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HTD level 2 VS Polk audio ebay store - Page 2

post #31 of 123
Just a couple things. The HSU's are not high sensitivity, they were measured at about 86 db. The BIC's I was suggesting are very similar to the HSU's, with the difference being an extra 6.5" woofer, meaning a realistic 6 db output advantage.

You have a 20' x 40' room, and you plan on rocking out from almost 40' away... Output capability from the speakers and sub is going to be a huge deal. The standard HiFi speakers commonly recommended will not cut it.

If you can spend more, there's Cervwin Vega, and Klipsch as options. You also have the 8" woofer Bic models

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIC-Acoustech-PL-89-Tower-Speakers-BRAND-NEW-VERSION-/370608148662?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item5649f790b6

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIC-Acoustech-PL-28-Center-Channel-Speaker-Brand-New-/390428308083?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item5ae7573273

Cerwin Vega

http://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-XLS-28-3-Way-Audio-Speaker/dp/B002JGZ9RC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373561990&sr=8-1&keywords=cerwin+vega+xls+28

http://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-XLS-6C-Center-Channel-Speaker/dp/B002JGZBJS/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373562013&sr=1-5&keywords=cerwin+vega+xls

http://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-XLS-6-2-Way-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B002JH4L1G/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373562013&sr=1-4&keywords=cerwin+vega+xls

Klipsch

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RF-82-Reference-Floorstanding-Loudspeaker/dp/B0041GEZDM/ref=sr_1_2?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1373562074&sr=1-2&keywords=klipsch+reference

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RC-62-Center-Channel-Speaker/dp/B0040QS8R2/ref=sr_1_9?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1373562138&sr=1-9&keywords=klipsch+reference

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RB-51-II-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B0040LG96O/ref=sr_1_4?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1373562174&sr=1-4&keywords=klipsch+reference

What ever you do, dont skimp out on those subs.
post #32 of 123
Ah yes you are right, I keep forgetting HSU lists the sensitivity in half space
post #33 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

They sell the PA-150 sub there, and you can usually get a price considerably lower than what is listed with the make an offer feature. Just ask them what the lowest price they can do is. Also, you could probably ask if you can bundle the PA-150 with that 5.1 system instead of the PA-120. I would wager if you are wanting to get 2 PA-150s, you can probably leverage a good deal on the lot.

Thats awesome to know and consider! thanks again!
post #34 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

No reason, other than dipole/bipole speakers are more of a challenge to place. Given the fact that your rear wall is at least 2 dozen feet from where you're sitting it could very well mitigate their true value.
Definitely see if you can get the 15" subs instead. You'll need them.


On the surrounds, I was thinking of hanging them from the ceiling. I have a way to find the rafter joist and w/ my wire welder I could maybe conjure up some brackets then suspend from the ceiling. If done right I thought i would look pretty neat.

I'm pretty much sold on getting a pair of 15's. More coin on subs that I had planned but I'd like to buy my set up once and call it good for 15-20 years.
post #35 of 123
Thread Starter 
Jay,

Whats your thought on the BIC price VS price compared to:

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1212&sc=27


The BIC seem to be very efficient and you and Jim pretty much sold me on the PA15 sub. I've read enough reviews and data that it should be plenty for what I'd need. We would like to down size the house in a few years, have the TV room seperate from the gym. I could use one sub in each; have my cake and eat it too!

I'm nearly sold on the BIC's. I do like the cabinets of the acoustics VS the black BIC, however I'm not sure how to compare them otherwise. I have read a lot of good things about the ARS and EMP but the EMP price is a little high but the Arx seem nice however the sensitivity is lower than the BIC.
Edited by powerlifter405 - 7/11/13 at 10:53am
post #36 of 123
For your situation the BICs would definitely be my choice over the PAs. The PAs look like a well thought out design, but they are going to be limited by how hard that tweeter can be pushed, and it's not going to come close to the BIC tweeter.
post #37 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

For your situation the BICs would definitely be my choice over the PAs. The PAs look like a well thought out design, but they are going to be limited by how hard that tweeter can be pushed, and it's not going to come close to the BIC tweeter.

I just wish that the BIC were "prettier"... sounds stooooopid i know but I don't want the HT in a box look.

