Regardless of price, get the one that sounds best.
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedi View Post Thank you for all your input! it's been of great help!, AcuDefTechGuy: do you think Kef is much better than klipsh?

wse: I've just bought the x4000 on line, it's supposed to arrive tomorrow, so I don't know if it will fill my expectatives (I think it will), but will post something once I install it.

Please let us know!

post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Hi, it took me a while, but according to my budget I went for the Kef Q-900 floor standing, and the rest of the matching center and sub bundle (Q600, Q400) to complete the 5.1 lineup. Because of space reasonsI had to go for the in-ceiling CI200QL for the surround.

I am very pleased with the decision, this bundle sounds GREAT! either for movies or music, highs, middles or lows, very clear, they don't quit, just great.

BTW the X4000,,,,Audissey XT32....wow!! very pleased with it.

Now, I will be focusing on new HT furniture, bigger screen, HTPC...well, that's another story...

Thank you for all your input!

Here's a pic...

post #14 of 22
i have a pair of KEF R500. Is it a good pair with Denon x4000, is it a good sound ? Nominally, Kef are 8 ohm, but the minimum is 3.2 ohm ( around 150 hz). I want to stay to 2.1, not to add center or surrounds, x4000 will be able to drive them easy ? confused.gif
post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by traianescu View Post

i have a pair of KEF R500. Is it a good pair with Denon x4000, is it a good sound ? Nominally, Kef are 8 ohm, but the minimum is 3.2 ohm ( around 150 hz). I want to stay to 2.1, not to add center or surrounds, x4000 will be able to drive them easy ? confused.gif

I think it would work
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedi View Post

Hi, it took me a while, but according to my budget I went for the Kef Q-900 floor standing, and the rest of the matching center and sub bundle (Q600, Q400) to complete the 5.1 lineup. Because of space reasonsI had to go for the in-ceiling CI200QL for the surround.

I am very pleased with the decision, this bundle sounds GREAT! either for movies or music, highs, middles or lows, very clear, they don't quit, just great.

BTW the X4000,,,,Audissey XT32....wow!! very pleased with it.

Now, I will be focusing on new HT furniture, bigger screen, HTPC...well, that's another story...

Thank you for all your input!

Here's a pic...

Congrats !

Is that KEF 10" sub any good? biggrin.gif

Most people would not think so, but as long as you think it sounds great, that's all it matters. biggrin.gif

Enjoy!
post #17 of 22
i don't know really… i thought that q series and r series are different sound signature… seems many prefers anthem, arcam , pioneer, but nobody says something about denon… or marantz
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by traianescu View Post

i don't know really… i thought that q series and r series are different sound signature… seems many prefers anthem, arcam , pioneer, but nobody says something about denon… or marantz

Many, many audiophiles, including the KEF speaker engineers, think the R & Q sound very similar.

And many, many audiophiles think Denon/ Marantz sound amazing.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Congrats !

Is that KEF 10" sub any good? biggrin.gif

Most people would not think so, but as long as you think it sounds great, that's all it matters. biggrin.gif

Enjoy!

Well, so far so good...any known issues about the sub?, actually I was thinking on adding a second one in the future, when I am redady to upgrade to 9.2... eek.gif
post #20 of 22
Hedi, so do the Kef sound better than the Klipsch RF82ii? Any reason you went with Kef unheard versus the Klipsch RF82ii that sound 'heavenly' to you?
post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Hedi, so do the Kef sound better than the Klipsch RF82ii? Any reason you went with Kef unheard versus the Klipsch RF82ii that sound 'heavenly' to you?

I had the chance to hear the Q900s, as you may see on the post dates I took my time, the main reason for choosing kef was the middle and twitter, finally I liked Kef's better.
post #22 of 22
^^good to know
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