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Samsung 4K Anticipation Thread. UN55F9000, UN65F9000, and UN85S9 Discusion - Page 6

post #151 of 772
Maybe I was seeing through placebo eyes bekindrewind! haha

it certainly seems this tech would be fully taken advantage of with a set over 80".
post #152 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMundt View Post

From what I've seen, this TV will definitely be able to accept HDMI 2.0 with a new OneConnect box. Currently, Evolution Kits can be purchased for about $100, and it's reasonable to expect the OneConnect boxes to be pretty similar in price. Is $100 (or a little more) really worth the price of not buying now? For me, no. That's personal preference though.
Technology improves-- that's a simple fact of the business. So if you wait 5 years, you'll absolutely get a better product. And if you wait another five years after that? You'll get a better product still. Everyone needs to make a decision to jump in at some point. That decision is based on each individual's acceptance of the technology tradeoffs.

I definitely wouldn't delay a purchase now because of the promise of something better. Every new technology has basic shortcomings. OLED, for example, still struggles with uneven blue wear and vertical banding. With FALD, you can get haloing. With LED edge-lit, you get uneven backlighting and backlight bleed/spotlighting. With projectors you need to change bulbs and have a dedicated environment. See where I'm going with this?

In 20 years, there may be a display that eliminates all current shortcomings, but nothing's perfect. Right now, I'd say holding off because of price is more reasonable than holding off because of technology.
The early adopter's are getting rip off,you just name some of the reasons,and two Sony has been getting bad reviews on there Media server,even at work,well its your money you can do whatever you want with it.
post #153 of 772
I feel that your a little bit right by saying the early adaptors are getting ripped off. I honestly feel for the price of these sets and the tech that is behind them, that there should be a noticable difference even in the upscaling. The more I watch my f9000 the more I miss the larger 75" screen. Perhaps if I had 20000 I would get the 84" and notice a difference and be happy but with the 65" I feel like I am missing something. I also dont like the connect box. Its extra wires and another box to find a place for. And I will have to upgrade that in a year when 2.0 is finalized. Ugghhh wish I could say you are totally wrong and early adaptors are getting their moneys worth but I really feel we arent. Just my opinion.
post #154 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

The early adopter's are getting rip off,you just name some of the reasons,and two Sony has been getting bad reviews on there Media server,even at work,well its your money you can do whatever you want with it.

You do know that I was the one that criticized the quality of the Sony FMP-X1, right? I'm not sure why you're mentioning that...

"Ripped off" is very harsh. Name a bleeding-edge technology that doesn't demand a premium. Blu-Ray discs were upwards of $40 when I started buying them, and players were $500. 3D TVs were $1000 more than non-3D TVs. 1080p projectors were thousands more than 720p projectors. The list goes on and on.

Were the people that purchased these "ripped off?" Absolutely not. That's absurd. They knew very well they were paying a premium, and they were fine with that. Ripped off implies that they didn't get what they paid for. How do you think they're able to bring prices down? Hint, hint, it's because of the early adopters.

If you don't want one of the current crops of 4K TVs, don't buy one. I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to dissuade people from buying them though. I've had extensive experience with my VW1000ES for the last year-and-a-half and with the Sony 4K TVs. The fact is, there is a difference between these sets and 1080p sets. If that difference is enough to make someone pay a premium, that's their decision.
post #155 of 772
Ok maybe ripped off is a little harsh but I have a f9000 in front of me now and think for the 8000 after tax I should be getting more. I starting to believe until the masses convert to 4k such as cable or satellite providers ut isnt worth the preium I paid as an early adaptor. I have veiwed several videos in 4k in the last day and I really am not as stunned as I think I should be over a 1080 set. The 75"f8000 immersed me and made me say WOW. The 65" f9000 made me feel I was missing something. Just my opinion
post #156 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

Ok maybe ripped off is a little harsh but I have a f9000 in front of me now and think for the 8000 after tax I should be getting more. I starting to believe until the masses convert to 4k such as cable or satellite providers ut isnt worth the preium I paid as an early adaptor. I have veiwed several videos in 4k in the last day and I really am not as stunned as I think I should be over a 1080 set. The 75"f8000 immersed me and made me say WOW. The 65" f9000 made me feel I was missing something. Just my opinion

And truthfully, that's a very reasonable way to feel. Especially with the premium price.