So maybe:
BIC Acoustech PL-89 Tower 589
BIC Acoustech PL-28 Center 199
BIC Acoustech PL-66 239

so that is $1027 minus the PA subs. Not bad I guess. How does that look? Any other recommendations? I haven't gotten the Denon yet, I could always change that up but @ 400 bucks for the 2113 I'm thinking that money is well spent.

My old 45 watt HK and MTX filled the living fine for my likes.

Comparing the BIC vs the PA, will the primary diffence be volume? At half dial-volume I am more concerned with clarity vs SPL.

I did email acousticsounddesign and got back, "not sure". I gave him a list of items they stock and what would preform better and he said "not sure" and said to get klipsch.... so much for customer service.
post #38 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

I just wish that the BIC were "prettier"... sounds stooooopid i know but I don't want the HT in a box look.

So maybe:
BIC Acoustech PL-89 Tower 589
BIC Acoustech PL-28 Center 199
BIC Acoustech PL-66 239

so that is $1027 minus the PA subs. Not bad I guess. How does that look? Any other recommendations? I haven't gotten the Denon yet, I could always change that up but @ 400 bucks for the 2113 I'm thinking that money is well spent.

My old 45 watt HK and MTX filled the living fine for my likes.

Comparing the BIC vs the PA, will the primary diffence be volume? At half dial-volume I am more concerned with clarity vs SPL.

I did email acousticsounddesign and got back, "not sure". I gave him a list of items they stock and what would preform better and he said "not sure" and said to get klipsch.... so much for customer service.

I dont see you giving up clarity, especially if you toe the BICs in. A waveguide loaded tweeter focuses the sound to a greater degree, so if you have them pointing straight ahead you might feel the highs are lacking, but once you toe that angle in you will get an extremely focused sound.

Your receiver deal does seem like a pretty good one.

Of course the retailer is going to try and up sell you, pretty good chance he hasnt even hear any of the speakers rolleyes.gif
post #39 of 123
If you are going to be using your front speakers as "small" crossed at 60 hz - 80hz, I don't see why you would spend more on towers. Unless you want to spend the extra solely on looks. You can use the center as LCR. As far as i know it'll give you the same output for mids and high, and you sub(s) taking care of the lows.

I don't see many people using their towers full range (large setting) when using a good sub. I believe it may create issues with some setups.
post #40 of 123
Thread Starter 
BIC compared to Klipsch?

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=685&crid=243&cat_name=Klipsch+Home+Theater+Systems

VS the BIC you laid out.

Both using the same PA-150?

Also the Klipsch set up above has the PA-150 as a free option.

1200 for the Klipsch above or
1027 for the BIC's
post #41 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

If you are going to be using your front speakers as "small" crossed at 60 hz - 80hz, I don't see why you would spend more on towers. Unless you want to spend the extra solely on looks. You can use the center as LCR. As far as i know it'll give you the same output for mids and high, and you sub(s) taking care of the lows.

I don't see many people using their towers full range (large setting) when using a good sub. I believe it may create issues with some setups.

so your saying go w/ the smaller BIC setup Jay laid out vs the larger ones?
post #42 of 123
Ehh, those Klipsch only have 4" woofers, they arent going to do well in a large room.
post #43 of 123
The 8" BICs do have an output advantage, not just more low end. I think the 6" models will still get the job done though.
post #44 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I dont see you giving up clarity, especially if you toe the BICs in. A waveguide loaded tweeter focuses the sound to a greater degree, so if you have them pointing straight ahead you might feel the highs are lacking, but once you toe that angle in you will get an extremely focused sound.

Your receiver deal does seem like a pretty good one.

Of course the retailer is going to try and up sell you, pretty good chance he hasnt even hear any of the speakers rolleyes.gif

Really? Surprised in some regard. At least every diesel shop I deal w/ that have items I want, they have them installed on their personal vehicles...

You'd think if these shops are selling it, they've at least heard some of the product line for comparable purposes....
post #45 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

If you are going to be using your front speakers as "small" crossed at 60 hz - 80hz, I don't see why you would spend more on towers. Unless you want to spend the extra solely on looks. You can use the center as LCR. As far as i know it'll give you the same output for mids and high, and you sub(s) taking care of the lows.

