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Is the Seaton SubMersive HP the Benchmark Sub? - Page 8

post #211 of 455
Quote:
What's a sub2?


http://www.paradigm.com/products/model=sub-2/page=overview
Edited by steve nn - 7/18/13 at 2:05pm
post #212 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Ken Kresiel's new DXD12012's where recently installed at Dolby theater in Hollywood for the Oscars and have largely played a role in many reference mixes under the M&K banner , the new DXD12012 is a new beast entirely and set a record at "Secrets" on its distortion measurements http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwoofers/subwoofers-reviews/ken-kreisel-dxd-12012-dual-12-push-pull-subwoofer/page-4-on-the-bench.html
if price is not an issue on the criteria, as its designed as subwoofer system and now that someone has mentioned the Sub 2 which would be a solid contender as well as the Seaton ,but at the price 11k and as a whole I'd put a Quattro on Ken's sub at the top of my list for benchmark sub and even two would more than get the job done.



If a FR that rolls off at 20Hz like the DXD12012 is what you're after, and you think 2 of those would "more than get the job done", I wonder what you'd think about the SVS PB13-Ultra which would roughly match the output of 4 of those for 1/6th the cost and taking up half the space.
post #213 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

http://www.paradigm.com/products/model=sub-2/page=overview

Paradigm's reference sub for their signature line.

Oh yes, I read the review on that at data-bass
post #214 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Oh yes, I read the review on that at data-bass

Really! smile.gif
post #215 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Really! smile.gif

Well maybe not, now I can't find it. Sometimes I'm up late on the iPad learning this stuff. I really thought it was there. I'll look when I get home. I can still see the pictures in my mind of it sitting in the field. Other pics with some drivers taken out to have a look inside. And more...
Edited by jlpowell84 - 7/18/13 at 2:28pm
post #216 of 455
I don't think it's a question of whether the SubM is a great sub or not. It clearly is, judging by the word-of-mouth praises it is getting. What I find weak in this whole debate, is the "reasoning" as to why one hasn't been tested by the established authority around here (data-bass). These reasons range from not wanting to offend Mark by sending a privately owned SubM to Mark being concerned that his company might grow so fast that QC and demand would be insurmountable issues--or something along those lines. Like I said before, if it were a start-up company, say a year or two, this argument might make sense depending on how you look at it. Having been around for more than six years, the same logic just doesn't apply anymore. What would be enough? eight years? twelve?. I don't mean to disrespect anyone but the reasons given for not wanting/having this Sub tested thus far, is just entirely weak.
post #217 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It would take 4 of those KK subs to equal the one sub2 at 16hz so I am not sure where the savings will be.

keep in mind you gain 6db across the board with each additional sub and there designed to be corner loaded, I doubt it would take 4, and what I get from one in 21x20x8 room, two should do the trick biggrin.gif
post #218 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post



If a FR that rolls off at 20Hz like the DXD12012 is what you're after, and you think 2 of those would "more than get the job done", I wonder what you'd think about the SVS PB13-Ultra which would roughly match the output of 4 of those for 1/6th the cost and taking up half the space.

Read closer it wasn't in a corner rolleyes.gif
post #219 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

keep in mind you gain 6db across the board with each additional sub and there designed to be corner loaded, I doubt it would take 4, and what I get from one in 21x20x8 room, two should do the trick biggrin.gif

Ya at $2995 a pop So for $5995 you still might be "happy" with the end result no thanks.... for 5-7k you can get a lot more sub.
post #220 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

Ya at $2995 a pop So for $5995 you still might be "happy" with the end result no thanks.... for 5-7k you can get a lot more sub.

Doubt it, I like clean deep bass and sometimes you gotta pay to play wink.gif
post #221 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Doubt it, I like clean deep bass and sometimes you gotta pay to play wink.gif

I don't disagree but the term no replacement for displacement comes to mind.
post #222 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

I don't disagree but the term no replacement for displacement comes to mind.

I'm not sure I follow?
post #223 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

I'm not sure I follow?

I don't agree with spending that much money for only 12 inch drivers. At least not in a sealed alignment.
post #224 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well maybe not, now I can't find it. Sometimes I'm up late on the iPad learning this stuff. I really thought it was there. I'll look when I get home. I can still see the pictures in my mind of it sitting in the field. Other pics with some drivers taken out to have a look inside. And more...

Oh yeah it's there jl.. I was being facieses.. not towards you though. wink.gif
post #225 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Read closer it wasn't in a corner rolleyes.gif

Big deal, the PB13-Ultra was measured outdoors.
post #226 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

I don't agree with spending that much money for only 12 inch drivers. At least not in a sealed alignment.



