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CHECKERBOARD 3D FORMAT VS FRAME-PACKED/FRAME SEQ 720p 3D FORMATS :

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I want to post some info for all the people boasting that Checkerboard is TRUE 1080p 3D and provides the BEST 3D format... THEY almost royally screwed me into getting a CHECKERBOARD compatible unit...This really would have kept me from making an informed decision. I probably would NOT have bought my NON/Checkerboard ViewSonic Projector haha! People need to know the facts before they buy... Hopefully this will get people to quit OBSESSING over the damn INFERIOR Checkerboard 3D Format!


CHECKERBOARD 3D FORMAT COMPARED TO FRAME-PACKED/FRAME SEQ 720p 3D FORMATS :

(1920x1080 Interleaved Wobulation : Artifacts/Blur Issues, Identical to Interlaced Scan, Pixel Size/Structure increased/Manipulated : NOT TRUE 1080p FULL 3D)
960x540 : 320 less HORIZONTAL pixels - ONE EYE
960x540 : 180 less VERTICAL pixels - ONE EYE

VS

(720p HD : 1280x720 per eye, Progressive Scan, NO artifacts CAN be Super/Downsampled in HQ w/anti-aliasing : GPU Options)
1280x720 : 320 more HORIZONTAL pixels - BOTH EYES/No Wobulation/Manipulation
1280x720 : 180 more VERICAL pixels - BOTH EYES/No Wobulation/Manipulation



IF THESE SPECS THAT OTHERS HAVE STATED ARE CORRECT... THEN 720p FP/FS 60hz/120hz for NVIDIA 3DTV Play/VISION IS THE BEST OPTION AND MOST FLEXIBLE FORMAT

Maybye I am wrong about the Checkerboard pixel count but thats what I read... It said half resolution for each eye "Interleaved/Interlaced" Using Wobulation and larger pixel structure : 960x540 per eye



"Quoted from source"

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/3d-tv-buyer-s-guide-picture-formats_Page-5

"Checkerboard 3D was designed specifically for DLP (rear projection) televisions. It works by interleaving the images for the left and right eye into a single image, so that one pixel goes to your left eye while its neighbour goes to the right eye, and so on. The TV then separates these two frames images out to produce half-resolution 3D."


(I would NOT trust what Texas Instruments say, After all they Made/Marketed the format lol)



SO in conclusion I would say this : If you have Nvidia 3DTV Play/Vision USE - Framepacked@60hz / Frame Sequential@120hz (FULL FRAMED 720p 1280x720 Scaled to native display 3D)
AND if you have Tridef DDD USE - 1920x1080@60hz 1080p TOP & BOTTOM/SIDE BY SIDE 3D Formats.

BTW : Just so you know - Checkerboard 3D looks about the same as : 1280x720 720p SCALED on a 1080p Native display. I checked it out and it blurs and distorts a lot of details.
SO just imagine if you DOWN-SAMPLED and MAXED out your GPU options and RUN 720p FULL 3D, or 1080p T&B or SBS?

Just some food for thought... I almost bought a 1000 dollar Plasma just to have Checkerboard. NOW I AM GLAD I DIDN'T!
If you are thinking of getting a projector but worried about the Scaling it will do to a 720p render on a native 1080p Display...
DON'T BE... AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT CHECKERBOARD!




Here is some more info on the artifacts that get produced with Checkerboard 3D format

http://www.hometheater.com/content/3d-broadcast-formats

"Checkerboard compression can exhibit more artifacts than either of the other two formats"




ALSO go after the newer projectors with Active 3D Tech! The new 144hz Refresh Rates make flicker a NON Issue now!



Thanks for your time
Edited by Jonathan Hersey - 6/23/13 at 2:48am
post #2 of 12
I don't know what you're on about. I've tried about every 3D format with the exception of dual polarized projectors over the years, and rear projection DLP checkerboard is very good overall with very high bang for the buck. Its main flaw to me was loss of light and color brilliance, which is the case with most active displays. Not that it matters since the format has been extinct for a few years now.
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
pixel ratio is horrible. and artifacts are just unacceptable. It looks blurry and only works well on blu-ray movies.

All my opinion of course. I think Down-sampled 720p is the best Quality
post #4 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkor View Post

I don't know what you're on about. I've tried about every 3D format with the exception of dual polarized projectors over the years, and rear projection DLP checkerboard is very good overall with very high bang for the buck. Its main flaw to me was loss of light and color brilliance, which is the case with most active displays. Not that it matters since the format has been extinct for a few years now.

