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Is this noise normal from a subwoofer? - Page 2

post #31 of 67

The recording input was badly clipped, if you can lower it a bit on the pc. I was able to capture the frequency response and it looks normal, nothing weird. You can ignore the red line, that is the long term average. Green is peak holding.

 

 

 

post #32 of 67
I had the ULS-15 in my home for audition just recently. It began a popping noise on one particular movie about 3 weeks into the audition (of all things, it was Battlestar Galactica). I guess I got their stock answer as well. They said I was setting the gain way too high (less than 3/4 full, or about -4 dB -- if full gain is 0 dB). Since I listen to movies at about the same moderate levels as I do music (70 - 80 dB with peaks in the mid to high 80s, but can reach just above 90 dB on rare occasions per my dB meter) I knew this was BS. I began researching and found several similar complaints of speaker noise and popping. One was at a subwoofer shootout last year. Luckily, I was still in my audition period and boxed it back up and returned it to the Hsu facility (which is only about 12 miles from me). I was sad to see it go, because it was a nice performer until the problems began. Hsu obviously has an issue with this model and needs to address it. Don't know if it's the amp or the limiter, but it's certainly not user abuse.

With Hsu no longer on my list, I decided to audition the Power Sound Audio XS30 and put my order in on July 4th. Hopefully this one will be without problems. The SVS SB13-Ultra I just purchased for my stereo system (I audition the SVS the same time I was auditioning the Hsu) is performing wonderfully, as I expected.
post #33 of 67
Thread Starter 
Ok, I stuffed up my last recording, I used a stereo to mono rca to 3.5mm cable but I only had one cable end plugged into the Oppo, so this time I used a stereo to mono rca plug and plugged both ends of the cable into the Oppo, I also turned the Oppo volume down to 80.



The wav file is here

http://www9.zippyshare.com/v/4638912/file.html

Thanks
post #34 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by guzz46 View Post

Ok, I stuffed up my last recording, I used a stereo to mono rca to 3.5mm cable but I only had one cable end plugged into the Oppo, so this time I used a stereo to mono rca plug and plugged both ends of the cable into the Oppo, I also turned the Oppo volume down to 80.



The wav file is here

http://www9.zippyshare.com/v/4638912/file.html

Thanks

 

That looks a lot better. I guess you can rule out the oppo on boosting any frequencies

 

 

You've tried everything and the problem seems to be the sub.

post #35 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

I had the ULS-15 in my home for audition just recently. It began a popping noise on one particular movie about 3 weeks into the audition (of all things, it was Battlestar Galactica). I guess I got their stock answer as well. They said I was setting the gain way too high (less than 3/4 full, or about -4 dB -- if full gain is 0 dB). Since I listen to movies at about the same moderate levels as I do music (70 - 80 dB with peaks in the mid to high 80s, but can reach just above 90 dB on rare occasions per my dB meter) I knew this was BS. I began researching and found several similar complaints of speaker noise and popping. One was at a subwoofer shootout last year. Luckily, I was still in my audition period and boxed it back up and returned it to the Hsu facility (which is only about 12 miles from me). I was sad to see it go, because it was a nice performer until the problems began. Hsu obviously has an issue with this model and needs to address it. Don't know if it's the amp or the limiter, but it's certainly not user abuse.

With Hsu no longer on my list, I decided to audition the Power Sound Audio XS30 and put my order in on July 4th. Hopefully this one will be without problems. The SVS SB13-Ultra I just purchased for my stereo system (I audition the SVS the same time I was auditioning the Hsu) is performing wonderfully, as I expected.

Well there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the sub output on the Oppo, no huge amounts of ultra low bass, so there must be something wrong with the ULS, it must be something in the electronics as this is a new replacement woofer, it will still make the noise using the wireless connection if the volume either on the sub or on the Oppo sub trim is increased by about 1db.

