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Speakers too high on wall?

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
I'm reposting my issue here in hopes of getting additional advice.

I have a dedicated media room in our new house. 12 ft wide, 17ft long

The builder prewired the room for 7.1

All 7 speakers are located aprox 10ft from the floor

Three across the front, two on the sides and two in the rear.

I have a Sony STR-DN1030 7.2 ch receiver. that will be used in this setup

A recommended Home Media Installer suggested the following setup with speaker locations remaining unchanged.

Projector: Epson Procinema 6020 $2,700

Includes 2 pairs of 3D glasses and comes with an extra lamp


Screen: DragonFly 120" Fixed screen with Velvet border
High Contrast Grey screen with 1.1 gain $650


Speakers: Episode 300 series In-wall speakers with 6.5" woofer
Model is ES-300-IW-6 7 of these speakers for $545


Episode ES-SUB 10-200 Subwoofer: $289

Labor: $500



The installer swears it will sound awesome but it seems as though everyone online thus far has said the speakers need to be located near ear level or it won't sound right.

What say you?



post #2 of 32
It is not ideal but if you can angle them down at all, it would help. If you can't and they will be shooting straight out at 10 feet, then the performance will be suboptimal. Can you still watch a movie and enjoy it? Sure. That is what your installer is saying. Try getting the grills painted the color of the wall. That way, your eyes won't notice it and the brain will be better fooled into thinking the sound is coming from where the action is on screen.
post #3 of 32
Thread Starter 
The wall with the speakers is at an angle so the speakers would be facing downward
post #4 of 32
Thread Starter 
Not straight down but downward towards our seating location near the back wall.
post #5 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

All 7 speakers are located aprox 10ft from the floor

I agree with the others that angling the speakers down (and inward) to face the main listening position is better than having them face straight out. But really, you'll get the best results with all speakers at a height that puts their tweeters at ear level. This is not an expensive system, but don't you want to get the most out of it? If this were my room I'd patch over the existing wiring holes and do it again. And tell your installer to read this page and learn:

How to set up a room

--Ethan
post #6 of 32
^+1

I have heard speaker setups like this prewired room and the sense of realism isnt anywhere close to a theater experience. Any music, stereo or multichannel, wont sound right to a discerning listener either. This is a dedicated media room and should be setup within recommended parameters for 7.1. Front sound stage tweeters at ear level, surrounds at ear level or perhaps a couple of feet higher, and you can get by with the rears higher and angled down.

I don't know about your screen but I am presuming that it is not acoustically transparent; you would need to compromise on the location of the all important center speaker (mainly dialogue with movie playback). Place as close to the bottom or top of the screen center, with the speaker angled to the listeners' ears.

I personally love that color you've painted the walls and the sconces, as well. Finish it right!
Edited by snpanago - 7/13/13 at 2:58pm
post #7 of 32
First off, your installer is an idiot, second they do not not know what they are talking about. I have my fronts at ear level, the Center below the tv, but angled up towards seating, rears are about two feet above head level.

Even if they angle the speakers down, who will know how it will sound, until you get that room loaded with furniture, and run the setup on the system, to see how it sounds.
post #8 of 32
Way too high
post #9 of 32
"The installer swears it will sound awesome"... WOW, "well I guess we should go with it, as he suggests, wright him a check honey".
To the OP, did you design the room layout and the angled drywall? Now that you are at this stage of the project, go with it the way it is.
The room looks very nice and is child proof with the spkrs up high. If after dialing in the system, you don't like the sound, make the modifications,
and place the spkrs where they should go, more at seated ear level. It's not the end of the world if you need to rewire and patch some drywall.
If you want to abandon the existing wall plates, you could simply buy some blank plates and screw them in and be done with it. Paint them the
same color as the walls. If down the road you need to do some trouble shooting and rewiring, the old plate locations might be an access point
that you might need to pull some new wires. BTW, what kind of wire was installed? What guage and length?
Nothing wrong with a little experimentation.
post #10 of 32
The 5.1 HT setup at my previous house used in-wall speakers with the front L / R at ear level, the center just above the video monitor, and the L / R surround in the ceiling directly to the side facing straight down for a non-direct sound field to the listening position and I was very happy with the results. I would suggest changing to near ear level for your fronts / center and staying with the angled inward for the surrounds and forward for back surrounds. Good luck!
post #11 of 32
Thread Starter 
I asked the installer what he would charge to lower the speaker locations. Here is his response


"I don't believe I can lower the 3 in the front and the one on the left side since your roof line comes into play in both locations"


Note: The screen wall and the wall on the left are exterior walls on the 2nd floor of our home.


