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Pioneer Elite SC-75/77/79 Anticipation Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

I'm looking forward to your full review.

Just hooked it up..Still I am exploring stuff. but will try to post some pics of that beauty smile.gif No time to do a full review yet coz of work stuff ..Will try my best
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I am also interested in your review on paper it sounds like its what I want was thinking about the SC-72 but those Sabre Dacs and other things have me rethinking .

So far I was able to test with airplay and some cable content..Did'nt get a chance to test Blu rays..But coming from an onkyo, I can say my polk satelites are getting a real work out smile.gif..Will let you guys know more once I get into it..Planning to connect Zone 2 for my patio this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

looks like you have the privilege of starting an Owners Thread, if you like smile.gif

Thanks for giving me the opportunity ss9001!..Will start a SC75/77/79 owners thread with some nice pics smile.gif

Credit goes to ABT, as I was able to get a good discount . Ordered on Mon and got it on Thurs! It was well packed and double boxed!
Edited by jingoboy_78 - 7/15/13 at 7:12am
post #62 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyc1 View Post

I stumbled on this write-up while Googelng: Sabre 32 DAC vs ...Was just wondering if i should wait for the new Pioneer 1523-k to come out using these Sabre-32 DAC's or just buy the 1522-k

Found this write-up from MSB Technology :



A DAC is a circuit that converts digital measures of audio amplitude in discrete steps into a continuous analog electrical equivalent of the sound to be reproduced. We have been taught to associate the number of bits in that digital word with the quality of the calculation, but the rate of the converter also comes into play. If we do conversion at 16 bits, 48,000 times per second, it is not the same as doing conversion at 16 bits and 96,000 times per second. Along comes 1 bit DACs and SACD that convert at a much higher rates and the whole idea of performance and bit depth falls apart. But in a ladder DAC like MSB uses, the performance of the DAC is directly linked to the precision of the ladder, and the number of bits in that ladder are critical.

MSB has been shipping a true 24 bit DAC for many years, and now has produced a true 26 bit DAC in the Diamond DAC IV. But we are now facing bold product claims about a new 32 bit DAC availible, namely the Sabre 32 DAC chip. This is a DAC chip just like any other from Burr Brown, AKM or Analog Devices. Lets look a little deeper to avoid any confusion about what this DAC actually is.

Here is what their web site says. “The advantage of using this 32-bit process to reconstruct a 16-bit digital signal (i.e. Redbook CD) is simple; This process interpolates the digital information more accurately by calculating the finer steps with 32-bit resolution that were lost during the analog-to-digital 16-bit mastering process. “

Notice that they use the word “process “ not DAC. Notice they talk about “reconstruct “ and “interpolate “ - both digital terms, not analog conversion. All this is saying is that they are using a digital filter with “32 bit resolution “ to do their math. Big Yawn.

The DAC in question is the Sabre DAC with a retail price of $39. According to the ESS web site, this DAC is designed to bring “true professional digital audio to the mass consumer home entertainment market “.

Lets look at the Sabre Datasheet. Input resolution is 32 bit. Digital filter: 32 bit architecture. Thats all it has to say except it has a THD of -110 dB. So what is the DAC technology? They do not even say!

We dig deeper and find a White Paper. Ah, it is a delta sigma DAC just like everyone else's. Then we find this quote. “After all the DSP and complex noise shaping of the signal is complete the digital number must be converted to an analog output. In principle the typically six bit number may be applied to a six bit DAC and the analog output is produced. “

So the hot new 32 bit DAC is actually a 6 bit DAC! Right from their own white paper. It is undoubtably a good DAC for the mass consumer market it was designed for. It is certainly nothing of interest to the high-end community, especially as the the DAC, digital filter and sample rate converter that cannot be dissabled are all bundled in a single chip so no opportunity exists to improve its performance.

So be informed and do not be fooled by the over-the-top advertising made by the audio companies who actually use this $39 chip.