I don't see many people using their towers full range (large setting) when using a good sub. I believe it may create issues with some setups.

The towers will not only provide a fuller sound, they also have more output capability. In a large room both of those advantages are very beneficial.
post #46 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The 8" BICs do have an output advantage, not just more low end. I think the 6" models will still get the job done though.

What do you mean by "output advantage"??
edjamacteme
post #47 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Ehh, those Klipsch only have 4" woofers, they arent going to do well in a large room.

LOL thanks Jay & Jim.

So you guys think the larger 8" BIC's w/ 2 PA-150's would fill the bill?

Plenty of volume for the gym, bass for rumble and clarity for my deafness and to please the wife. Lastly, yes i'm bad, but lastly she could care less about thunderous bass but she''ll be impressed by clear dialogue and sound quality her music.
post #48 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

What do you mean by "output advantage"??
edjamacteme

Straight from the product page
Quote:
BIC/Acoustech Platinum Plus Series PL-89 II floor speaker. Adding to the top-rated PL-89's attributes: superb performance, high output to 119 dB (live rock band levels), ported design enabling frequencies as low as 25 Hz, top-notch materials and build quality, the PL-89 II floor speaker delivers even more impressive performance than its predecessor.
Quote:
Formula FH-6T

Price (MSRP): $349/Each
Design: 400-Watt 2-way horn tower with dual 6 1/2" woofers
Frequency Response: 36Hz - 23kHz
Sensitivity: 96dB @ 1 watt, 1 meter, high efficiency output to 116 dB
post #49 of 123
the PL28 II and the PL 89II , they both have dual 8' drivers plus the horn. The tower will provide more output and the lower end, that may be wasted if crossed with the sub. At the higher frequencies, they should have the same amount of output. I don't have the measurements, but I don't think believe I'm mistaken. So basically, we are looking at price differences, hence I would pick the PL-28ii as LCR.
post #50 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

the PL28 II and the PL 89II , they both have dual 8' drivers plus the horn. The tower will provide more output and the lower end, that may be wasted if crossed with the sub. At the higher frequencies, they should have the same amount of output. I don't have the measurements, but I don't think believe I'm mistaken. So basically, we are looking at price differences, hence I would pick the PL-28ii as LCR.

The only question about that is, how do you know if the horn has an equal horizontal/vertical dispersion pattern? The 6" model is marketed as an LCR, but not the 8". Not sure if there is differences with the horn, but there may be.

That, and the sides arent flat for the PL28, so he would have to wall mount, or build a custom stand with a contoured top...
post #51 of 123
I don't know, but I do know some companies have you rotate the horn 90 degrees to be used vertically.
post #52 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

the PL28 II and the PL 89II , they both have dual 8' drivers plus the horn. The tower will provide more output and the lower end, that may be wasted if crossed with the sub. At the higher frequencies, they should have the same amount of output. I don't have the measurements, but I don't think believe I'm mistaken. So basically, we are looking at price differences, hence I would pick the PL-28ii as LCR.

Somehow you believe by putting the same drivers (assuming they are, of course) in completely different cabinets that the results will be the same? So the size of the enclosure doesn't play a factor, nor does the fact one is acoustic suspension and the other bass reflex? What about the crossover tuning? The only part it seems you have correct is the screen name you've chosen...
post #53 of 123
Thanks for the kind remarks. I said it "should" have the same output at the higher frequencies, not at lowest frequencies.
post #54 of 123
Anyway, at least BIC seems to agree with me.

PL-89ii
Quote:
We proudly introduce the new BIC/Acoustech Platinum Plus Series PL-89 II floor speaker. Adding to the top-rated PL-89's attributes: superb performance, high output to 119 dB (live rock band levels), ported design enabling frequencies as low as 25 Hz, top-notch materials and build quality, the PL-89 II floor speaker delivers even more impressive performance than its predecessor.

PL-28ii
Quote:
We proudly introduce the new BIC/Acoustech Platinum Plus Series PL-28 II center speaker. Adding to the top-rated PL-28's attributes: superb performance, high output to 119 dB (live rock band levels), high power 8" woofers for extended bass output, top-notch materials and build quality, the PL-28 II center speaker delivers even more impressive performance than its predecessor.
post #55 of 123
I've been looking at the ARX speakers for a while. I'm also looking into selling my current set up and possibly buying the Polk Audio Rti10 (same as the RtiA7), but cheaper.