Unfortunately I'm stuck with mine, but at least it's usable as long as I use the wireless transmitter, unless the problem gets any worse, but it's obviously not ideal, I won't get any resale value when it's not working 100%, HSU seem to have put the blame on the sub output of the Oppo now so I don't think my problem will be getting fixed.
My Paradigm PW2200 lasted for over 7 years without any problems, it was an earthquake that finished it off.
post #36 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

That looks a lot better. I guess you can rule out the oppo on boosting any frequencies




You've tried everything and the problem seems to be the sub.

Maybe I should direct HSU to this thread, as there is nothing wrong with the Oppo, I guess the only possible fix would be a replacement amp, which I would probably have to pay the shipping on.

Thanks for your help.
post #37 of 67
guzz46: I also have Oppo. I have the BDP-95 for my stereo system and the BDP-83 for my TV. The SVS had absolutely no problems on either, nor did my BIC on the BDP-83, so Hsu's excuse sounds lame to me. They have a problem on that model and need to investigate it.
post #38 of 67
Thread Starter 
Well I directed HSU to this thread, and their response was

"Looks to me like the particular movie cuts you played have lots of sub 15 Hz signal. I can see from your video that the cone is trying to pop out of the frame! There are some on one of the tracks on our test CD as well. The ULS boosts the lowest bass quite a bit so it tend to overload when playing tracks with ultra low bass. Adding a subsonic filter will help a lot for these few tracks."

So apparently its not the Oppo's fault, just the fact that the ULS can't handle certain scenes in certain movies with lots of sub 15hz bass?
I'm not sure what to do now, if I should just keep using it with the wireless transmitter, or sell it and buy another sub, or maybe keep it and add another sub, there is a second hand Paradigm Servo 15a for sale locally for $1077 NZ dollars, or $830 US dollars, but I think they're a pretty old sub now, and there is obviously no warranty with it, also its in another city so I can't listen to it, I don't know how it would compare to the ULS-15 either.

I made two more videos, the movie was the same as in the first video, X-men first class, and it was the same scene, the beach scene when magneto stops the missiles, one video is the ULS connected via rca, and the other is the ULS connected via the wireless transmitter, in both connections the sub volume on the Oppo was set to about 78db, and the Oppo's main volume was at 100, on my spl meter the max volume during the scene was the same for both connections, 89db, the videos were recorded at night so the lighting isn't the best.

The rca connection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHExItGHVno

And the wireless connection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDdol4iRo8
post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by guzz46 View Post

Well I directed HSU to this thread, and their response was

"Looks to me like the particular movie cuts you played have lots of sub 15 Hz signal. I can see from your video that the cone is trying to pop out of the frame! There are some on one of the tracks on our test CD as well. The ULS boosts the lowest bass quite a bit so it tend to overload when playing tracks with ultra low bass. Adding a subsonic filter will help a lot for these few tracks."

So apparently its not the Oppo's fault, just the fact that the ULS can't handle certain scenes in certain movies with lots of sub 15hz bass?
I'm not sure what to do now, if I should just keep using it with the wireless transmitter, or sell it and buy another sub, or maybe keep it and add another sub, there is a second hand Paradigm Servo 15a for sale locally for $1077 NZ dollars, or $830 US dollars, but I think they're a pretty old sub now, and there is obviously no warranty with it, also its in another city so I can't listen to it, I don't know how it would compare to the ULS-15 either.

I made two more videos, the movie was the same as in the first video, X-men first class, and it was the same scene, the beach scene when magneto stops the missiles, one video is the ULS connected via rca, and the other is the ULS connected via the wireless transmitter, in both connections the sub volume on the Oppo was set to about 78db, and the Oppo's main volume was at 100, on my spl meter the max volume during the scene was the same for both connections, 89db, the videos were recorded at night so the lighting isn't the best.

The rca connection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHExItGHVno

And the wireless connection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDdol4iRo8

 

The driver doesn't look like its moving much. Can you take a video from the side to see how much its moving? If you want to run another test you could see at what frequency these popping sounds occur. You can use the calibration disc you used earlier. Run the LFE Manual Test Tones, start at 120hz then go down to 10hz, see at which frequency its starts to pop.

post #40 of 67
I wonder if this is an overactive limiter in the amp cutting in too soon.
post #41 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

The driver doesn't look like its moving much. Can you take a video from the side to see how much its moving? If you want to run another test you could see at what frequency these popping sounds occur. You can use the calibration disc you used earlier. Run the LFE Manual Test Tones, start at 120hz then go down to 10hz, see at which frequency its starts to pop.