I think 4K really starts coming into its own when the screen is large. The larger the screen, the more dramatic the effect. Right now, the benefits compared to the premium are difficult to justify, especially when you're getting a smaller TV for the money.

One of the hardest things to do in home theater is downsize!
post #157 of 772
This is very true it is extremely hard to downsize especially without a noticable difference!
post #158 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

You know that's BS you know they make TV's better each year and the prices going to go down.

Your argument is pointless. As other's have pointed out, the cycle never ends. Even if you are looking at a 40" LED, the prices are going to come down next year. I understand you personally can't afford an F9000, neither can I. That doesn't mean that someone that has the money is getting ripped off. They make the decision to buy the TV, not you. They know it will be cheaper next year, and they don't care. If they did, they'd buy another TV.

I really can't believe you sell TV's for a living. What do you tell someone who wants to buy an OLED and a $5000 home theater system? Wait a year? Save some money and buy it after all your buddies already have it? If you're not going to enjoy the money you have, why bother making it in the first place?
post #159 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

This is very true it is extremely hard to downsize especially without a noticable difference!

I really don't think you'd feel that way had you not recently upgraded to a 75" and then downgraded in size immediately afterwards. Now all you can do is think about the size difference. It is the size/quality/price triangle. Pick two. Nothing wrong with picking the 75", if you value the immersion it provides. I don't think that makes the 4K a poor value overall. It's just a poor value for you, given your priorities.
post #160 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

I feel that your a little bit right by saying the early adaptors are getting ripped off. I honestly feel for the price of these sets and the tech that is behind them, that there should be a noticable difference even in the upscaling. The more I watch my f9000 the more I miss the larger 75" screen. Perhaps if I had 20000 I would get the 84" and notice a difference and be happy but with the 65" I feel like I am missing something. I also dont like the connect box. Its extra wires and another box to find a place for. And I will have to upgrade that in a year when 2.0 is finalized. Ugghhh wish I could say you are totally wrong and early adaptors are getting their moneys worth but I really feel we arent. Just my opinion.

HDMI 2.0 will be finalized within 2 months.
post #161 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

I really don't think you'd feel that way had you not recently upgraded to a 75" and then downgraded in size immediately afterwards. Now all you can do is think about the size difference. It is the size/quality/price triangle. Pick two. Nothing wrong with picking the 75", if you value the immersion it provides. I don't think that makes the 4K a poor value overall. It's just a poor value for you, given your priorities.

I think this is an excellent point!!! If I had not gone to a 75" from my 65" I probly would be absolutly tickled with the 9000...But having a larger screen in front of me for some time now the 65 just looks small. I am not trying to bash the 4k f9000 as I do see a difference in some areas but as you put it the immersion has got me missing the 75 frown.gif

I also must say the connect box is a pain as I now have another box to hide or store in another spot. Its actually a downside in my eyes for samsung. I am willing to bet the later models of the 4k tvs do not have a connect box but a full erray of plug ins on the back. Its almost as samsung added this as a last moment switch when figuring out if they should offer 4k in this years models or not.

And so in 2 months I will have to pay another 3-500 for an uprage I already spent 8000 on the set for.....errrr another reason to maybe get the 8000 back and wait a couple years and get a 80" uhd set for around 8000, im not saying 4k or UHD isnt nice or but is it worth my 8000 now for a 65" set that I need to upgrade in 2 months.....hmmm not sure.
Edited by MERKEY99 - 8/15/13 at 7:43pm
post #162 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

I think this is an excellent point!!! If I had not gone to a 75" from my 65" I probly would be absolutly tickled with the 9000...But having a larger screen in front of me for some time now the 65 just looks small. I am not trying to bash the 4k f9000 as I do see a difference in some areas but as you put it the immersion has got me missing the 75 frown.gif

I also must say the connect box is a pain as I now have another box to hide or store in another spot. Its actually a downside in my eyes for samsung. I am willing to bet the later modles of the 4k tvs do not have a connect box but a full erray of plug ins on the back. Its almost as samsung added this as a last moment switch when figuring out if they should offer 4k in this years models or not.