Here's the site for the Arx speakers. You can get a pair of towers for $740 plus shipping puts it at a little over $800.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/manufacturers.php?mPath=13&osCsid=21dda36609adc154961bb216a18aa0a2
post #56 of 123
Thread Starter 
I just measured from TV to my couch and its at 10feet. I don't know if that makes any difference.

I contacted sound distributors and got a generic 15% off code when i asked for some package deals but nothing else specific on the products they carry.

I will admit I like the look of the PA package they have AND it includes the PA-150 sub for 1000 bucks. The BIC is a bit more plus I still have to purchase at least one sub.

I did find the wharfedale and some Focal on sale as well BUT I find limited info on those.

for comparision I also found some Wharfedale diamond and towers 10.5, center and rears put me at 1183, which is about the same price as the BIC.

For the price of some of the HSU I found a set of Focals for 1500 on Musicdirect.

The BICs and PA are the top two at the moment. The PA is cheaper but the BIC seems like it will produce more clarity and higher volumes w/ continued clarity.

Thanks for the input guys.
post #57 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I've been looking at the ARX speakers for a while. I'm also looking into selling my current set up and possibly buying the Polk Audio Rti10 (same as the RtiA7), but cheaper.

Here's the site for the Arx speakers. You can get a pair of towers for $740 plus shipping puts it at a little over $800.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/manufacturers.php?mPath=13&osCsid=21dda36609adc154961bb216a18aa0a2

The thing about the ARX and BIC is at least on the website, seem box store cheap.

I'd rather spend the 1400 on the Swan Diva but the A1, A2 and A3 is only 1k but I wonder which would produce better sound. But again that is subjective to some degree.
The A5 was previously mentioned but there is no accompaning center at the moment.

I don't know at the moment. Still pondering....
post #58 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

The thing about the ARX and BIC is at least on the website, seem box store cheap.

I'd rather spend the 1400 on the Swan Diva but the A1, A2 and A3 is only 1k but I wonder which would produce better sound. But again that is subjective to some degree.
The A5 was previously mentioned but there is no accompaning center at the moment.

I don't know at the moment. Still pondering....

Arx is far from box store cheap. Its more like alot of speakers are overpriced and designed and made for penny pinching profits. I would easily put Arx speakers up against much more expensive speakers for sure. The BIC speakers are not in the same quality and tech as the Arx speakers.

http://www.affordableaudio.org/

"Regarding the fit and finish of the A1bs: I've seen far more expensive speakers that do not have the fit and finish of the A1bs. If one were to remove the price sticker from the A1bs, I think many may find the A1bs competitive with many speakers that sell for triple the price ... no foolin'."

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/65546-arx-a1b-a2b-speaker-review.html

" I'm not sure how (or more accurately, why) TAI is selling them this cheap, but if you're in the market for a home theater or stereo system comprised of speakers with exceptional qualities make sure you don't plunk your money down on anything until you give the Arx a try. If you are the type of person who loves to hear others say in total disbelief "you only paid how much for those?!" then Arx needs to be on your short list. Their appearance might not win any prizes, but the extraordinary sound they create certainly could."

Try Arx woofer on the right $299 bookshelf vs a $500plus bookshelf woofer on the left.

post #59 of 123
The great excursion capabilities of the Arx woofers arent going to offer him any advantage for this situation. Also, a typical 5.5" woofer has a Sd of 80 cm2, where as a typical 8" woofer has a Sd of 200 cm2. So two 8" woofers equals five 5.5" woofers.
post #60 of 123
Thread Starter 
I didn't mean ARX cheap quality but as you look at the end product. No one would look at my truck and realize I"m pushing just over 600hp in a daily driver application and for 8600lbs it moves the 1/4 in 12 sec @105mph. So i understand the book cover vs content.

I did find some reviews for the Wharfedale diamond 10.5 towers and the accompanying system.

Jay,
whats your thought on the Diamond 10.5 towers and accompanying center and surrounds??
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