Ok, the video with the rca connection is here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD4QfztcrJk

And the video with the wireless connection is here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8IKVYDAYTQ

I ran those test tones, I had to really turn the sub up to get any results, but it was below 15hz, I think it was about 13hz or 12hz before it made the noise, it also made the noise on the wireless connection too, but the sub had to be a bit louder, so maybe they are right? maybe i should try one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Harrison-Labs-FMOD-20Hz-Hi-Pass-Subsonic-Filter-Rumble-Reducer-USA-/370638571226?pt=US_Cables_Snakes_Interconnects&hash=item564bc7c6da

Its cheap enough, at the moment even on the wireless connection I have to turn the volume down a bit below the rest of the speakers in order to prevent that noise on certain scenes, I don't to want damage another woofer, but one of those Harrison-Labs subsonic filters being 3db down at 20hz may just do the trick.
post #42 of 67
Putting a 20hz filter on a 1k dollar sub, well you might as well put a handicap sticker on it. The problem is clear...see hsu heavily eq's the uls 15 to provide 15hz extension without relying on room gain, which sounds awsome on paper for a sealed sub. however you found the draw back to doing this..every 3db 15hz frequency is boosted the amp power is effectively cut in half. To properly achieve this a much higher powered amp is needed. I am guessing a speaker power 2400rms would be sufficient.

So what you have discovered is the uls15 does have 15hz extension at very low volume, but at the cost of headroom. Looks like you could use a eq to pull some gain from the 15hz region or use the high pass filter and lose all infrasonic bass. This is a prime example why some companiesdesign thier subs with a slight roll off at 30hz and rely on room gain to get the extension. If the room is large then go ported.... ported subs can be very musical.
post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Putting a 20hz filter on a 1k dollar sub, well you might as well put a handicap sticker on it. The problem is clear...see hsu heavily eq's the uls 15 to provide 15hz extension without relying on room gain, which sounds awsome on paper for a sealed sub. however you found the draw back to doing this..every 3db 15hz frequency is boosted the amp power is effectively cut in half. To properly achieve this a much higher powered amp is needed. I am guessing a speaker power 2400rms would be sufficient.

So what you have discovered is the uls15 does have 15hz extension at very low volume, but at the cost of headroom. Looks like you could use a eq to pull some gain from the 15hz region or use the high pass filter and lose all infrasonic bass. This is a prime example why some companiesdesign thier subs with a slight roll off at 30hz and rely on room gain to get the extension. If the room is large then go ported.... ported subs can be very musical.

I hear what you’re saying and agree.. but I don’t recall this issue with the ULS coming up in the past? (any other owners out there) and it would seem HSU would have implemented a limiter to keep the issue from coming up. Imo we ought to see compression at a certain level but not what the OP is experiencing. One of the best sealed subs I’ve had in the past had a +-2dB at 18 and it was quite substantial considering my leaky room. It was spendy I admit. 15 is definitely pushing it, but still like you say at what output! Could it be the ULS isn’t built beefy enough to handle what they were trying to achieve at a certain price point?? mm

EDIT> and it seems like the limiter ought to be working more effectively like I alluded to earlier.
Edited by steve nn - 7/8/13 at 8:39am
post #44 of 67
I believe the same problem occurred st the subwoofer shootout last year and 2 members in this thread have had the same problem....also if you google search it, you might be suprised with the results you find. smile.gif
post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I believe the same problem occurred st the subwoofer shootout last year and 2 members in this thread have had the same problem....also if you google search it, you might be suprised with the results you find. smile.gif

Yes I did notice that, thanks bass smile.gif I have never goggled it though, haven't been that interested or noticed it here on AVS.



