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COMPLETELY overwhelmed...

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Basics:

Building a home presently, the builder has been VERY easy going about me gaining access to do little 'upgrades' around the house. I took that opportunity and added extra studs for towel bars, mount for TV in our bedroom and laid in conduit for HDMI cable, CAT5e and CAT6 as well as flexible conduit in the basement where our family room will be that will have our projector. I have one window that will have a blackout roll down screen, plantation blinds and curtains to cut down as much ambient light as possible. I will also be painting the ceiling a chocolate color to absorb light a well as make an 'accent' wall that runs along the side with a deeper color. I have decided upon the W1080ST as the projector so the kids can enjooy the dancing games and such on the PS3 Move, Wii and 360 without casting any shadows. Floor to ceiling is 8', width of carpeted 'family room' is 11' and the back of the 10'W by 14'L sectional will be at the 24' mark (so basically seating will be at 23'). I really think (and would like) a 135' screen but with my quest to hide as much as possible I will be using in wall front speakers. From what I can tell grey is the way to go for ambient light and with such a bright projector as the W1080ST, but I would presume an AT screen would be wiser with my speakers being hidden by the screen, does such a product exist? It seems that if you want one you can't get the other from my readings and research. I had the electrician drop another plug at the 7' mark from the screen wall so that I would have everything ready for the BenQ when it arrives and we move in, my two boxes are here as well for the HDMI and CAT. According to the BenQ site my mount would be at 6' 9" yet Projector Central shows it to be at 7' 5" not a huge tragedy either way since my plug placement was for what the future may hold for short throw projectors. Any others have this type setup that can either confirm or deny this mount location for screen size?

Here's the conduit and area that I figured the screen would mount that I wanted to ensure had a solid mounting. The flexible four that go up and out reach to all the speaker locations for the remaining four of the 7.x setup I will have, the front three are obvious:



The roll on the floor represents the couch location:
post #2 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantamancave View Post

I really think (and would like) a 135' screen but with my quest to hide as much as possible I will be using in wall front speakers. From what I can tell grey is the way to go for ambient light and with such a bright projector as the W1080ST, but I would presume an AT screen would be wiser with my speakers being hidden by the screen, does such a product exist?

You can find various screen materials that are grey with a variety of gain factors. What matters more it the gain factor which is determined by your lighting conditions. Projectors with good native contrast do not need the help of a high contrast screen (which is usually grey). There are a lot of different acoustically transparent screen materials, so you should determine the required gain first to narrow the selection down a little.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
So who makes the AT in grey? Sound loss would be too great in regular screen material I'm sure...right? Gain of .8 is what others in my similar situation seem to be having good results with although some even mention going 1.0.
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantamancave View Post

So who makes the AT in grey? Sound loss would be too great in regular screen material I'm sure...right? Gain of .8 is what others in my similar situation seem to be having good results with although some even mention going 1.0.

I have never seen audio measurements when using speakers behind a regular screen. Even if the sound could be equalized somehow, I imagine the sound pressure would move the screen back and forth messing with the focus. I would stay away from that.

I recently received some samples from Da-Lite and Elite Screens. I shared close-up photos here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475648/best-at-screen-for-my-application#post_23398839

I would say three out of the five samples fall into the "white" category with the high contrast versions falling into the "grey".

Further down in that thread you can also see some comparisons of the samples in identical conditions.

You would definitely not notice perforations at a viewing distance of 23', but as you are approaching the 15' mark they would become noticeable.
post #5 of 24
Many sit at 9' and don't see perforations in Seymourav's XD material. Ten foot could be considered pretty safe.

You don't want subs or their ports facing a screen, or the screen can (and will) move or ripple.

You do want your speakers to be 6" off the back side of the AT fabric, or they will timbre shift. The effect is gone at 6".

Why is your seating so far from the screen?
post #6 of 24
Why run both CAT5e and CAT6? Just use CAT6 if you're installing new wiring.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
The simple answer for seating depth is for play/movement in the room. It was suggested to me to both 5 and 6, if six covers both it doesn't bother me a bit to only pull one type. Seymour is incredibly expensive and I don't want that to kill this process in the mind of my wife. DIY spandex is possible I suppose but I would really need someone to hold my hand with the selection process and then maybe revisit the Seymour in the future once its part of our life.
post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 
I could potentially do two rows of recliners that attach together to form a couch as well. Kind of cool and would be awesome to see four across and risers...
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantamancave View Post

Seymour is incredibly expensive and I don't want that to kill this process in the mind of my wife. DIY spandex is possible I suppose but I would really need someone to hold my hand with the selection process and then maybe revisit the Seymour in the future once its part of our life.

A 16:9 screen approaching your size specification, assuming you meant 135 inches and not feet, would need to be 133" diagonal.

The Da-Lite Perm-Wall with Audio Vision High Contrast is $839.50 at B&H.

The Da-Lite Perm-Wall with Cinema Perf High Contrast is $912.95 at B&H.

Have a look at the thread I referenced above for an idea of what the material looks like.

Are these in your budget range?
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
They are so close to the better brands I may just bite the bullet and not have to worry it until further into the future. Might as well go 4K since that will also be the way of the future, although the technology will come up on screens this is, after all a family room projector setup.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantamancave View Post

They are so close to the better brands I may just bite the bullet and not have to worry it until further into the future. Might as well go 4K since that will also be the way of the future, although the technology will come up on screens this is, after all a family room projector setup.

I have owned two Da-Lite screens so far and I am happy with their products. I am honestly not sure whether there would be much of a difference going with a higher-priced brand. Da-Lite knows what they are doing, even Joe Kane Productions co-brands a product line with them. In my recent comparison of screen materials one of the best pictures came from a surface that was painted with ordinary white latex paint. With a high-performance projector the contrast enhancement from the screen is less important.

