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Time to VOTE!! HSU vs Ascend vs Arx - Page 3

post #61 of 151
To the OP, try to base your decision on the descriptions of the sounds of these speakers, not the quantity of votes. Both HSU and Ascend are much bigger companies than ARX and have a much larger user base, so a straight-up vote really tells you little about what you would like.

Ascend makes some of the most well-regarded speakers in its price range. You won't go wrong with them. After extensive research, I was going to buy them for my system but ended up with the ARX line because I was able to get more bang for the buck. I have not heard the HSUs. I considered them, but I do not like the Klipsch speakers, so I did not think that I would like the HSU horn-loaded tweeters. This may be a false comparison since I have not heard the HSU.

So I suggest you ask people why they like the speakers they recommend rather than just take a vote. For me I am amazed at the clarity of the ARX line for both music and HT. They also have an impressive soundstage and imaging and are very neutral. I dislike forward speakers such as Klipsch. The Ascends are very good, too. You can't go wrong with either.

My last piece of advice is to ignore Brian, or block him. He is an immature teenager (really) who has been hijacking any thread that mentions Ascend.

PS Brian, no need to reply. I won't see your posts.
post #62 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnacleBill View Post

To the OP, try to base your decision on the descriptions of the sounds of these speakers, not the quantity of votes. Both HSU and Ascend are much bigger companies than ARX and have a much larger user base, so a straight-up vote really tells you little about what you would like.

Ascend makes some of the most well-regarded speakers in its price range. You won't go wrong with them. After extensive research, I was going to buy them for my system but ended up with the ARX line because I was able to get more bang for the buck. I have not heard the HSUs. I considered them, but I do not like the Klipsch speakers, so I did not think that I would like the HSU horn-loaded tweeters. This may be a false comparison since I have not heard the HSU.

So I suggest you ask people why they like the speakers they recommend rather than just take a vote. For me I am amazed at the clarity of the ARX line for both music and HT. They also have an impressive soundstage and imaging and are very neutral. I dislike forward speakers such as Klipsch. The Ascends are very good, too. You can't go wrong with either.

My last piece of advice is to ignore Brian, or block him. He is an immature teenager (really) who has been hijacking any thread that mentions Ascend.

PS Brian, no need to reply. I won't see your posts.


The readers of this thread should note this carefully. Most of the "other" members that have posted here (other than the 5-6 Ascend weirdo's that recommend the Ascends all the time) have GUESS WHAT, went with OTHER speakers. Dosent matter the process this and that, when money was dropped, they went with other speakers.

I dont think you will ever know these guys in real life, and if you come on this forum NOT to make friends, but to spend the best money for your budget, you should note that the join date for me is nearly 2 monthes, and the rest are pretty much 4 years and plus.

Then ofcourse these weirdos owuld have exchanged posts and have become "cyber" friends, and once that gets involved, then a bussiness product for itself of its value and performance gets overlooked, and rather the "friendliness" or the "exchanged of cyver posts" have taken over.

From a perspective of a newcomer who do NOT have the cyyber friends of Avsforum, you shold note that my opinion of a business product simply evaluating the bussiness product.

In the end, all the few "OLD time members" saying " I am sure the Ascends are great speakers" this and that, when it came to dropping the hard earned money, went with different speakers period.


Consider that.
Edited by Brian323 - 7/5/13 at 11:39pm
post #63 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

The readers of this thread should note this carefully. Most of the "other" members that have posted here (other than the 5-6 Ascend weirdo's that recommend the Ascends all the time) have GUESS WHAT, went with OTHER speakers. Dosent matter the process this and that, when money was dropped, they went with other speakers.

I dont think you will ever know these guys in real life, and if you come on this forum NOT to make friends, but to spend the best money for your budget, you should note that the join date for me is nearly 2 monthes, and the rest are pretty much 4 years and plus.

Then ofcourse these weirdos owuld have exchanged posts and have become "cyber" friends, and once that gets involved, then a bussiness product for itself of its value and performance gets overlooked, and rather the "friendliness" or the "exchanged of cyver posts" have taken over.

From a perspective of a newcomer who do NOT have the cyyber friends of Avsforum, you shold note that my opinion of a business product simply evaluating the bussiness product.

In the end, all the few "OLD time members" saying " I am sure the Ascends are great speakers" this and that, when it came to dropping the hard earned money, with different speakers period.


Consider that.

