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Could really use some input on what my set is doing (Panasonic ST30)

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Backstory: I've had this ST30 for about 2 years now, but have never really been able to get a picture out of it that I was happy with. I have an i1D3 and have spent a good deal of time at various points trying to get the picture to look right, but have just not had good success. I can get charts that look pretty good, but it doesn't translate to the picture looking as good as I think it should compared to some other (supposedly lesser) TV's I've tried to calibrate. I tend to notice the picture having kind of a reddish-green look to it, mostly noticeable with skin tones or things that are mostly off-white. This can be either just a greenish/red tint, or even red/green banding. I can see it in a greyscale ramp too, even when my white balance seems good. Brighter scenes look pretty good most of the time though, and it mostly seems to be in darker scenes, or more average scenes. I have tried calibrating through my HTPC with the AVSHD mp4 files (windows) while measuring with my laptop with Calman 5. I have also tried using HCFR and the image generator using just the HTPC itself with window sizes ranging from 5-15%. I have also tried using a disk version of AVSHD through my PS3 just to rule out the HTPC completely. The results I get with the i1D3 on other TV's or my computer monitors turn out great, so I have honestly been confused for a while as to why my TV just didn't seem right.





That is, until the latest version of ColorHCFR was released that allows for adjustable background level, and now I can finally put some numbers to what I'm experiencing.

This first image is with regular 5% windows. It's not the best thing ever, but everything over 10% is under dE3, and the average is right around 3, so I would expect that the picture would look pretty good for the most part, but instead, I get the issues that I mention previously. upping the window size to 10% or so doesn't change anything noticeably



This next one is 5% as well, but with a 20pt reading, You can see that it's maybe not quite as flat as 10pt shows, and that blue is a little bit lower in the middle than first thought, but still not to the extent that I feel that I'm seeing with the picture.



So here's where things get interesting. This is 5% windows with a 15% background level. I can't find the thread, but I seem to remember Zoyd coming to the conclusion that an APL somewhere in the 10-20% range might be a good representation of typical content, and so I just went with 15%. As you can see, blue just goes to ****.




So, I figure this is a much better representation of what I'm actually seeing, so I figure I'll try to calibrate to 5% windows with 15% background. This is the result:



I just left it like this for a couple of days to see how it would work out, and while some of the stuff I had noticed previously improved some, It seemed like it made other situations worse. Near black obviously had a blue tint to it as well, which was noticeable while setting brightness,

Today I went back to play around with it some more. I did 5% with a 30% background level just to see what it looked like, as well as doing regular windows, and I think I've decided that I'm just wasting my time.

this 5% windows with 30% background after adjusting for 5%/15%



5% windows after adjusting for 5%/15%




I'm honestly just out of ideas. Lord knows how much time I've spent over the last year trying to get this TV to look as good as i feel it should. Has anyone seen a Panasonic plasma do something like this? I'm hoping one of you more experienced guys might have some sort of strategy I could try, but I assume that I'm dealing with a defective set. If that's the case, does anyone have any idea what component I should be looking to replace?

Thanks in advance.




These were all done with the following settings, but I get similar results regardless of panel brightness or picture mode. I even made an attempt to calibrate Cinema using the SM, and got basically the same results. Tried a factory reset with no luck.

Picture mode: Custom
Contrast: +68
Brightness: +53
Color: +51
Tint: 0
Sharpness: +20
Color temp: Warm 2
Color mgmt: Off [grayed out]
Photo enhancement: [grayed out]
C.A.T.S.: Off
Video NR: Off

-- Pro settings
Color space: Normal
Black extension: 0
Gamma adjustment: 2.2
Panel brightness: Low
Contour emphasis: Off
AGC: 0

W/B settings: forget what the originals were, doesn't really matter I guess. Nothing weird, just a few ticks positive/negative on reds and blues and greens at 0. controls are 2pt.

-- Aspect adjustments submenu
Screen format: Full
HD size: Size 2
H size: [grayed out]
Zoom adjustments: [grayed out]

-- HDMI settings: non-standard

--Advanced picture submenu
3D Y/C filter: Off [grayed out]
Color matrix: HD [grayed out]
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion smoother: Off
Black level: Light
3:2 pulldown: On
24p Direct in: 60Hz
Edited by ttnuagmada - 7/13/13 at 2:20am
post #2 of 12
Sounds like you've had these problems from the very start and are only now getting frustrated enough to post here?
Obviously you've put a lot of thought and time into this, but maybe the best thing would be to just set everything back to the factory defaults, and start over.
Then maybe start by inputting Home Theater Magazine's ST30 calibrated review sample's settings they arrived at and see how it looks?
Then take it from there. Here's the link:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/panasonic-tc-p50st30-3d-plasma-hdtv-settings

I have the 2011 ST30 plasma myself and find the image it puts out as nothing less than superb!
And you're should be capable of the same I'd bet!
Good luck!
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
I did try a factory reset, and while the problem has always been there, I haven't been able to show exactly what the problem was before recently. Though I have actually talked about the red/green banding on this thing plenty of times. I also don't see how copying someone elses settings would do me any good. The problem is clearly that the white balance is all over the place depending on whats on the screen. I figure that whatever has the white balance controls is just wonky (A-board maybe?).
Edited by ttnuagmada - 7/13/13 at 2:55pm
post #4 of 12
Maybe so.
You mentioned the images having a 'greenish' tint to them which made me remember my display 'out of the box' (OOTB) which had the same thing - until I turned off that "Color Management" setting that defaults to a greenish cast for some odd reason! Also switching to 'Cinema', and the 'Warm 2' settings cured 90% of the OOTB ills.
You might be right about it having some basic problem that might require some 'board' switch out.
Best to call Panasonic's customer service and see what can be done...good luck!
post #5 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

I did try a factory reset, and while the problem has always been there, I haven't been able to show exactly what the problem was before recently. Though I have actually talked about the red/green banding on this thing plenty of times. I also don't see how copying someone elses settings would do me any good. The problem is clearly that the white balance is all over the place depending on whats on the screen. I figure that whatever has the white balance controls is just wonky (A-board maybe?).