Do you guys agree that the location of those speakers would be difficult to move because of the roof line? I assume he means he can't access them from the attic or something.
post #12 of 32
Thread Starter 
I'm willing to spend another $1500 to make sure i get quality sound.
post #13 of 32
I would think you should be able to cut out some of the drywall and even notch the studs if neccesary to bring those locations down further and then patch it up and repaint! wink.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #14 of 32
Lower them. You will be much happier with the sound. Nows the time.
post #15 of 32
Thread Starter 
Posting this in two threads in hopes of additional feedback

Spoke with someone today that seemed more knowledgeable then the previous folks. Here is what he recommended for my room. Note: speaker height remains the same


Projector: JVC RS4810: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102176 (this projector is not available to many dealers. It comes with a 3 year warranty. It is the same projector as an RS48, but extra JVC inspection and extra year of warranty.

Mount: Chief RPA281 mount: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/rpa281 (mount pic does not show custom projector interface plate)

Chief ceiling plate: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/cma101

Chief drop tube: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/cms018 (18” plate would place the projector lens right at 24” down from ceiling. Would need to confirm mounting height of screen and projector)

Screen: 133" 2:35 screen : Screen Innovations Theater Performance Fixed frame, Solar 4k: http://www.screeninnovations.com/projector-screens/fixed/performance/#SliderNav1

Speakers:
Klipsch KL-7800-THX for front three: http://www.klipsch.com/kl-7800-thx-in-wall-speaker

Klipsch KS-7800-THX for side surrounds: http://www.klipsch.com/ks-7800-thx-in-wall-speaker

Klipsch RS-52 II for back surrounds: http://www.klipsch.com/rs-52-ii-surround-speaker

Subwoofer:

SVS PB12-NSD for sub: http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd#.UecOGEHGSSo

What do ya guys think?
Edited by nflguy - 7/17/13 at 8:39pm
post #16 of 32
"Note: speaker height remains the same" pretty much loses my interest in your thread and its topic. Esp. without explanation as to how you examined the majority of forum members' responses and so briefly concluded this. Good luck.
post #17 of 32
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your helpful input.
post #18 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

Note: speaker height remains the same ... What do ya guys think?

I think your new person doesn't know any more than your previous person. biggrin.gif

Seriously, if you don't want to take our word for it, maybe you'll trust the experts who defined the standards for surround mixing and reproduction:

Grammy Surround Standards

--Ethan
post #19 of 32
Sounds like you don't want to lower the speakers. Ethan Winer, nice link.
post #20 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

Posting this in two threads in hopes of additional feedback

Spoke with someone today that seemed more knowledgeable then the previous folks. Here is what he recommended for my room. Note: speaker height remains the same


Projector: JVC RS4810: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102176 (this projector is not available to many dealers. It comes with a 3 year warranty. It is the same projector as an RS48, but extra JVC inspection and extra year of warranty.

Mount: Chief RPA281 mount: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/rpa281 (mount pic does not show custom projector interface plate)

Chief ceiling plate: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/cma101

Chief drop tube: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/cms018 (18” plate would place the projector lens right at 24” down from ceiling. Would need to confirm mounting height of screen and projector)

Screen: 133" 2:35 screen : Screen Innovations Theater Performance Fixed frame, Solar 4k: http://www.screeninnovations.com/projector-screens/fixed/performance/#SliderNav1

Speakers:
Klipsch KL-7800-THX for front three: http://www.klipsch.com/kl-7800-thx-in-wall-speaker

Klipsch KS-7800-THX for side surrounds: http://www.klipsch.com/ks-7800-thx-in-wall-speaker

Klipsch RS-52 II for back surrounds: http://www.klipsch.com/rs-52-ii-surround-speaker

Subwoofer:

SVS PB12-NSD for sub: http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd#.UecOGEHGSSo

What do ya guys think?




"What do ya guys think?"


I think that anyone that advises you to leave the speakers that high should be banned from ever talking about home theater again! rolleyes.gif

You have some decent equipment listed and a potentially nice room. You should really do your theater some justice and do the proper and generally accepted thing and "lower those speaker locations"! wink.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #21 of 32
nflguy, stop trying not trying to do the extra work. Don't be sorry later.
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skytrooper View Post

nflguy, stop trying not trying to do the extra work. Don't be sorry later.

I agree with the above posters. In the end, you've got to do what you've got to do; but when you post here saying you're looking for additional advice, take heed to it. Here is a quick rule about most forums.

1) You'll get a lot of recommendations from others who have absolutely no experience in regards to what they are recommending; they are just passing the information along as here say. (Case in point regarding leaving speakers at current height) The problem with this is; most newcomers don't know the difference and make some unwise decisions that they regret later.