I don't own Ascend speakers but this whole post is about the biggest crock of BS I've ever read. rolleyes.gif

You have officially turned into one of the biggest trolls of the forum in the shortest amount of time that I've witnessed since being a member of AVS.
post #64 of 151
LOL. Its Friday and the July 4th weekend. Nothing better to do right now. But hey, all that I've been saying is the honest truth.
Edited by Brian323 - 7/5/13 at 11:43pm
post #65 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I don't own Ascend speakers but this whole post is about the biggest crock of BS I've ever read. rolleyes.gif

You have officially turned into one of the biggest trolls of the forum in the shortest amount of time that I've witnessed since being a member of AVS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

LOL. Its Friday and the July 4th weekend. Nothing better to do right now.
post #66 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post



Forgot to mention that everything I have been sayinig is the honest truth in evaluting a business product between the Ascend CBM170SE and the Hsu HB-1 MK2.
post #67 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Forgot to mention that everything I have been sayinig is the honest truth in evaluting a business product between the Ascend CBM170SE and the Hsu HB-1 MK2.
post #68 of 151
Ok after all this talk about hsu vs ascend I decided to do a little research ,Fist Im not in favor of anyone here but I have to honest of what I see and oh boy if you really know about tweeter design you know that the ascend tweeter is a better build.

The hsu is not a compression driver horn is a dome tweeter.








A chambered tweeter build by seas if you know about seas you should know that they don't build crappy tweeters.

Edited by losservatore - 7/6/13 at 12:48am
post #69 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

LOL. Its Friday and the July 4th weekend. Nothing better to do right now. But hey, all that I've been saying is the honest truth.

supporting evidence please.
post #70 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Ok after all this talk about hsu vs ascend I decided to do a little research ,Fist Im not in favor of anyone here but I have to honest of what I see and oh boy if you really know about tweeter design you know that the ascend tweeter is a better build.












That is the tweeter we use in the CMT-340SE and is custom made for us by SEAS. The tweeter in the CBM-170SE uses the same diaphragm but different motor assembly, Instead of a ferrite magnet with damping chamber, the 170 uses a neo slug magnet with dual damping chambers behind the diaphragm. It is actually a very expensive tweeter for a $348/pr set of loudspeakers, and rather absurd to use in a $298/pr of loudspeakers (HTM-200SE)

The idea behind the 170 tweeter was to get maximum performance with a smaller motor assembly, compared to a ferrite magnet, which allows for very tight mechanical spacing. SEAS did a great job designing this tweeter for us and you won't find it anywhere else. The HSU tweeter is a non-chambered aluminum dome, but it is horn loaded, which will have narrower dispersion characteristics and possibly greater efficiency in the lower high frequency range. It is hard to directly compare the two, very different design goals. The comparison here is really apples to oranges and room acoustics are going to play a heavy role as to which speaker is ultimately preferred.
post #71 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

supporting evidence please.

You have to remember that's he means "the truth according to Brian" which really isn't the truth but only the reality that exists inside his own head.
post #72 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

You have to remember that's he means "the truth according to Brian" which really isn't the truth but only the reality that exists inside his own head.


Did you read what Ascend wrote in the post RIGHT ABOVE yours? he himself said they had dfferent goals in mind. I kept saying from day 1 of the other threads that Hsu went with Soundstage and Ascends went with clarity, flat response and detail.


This is the truth that does not only exist in my head, but as you can clearly see, in the engineers head as well lol.
post #73 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Ok after all this talk about hsu vs ascend I decided to do a little research ,Fist Im not in favor of anyone here but I have to honest of what I see and oh boy if you really know about tweeter design you know that the ascend tweeter is a better build.

The hsu is not a compression driver horn is a dome tweeter.








A chambered tweeter build by seas if you know about seas you should know that they don't build crappy tweeters.





Well, you are comparing the CBM 340's which cost 2x the Hsu HB1's.
post #74 of 151
Moderator

posts deleted

please move on
post #75 of 151
Since one of TAI's brands has come up in this thread and one like it, I'm offering to privately discuss that brand in any and every capacity. I'm also available to shed light on the improper behind the scenes goings-on we've witnessed from time to time. Naturally I do not condone the disinformation in some of these threads, nor do I condone what goes on politically and professionally.

We're here to provide genuine performance and genuine value. Sometimes this means correcting assumptions - and worse - with factual, useful information. If you'd like a more objective point of view, I encourage you to contact us with your questions. I'm happy to personally answer PM, email, and telephone.
post #76 of 151
[ The comparison here is really apples to oranges and" ROOM ACOUSTICS" are going to play a heavy role as to which speaker is ultimately preferred.[/quote]+1 ALONG WITH PLACEMENT
post #77 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Well, you are comparing the CBM 340's which cost 2x the Hsu HB1's.

His point is still valid. The HSUs are not compression drivers. The Ascend CBM-170 SE and CMT-340 SE both use chambered tweeters. Both brands used dome tweeters, with HSU's using a wave guide.
post #78 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 
The HSUs are not compression drivers. The Ascend CBM-170 SE and CMT-340 SE both use chambered tweeters. Both brands used dome tweeters, with HSU's using a wave guide.

Since you are making a distinction on the speakers design, would you expand on the expected characteristics of these for the benefit of the OP? Maybe David can chime in to reinforce or object to what the perceived characteristic are? The OP is better serve if we could help him what to expect from one or the other.
post #79 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

Since you are making a distinction on the speakers design, would you expand on the expected characteristics of these for the benefit of the OP? Maybe David can chime in to reinforce or object to what the perceived characteristic are? The OP is better serve if we could help him what to expect from one or the other.

