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are 7channel analog inputs needed on new recievers??

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I'm looking to update my older yamaha 5550 reciever....I have the Golden ear triton 2's and the svs pb-12 sub .....I have a center and surrounds but I listen to mostly 2channel music....
I'm noticing most of the recievers I'm running into except the Marantz don't have 7ch analog inputs...I use an oppo 83 and use the analog output for most of my listening on 2ch or for surround...the 2ch analog output of the oppo 83 has fantastic sound....
So let me ask with some of the recievers I'm looking at like the anthem 500 or 700, or Denons....that don't have analog inputs.Will I regret not getting something with the 7channel input?? Or is the hdmi hookup just as good?
Thanks for the help....
Rick
post #2 of 20
HDMI should be just as good. Many high-end receivers support DSD (SACD audio) over HDMI, for example. Also, receivers with room equalization are unable to apply it to their multi-channel analog audio inputs. The improvement in sound quality provided by that EQ usually is much more noticeable than whatever subtle improvement is provided by high-end DACs.
post #3 of 20
I also prefer the sound quality of the analog outputs when listening to 2-channel music.

Another issue is the fact that the sound often "cuts out" on the HDMI connection for one or two seconds when any other component connected to HDMI is turned on or off or changes mode.

Of course when playing SACDs the analog outputs are often the only ones that function and HDMI is not always an option, depending on the brand and model of the player.

There are many many complaints about Anthem receivers online lately, and Anthem does not seem to be very helpful with resolving the issues, according to the owner complaints I have read.. Anthem receivers are also notorious for low-quality amplifiers that put out only a fraction of what their specs imply. I would warn any friend of mine to avoid Anthem like the Black Plague.

For example, the MRX 700 was tested by Home Theater and found to put out only 43 watts per channel to 7 channels. Compare that to the Denon 3312, which puts out 80 watts per channel in the same test and the Cambridge Audio 651R, which outs out 100 watts per channel to all 7 channels. If anyone questions this go to Home Theater's website and read the lab test results for all 3 units yourself. I think the power output of the MRX 700 is so disgraceful they should pull it off of the market; selling that unit for the high price it goes for borders on fraud in my opinion.

IMO the Cambridge Audio 651R and 751R are the Porsches of the receivers on the market, and the Anthem receivers are sort of like a Yugo. Caveat Emptor.

IMO the Cambridge Audio receivers have by far the best sound quality of any receiver you can buy (Home Theater backs this up), unless you go with a Bryston Sound Processor and amplifiers, which will cost around $15,000.

You can find the 651R for under $2000.

If I were rating receiver brands, I would place Anthem dead last in quality, below Sherwood and Sony. IMO they stink.

Oh...the Cambridge receivers also DO have analog preouts and inputs for all channels.
Edited by commsysman - 6/21/13 at 2:21pm
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Also, receivers with room equalization are unable to apply it to their multi-channel analog audio inputs. The improvement in sound quality provided by that EQ usually is much more noticeable than whatever subtle improvement is provided by high-end DACs.

Incorrect...
Certain Harman/Kardon and Denon AVRs utilize an 8 channel digitizer circuit so that a source with a 7.1 analog output will incorporate the same Room EQ and Bass Management parameters as any digital HDMI and/or S/PDIF source..

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
post #5 of 20
^^
Seldon was likely referring to the "common man's" AVR models and also something more current. In the Denon line, the only models that can do this going back at least 7 years would be the 5808CI ($5000) and the AVP ($7500).
post #6 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Seldon was likely referring to the "common man's" AVR models and also something more current. In the Denon line, the only models that can do this going back at least 7 years would be the 5808CI ($5000) and the AVP ($7500).

so Selden probably have said "most" AVRs can't apply room correction to analog inputs.

Of course if a person believes the sound is better going through the player's DACs than through the receiver's, adding an A to D to allow correction followed by D to A in the receiver's DAC seems counterproductive. All of which assumes, I think, purely sighted "testing"
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

so Selden probably have said "most" AVRs can't apply room correction to analog inputs.