????
The white Papers it uses is not the DAC in the Elites as I was told its the 9016 so what article did this come from that they could not pull up the proper papers. http://www.esstech.com/?p=products_DAC
post #63 of 381
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyc1 View Post

I stumbled on this write-up while Googelng: Sabre 32 DAC vs ...Was just wondering if i should wait for the new Pioneer 1523-k to come out using these Sabre-32 DAC's or just buy the 1522-k

Found this write-up from MSB Technology :



A DAC is a circuit that converts digital measures of audio amplitude in discrete steps into a continuous analog electrical equivalent of the sound to be reproduced. We have been taught to associate the number of bits in that digital word with the quality of the calculation, but the rate of the converter also comes into play. If we do conversion at 16 bits, 48,000 times per second, it is not the same as doing conversion at 16 bits and 96,000 times per second. Along comes 1 bit DACs and SACD that convert at a much higher rates and the whole idea of performance and bit depth falls apart. But in a ladder DAC like MSB uses, the performance of the DAC is directly linked to the precision of the ladder, and the number of bits in that ladder are critical.

MSB has been shipping a true 24 bit DAC for many years, and now has produced a true 26 bit DAC in the Diamond DAC IV. But we are now facing bold product claims about a new 32 bit DAC availible, namely the Sabre 32 DAC chip. This is a DAC chip just like any other from Burr Brown, AKM or Analog Devices. Lets look a little deeper to avoid any confusion about what this DAC actually is.

Here is what their web site says. “The advantage of using this 32-bit process to reconstruct a 16-bit digital signal (i.e. Redbook CD) is simple; This process interpolates the digital information more accurately by calculating the finer steps with 32-bit resolution that were lost during the analog-to-digital 16-bit mastering process. “

Notice that they use the word “process “ not DAC. Notice they talk about “reconstruct “ and “interpolate “ - both digital terms, not analog conversion. All this is saying is that they are using a digital filter with “32 bit resolution “ to do their math. Big Yawn.

The DAC in question is the Sabre DAC with a retail price of $39. According to the ESS web site, this DAC is designed to bring “true professional digital audio to the mass consumer home entertainment market “.

Lets look at the Sabre Datasheet. Input resolution is 32 bit. Digital filter: 32 bit architecture. Thats all it has to say except it has a THD of -110 dB. So what is the DAC technology? They do not even say!

We dig deeper and find a White Paper. Ah, it is a delta sigma DAC just like everyone else's. Then we find this quote. “After all the DSP and complex noise shaping of the signal is complete the digital number must be converted to an analog output. In principle the typically six bit number may be applied to a six bit DAC and the analog output is produced. “

So the hot new 32 bit DAC is actually a 6 bit DAC! Right from their own white paper. It is undoubtably a good DAC for the mass consumer market it was designed for. It is certainly nothing of interest to the high-end community, especially as the the DAC, digital filter and sample rate converter that cannot be dissabled are all bundled in a single chip so no opportunity exists to improve its performance.

So be informed and do not be fooled by the over-the-top advertising made by the audio companies who actually use this $39 chip.



????

This stuff is a little over my head, but I believe this is the white paper being referenced: http://www.esstech.com/PDF/sabrewp.pdf

I saw this some time back and it sounds to me like statements such as "In principle the typically six bit number may be applied to a six bit DAC and the analog output is produced." are being taken grossly out of context to draw conclusions such as "So the hot new 32 bit DAC is actually a 6 bit DAC! Right from their own white paper." It also appears to me that semantics are being unnecessarily nitpicked in order to draw unfavorable conclusions about the ESS Sabre 32. MSB Technology may have a superior product, but probably at a significantly higher cost. Are there any AVR units using the MSB Technology DACs?
Edited by KC-Technerd - 7/14/13 at 9:30pm
post #64 of 381
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

The white Papers it uses is not the DAC in the Elites as I was told its the 9016 so what article did this come from that they could not pull up the proper papers. http://www.esstech.com/?p=products_DAC

I don't think ESS has released any white papers other than the one referenced.
post #65 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

I don't think ESS has released any white papers other than the one referenced.
You are correct or at least I could not find any.
post #66 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

MSB Technology may have a superior product, but probably at a significantly higher cost. Are there any AVR units using the MSB Technology DACs?

none in AVR's...because the lowest cost MSB DAC product you can buy starts at $3500 and they take off from there! There's a top model that starts at $28000 eek.gif & you can add on proprietary clocking boards. these products are not for the mass consumer wink.gif if you read info on MSB's site, they place a big emphasis on their jitter control & clocking technologies and connections like Ilink & I2S for locked clocked linking to sources that also have those connections.

and does MSB actually make the DAC chip themselves? are they a semiconductor company? probably not wink.gif but they do not specify whose they use or if it's a sourced custom spec chip, who actually makes it.