Once its heard its an experience you won't forget , I wonder why he didn't go 15 or 18 as well , but the end result is all that matters! and what a result it is , later I'll post some links to forums from around the world , even one where some guys had a gtg and had a Seaton and KK DXD12012 in the same room eek.gifbiggrin.gif
It seems they both fared well, you should Seaton lovers have fun with this wink.gif
post #227 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Oh yeah it's there jl.. I was being facieses.. not towards you though. wink.gif

smile.gif
post #228 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Once its heard its an experience you won't forget , I wonder why he didn't go 15 or 18 as well , but the end result is all that matters! and what a result it is , later I'll post some links to forums from around the world , even one where some guys had a gtg and had a Seaton and KK DXD12012 in the same room eek.gifbiggrin.gif
It seems they both fared well, you should Seaton lovers have fun with this wink.gif

I'm not disagreeing that is a great sub. The Kilpisch THX ultra 2 sub set at 4.5k is a great sub set. But I still wouldn't pay that much for it.
post #229 of 455
So Audiofan1. You are not in the group that says, "bass is bass?" Rather the camp that different subs have different sonic characteristics? I'm not poking you but an honest question. smile.gif
post #230 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

So Audiofan1. You are not in the group that says, "bass is bass?" Rather the camp that different subs have different sonic characteristics? I'm not poking you but an honest question. smile.gif

Until one subjects himself to a blind test of limited distortion and identical FR (EQd) between multiple subs, he cannot have a valid opinion about this.

I'm not saying he hasn't- this goes for anyone. Maybe he has.
post #231 of 455
With the Submersive XL on the horizon I would rather see that measured and tested. That should be a complete beast.cool.gif
Chris
post #232 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

With the Submersive XL on the horizon I would rather see that measured and tested. That should be a complete beast.cool.gif
Chris

Honestly it would nice to see either tested.

I
post #233 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

Until one subjects himself to a blind test of limited distortion and identical FR (EQd) between multiple subs, he cannot have a valid opinion about this.

I'm not saying he hasn't- this goes for anyone. Maybe he has.

I agree, theoretically, because I haven't subjected myself to such blind testing smile.gif
post #234 of 455
Well if that test on the KK was in a corner then it would take 8 to equal the sub2 at 16hz! A corner adds at least 6 dBs to the output so put that sub2 in the same corner and add 6 dBs to be fair. Now it is 90 dBs for the KK vs 108 dBs for the sub2. That is 8 subs my friend.
post #235 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well if that test on the KK was in a corner then it would take 8 to equal the sub2 at 16hz! A corner adds at least 6 dBs to the output so put that sub2 in the same corner and add 6 dBs to be fair. Now it is 90 dBs for the KK vs 108 dBs for the sub2. That is 8 subs my friend.

Case in point. Physics can't be beat.... nor bargained with.
post #236 of 455
Quote:
Ya at $2995 a pop So for $5995 you still might be "happy" with the end result no thanks.... for 5-7k you can get a lot more sub.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post


Doubt it, I like clean deep bass and sometimes you gotta pay to play wink.gif

Oh boy...here come the fireworks.

post #237 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Oh boy...here come the fireworks.

Hey all I'm saying is that's a lot of money not to be completely happy with what you bought.
post #238 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

With the Submersive XL on the horizon I would rather see that measured and tested. That should be a complete beast.cool.gif
Chris

I would like to see anything seaton or jtr tested so us folks that dont have the priviledge of going to sub shootouts have something to reference. word of mouth is a beautiful thing, however when i am dropping some decent coin on a product, I want some data. as jbrown said, i wouldnt go buy a corvette not knowing its power, 0-60, and top speed before hand. High performance subs need the data to back up thier credentials. I dont think its too much to ask....if it is I will shop elsewhere plain and simple. smile.gif
post #239 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post


Hey all I'm saying is that's a lot of money not to be completely happy with what you bought.

No argument here.

post #240 of 455
There are some obvious observations to be made here.

First Mark Seaton doesn't need testing by a qualified 3rd party tester like Josh Ricci. His sales are doing quite well, he is happy, so are his clients.
The Submersive HP has done very well at just about every GTG its been to (documented here on AVS)....1st or second against any other commercial offerings every time. Mostly first overall.
And it seems the opposed dual 15" driver configuration would prove challenging to accurately test outside @ 1 meter. Room gain is substantial in this case.

Do you think 3rd party testing results will really impact potential buyers for the Submersive? Guys who pluck out $2600 delivered, or $5000 for twins? I don't think so.
There is enough data, well satisfied clients and user input on Mark's blog and here on AVS to accomplish the task.
Does Mark Seaton or the Submersive HP need third party validation? Just what more would it do for him or his product?
He isn't complaining, nor a single Submersive owner for that fact.
Edited by polizzio - 7/18/13 at 5:57pm
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