I am probably going to switch to the 4K material from Elite Screens due to my short viewing distance. It is also priced in the same ballpark, so you can check that out as well.

Of course you could just do what I did and order samples from various manufacturers to see whether you, in your own room with your own equipment, can ascertain a difference.
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
See I was looking at that 4K Elite but in the pricing page it shows 1080p2 not the 4K. Also, their distance calculator vs BenQ shows about a 6" difference to the rear, odd to say the least.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Off the path of screens, low profile mount preferences? I had my eye on a mustang but I'm a Chevy snob I just don't know if I can bring myself to do such a thing hahahaha.
post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Your comparison thread was very informative but I was concerned about the screen door effect as the kids play fast moving games and we enjoy action movies.
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantamancave View Post

See I was looking at that 4K Elite but in the pricing page it shows 1080p2 not the 4K.

Elite Screens AcousticPro-4K material is far superior to their older 1080P2 stuff. I would stay away from the latter completely. Unfortunately the new stuff seems to be considered special order, which makes it harder to find pricing, but I have gotten a competitive quote from an online retailer here in Canada.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantamancave View Post

Also, their distance calculator vs BenQ shows about a 6" difference to the rear, odd to say the least.

Strange, safest thing to do would be to stay within parameters for both. You can also make sure that your ceiling mount location stays somewhat flexible (e.g. long piece of plywood between joists).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantamancave View Post

Your comparison thread was very informative but I was concerned about the screen door effect as the kids play fast moving games and we enjoy action movies.

The Da-Lite materials are best at 15' or more. Not sure how close your kids would get during gaming. You might want to order an Elite Screens sample (at no charge). Mine arrived in a few days.
post #16 of 24
You should do some research on Seymourav XD material and DIY AT screens. This route is very affordable. At least get a fabric quote
so you can make an informed comparison.

Why not a moveable seating solution for the front row/ play area? Having the seating so far away from the front speakers, is going to
seriously impact on the audio for action movies.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Kids would be around 7-8' away as that is max distance for Wii and Kinect.

Would have no issue making my own screen, just would need a LOT of direction and help to make it all look good and fit properly.
post #18 of 24
A good DIY starter primer for a DIY screen is at www.seymourav.com under the pull down screens tab, and then clock on DIY.
The two pdfs are worth saving and reading through.

You also might want to check out BigMouthinDc's retrofit with his twin goalpost mounting:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/683853/big-mouth-in-dcs-beautiful-black-grey-theater/1140

About post 1144 on page 38, the explaining starts.....
post #19 of 24
BTW, won't the kids be throwing shadows on the screen being between the projector and the screen? I'd think you'd need a very short throw projector, to
prevent that.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

BTW, won't the kids be throwing shadows on the screen being between the projector and the screen? I'd think you'd need a very short throw projector, to
prevent that.

The BenQ W1080ST is a short-throw projector. For a 135" it would need to be 6'9" away from the screen. With a ceiling mount the kids can probably get a little closer without interfering with the light. Not sure how the OP feels about that.
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
7' was what I was intending for them to play in and around. I shall read, download and learn some more thank you.
post #22 of 24
With the use of a decent, proper mount (Chief RPA PJ Specific) at the proper throw distance, the Kids can easily stand within 4'-5' of the screen.

Be advised that the Throw distance you want / need is based upon the distance between the face of the Lens and the screen surface....not the center point of the mount / projector. Also, the W1080ST has a small degree of Image Offset (2" off Len's center) so to create a Screen height of 88" off the floor with the bottom of the screen being 22" off the floor. (..at 135" diagonal and a 66" screen height...) the distance between the Ceiling and the "Center" of the Lens will need to be 6". You do not want to be any closer...the PJ needs breathing space, and you want to avoid the need for using Keystone adjustment. Also, a mount like the Chief RPA is going to help you acheive a rock-steady mounting solution that is going to be ideally suited for the Low profile needs you have.

NO mount such as the Mustang or a Video Secure, or ANY such inexpensive, single mount point affair is going to be workable, let alone acceptable.

You absolutely need to move the electrical / video stubs back to 8' to allow room for the Mount's installation, the cables to be located at the rear of the PJ, and the Lens to wind up at between 7' and 7.5'

And very bluntly put, the w1080st ain't really all that bright...and at 135" diagonal, everything needs to be exactly balanced and as optimally set up as possible.

Two things, you do need to strongly consider Light Silver Milliskin Spandex over White Milliskin, as it has been measured to be excellent AT material, but you should also carry that discussion over to DIY Screens where experience in such matters is both more extensive as well as that forum being a more appropriate venue for such discussions..
post #23 of 24
Any timbre shifting issues with the Spandex to consider? I have zero experience with spandex but most AT fabrics cause a speaker to timbre shift if the
speaker is within 6" of the AT fabric. That effect is gone at 6".
post #24 of 24
It truth, Spandex's performance is exemplary all the way up to 1/2" away, and to date not distortion due to SPl and actual Air displacement has been reported.

It's almost impossible to find anything detrimental about the stuff.


  • Ultra smooth, Morie-free surface Definitely 4K ready
  • Ultra lightweight, and stretches easily and without excessive "pull" needed.
  • Ultra inexpensive, comparatively speaking, to any commercially available AT fabric...and crazy less than any pre-Mfg AT screen.

About the only thing to consider is gain, as the porosity of Spandex does let an appreciable amount of light bleed through. That is why using a double layer is advised.
Which...BTW...all measurements taken involved using a "Dual" layer of Milliskin Spandex....so by it's having two layers and still out performing other far more expensive AT offerings pretty much validates it's worthiness.

But...as suggested before, come over to the DIY Screens Section for all the skinny. I'm encroaching on forbidden territory here.
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