Of course if a person believes the sound is better going through the player's DACs than through the receiver's, adding an A to D to allow correction followed by D to A in the receiver's DAC seems counterproductive. All of which assumes, I think, purely sighted "testing"

Not debating what sounds better..
Simply correcting an inaccurate statement, for Harman/Kardon AVRs the 8 channel digitizer was 1st implemented in late 2004 for the AVR745, and later in their 7550HD/760 flagship..

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
post #8 of 20
Right ... the majority who have tried both ways would likely agree that you are much better served passing DSD audio as PCM via HDMI and using the on board Audssey EQ vs. using the multi analog inputs and no Audyssey.
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Incorrect...
Certain Harman/Kardon and Denon AVRs utilize an 8 channel digitizer circuit so that a source with a 7.1 analog output will incorporate the same Room EQ and Bass Management parameters as any digital HDMI and/or S/PDIF source..

Just my $0.02... 👍😉

Which H/K's allowed EZSetEQ with the m/c analogs? I don't remember my 7550HD doing it when I had it and I don't think my 745 (not currently hooked up) does either. Or did I miss something! I had a Pioneer 59txi a few years ago and I think it did. But it was a while ago and I could be remembering things wrong.

FWIW, one of my best sounding setups was an H/K 7200, OPPO 83SE and Audiocontrol Rialto eq thru the analogs of course. I sometimes wish I still had them.

I listen to all my two channel audio with analog connections sometimes with room correction and sometimes in Pure Analog mode. Analog just sounds better to me then hdmi/optical. But it does depend on the equipment involved.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
You are giving me alot to think about especially your comments on the Anthem Recievers.......I will look over the Cambridge audio recievers, I have been reading a few really good things on them....What are your feelings on the Marantz line? I know quite a few do have analog inputs, or would I be better with the better power of the cambridge audio.......I finally have some good speakers and just want to try to get the best I can out of them without taking out a mortgage....
Rick
post #11 of 20
This Pure Direct Block Diagram showing multichannel analog input processing options appeared unchanged in Yamaha's promotional material through their Fall 2006 product lineup, and possibly later.


_
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
Looking over the cambridge audio recievers, how is the room eq correction, I'm reading it doesn't do bass management? Is that possible in a 2000 dollar reciever?
Rick
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickPas View Post

Looking over the cambridge audio recievers, how is the room eq correction, I'm reading it doesn't do bass management? Is that possible in a 2000 dollar reciever?
Rick
yup,2eq the most basic of them all in a 2k avr. I guess I expect xt32 w/ that price tag. If RC is meaningless to you then maybe its an easier choice. if its my money though at that price I would go separates.
post #14 of 20
Bass management is different from room correction/EQ. I've not read such comments about not doing BM.

Beware that the above comments on the Anthem isn't shall we say, mainstream opinion here. Pretty much the same has been posted repeatedly by the same person and you should see what others have to say about these.biggrin.gif

If you think the analogue output of the Oppo 83 'sounds fantastic' you will be happy with anything smile.gif, because it uses CS DACs, which aren't particularly 'the best regarded' compared to Wolfson, BB and of course the Sabre, well pretty much everything else.

HDMI route passing PCM is the way to go for MCH SACD (analogue can work with 2CH if you don't want .1), you don't NEED to pass DSD to receivers. It may not even be desirable. This 'preserving pure DSD' is another futile path to pursue.

With HDMI you no longer need to deal with the +15dB sub boost (did you?) AND you can apply room correction.