And so in 2 months I will have to pay another 3-500 for an uprage I already spent 8000 on the set for.....errrr another reason to maybe get the 8000 back and wait a couple years and get a 80" uhd set for around 8000, im not saying 4k or UHD isnt nice or but is it worth my 8000 now for a 65" set that I need to upgrade in 2 months.....hmmm not sure.

4K was always a plan for this year. It was hastened slightly by the release of the Sony models though. I think they simply chose to use the One Connect box since the HDMI chips would have to be replaced in order to make the set compliant with HDMI 2.0. Rather than have an Evolution kit AND a replaceable HDMI board, why not combine the two? Personally there is nothing I loathe more on a TV than a separate input box connected via a proprietary cable.

Also, from what I understand, Samsung will likely offer current owners a significant savings on the One Connect replacement box. They may even swap out your old box for free. Though, even if they don't, it will not be $300-$500.
post #163 of 772
So I guess it comes down to immersion of a 75" set over what little quality upgrade I can see now for a 65" set....none the less it is a tough choice!
post #164 of 772
Im sitting here watching a 4k set and I don't see much more reality....just saying and I did spend the 8000 to see it and Im still not 100 % converted, if I was I wouldn't be thinking of getting my 75f8000 back. Don't get me wrong I think 4k has a place and that place is in a set around 85". I am a hard working fellow actually a Executive Chef at a small restaurant and I save to get what I want and After spending 8000 on a tv I want to be the first to say THIS IS THE WAY TO GO!!! But to my dismay this is not how I feel at the moment.
post #165 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

Im sitting here watching a 4k set and I don't see much more reality....just saying and I did spend the 8000 to see it and Im still not 100 % converted, if I was I wouldn't be thinking of getting my 75f8000 back. Don't get me wrong I think 4k has a place and that place is in a set around 85". I am a hard working fellow actually a Executive Chef at a small restaurant and I save to get what I want and After spending 8000 on a tv I want to be the first to say THIS IS THE WAY TO GO!!! But to my dismay this is not how I feel at the moment.

Do keep in mind that not having actual 4K content is limiting you from seeing what your set is truly capable of. Sure, you may have a few short 4K videos, but wait until you can see movies in 4K. I don't think you can adequately judge its' capabilities until then.
post #166 of 772
And this is the ultimate shortcoming of being an early adaptor. Wait until actual content becomes available to enjoy the set...It is a very tough choice. I think true content is still at least a few years away. So do I stick with the shortcomings of 4k now to in a year or so be able to take advantage of what my set can do or do I get back into the 75" set which immersed me in its huge size....ahhhh
post #167 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

And this is the ultimate shortcoming of being an early adaptor. Wait until actual content becomes available to enjoy the set...It is a very tough choice. I think true content is still at least a few years away. So do I stick with the shortcomings of 4k now to in a year or so be able to take advantage of what my set can do or do I get back into the 75" set which immersed me in its huge size....ahhhh

Have you had a chance to test out gaming on this thing yet? The review stated a 66ms input lag, which is disappointing. I know that previous Samsung models had an unadvertised trick-- if you manually labeled the input "PC," it would decrease processing time, and I'm very curious to see if that's still the case.
Edited by BrianMundt - 8/15/13 at 11:48pm
post #168 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

And this is the ultimate shortcoming of being an early adaptor. Wait until actual content becomes available to enjoy the set...It is a very tough choice. I think true content is still at least a few years away. So do I stick with the shortcomings of 4k now to in a year or so be able to take advantage of what my set can do or do I get back into the 75" set which immersed me in its huge size....ahhhh
Keep what you have,they content thats out there aint worth getting it's too early.
post #169 of 772
Markey per my prior post I had a strong feeling you'd miss the size. Here's another option for you...