MSB is truly SOTA hi-end gear but not a typical DAC even for audiophiles wink.gif my perusing the net on DAC's over many years comes up with "affordable" DAC's from companies like Wyred4Sound ($1-1.5K) and even a much more expensive one, like the Weiss at $5-6K, isn't in the same cost bracket as the top MSB models.

so for them to criticize a $40 consumer audiophile DAC is like Ferrari criticizing your Ford Focus! me thinks they protest too much wink.gif

which means the Sabre DAC is probably a darn good DAC for real world "audiophiles".

and every review that I've come across for an external DAC or player that uses the ESS Sabre & Sabre Reference DAC is highly complimentary. there's a 6 Moons review of the Wyred4Sound (w 9018 Sabre Reference) where he compares it to the Weiss costing 3-4 times as much, and is very impressed.

some of these differences in DAC chip specs are in the barely audible or inaudible category anyway so we're talking very subtle differences at best...hair splitting differences wink.gif

plus, implementation & analog stage are more important than the actual chip's specs themselves wink.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 7/15/13 at 4:41am
post #67 of 381
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

plus, implementation & analog stage are more important than the actual chip's specs themselves wink.gif

I am very curious to Pioneer's implementation of 9 DACs. I'd really like to see how the channels are divvied up between them, and I'm curious as to why they chose to use NINE ES9016 Ultras rather than 2 ES9018 Reference DACs. Based on the advertised numbers (and the white paper) I would think the latter would be preferable for both cost and performance, but perhaps in testing various implementations they found the 9 DAC implementation to be superior, which I hope is the case.
post #68 of 381
I would love to see Home Theater Mag do a review and test bench on the 77 or 79.
post #69 of 381
Thread Starter 
I discovered today what many of you probably already know. The Yamaha Aventage RX-A1030 & -A2030 receivers are using ESS Sabre ES9006 Premier DACs (a step below the ES9016 used by the Pioneers). The Yamaha RX-A3030 receiver is using both the ES9006 and ES9016 DACs. The upcoming Yamaha CX-A5000 Preamplifier is using the ES9016.
post #70 of 381
Would love to hear some impressions. I am currently using an old Yamaha rx-v861 with my NHT VT-2 speaker system in an open, vaulted ceiling living room. Wanting to upgrade to either the sc-77, Yamaha A3030, or Marantz 7008.
post #71 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Would love to hear some impressions. I am currently using an old Yamaha rx-v861 with my NHT VT-2 speaker system in an open, vaulted ceiling living room. Wanting to upgrade to either the sc-77, Yamaha A3030, or Marantz 7008.
Either one will be fine
post #72 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

You'd think with all the processing power available they'd be able to finally slip in a proper parametric eq in place of that horrendous nine-band graphic eq. I'm an Elite receiver fan-boi (all three receivers here are Pio Elite), but that continuous omission has me looking elsewhere for my next purchase.

I don't think they necessarily need parametric EQ, but they DO need third-octave EQ. I think it's absurd that they don't have it. What they do have is nothing more than a high-end tone control. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think this is really EQing their room in a substantial way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I use to be a big Integra fan but after an SC-57 install at a clients I an hooked on the Elites for right now especially when it comes to movie dialog and music.
Can't wait to hear what the new DAC's sound like .