Another thought thinking out loud would be there is a good reason why Tom spent the $$ that he did regarding the Triax to give it a +- 3dB at 15Hz. No skimping in my mind anyway

EDIT> Not to downplay the XS line in no way shape or form. I have no doubt that they're great subs from users reviews and experiences.
Edited by steve nn - 7/8/13 at 9:13am
post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Yes I did notice that, thanks bass smile.gif I have never goggled it though, haven't been that interested or noticed it here on AVS.



Another thought thinking out loud would be there is a good reason why Tom spent the $$ that he did regarding the Triax to give it a +- 3dB at 15Hz. No skimping in my mind anyway

EDIT> Not to downplay the XS line in no way shape or form. I have no doubt that they're great subs from users reviews and experiences.

I think you are spot on...if one wants a sealed sub to play down to +/-3db @ 15hz with substantial output, well its going to take alot more then a single sealed 15" with 350-400watts of continuous power. The XS subs rely on on room gain so there is no eq boost to limit head room. If ones room is large, well its going to take multiple sealed subs or simply going ported to get the extension.
post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I think you are spot on...if one wants a sealed sub to play down to +/-3db @ 15hz with substantial output, well its going to take alot more then a single sealed 15" with 350-400watts of continuous power. The XS subs rely on on room gain so there is no eq boost to limit head room. If ones room is large, well its going to take multiple sealed subs or simply going ported to get the extension.


This I know but have always considered the ULS worth recommending and I always liked it’s +- realizing it came at a cost of course. I had not realized until this thread what some were experiencing though and........ Eh! Guess enough has been said without totally deci...... smile.gif
post #48 of 67
I think you're a prime candidate for DIY. All this shipping cost can be used for amps and higher quality drivers. You can probably get multiple high performance subs for the pice of 1 hsu subs shipped to nz.
post #49 of 67
Thread Starter 
Well I brought a pair of those 20hz filters, its much cheaper than buying a new sub, I might as well see what they're like, they will take about ten days to arrive, I wish I knew this before hand, its probably what killed the first woofer.
post #50 of 67
Thread Starter 
Those filters turned up a couple of days ago and they do their job well, but even with one of them installed I still have to have the ULF trim turned up to 50hz to prevent the noise from occurring in certain scenes, running some test tones with my spl meter a few feet from the sub gives these results:

80hz = 84db
75hz = 86db
70hz = 85db
65hz = 84db
60hz = 86db
55hz = 89db
50hz = 89db
45hz = 88db
40hz = 84db
35hz = 78db
30hz = 77db
25hz = 80db
20hz = 72db

There is a big drop at 20hz, obviously, there was no point in going any lower because it almost didn't register on the spl meter, and you no longer feel the bass in movies anymore, so effectively it's not a true subwoofer anymore, I thought maybe it's the size of my room, it's only about 1500 cubic feet, but on HSU's website it says "You cannot have too much subwoofer.... We have customers who find four VTF-15H in a 1,000 cu.ft. room is not enough.... Hence we suggest going with the biggest subwoofer that your budget, spouse and space allows.... The larger subwoofer would sound more effortless and 'airy' due to lower distortion and higher headroom. All else equal, the bigger sub will also be more reliable as it has to work less hard for the same listening level."

Also my old PW2200 in an almost identical size and shape room had no such issues, and even when I set the sub and speakers to 75db with the 20hz filter installed I still can't turn the ULF trim to halfway before it starts making the noise, so my question is why design a true subwoofer that can't handle subsonic frequencies at 75db? I'm very disappointed with this sub, I'm thinking about buying a different sub, I've just discovered a dealer in NZ is becoming a SVS dealer and he has a SVS SB13-Ultra for $2100 available in about a months time, which is less than what I paid for the ULS-15 with shipping.

Does anyone know how the SB13-Ultra would compare to the ULS-15? it's in a different city so I would have to buy it without listening to it, I'm guessing it would be able to handle movies at 75db like any decent sub should, the only other thing is I don't know if I could sell the ULS-15 to someone knowing it has this limitation.