2) Don't ask a question if you're not prepared for the answer. You want to know the best route to go, you'll get it. But if you are not ready to put it into action, don't bother asking.


Making a poor decision on a piece of equipment is one thing. But when it comes to room planning, don't take the easy road. By the time your theater is complete, there is no way you are going to go through the mess and hassle of tearing up sheetrock, running new wires, etc; so you are going to leave it as is. It's a small headache now, to prevent a much larger one in the future.

There's my .02. wink.gif
post #23 of 32
Those are much better speakers - I've listened to their in-walls and I was impressed. Very efficient and very nice sound - for the extra money you are going to get a LOT better sound and your modest AVR will be able to drive them to much higher levels. I ended up going with Definitive Technology Ultimate In-Walls because they have sealed enclosures but those are nice speakers.

Now all you need to do is lower the front 3 speakers - it shouldn't cost that much and since you just painted it will be very easy to patch / paint if needed. Really, as mentioned before, you could leave the 3 front cover plates up high (and paint them to hide them) and just extend the wires to the 3 front speakers installed at the right height and you would be set. This should only take an hour - why are you worried about this? Just do it right and you will be happy!
post #24 of 32
I bet the installer subscribes to Mapleshade.
http://www.mapleshadestore.com/upgrades_speakerplacement.php

This is the #2 bullet from the above "speaker placement guide":
Nearly everybody sits too high. The "tweeters at ear level" rule sounds logical but almost always fails when tested. Every speaker has a different optimum listening height; if you’re off the optimum ear height, you’re not getting your money’s worth. Test by sitting on one, then two, then three phone books on the floor at your normal listening spot. At the optimum height, you’ll hear an amazing new warmth and fullness in baritone voice, trombones, tenor sax, plucked bass—and a far more natural treble balance.
post #25 of 32
My God that has to be the worst design ever. There is no way I would ever consider mounting speakers that high no matter how far they're angle down at me. I would do anything I could to get those speakers down to ear height. Heck if you're afraid of cutting into the wall and moving the outlets just go to Home Depot or something and get some wire covers for the wall and paint them the same color as your wall. I'd rather have to look at that instead of listening to sound come from the sky.
post #26 of 32
Sounds to me like the original poster is just wanting someone to say "yeah up high will be awesome" to justify the money he has spent paying an "expert" (idiot) for advice and install and justify again leaving them up high.
post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

Note: speaker height remains the same ... What do ya guys think?

I think your new person doesn't know any more than your previous person. biggrin.gif

Seriously, if you don't want to take our word for it, maybe you'll trust the experts who defined the standards for surround mixing and reproduction:

Grammy Surround Standards

--Ethan

From 2004 which is now becoming a decade ago.

Nothing about multiple subs.
post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

Sounds to me like the original poster is just wanting someone to say "yeah up high will be awesome" to justify the money he has spent paying an "expert" (idiot) for advice and install and justify again leaving them up high.

Looks to me like he could move some equipment in and actually listen to it...

IME what he seems to be aiming for is like "Soffit mounting" which is used in a lot of recording studios. I use it and so does a friend of mine who is far more sophisticated about speakers and room acoustics than I (or most posters here) will ever be.

Soffit mounting with the speakers aimed at the listeners ears can work.

http://www.mercenary.com/howdoitknbmo.html

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=66 (note the first poster)

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/11942-soffit-mounting-speakers-mastering.html (a critical viewpoint)
post #29 of 32
Thanks for a bit of sanity, Arny! You're the first to echo my first thoughts when reading post #1 - as long as he's sitting on-axis, there's a strong likelihood he'll hear what the speakers have to give.

nflguy
Life is full of compromises. This forum can make you aware of the tradeoffs, but the decision is yours. It may not be the same decision others would make, but they have their own HTs and make their own tradeoffs.

While I am surprised your builder set it up this way, I am not surprised you don't want to tear everything out. You have the right to trade off speaker placement for reduced mess. If you were a DIYer, it'd be different, but so would your question.

Have fun,
Frank
post #30 of 32
Boy some of these guys are really beating on you. My 2 cents.... And I'm only adding this because I just did it.... Is drop the speakers down. It is so so easy to do. Heres a couple pics to give you an idea of how to approach it.

You will hit a plate 2x4 at the ceiling to wall joint but just make a small square above and below. Make your cuts nice and neat and you can put them right back to patch things up. Wont even need drywall tape unless you cant get a piece of lath in a specific spot.

Look up patching drywall with lath on youtube if your not familiar. If you have any questions feel free to pm me and I can try to help through email.

Good luck whatever way you go.




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