I'm surprised because I've never been happy with the sound of my SC-57, especially for analog and CD sources. It simply has no life to it. As I've posted many times before, my old Apt-Holman preamp and Crown power amp sounded far superior in the same room with the same Left and Right front speakers. For movies, it's okay, but for everything else, it's a better experience listening to my iPhone with Sennheiser headphones (and I am most definitely not a fan of MP3 playback.)
post #73 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I don't think they necessarily need parametric EQ, but they DO need third-octave EQ. I think it's absurd that they don't have it. What they do have is nothing more than a high-end tone control. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think this is really EQing their room in a substantial way.
I'm surprised because I've never been happy with the sound of my SC-57, especially for analog and CD sources. It simply has no life to it. As I've posted many times before, my old Apt-Holman preamp and Crown power amp sounded far superior in the same room with the same Left and Right front speakers. For movies, it's okay, but for everything else, it's a better experience listening to my iPhone with Sennheiser headphones (and I am most definitely not a fan of MP3 playback.)
We pulled a 5008 granted that is a couple of years old and installed a SC-57 same room,source (OPPO BDP-83) and KEF's (205) all around Velo sub HGS-15.
The test CD was Brothers In Arms DDD, Little Feat -Waiting On Columbus ADD and it just did a better job to mine and the clients ears but we each like how different electronics somewhat color the sound which they all do in some way or another are there would not be people stating they like the sound of this over that thank GOD for choices.
post #74 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I don't think they necessarily need parametric EQ, but they DO need third-octave EQ. I think it's absurd that they don't have it. What they do have is nothing more than a high-end tone control. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think this is really EQing their room in a substantial way.

just keep in mind what the Marantz, Denon & Sherwood 972 owners have discovered...

the more "sophisticated" room EQ systems using impulse filters like Audyssey and the consumer grade of Trinnov come at a price:

due to limits on DSP power in consumer AVR & prepros, they have to downsample hi-rez audio formats to 48kHz.

this means all 88.2, 96, 192, 176.4 formats are downgraded to 48kHz/24 bit. even Anthem's receivers with ARC are limited the same way. this means all the upsampling those owners get from AL32 & similar is essentially wasted as soon as Audyssey is turned on - those companies' dirty little secret.

Audyssey says "not our fault" because they maintain the limitation is not in their software, as long as the receiver/prepro mfgs put in sufficient DSP's, which they don't to remain competitive. They maintain it's not their fault that no company wants to pay for the DSP chips it would take. what's remarkable is that the PC based Audyssey Pro software has the same limitation because it's still limited by the DSP's onboard the receiver/prepro. even though a PC is used to calculate the filters, they are still implemented & limited by the DSP's in the receivers. I find this troubling considering Audyssey charges $700+ for the software, per unit license & the improved mic. Even for $700 more, Audyssey's approach won't get you around the limitation. one has to ask, what does? to me, that's being disingenuous, since there is NO Audyssey prepro for any price that has the processing needed. so there is NO real world Audyssey implementation without downsampling. what's also remarkable is that there is not more uproar about this from owners. If Pioneer did something like this, I suspect Pioneer owners would be shouting all over this forum they've been cheated; I've seen posts threatening to sue Pioneer over i-phone app upgrades! rolleyes.gif

Pioneer maintains full sampling rate resolution, because MCACC is a simpler system. I don't know what Yamaha does, but I suspect because it's a parametric EQ, it also maintains the sampling rate. Pioneer enhances their simpler EQ system with the phase control group delay to improve bass & maintain phase integrity plus the 3 notch filters. none of this requires downsampling.

so be careful what you ask for wink.gif

this doesn't mean Pioneer should stay with present MCACC...they absolutely shouldn't!

I'm hopeful Pioneer will come out with a new version in the near future to include sub EQ and improve the EQ part, maybe with parametric or some form of time domain filters. But I would NOT want to do ALL of this at the expense of downsampling SACD's, DVD-A's, 96KHz BD's and hi-rez audio files.

take Trinnov - it's a fantastic room correction, time domain system! but the true full resolution, full processing version cost about $15000 and even that was in an ext box, used a PC & required A-D-A conversions. if you want it built-in, done internally in the digital domain, it'll cost you $40000 from ADA. Dirac is another one, in a $25000 processor.

it's about compromises or what you're willing to pay not to have them wink.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 7/21/13 at 11:11am
post #75 of 381
I would be willing to bet 80% of our forum members did not know that Audyssey down-sampled everything to 48KHz/24bit when engaged there was an article about that in Secrets Of Home-theater for some the benefits of room correction outweighed the fact a lot of their high bit downloads got resampled and may be the reason a lot of high end niche products still don't use room correction.
Nice to know MCACC does not do it.
I get mixed resuts when room correction is applied at different clients homes sometimes improvement sometimes it sounds worse and once or twice we just could not tell the difference I still say RC still has a way to go before its a set and forget it process.
post #76 of 381
People were talking about the downsampling in the audyssey thread years ago. I know on my 705 anything 96khz and above you can't even use audyssey. I remember Chris saying "not enough processing power". Very interesting discussions back then. I assumed the reason why MCACC left everything as is was because it and the receiver was more powerful.