Cheers
post #51 of 67
Thread Starter 
I think I've found a work around, using two 20hz filters and setting the ULF all the way down to 16hz I'm able to play the same scene without the noise occurring and without losing the bass impact I did before, although I had to bump up the sub volume a bit, it's now a few db hotter than the rest of my speakers, and it still doesn't make the noise, great!!
I've dropped the crossover down to 60hz because it can be a little bit too much when set to 80hz on certain scenes in certain movies, I'm still going to fine tune things a bit more when I get some free time, but at least things are looking up.

On my original youtube video someone mentioned that his ULS makes the same noise, so maybe HSU should be selling a pair of these 20hz filters with each ULS if they quote "overload when playing tracks with ultra low bass"
post #52 of 67
Quote:
Does anyone know how the SB13-Ultra would compare to the ULS-15? it's in a different city so I would have to buy it without listening to it, I'm guessing it would be able to handle movies at 75db like any decent sub should, the only other thing is I don't know if I could sell the ULS-15 to someone knowing it has this limitation.

I wouldn't worry about the SB-Ultra exhibiting what your going through.. it has a hard limiter, SVS is known for that. Don’t see what size room you're in but maybe a vented Ultra option is available from the same dealer, or is it sealed that you want?.. not that the SB would not serve you well.
post #53 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by guzz46 View Post

Does anyone know how the SB13-Ultra would compare to the ULS-15? it's in a different city so I would have to buy it without listening to it, I'm guessing it would be able to handle movies at 75db like any decent sub should, the only other thing is I don't know if I could sell the ULS-15 to someone knowing it has this limitation.

Cheers

Glad to see you're working out the ULS-15 problems. I auditioned the ULS-15 and the SVS SB13-Ultra at the same time. However, I was looking for a subwoofer for my stereo system and not for movie LFE … at first. Once I heard the Ultra's capabilities for LFE content, I was quite impressed and thought I wouldn't mind having a capable sub for movies. However, it's music where the Ultra really shines and outperforms the ULS-15 quite easily. I explained this in detail on my Amazon review of the Ultra. Trying to gauge the two in movie sound reproduction was far more difficult. I felt they were both impressive.

I was going to end up keeping the Hsu for movie LFE, not because it performed better, but because the Hsu was considerably cheaper for about the same level of LFE performance. Then the noise problems occurred, so back the Hsu went and I'm now waiting for the XS30 to ship (hopefully sometime late next week).

I have no problems whatsoever with the Ultra. It impresses me more each time I put on a different music CD (or DVD-A, or SACD, or …). I run the subwoofer's gain at -6 dB for music and -1 or -2 dB for movies (when I was testing it for movies). Perhaps the difference is their limiter … digital vs analog?
post #54 of 67
Quote:
However, it's music where the Ultra really shines and outperforms the ULS-15 quite easily. I explained this in detail on my Amazon review of the Ultra.

If you happen to stop by again do you have a link to the review you speak of? Thanks
Quote:
it has a hard limiter

I put that wrong looking back. It has a more aggressive limiter down low and utilizes room gain. +- Q’d differently.
post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

If you happen to stop by again do you have a link to the review you speak of? Thanks
I put that wrong looking back. It has a more aggressive limiter down low and utilizes room gain. +- Q’d differently.

Hi Steve. I'd be happy to give you the link. Here is my Amazon review:

http://www.amazon.com/SVS-SB13-Ultra-Piano-Gloss/dp/B009TOSKS2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373831773&sr=8-1&keywords=svs+sb13-ultra+subwoofer

I also wrote a different review on the SVS website because it's a complete different audience (it's the second review from the top):

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/sb13-ultra
post #56 of 67
Thanks dsr smile.gif
post #57 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I wouldn't worry about the SB-Ultra exhibiting what your going through.. it has a hard limiter, SVS is known for that. Don’t see what size room you're in but maybe a vented Ultra option is available from the same dealer, or is it sealed that you want?.. not that the SB would not serve you well.