I guess I will add 2 more marks against CHECKERBOARD lol

- More light loss in 3D
- Colors have less brilliance
post #5 of 12
I find checkerboard 3D mode to be very useful for what I do.
I have two monitors on my desk at my office. One is a 120 Hertz ASUS 3D 23 inch monitor and the other is a Samsung 40 inch LCD 3DTV. I drive them with a NVIDIA Quadro 4000 graphics card.
Most of the 3D I watch is via Solidworks eDrawings viewer.
I actually prefer to view my design models in 3D on the Samsung 3DTV in checkerboard format as does my patent attorney.
I would love to display my 3D designs on a front projector in this format but it seems the front projector manufactures have chosen to not support the one mode that I want (checkerboard).
Solidworks eDrawings viewer does not support 720P.
post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Here are the facts.

1080p Top-Bottom or SbS: 1,036,800 pixels per eye
1080p Checkerboard: 518,400 pixels per eye
720p Frame Seq: 921,600 pixels per eye



I wonder if VGA can handle Frame Sequential 1080p 60hz or 120hz?
post #7 of 12
Your information is wrong. DLPS do not have pixels, and BTW, resolution is measured in lines, not pixels, as in 1920 by 1080 LINES of resolution.

DLP's use diamond shape mirrors which project twice the area of a normal pixel for each mirror. On the second pass, it projects another set overlapping the first giving the illusion of pixel structure. Because the mirrors are diamond shaped, they fit together with their centers lined up along each of the 1920 vertical lines and the 1080 horizontal lines.

For 3d half of the original pixels are sampled for each eye in a checkerboard pattern, and then projected with the entire field of mirrors. one pass is shown to each eye, and because the diamonds are twice the pixel size, the corners of the diamonds fill in the space where the missing pixels would be, thus filling the entire screen covering all 1920 by 1080 lines.

While it is true checkerboard SAMPLES half of the pixels, they are projected twice the size in the interlocking pattern of diamonds, filling the entire screen, with the corners of the diamonds interpolating the "missing" pixels.
post #8 of 12
DLPs are fast enough that I don't see why they don't project 1080 per eye. TV lines are NTSC- analog, ATSC-HD is digital with pixels. HD TVs are mostly 1920x1080 pixels. Lines of resolution was for analog (CRT) TVs. They don't have pixels and converted the pixels to lines.
Edited by Bill - 8/1/13 at 11:15pm
post #9 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post

DLPs are fast enough that I don't see why they don't project 1080 per eye. TV lines are NTSC- analog, ATSC-HD is digital with pixels. HD TVs are mostly 1920x1080 pixels. Lines of resolution was for analog (CRT) TVs. They don't have pixels and converted the pixels to lines.

Again, by definition it is 1080 per eye, and always will be, as each line is reproduced by the mirrors. There has been a lot of misreporting on DLP technology by bloggers and tech writers who never really understood resolution or DLPs, especially DMD operation.

"Lines of resolution" is the standard, always has been. CRTs did not convert pixels to lines. The term pixel did not exist when CRTs were invented, nor when the standard for resolution was determined.

CRTs draw the lines with a continuous electron beam, LCDs and plasma produce the lines as dots or pix-els(picture elements) in a row, and DLPs draw the lines using mirrors reflecting colored light, capable of displaying either lines or pixel information using computer algorithyms. Don't forget, there are no pixels in film or real life.

Pixels are a downside of LCD and plasma, and have borders around them. They don't present a natural image due to the screen door effect of the pixel borders. Thankfully, as the tech advances, the picture is drawn with smaller and smaller pixels and becomes more watchable.
Edited by Augerhandle - 8/2/13 at 8:19am
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Hersey View Post

Here are the facts.

1080p Top-Bottom or SbS: 1,036,800 pixels per eye
1080p Checkerboard: 518,400 pixels per eye...
Both top/bottom and SbS are 518,400 pixels per eye...

The "facts" are that those formats are missing entire lines, so they only have half the LINES of resolution (1920 x 540 for TB, 960 x 1080 for SbS), which makes THEM the half resolution formats.
Edited by Augerhandle - 8/3/13 at 7:28am
post #11 of 12
DLPs do display pixels, not lines. However the edges of the pixels overlap ala CRT. Checkerboard is obviously not 1080 per eye. Don't know why DLPs do it that way. They are fast enough not to. Maybe when they first came out they weren't. Theater DLPs do 4K at 120fps per eye.
Edited by Bill - 8/4/13 at 11:55pm
post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post

...Checkerboard is obviously not 1080 per eye...

Listen to yourself. To what do you think 1080 refers? LINES.

If you count the lines of mirrors on a DMD chip, you will find there are 1920 vertical lines, and 1080 horizontal lines, end of story. (actually there are more lines than that, but that's how many are used to display the picture).

You should learn more about how CRTs and DLPs operate. In my experience, very few really get how DLPs work. Check out the pdf in my signature, and see if it helps.
Edited by Augerhandle - 8/5/13 at 10:08am
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AVS › AVS Forum › 3D Central › 3D Displays › CHECKERBOARD 3D FORMAT VS FRAME-PACKED/FRAME SEQ 720p 3D FORMATS :