Return the 65" for a 75" but get the 6400 or 7100 instead, and pocket the $2000-3000 difference. You'll get 90% + of the performance and have a bunch of money to put toward the inevitable upgrade when larger 4K sets have approachable prices.
post #170 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

Markey per my prior post I had a strong feeling you'd miss the size. Here's another option for you...

Return the 65" for a 75" but get the 6400 or 7100 instead, and pocket the $2000-3000 difference. You'll get 90% + of the performance and have a bunch of money to put toward the inevitable upgrade when larger 4K sets have approachable prices.

Not sure he's moving forward with what you propose.
I'm assuming he interested in the F9000 for improved pq over the F8000.
Your suggestion is to now get a lower level tv with lessor pq over what he originally had... to save money... when he spent more money on the F9000 to improve what he had?

Just as one finds it hard to go from a bigger screen (immersion) to a smaller screen, no one wants to go from great pq to lessor pq. That's going backwards, not forward my friend.

Waiting for 4k to come in bigger sizes (that are affordable by regular joes like you and me) and more importantly actually have 4k sources, well, who know when that'll be.
We're ready for a tv now and we're all just trying to find the biggest size, best picture that we can afford. Some people justify their purchase by price (like you anthonymoody) while others purchase by the best pq first, price secondary, like most of the early adopters gravitating to this thread my friend.
Edited by bekindrewind - 8/16/13 at 8:27am
post #171 of 772
I want to thank all the early adopters for getting the ball rolling. I used to be one, but the last straw for me was my Sony Qualia 70". So now, I'm among the "second in" group. I've decided that for me, this is the sweet spot. I don't forever miss out on the good stuff while waiting for "the next best thing", but I don't get stuck with some missing key features. For instance, with my Qualia I missed out on 1080p, which became available in less than a year in a 70" XBR Sony for half the price I paid. Setting aside the fact that the Sony SXRD technology had a fatal flaw causing Sony to abandon RPTV's and make my set an orphan; by waiting only a short time I could have lost only half as much when Sony bailed out. So now, I want a 80"-plus 4K set with HDMI 2.0, H.265 codec, and 10-bit color and I'm pretty sure that by waiting a few more months I'll get all that for substantially less than the currently-available sets. That's what I mean by "second-in". OLED may be better, but I don't want to wait for it to arrive. I've seen 4K and it's significantly better for 80"-plus sets and I'd buy one of today's sets, but for the fact that a short wait will add a few highly desirable features--and, oh by the way, save some money. It'll also probably see the end of the backlight banding issue, as well. So, once again, I thank all the early adopters for smoking out the issues and making the market but I'm no longer among you.
post #172 of 772
Moving back to the 7100 is probly not going to happen as that is where I started and the 8000 is a much better set. The more I watch the 4k content I am just imagining how stunning it would be on a 80"+ set. Which makes me want to wait just until the next batch of this tech is sent out. I really miss the extra 10" that the 75" gave me and I think that I will keep the 9000 until next week and then get the 75"8000 back and wait 6 months to 1 year and then get a 80+" set when they get down around the 8000 dollar range and have the first gen quirks worked out. As well as well as have some more content available.

I really just dont think im satisfied with a 65" set and to be honest thats pretty bad that 65" is no longer big enough.

Thanks for all the responses they are greatly appreciated! !
post #173 of 772
@bekind - I'm afraid you're missing the point completely my friend. And as it turns out he is going back to the 75" 8000. So, he is already accepting what you deem lower picture quality for a better overall and more immersive viewing experience owed to size. And, since he is also planning to get an 80" or larger 4K in the relatively near timer (6-12 months) that makes my suggestion more sensible, not less, since he's going to get crushed on depreciation on the 8000 far worse than he would on a less expensive set (if he sells it; if he moves it to a secondary location, all the more reason not to spend the extra money for the marginally better picture).