My room is basically a rectangle with no openings, its about 1500 cubic feet, the dealer has all SVS subs I think, its just that a ported sub would be too large unless I went for a cylinder sub, but I heard that sealed was better for music so sealed would be my preference, but I think the ULS should suffice now with the two 20hz filters installed, it shouldn't need them though, I still don't know why HSU would design a sub that overloads when playing tracks with ultra low bass when a lot of movies these days have plenty of ultra low bass in them, it already killed my first woofer, but I already have the sub now so I'll make do with the work around, unless the woofer dies again (which it shouldn't now) and if it does then I'll probably buy a SVS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Glad to see you're working out the ULS-15 problems. I auditioned the ULS-15 and the SVS SB13-Ultra at the same time. However, I was looking for a subwoofer for my stereo system and not for movie LFE … at first. Once I heard the Ultra's capabilities for LFE content, I was quite impressed and thought I wouldn't mind having a capable sub for movies. However, it's music where the Ultra really shines and outperforms the ULS-15 quite easily. I explained this in detail on my Amazon review of the Ultra. Trying to gauge the two in movie sound reproduction was far more difficult. I felt they were both impressive.

I was going to end up keeping the Hsu for movie LFE, not because it performed better, but because the Hsu was considerably cheaper for about the same level of LFE performance. Then the noise problems occurred, so back the Hsu went and I'm now waiting for the XS30 to ship (hopefully sometime late next week).

I have no problems whatsoever with the Ultra. It impresses me more each time I put on a different music CD (or DVD-A, or SACD, or …). I run the subwoofer's gain at -6 dB for music and -1 or -2 dB for movies (when I was testing it for movies). Perhaps the difference is their limiter … digital vs analog?

I read that review the other day, well most of it anyway, it was a pretty long review, but a good one, thanks.
post #58 of 67
Thread Starter 
Ok so after watching a few movies I've decided it's not good enough, I watched cloverfield and the incredible hulk and there wasn't much bass at all, and that's after moving the sub to the corner of the room as well, with no 20hz filter installed and the sub set about 2db to 3db higher than the rest of my speakers it's great, but that's not possible because it overloads big time on certain scenes in certain movies, so I've decided to sell it and buy a svs, I'm just not sure which one to get, my room is about 1500 cubic feet, 10.8 feet wide, by 18.3 foot long, by 7.2 foot high, its a rectangle in shape with no openings, and I listen to movies at about 75db - 76db, my speakers are Jamo C809's and I've decided to go ported, I don't listen to much multichannel music anymore so this sub will be mainly for movies, I don't have enough space for the ported box subs, so cylinder it is.

I emailed svs with this info and they recommended the PC12-NSD, however I've always thought when in doubt go bigger, I'm thinking of either the PC12-PLUS or the PC13-ULTRA, I asked svs about the PC13 and they said if I was to go bigger they would recommend the PC12-Plus as my Jamos will be overpowered by the PC13 at loud levels which wouldn't sound very good to me, I'm not sure what they mean by that as isn't that what you want a sub to do when watching movies? they said I would probably need to tune the sub down to 16Hz or even sealed mode because of the room size, or I could try it wide open at 20Hz with all ports open and see how I like it, but I didn't tell them I live in NZ so there is no 45 day audition available to me.

What do you guys think? would the PC13 be too much in my room? or would the PC12-PLUS be adequate? the svs dealer in NZ has the PC13-ULTRA for $2200 NZ dollars and the PC12-PLUS for $1600 NZ dollars.

Thanks
post #59 of 67
you can never have too much sub....that being said get the pc-13 and dont look back.
post #60 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

you can never have too much sub....that being said get the pc-13 and dont look back.

That's what I always thought, which is why I brought the ULS-15, but I'm guessing my room just has too much gain for it to handle or something? but I doubt the PC13 would run into the same problems as the ULS-15, I'm leaning heavily towards the PC13 already, I emailed the local svs dealer the same question and this was his answer:

"The Ultra series of drivers from SVS are a league ahead really, if you had the budget for any of the ultra series SVS subs I would make that my first choice.
Your room will be fine perhaps with the PC12-Plus though, the output from SVS subwoofers is phenomenal, so the choice really is between having a great sub (PC12-Plus) or possibly the greatest cylindrical sub on the market (PC13-Ultra)"

I can afford the PC13 no problems, so I might buy it instead of getting the PC12-PLUS and wondering what the PC13 would of been like.
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