Do you see the green tint problem in all content ? I had the ST30 used to see it from time to time always figured it was source related, your setting look pretty similar to my calibration ones. I think the lack of a cms shows itself in some cases, skin tones on my VT50 are much improved. Have you ever tried a spectro profile ?
post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Do you see the green tint problem in all content ? I had the ST30 used to see it from time to time always figured it was source related, your setting look pretty similar to my calibration ones. I think the lack of a cms shows itself in some cases, skin tones on my VT50 are much improved. Have you ever tried a spectro profile ?

It's more pronounced on lower quality stuff, but even on blu-rays I can see it, and it's always in lower APL scenes. Basically, the white balance of the 3rd shot I posted pretty closely resembles what I'm seeing.
post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

It's more pronounced on lower quality stuff, but even on blu-rays I can see it, and it's always in lower APL scenes. Basically, the white balance of the 3rd shot I posted pretty closely resembles what I'm seeing.

I know chad mentioned there where some st30s he had to really skew the color to get rid of the green tint maybe you have one of those sets ? You might PM him see if he has any ideas
post #8 of 12
Actually, I've been following this thread. I don't think what the OP is seeing is the same issue I saw on some ST30s.

I do have some suggestions, though. With Custom mode on the ST30, try changing HDMI content type to graphics. Then switch panel brightness to mid, because the "graphics" setting will reduce light output some. Use APL windows, 5% size, as you've been doing, but use an APL range of 18-25%. If you have a blue deficiency between 20-30%, don't rely solely on the cuts to get it out, because you'll end up with bluish shadow detail as you described. Live with a slight excess of blue in the lower and upper range along with maybe just the remnants of the slight lack of blue from 20-30%, and you'll be able to find a good balance. Remember that an excess of blue, especially in the brighter areas of the white balance, is much more palatable than a lack of blue.

The ST30, like the VT30 and GT30, is fussy about certain things like how long you have patterns up (fatigue), what you display right before a measurement run, pattern delay, etc.
Edited by Chad B - 7/17/13 at 7:40am
post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the response Chad. I forgot to mention, but I went through all of the HDMI content modes on both mid and low panel when I was doing this, and they don't seem to have any real effect on it. With graphics/mid-panel, the blue dip is actually a little more pronounced. Hopefully I'll have some time this weekend to try your suggestions with the APL range and W/B controls.

As far as fatigue and pattern delay etc, what's the best thing to do prior to reading a step? I usually will just flip over to the DVR for 5-10 seconds, and then flip back for each step. Is this a good idea, or should I blank the screen instead? Also, I've noticed what you mean by the fatigue, in that the numbers can change some after a few seconds. Should I be adjusting based on the initial numbers, or the numbers that it settles into?
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

As far as fatigue and pattern delay etc, what's the best thing to do prior to reading a step? I usually will just flip over to the DVR for 5-10 seconds, and then flip back for each step. Is this a good idea, or should I blank the screen instead? Also, I've noticed what you mean by the fatigue, in that the numbers can change some after a few seconds. Should I be adjusting based on the initial numbers, or the numbers that it settles into?

Back when I was doing a bunch of 30 series, I used a scrolling bar from my generator. However, I've since changed to just blanking the screen.
Yes, it seems that it takes 2.5-3 seconds to stabilize, and then after another period of time it starts changing again (maybe a minute or less, I never actually timed it). I would take the reading after the initial 2.5-3 second settling time but without lingering too much over that.
post #11 of 12
I saw the same on the GT30. Stable for a bit, then it would start changing on you. I used about the same display time for each pattern then take a reading, if I needed a break or wanted to wipe the screen, I'd just put a full field pattern for a little bit (20-30% stimulus), then go back to measuring.
post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Actually, I've been following this thread. I don't think what the OP is seeing is the same issue I saw on some ST30s.

I do have some suggestions, though. With Custom mode on the ST30, try changing HDMI content type to graphics. Then switch panel brightness to mid, because the "graphics" setting will reduce light output some. Use APL windows, 5% size, as you've been doing, but use an APL range of 18-25%. If you have a blue deficiency between 20-30%, don't rely solely on the cuts to get it out, because you'll end up with bluish shadow detail as you described. Live with a slight excess of blue in the lower and upper range along with maybe just the remnants of the slight lack of blue from 20-30%, and you'll be able to find a good balance. Remember that an excess of blue, especially in the brighter areas of the white balance, is much more palatable than a lack of blue.

The ST30, like the VT30 and GT30, is fussy about certain things like how long you have patterns up (fatigue), what you display right before a measurement run, pattern delay, etc.

You always come thru Chad smile.gif
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