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Over Heating Issues....Please Help.

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
I have a Marantz SR6006 and for some reason it keeps over heating. It is not in an enclosed cabinet and is very well ventilated. I have the whole system wired with monster XPHP-CI In Wall Cable. I have 6 in ceiling Speakercraft AIM Wide Three's, 2 MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL Hybrid Electrostatic Loudspeaker, 1 MartinLogan Motion 8 Center Channel Speaker, and a MartinLogan DYN500D Dynamo 500 Subwoofer. I had the system professionally installed so I know it was nothing I did wrong during the installation. The problem happens when I put the system loud while playing music, not even very loud +1db will make it overheat and turn off. It is embarrassing when having a party and everyone is dancing and than the system cuts off. If anyone can give me a suggestion on fixing this problem I would greatly appreciate it. Thank's in advance.

P.S. I included a picture so you guys can see it's not enclosed at all.

2013-06-28222113.jpg
2013-06-28222206.jpg
Edited by GISnakeEyes - 6/28/13 at 9:02pm
post #2 of 34
Thread Starter 
I fixed the pictures
post #3 of 34
Martin Logan's are very power hungry speakers. Sounds like you need an amp for them. To put it in perspective for you I have very power efficient klipsch speakers and I've never had to turn it any receiver above -15db to achieve volumes where I even questioned if I needed to listen it to it that loud lol

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post #4 of 34
Thread Starter 
I asked specifically when I bought it, and also to the installer and they said the marantz could handle all my speakers in stride, but maybe i'll look into amp.
post #5 of 34
Yeah the speakercrafts are 91db rated for efficiency and the MLs electrostats I'd be shocked if they were over like 86 o.O they are generally super power hungry in my experience but so worth it if ya drive em right.


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post #6 of 34
Hum 91db actually shocking. But I do know they've been know to drop close to 1ohm so again. Sounds like not enough power. Try disconnecting all the other speakers and just driving them in stereo and see what happens.


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post #7 of 34
Thread Starter 
martin logan's site even has this...
Quote:
Do MartinLogan speakers require big or expensive amplifiers?

Absolutely not. MartinLogan speakers are quite efficient and are capable of providing from 89-91 dB output from only 2.83 volts of input. This makes them suitable for use with a wide range of discrete and integrated amps, receivers, and A/V receivers. Our hybrid designs will perform well with either a tube or transistorized amplifier, and will reveal the sonic character of either type.

Will amplifiers rated at 6 or 8 ohms work with MartinLogan electrostatic speakers?

All MartinLogan speakers are compatible with receivers rated at 4, 6 or 8 ohms. We have tested several mainstream, high quality receivers and have found all are more than capable of driving 4 ohm speakers. The limitations of an amplifier rated at 6 or 8 ohms only becomes obvious at extremely high sound volumes over a very extended time period. For most every other application an amplifier rated at 6 or 8 ohms will perform perfectly with MartinLogan speakers.

and Marantz site has this to say about the SR6006...
Quote:
Specifications
AUDIO SECTION
Power Output (8 Ohm) 110W (20Hz - 20kHz, 0.08% THD, 2ch driven) x7
S/N Ratio 98dB (IHF-A weighted, Source Direct Mode)
Freq. Response (Analog In) 10Hz - 100kHz (+/-3dB, Source Direct Mode)
Freq. Response (Dig In) -
post #8 of 34
Right but ur using 9 speakers at once. In stereo ur receiver will probably do ok. But 9 channels is hard


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post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

Right but ur using 9 speakers at once. In stereo ur receiver will probably do ok. But 9 channels is hard


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This is your problem. You can't drive that many speakers with a standard consumer device that way. Installers that do this kind of thing have little understanding of such concepts so don't rely on what they said. You need a separate distribution amplifier for the in-ceiling speakers.
post #10 of 34
Thread Starter 
so what you're saying is if I turn the other 2 ceiling speakers off (my Zone B speakers) as a test and put the volume up, in theory my Zone A shouldn't turn off, or at the very least last longer before causing my receiver to overheat and turn off?
post #11 of 34
It's a decent place to start


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post #12 of 34
Thread Starter 
so than there is nothing wrong with my receiver, and more than likely I need another power source? If that's the case can you recommend a separate distribution amplifier?
post #13 of 34
If I had to put money on it I would say yes it's underpowered ATM. How flexible is the amp assign ability of the marantz? If plausible I would suggest using an amp for your fronts


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post #14 of 34
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure I never really messed with the amp assign feature. what kind of amp would you use?
post #15 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by GISnakeEyes View Post

I'm not sure I never really messed with the amp assign feature. what kind of amp would you use?
Before you go there, we need to know how your in-ceiling speakers are wired. How many wires come to the amp you have now for them?
post #16 of 34
Thread Starter 
Two each, positive and negative, I thought that's all there is?? They all run to a plate, and than from the plate to the back of the receiver. They all are secured with Sewell Silverback Banana Plugs Dual Screw Lock.
post #17 of 34
The SR6006 is only 7.1, how come it is driving 9 speakers at once?
post #18 of 34
The solution to your problem is very obvious and simple (just as obvious as the problem).

Get a Marantz MM7025 amplifier, connect it to the front channel preouts, and use it to drive your front pair of speakers.

This will make those speakers sound a lot better, and will take a big load off of your receiver so it can drive the other speakers without overloading.