Dave of Ascend already explained this somewhat just a few posts before.

Beyond that, I know from reading discussions by Dave and other speaker designers like him that general tweeter characteristics like that don't tell us much about sound. The finer details of the design and implementation and the crossover have such a big impact and requires a much higher level of engineering knowledge than I (and probably most of us) have smile.gif
post #80 of 151
From what I have read and gathered (this is by no means "the absolute truth" smile.gif ), the horn loaded HSU may be better for movies first customers, for bigger dynamics and naturally higher sensitivity. A lot of people seems to prefer that, but hate the brightness introduced by the horns, ex. Klipsh. HSU seems to have been able to tame that, and may be a better alternative to the Klipsh. However, I don't know what the trade offs, if any, have been made to achieve that.

The only distinction David mentions comparing both (in terms of inherit characteristics, not design), is "but it is horn loaded, which will have narrower dispersion characteristics and possibly greater efficiency in the lower high frequency range". So one will assume by that the Ascend have a wider dispersion and lower efficiency in the lower high frequency range, when compared to HSU.

I would like his take (not Brian's) on overall soundstage, imaging, lower listening levels quality, etc. David mentions different goals, so it would be good to hear from his perspective, what goals he tries to achieve with his speakers, and what gains in sound characteristics are gained with the SEAs tweeter as opposed to the 170s tweeter.

I see many threads comparing HSUs and Ascends, seem to be the most popular around particular price segments so even though we will not all experience the same sound characteristics, I'm sure there could be a consensus regarding traits between these two speakers. Not having auditioned any of these speakers, it will serve great in terms of expectations.
post #81 of 151
Okay my question is ,what is the benefits of a rear chambered tweeter vs a non chambered?why they cost more? Marketing gimmick?
post #82 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Okay my question is ,what is the benefits of a rear chambered tweeter vs a non chambered?why they cost more? Marketing gimmick?

Here are some thoughts:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/loudspeaker-drivers/tweeter-resonance

also, if you google something like "advantages of rear chambered tweeter" you will find discussions on other forums.
post #83 of 151
To me looks like the CBM-170 SE and CMT-340 SE tweeters can cost more to build vs the hsu tweeter.


So is there any true benefit with this build?
post #84 of 151
Lowering of the resonant frequency and mitigation of the tweeters back wave among other things. Not a marketing gimmick.
post #85 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

To me looks like the CBM-170 SE and CMT-340 SE tweeters can cost more to build vs the hsu tweeter.


So is there any true benefit with this build?

Waveguide loading a tweeter has the benefit of significantly reducing distortion at the low end of a tweeters response, which can allow for a lower crossover point and higher output. It can also allow you to match the woofers directivity at the crossover point.
post #86 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

From what I have read and gathered (this is by no means "the absolute truth" smile.gif ), the horn loaded HSU may be better for movies first customers, for bigger dynamics and naturally higher sensitivity.

The HB-1s speaker sensitivity is probably not any higher than the CBM-170 SEs. HSU uses half space for sensitivity measurements; Ascend uses whole space. So you have to deduct from HSUs to compare then.
post #87 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The HB-1s speaker sensitivity is probably not any higher than the CBM-170 SEs. HSU uses half space for sensitivity measurements; Ascend uses whole space. So you have to deduct from HSUs to compare then.

I think it was measured around 86db? Which sounds accurate for a 6.5" 2 way with that kind of bass response. The horn loading doesn't do any more then what I described in my last post.
post #88 of 151
Thank you guys.




Can a ear really perceive this problems or you can only noticed by computer?


I'm trying to understand this chambered design, do this affect the clarity of the sound do to the material that is use to absorb the reflections? Maybe too much absorption?

I ask because some chambered tweeters sound too laid back with some lacks in clarity.
Edited by losservatore - 7/6/13 at 5:46pm
post #89 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Thanks you guys.




Can a ear really perceive this problems or you can only noticed by a computer?


I'm trying to understand this chambered design, do this affect the clarity of the sound do to the material that is use to absorb the reflections? Maybe too much absorption?

I ask because some chambered tweeters sound too laid back with some lacks in clarity.

The overall design is what's important, the drivers used are just going to determine what you can achieve.
post #90 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

I ask because some chambered tweeters sound too laid back with some lacks in clarity.
If all else is equal a chamber will result in lower Fs, and that will usually result in a loss of sensitivity at the upper end of the band width. Rule # 1 of loudspeaker design is that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Using a chamber will allow the tweeter to operate more smoothly to a lower frequency, but the trade off is that you will lose something at the other end of the spectrum. For that reason rear chambers are more commonly seen used in midrange drivers than tweeters, and tweeters tend to be crossed over a full octave above Fs, well above where the impedance peak is an issue.
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