And as for those differences in picture quality, I frankly disagree. I think the differen from 6400 to 7100 to 8000 is marginal and as dependent on panel lottery as anything else. Yes, the 7100 adds the ability to darken 2.35:1 lbx bars, and the 8000 further adds smart led, but both have been shown to create their own issues and so though they can bring noticeable improvements they are not without cost, and I don't mean financial.

Obviously everyone is entitled to spend their money as they see fit, my friend. But that doesn't make is wise. Ted99 obviously learned the hard way, and I echo his sentiments of gratitude to the first gen 4K set adopters. I too plan on an 84" 4K set when the price is right for me. And note I didn't say when the price was affordable to me. Two very different things my friend.
post #174 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

@bekind - I'm afraid you're missing the point completely my friend. And as it turns out he is going back to the 75" 8000. So, he is already accepting what you deem lower picture quality for a better overall and more immersive viewing experience owed to size. And, since he is also planning to get an 80" or larger 4K in the relatively near timer (6-12 months) that makes my suggestion more sensible, not less, since he's going to get crushed on depreciation on the 8000 far worse than he would on a less expensive set (if he sells it; if he moves it to a secondary location, all the more reason not to spend the extra money for the marginally better picture).

And as for those differences in picture quality, I frankly disagree. I think the differen from 6400 to 7100 to 8000 is marginal and as dependent on panel lottery as anything else. Yes, the 7100 adds the ability to darken 2.35:1 lbx bars, and the 8000 further adds smart led, but both have been shown to create their own issues and so though they can bring noticeable improvements they are not without cost, and I don't mean financial.

Obviously everyone is entitled to spend their money as they see fit, my friend. But that doesn't make is wise. Ted99 obviously learned the hard way, and I echo his sentiments of gratitude to the first gen 4K set adopters. I too plan on an 84" 4K set when the price is right for me. And note I didn't say when the price was affordable to me. Two very different things my friend.

Let's say we agree to disagree anthonymoody.

I've posted that I comparied the UN75F8000 to the UN65F9000, both running from an oppo bpd 103 and at 10' saw no difference in pq between the two. Both were excellent. One does not really see the 4k upconversion difference in 65" and lower screens at that distance. It's not just me giving my oppion on this, read what Cnet and a lot of other reviewers say about 4k screen size and viewing distance determining if you can see the difference with upconversion, and that's really all we can play on these 4k sets right now.

You think the difference from 6400 to 7100 to 8000 is marginal? Take a poll on the F8000 thread and see who agrees with you.
Even merkey said, Moving back to the 7100 is probly not going to happen as that is where I started and the 8000 is a much better set.

Anyway, back to merkey99, I, we look forward to your take on the two sets when it comes down to the last day when you make your decision on which tv you end up with.

Cheers,
bekindrewind
post #175 of 772
Over all I think for me it is the right time to get the largest screen I can with the amount of money I feel comfortable with spending. Until 4k hits bluray and mainstream with force, for me I think I will be happier with a larger screen.

I will however be getting a 80"+ set when they are in the price range I feel comfortable spending for one. But right now I think for my personal use my money is spent wiser on a larger screen that immerses me rather than a smaller 4k screen that leaves me saying I wish there was more.

So as I sit tonight, I don't think I will be keeping the TV and being an early adaptor but waiting and getting a second gen larger set when they become available.

Just my feelings and who knows perhaps over the weekend of hard core movie watching my mind will change.

Once again thank you guys and comments are appreciated for both sides of the discussion!!
post #176 of 772
Merkey99, I'm with you and you're doing the right thing, bringing the sets into your home to make a real world decision.
I've been following your posts here, for I've been down the road you're currently on. I own the un75F8000 and have had the Elite pro -70x5fd, Sony 65xbrhx929/950, and a sharp 70" tv in my house. My previous tv was a Pioneer Elite 50" plasma. Hard to better the pq a Pioneer elite plasma, and that was the standard by which I measure.