The MM7025 has a bigger power supply than your whole receiver! It will more than DOUBLE your total available system drive capability, and overheating will not happen.

The power supply of your receiver simply does not have the current capability to drive all of those speakers. That's the problem, and that's the solution.

Oh...by the way...the power specs of your receiver are a joke; don't even think about believing them. They are totally bogus (unless you want to connect it to resistors instead of speakers...lol). With 9 speakers connected, it probably overloads at around 30-40 watts per speaker.
Edited by commsysman - 6/29/13 at 6:47am
post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by GISnakeEyes View Post

Two each, positive and negative, I thought that's all there is?? They all run to a plate, and than from the plate to the back of the receiver. They all are secured with Sewell Silverback Banana Plugs Dual Screw Lock.
What I am trying to find out is if any of the ceiling speakers are wired in parallel and hence lowering the impedance that the amp sees. Doing that causes more stress for your AVR and causes its protection circuit to kick in. You said there are 6 such speakers. Do you have 6 set of terminals coming out of the wall for them? If so, what happens next? Where do they connect on your Marantz SR6006?
post #20 of 34
Thread Starter 
Yes each one has their own set of terminals. I know each Ceiling speaker is individually wired cause I watched him cut and wire the whole thing. I can take a picture of the back so you can see how everything is connected.
post #21 of 34
Thread Starter 
Ok let me know if these pictures are suffice or if you need something else.





post #22 of 34
That's useful. I thought originally that all the in-ceiling speakers were for whole house audio and hence hooked up in parallel. From the picture, they are only carrying the surround sound other than a pair that parallels your L&R with speaker terminal B. If you read the manual, you see that if you use both "A" and "B" the speaker impedance must be 8 ohms. Your speakercraft spec says they are 8 ohms but I suspect that value has little meaning. The ML speaker is rated at 4 ohms nominally. So one way or the other, you are taxing the front channels to the point where it is causing the overheat and shut down.

The solution therefore is as some others suggested smile.gif. Get a stereo amp and hook up your pre-out for L&R to it. That should reduce the load substantially and let it be happy again.
post #23 of 34
There is also a cheaper hack. Get a fan and put it under it to blow through the heat sinks. If this problem is only at parties when you are blasting it anyway, the fan noise would not be noticeable. If you want to test the concept, get a large computer fan, and a little power supply to drive it. That may just keep it cool enough from shutting down.
post #24 of 34
Thread Starter 
Do you have any suggestion for the exact computer fan?? I'd just like someone to say get this one, and I'll buy it. Before investing in a 700$ amp. after already sinking about 6 grand into this system.
post #25 of 34
Anything would work. The trick is finding a convenient way to power them since they are made to connect to computer power supply. Here is an idea: get a laptop cooling tray: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=laptop+cooling+fan&rh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3Alaptop+cooling+fan

Then hook them up to any USB charger that has normal USB jack. Alternatively just to test, you can power it with your laptop and see if it works. They should have them locally at electronic stores so you can find one that fits under your amp and if it doesn't, you can return and get a different one. If these work they will be better than a computer fan since no one can stick their finger in there easily which could happen in a party. Measure where the fins/exhaust slots are in your amp and get one that has its fan in that location.
post #26 of 34
This person on ebay sells fan systems for components pre-assembled (no I am not him). I purchased one for my receiver, and it's great. It has an auto on/off sensor switch for temperatures any higher than 80 degrees F.

http://stores.ebay.com/AV-Cabinet-Cooling?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
Edited by bo130 - 6/30/13 at 8:13am
post #27 of 34
Thread Starter 
Ok I just bought a duel fan system from that guy on ebay, hopefully it will work out for me, I'll keep you guys posted.
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by GISnakeEyes View Post

I have a Marantz SR6006 and for some reason it keeps over heating. It is not in an enclosed cabinet and is very well ventilated. I have the whole system wired with monster XPHP-CI In Wall Cable. I have 6 in ceiling Speakercraft AIM Wide Three's, 2 MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL Hybrid Electrostatic Loudspeaker, 1 MartinLogan Motion 8 Center Channel Speaker, and a MartinLogan DYN500D Dynamo 500 Subwoofer.

2013-06-28222113.jpg

I can't find an impedance curve for your exact speakers online, but this appears to be a similar device from the same manufacturer:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/martinlogan-montis-loudspeaker





I would not expect their engineering to vary tremendously.

The reviewer says:

"Either way, that this speaker is a difficult load for the partnering amplifier to drive is compounded by the high electrical phase angle, and ameliorated only by the fact that music rarely has high levels of energy in the top octaves."

Your AVR has preamp outputs that facilitate connection of an extrernal ampliifer, and if the fan doesn't work this would be your next best choice.

While I am an advocate of AVRs this particular speaker is a difficult load for any consumer amplifier, and operation in tandem with 8 other speakers is questionable to say the least.
post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

This person on ebay sells fan systems for components pre-assembled (no I am not him). I purchased one for my receiver, and it's great. It has an auto on/off sensor switch for temperatures any higher than 80 degrees F.

http://stores.ebay.com/AV-Cabinet-Cooling?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
That is a great resource! I knew of purpose built products (we use them at work) but they are pricey. These are reasonable relatively speaking.
post #30 of 34
I tend to agree that running anything in parallel with the ML's is too much a load for the AVR. I also wonder if the AVR is oscillating...
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