The 'better power' thing makes very little if any difference under normal listening conditions.
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickPas View Post

Looking over the cambridge audio recievers, how is the room eq correction, I'm reading it doesn't do bass management? Is that possible in a 2000 dollar reciever?
Rick

Just to confirm ... Audyssey 2EQ does not "EQ" the subwoofer while all of the higher versions, MultEQ, MultEQ XT, and MultEQ XT32 do EQ the subwoofer.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickPas View Post

I'm looking to update my older yamaha 5550 reciever....I have the Golden ear triton 2's and the svs pb-12 sub .....I have a center and surrounds but I listen to mostly 2channel music....
I'm noticing most of the recievers I'm running into except the Marantz don't have 7ch analog inputs...I use an oppo 83 and use the analog output for most of my listening on 2ch or for surround...the 2ch analog output of the oppo 83 has fantastic sound....
So let me ask with some of the recievers I'm looking at like the anthem 500 or 700, or Denons....that don't have analog inputs.Will I regret not getting something with the 7channel input?? Or is the hdmi hookup just as good?
Thanks for the help....
Rick

An analog multichannel input is only a useful feature in the following two circumstances:

1) You listen to multichannel audio from an obsolete player. Pretty much anything made since the middle of last decade will pass multichannel over HDMI. (And whether the AVR natively transcodes DSD to PCM - they all transcode DSD to PCM - or the player does it, who cares except for people who kvetch better than they hear?)

2) You plan to use the AVR as a standalone multichannel amp - say, you're building a set of 3-way stereo speakers, and using an active crossover.

Otherwise, there's no point to it.

That said, unless you really need the built-in streaming capabilities, the MRX300 is just as good as the '500 and '700. The power difference is de minimis, and the '300 is usefully cheaper. But any of the three will be superior to some Cambridge Audio part with inferior room correction.
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
I didn't word it right before, you are right the Azur does have bass management but not bass correction...WHich I think is a bigger issue for me....I have a good size room and the thing I have always been missing with my Yamaha is getting a better setting from my sub.....So that may lead me back to the Anthem or Marantz.....
Rick
post #18 of 20
I've always felt that Marantz receivers were over-priced when compared to their Denon cousins, both as new and refurbished. But I do own a 6005 (ebay) and a 5005 (ac4l.com) as I find them much easier to setup and operate then Denons. I don't knoe enough about Anthem to have an opinion but have always lusted after them as well as Arcam, Rotel and NAD.

Ac4l.com does have the 705 as a refurb for $888 and free shipping. A 5 year extended warranty is $90. The newer 7007 is $1199.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR7005/MARANTZ-SR7005-3D-Ready-7.2-Home-Theater-Networking-Receiver/1.html#!more

I would also throw the Integra 50.4 or higher into the ring but they can be expensive if bought new. They aren't discounted like Onkyo's but are supposed to have better quality control. I had a 70.2 for a while. Fantastic receiver. I buy all my receivers as used or refurbs. Been pretty lucky....so far.
post #19 of 20
I've always felt that Marantz receivers were over-priced when compared to their Denon cousins, both as new and refurbished. But I do own a 6005 (ebay) and a 5005 (ac4l.com) as I find them much easier to setup and operate then Denons. I don't knoe enough about Anthem to have an opinion but have always lusted after them as well as Arcam, Rotel and NAD.

Ac4l.com does have the 705 as a refurb for $888 and free shipping. A 5 year extended warranty is $90. The newer 7007 is $1199.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR7005/MARANTZ-SR7005-3D-Ready-7.2-Home-Theater-Networking-Receiver/1.html#!more

I would also throw the Integra 50.4 or higher into the ring but they can be expensive if bought new. They aren't discounted like Onkyo's but are supposed to have better quality control. I had a 70.2 for a while. Fantastic receiver. I buy all my receivers as used or refurbs. Been pretty lucky....so far.
post #20 of 20
Don't forget that authorized Denon and Marantz dealers are only allowed to publish list prices. You have to contact them directly to get the best pricing, which is quite a bit lower. D&M does not honor the warranty if a unit is purchased from an unauthorized dealer.

As best I can determine, the Marantz SR7008 is functionally identical to the Denon X4000 except that the U.S. version of the X4000 lacks multichannel preamp inputs and adds the proprietary DenonLink, which works only with current generation Denon disc players.
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