"my money is spent wiser on a larger screen that immerses me rather than a smaller 4k screen that leaves me saying I wish there was more."
Well said, for that's what I did. And as I've mentioned before, one does not see the difference with up-converted material on the 65"4k compared to the un75f800 1080p, when viewed from a distance of more than 10'. I spent a lot of time in Magolia doing just that.

Can you move your sitting position closer to the 65f9000. If you can do that, then it becomes more immersive. It's like going up a screen size.
post #177 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

Merkey99, I'm with you and you're doing the right thing, bringing the sets into your home to make a real world decision.
I've been following your posts here, for I've been down the road you're currently on. I own the un75F8000 and have had the Elite pro -70x5fd, Sony 65xbrhx929/950, and a sharp 70" tv in my house. My previous tv was a Pioneer Elite 50" plasma. Hard to better the pq a Pioneer elite plasma, and that was the standard by which I measure.

"my money is spent wiser on a larger screen that immerses me rather than a smaller 4k screen that leaves me saying I wish there was more."
Well said, for that's what I did. And as I've mentioned before, one does not see the difference with up-converted material on the 65"4k compared to the un75f800 1080p, when viewed from a distance of more than 10'. I spent a lot of time in Magolia doing just that.

Can you move your sitting position closer to the 65f9000. If you can do that, then it becomes more immersive. It's like going up a screen size.

Why not try another plasma, if you are trying to better your Kuro? Seems somewhat futile to limit yourself to LED.
post #178 of 772
I have tired the Panny zt and vt 65" and then tried the Sammy 75f7100 and then went to the 75f8000 and now am trying the 65f9000. To me the 65 sets just look too small, I sit 12'-15' away from the screen and if I moved the couches closer by 5 feet it would cut into my living room space. To each their own but to downgrade to the panny 65zt60 would be like watching the 65f9000. And I think that the f9000 has a better over all pic than the zt but once again that is just my opinion. I like brighter pics with vivid colors which the pannys just don't do for me. And I have always been a panny plasma owner... I started with the v10 then the v20 and a vt50 sits in my bedroom all 60- 65" screens. When I tried the 75" screen I actually had the WOW factor that I had when I got my first plasma many years ago. If I am going to spend my hard earned money, I want that WOW factor and as it sits the 75" screen gives that to me right now over a very slightly better pic.

I am sure once I get a 80"+ 4k TV I will once again be saying WOW!!!
post #179 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

Why not try another plasma, if you are trying to better your Kuro? Seems somewhat futile to limit yourself to LED.

Ah, but the current plasma are no bigger than 65" and as most say, we want to be more immersed. So, futile, don't think so.
I've also gravitated to the brighter picture an LED provides.
LED's have matured since 2009, sadly, the end of the Kuro's
Pls, let's not get into the plasma vs led debate that has been on going for years and years.
There are plasma guys and Led guys. This is the led group.
post #180 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

I have tired the Panny zt and vt 65" and then tried the Sammy 75f7100 and then went to the 75f8000 and now am trying the 65f9000. To me the 65 sets just look too small, I sit 12'-15' away from the screen and if I moved the couches closer by 5 feet it would cut into my living room space. To each their own but to downgrade to the panny 65zt60 would be like watching the 65f9000. And I think that the f9000 has a better over all pic than the zt but once again that is just my opinion. I like brighter pics with vivid colors which the pannys just don't do for me. And I have always been a panny plasma owner... I started with the v10 then the v20 and a vt50 sits in my bedroom all 60- 65" screens. When I tried the 75" screen I actually had the WOW factor that I had when I got my first plasma many years ago. If I am going to spend my hard earned money, I want that WOW factor and as it sits the 75" screen gives that to me right now over a very slightly better pic.

I am sure once I get a 80"+ 4k TV I will once again be saying WOW!!!

+1...well said merkey99!
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