ss9001's explanation makes sense.
post #77 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I would be willing to bet 80% of our forum members did not know that Audyssey down-sampled everything to 48KHz/24bit when engaged there was an article about that in Secrets Of Home-theater for some the benefits of room correction outweighed the fact a lot of their high bit downloads got resampled and may be the reason a lot of high end niche products still don't use room correction.
Nice to know MCACC does not do it.
I get mixed resuts when room correction is applied at different clients homes sometimes improvement sometimes it sounds worse and once or twice we just could not tell the difference I still say RC still has a way to go before its a set and forget it process.
Interesting topic to dig up some previous threads or articles. There was this one user message in response to the Secrets of Home Theater Arc article. After the conclusion he made some comments regarding the Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro mentioned in the article.
Quote:
John Nemetz · Abington Heights High School
This is Audyssey's response to the high res question and let's be clear here. Audyssey is capable of processing sample of well over 48Khz, so it is not an Audyssey limitation rather a limitation by the Marantz. They chose to put their DSP horsepower into other areas that make an audible difference. Thanks
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/239322/
I do see some 96 kHz/24 bit and 192 kHz/24 bit (DTS MA /TrueHD) concert Blu-ray's out there, but not any films. Select audio and filter to that parameter at http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php.

Thats a bit different the this thought that everything gets down sampled to 48 khz/24 bits by Audyssey, rather its up to the vendor and the DSP capacity.
Edited by JohnAV - 7/22/13 at 12:46am
post #78 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

1. I do see some 96 kHz/24 bit and 192 kHz/24 bit (DTS MA /TrueHD) concert Blu-ray's out there, but not any films....2.Thats a bit different the this thought that everything gets down sampled to 48 khz/24 bits by Audyssey, rather its up to the vendor and the DSP capacity.

1. + SACD + DVD-A + DSD files + 96/192 PCM files. it impacts far more than a few concert BD's wink.gif

2. and there is no vendor that has put enough DSP in wink.gif

3. not even the Pro software using a PC helps. Audyssey obviously knows there is no company doing #2 & no other way to implement it using a PC.

it's #3 that makes it hard to accept as a consumer. if those that wanted it could pay extra with the software that'd be a perfectly acceptable approach. but as it stands, no one can have it.
post #79 of 381
I guess I worded it wrong should have said the current crop of DSP chips the mfg's are using is down-sampling and not a fault of Audyssey but a limitation of the chip currently being used ,might be one of the reasons the Datasat pre-pro costs so much rumor has it those chips are very expensive and yes I know it uses Dirac instead of Audyssey.
post #80 of 381
Does anyone know whether the DLNA streaming on this series will be able to handle 6-channel flac audio? My SC-65 could never cut it. I currently use my BD player for streaming, but would love to not have to use yet another component for streaming, especially given the DACs in the SC-75/77/79.

...Something about leaving the TV off if all I am going to do is listen to music and control it from a tablet...
post #81 of 381
I recently bought an SC-65...and subsequently sent it back to the vendor due to DOA on the video output board. They have no replacements, and since I'm getting a refund I'm looking into the SC-75. Is the SC-75 really worth $600 more than the 65? 5W/channel and better slightly better DACs don't really add up for me. Are there any other significant changes between the two that I'm missing? I'm running Oppo 103, DirecTV, some FLAC and streaming as sources, Sharp 60" 1080 display, Tannoy/KEF/Vienna speakers, 15x19x8' room.
post #82 of 381
Scroll to the bottom of the page for comparison, I hope to budget for a 77 sometime this year your needs may vary. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers
post #83 of 381
I for one am VERY disappointed in Pioneer, as they do not stand behind their products after the sale. I have their Elite SC37 receiver and due to problems with sound dropping out when it got warm am in need of a new receiver. I coorsponded with Pioneer, and their response is it is over a year old, tough luck. I would be VERY wary of any company with a dismissive attitude offering a so called Elite product in the future!
post #84 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane-O-Mike View Post

I for one am VERY disappointed in Pioneer, as they do not stand behind their products after the sale. I have their Elite SC37 receiver and due to problems with sound dropping out when it got warm am in need of a new receiver. I coorsponded with Pioneer, and their response is it is over a year old, tough luck. I would be VERY wary of any company with a dismissive attitude offering a so called Elite product in the future!

what month & year did you buy it? where did you buy it (B&M dealer, online, ebay, etc)? if you care to answer these 2 questions, that would be a help.

the SC-37 is a 2010 model, not 100% sure but I think introduced about this time in 2010. Elite warranties have always been 2 yrs from time of purchase, not 1 year. when you bought it makes a big difference. you may or may not be entitled to warranty repair. if not, then while I understand your frustration, if it's out of warranty, why should Pioneer pay to fix it? it it still is under warranty from your purchase date, then you should be able to take it to an authorized shop for warranty repair, providing you bought it from an authorized dealer.

where you bought it makes a big difference. Pioneer is very upfront that they honor warranties on Pioneer Elite purchases from authorized dealers only. they *may* choose to do something if you bought it off ebay, amazon, internet distributor, non-authorized dealer. but they are under no obligations to do so and are perfectly within their rights to turn you down. if you are not the 1st owner, and you bought it used from someone, I honestly don't know what position they take...over the years, I've thought they honored transferable ownership, but I would expect them to still warranty it from time the original owner bought it, not when you bought it from the person; IOW, whatever time is left on the original warranty is what you are entitled to, not start the clock when you happened to get it from the original owner. there are well respected AV companies that do not transfer the warranty at all.

up to you whether you want to post with details & have a discussion or just leave it at a rant. clearly you joined up to make your 1st post a rant so I assume this is a recent problem.

plus, you didn't really describe what you mean by audio dropout. do you mean the amps shutoff in protection mode? that could be just a dead fan in the amp section, a "$10" item to replace. if it's an intermittent dropout on a specific source, especially a cable/sat box using HDMI, it may be something entirely different and not a heat issue. you didn't provide any details for anyone to respond to with any potential troubleshooting help.
Edited by ss9001 - 7/25/13 at 12:08pm
post #85 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane-O-Mike View Post

I for one am VERY disappointed in Pioneer, as they do not stand behind their products after the sale. I have their Elite SC37 receiver and due to problems with sound dropping out when it got warm am in need of a new receiver. I coorsponded with Pioneer, and their response is it is over a year old, tough luck. I would be VERY wary of any company with a dismissive attitude offering a so called Elite product in the future!
Man im very sorry what happen to your receiver,if you decide to get another one,make sure its very ventilated,i have same receiver,but I took the panel off on the back of my tv stand and leave the door open these receiver run very warm.
post #86 of 381
^^
words of wisdom smile.gif

even with Ice amps, it needs cross ventilation (fan flow left > right) and plenty of top clearance. the HDMI & video processor board is at the very top under the lid, and it is this card that gives off much of the heat under load. I leave 10" on top of both my SC-09 and SC-68. and they do get pretty warm wink.gif

I too feel for the poster, wish he'd post back some details. he just might be entitled to warranty repair smile.gif

but if he wonders if the grass is greener, ALL modern HT receivers with HDMI & onboard video processors can pretty warm on top and do need ventilation.
post #87 of 381
I bought it at Best Buy in Summer of 2011, and Best Buy sent it in several times to determine the issue with their "geek squad" warranty. The first time the technician called me to describe the issue again, and could BARELY speak english, that aside, he hung up the phone and I promptly received an email stating my receiver was fixed two seconds later! SO they sent the receiver back to me, and the problem was NOT fixed. I sent the receiver BACK in, and they kept it for about 6 weeks now, and cannot fix the issue. They offered to replace the receiver with current model, which the DC77 is the only receiver close to its specs for THX Ultra2 certification, THEN they said they would give atrial credit to the new receiver. Pioneer in my mind has lost a LOT of credibility in this debacle!
post #88 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane-O-Mike View Post

I bought it at Best Buy in Summer of 2011, and Best Buy sent it in several times to determine the issue with their "geek squad" warranty. The first time the technician called me to describe the issue again, and could BARELY speak english, that aside, he hung up the phone and I promptly received an email stating my receiver was fixed two seconds later! SO they sent the receiver back to me, and the problem was NOT fixed. I sent the receiver BACK in, and they kept it for about 6 weeks now, and cannot fix the issue. They offered to replace the receiver with current model, which the DC77 is the only receiver close to its specs for THX Ultra2 certification, THEN they said they would give atrial credit to the new receiver. Pioneer in my mind has lost a LOT of credibility in this debacle!

hmm, to me it sounds like your beef should be with the crappy way BB supported you with their so called Geek Squad service, not Pioneer. and the swap to a 77 looks fair, considering it's brand new model with new features and still Ultra2 cert'd. plus you'll get 2 more years of warranty!

I'm not sure why the complaint confused.gif

you learned a few valuable lessons. and pissing about Pioneer should not be one of them.

1. BB-Magnolia may not be & probably isn't the best dealer to buy from.

2. never pay extra for a Geek Squad extended warranty or use them for warranty service, because they are probably barely competent at handling more than simple repairs-diagnoses. and don't believe what they say on a phone call wink.gif I dealt with GS once, a long time ago, on a PC issue and wouldn't hit a dog in the butt with their level of expertise. they should have sent it off to a Pioneer authorized service center for a legitimate diagnosis, in which case, you would have had far better chances of getting it repaired correctly the 1st time.

3. at the 1st sign of trouble, you should have called Pioneer & asked them for the name of the closest auth service shop, and dealt with them directly, not BB!

IMHO, all your rant is accomplishing is validating over & over why I never buy any major CE items at BB. I gave up on them a long time ago. my last attempt was to try to buy the last gen Pioneer Elite Kuro plasma & the deal the mgr agreed to kept changing every 10 minutes! tongue.gif I bought a $5000 TV from a good dealer instead. you should do the same if you have alternatives in your area. if BB ever went out of business, they deserve their fate.

unless there's more to the story, I don't think your rant against Pioneer is quite deserved. it wasn't their fault you had a crappy experience with Best Buy.

If I were you, I'd take a one for one gear swap or equivalent store credit & not look back. just my opinion. if they are only giving you partial credit toward a new one, that's a harder pill to take but still an issue with Best Buy, not Pioneer directly. Pioneer honored their warranty as far as I can tell from your post.

let's look at the facts...if you had a Denon instead of a Pioneer, do you think your experience going through Geek Squad would be any different? I hope you have the honesty to say no. and would you hold Denon equally accountable for Best Buy's incompetence?

think about it.
Edited by ss9001 - 7/25/13 at 1:30pm
post #89 of 381
I forgot to describe the audio drop out, it would happen on the receiver after it was on for about an hour, and for no reason would just lose the audio, not the picture, just the audio. It didn't matter the source of DVD, Television, or just music, the audio would just drop to nothing. I replaced the HDMI to my projector thinking it was that, but the problem persisted. I can rule out everything else, as there are different cables to each of the components, and all sources do the same thing. The sound just goes to zero, (not on the dial) just what you hear. or better yet, what you do NOT hear. Pioneer should be doing something about this, as the issue has been reported to them more than once. I bought the receiver in mid August 2011, so it SHOULD have a mnufacturers warranty, but all I got from Pioneer is sorry.
post #90 of 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane-O-Mike View Post

I bought it at Best Buy in Summer of 2011, and Best Buy sent it in several times to determine the issue with their "geek squad" warranty. The first time the technician called me to describe the issue again, and could BARELY speak english, that aside, he hung up the phone and I promptly received an email stating my receiver was fixed two seconds later! SO they sent the receiver back to me, and the problem was NOT fixed. I sent the receiver BACK in, and they kept it for about 6 weeks now, and cannot fix the issue. They offered to replace the receiver with current model, which the DC77 is the only receiver close to its specs for THX Ultra2 certification, THEN they said they would give atrial credit to the new receiver. Pioneer in my mind has lost a LOT of credibility in this debacle!
Mike I hope this receiver goes well with you
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