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Better for movie dialogue -- LCR or just LR with phantom center? - Page 3

post #61 of 71
Surprising to me how many folks haven't read their AVR\Pre-Pro manuals regarding the processing modes
post #62 of 71
Yeah me too... I always use PLIIx to get 7.1 from 2.0 to 5.1 channel sources like DVD's, Blu-Rays and HDTV programming. PLIIx does a great job, infact if I take a movie that's in 7.1 DTS HD MA and another movie that is in 5.1 DTS HD MA other than looking on the box I couldn't tell you which one was 5.1 and which one was 7.1. To me it sounds great and I can't hear anything bad and it does nothing to the existing channels it keeps them the same it just uses algorithims to create surround back channels.

I listen to all music CD's and FM radio on Stereo Mode. I only use surround on music if its like a concert DVD or Blu-ray and its in 5.1 or 7.1.
post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Surprising to me how many folks haven't read their AVR\Pre-Pro manuals regarding the processing modes

That's because a lot of people on here are ONLY interested in the science...not the FUN...smile.gif
post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

...I listen to all music CD's and FM radio on Stereo Mode. I only use surround on music if its like a concert DVD or Blu-ray and its in 5.1 or 7.1.

+ 1, adding also MC for SACD/DVD-A though.
post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avliner View Post

Sorry for being a bit OT, but could you tell me what's the basic difference between DPL IIx Music and Cinema??
PLII is limited to 2-channel sources and 5 outputs/speakers. PLIIx is PLII expanded to 7 channels, and can be applied to 5.1 sources as well.

With 2-channel sources:

PLIIx Cinema extracts full centre and surrounds.

PLIIx Music lets you adjust both those extractions to your tastes.

With 5.1-channel sources:

PLIIx Cinema extracts surround-back information from the surround channels and then cancels that information from the surround channels. For movies/TV, this emphasizes rear-vs-side separation and directionality in the surround field.

PLIIx Music extracts surround-back information from the surround channels but doesn't cancel that information from the surround channels. For multi-channel music, this emphasizes rear-vs-side blending and envelopment in the surround field.
post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Sorry to get technical but I'm assuming you're talking about PLIIx which is a big improvement over the non-x version.
PLII, PLIIx and PLIIz all use the same surround processing algorithm but output different number of channels (5, 7 & 9 respectively).
post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

How do you personally set up your PLII in your system?
I use a proprietary surround processing mode on my old Lexicon processor, but have experimented with PLII/PLIIx over the years to configure it for my tastes.

For the centre, I like full extraction. When I hear a human voice produced in real life, it doesn't sound like a dual-mono comb-filtering phantom image, instead sounding like a mono point-source. When when I listen to vocals reproduced at home, I prefer to hear them as mono point-sources, just like I do in real life.

I'll admit I'm in a minority when it comes to centre extraction. A friend who orignally worked on PLII likes to extract just enough centre output to ameliorate the normal comb filtering you get from 2-speaker playback. This ends up spreading centre content evenly to the L/C/R speakers (1/3 to each). Since I'm not a fan of dual-mono playback, I like triple-mono even less, hence the full centre extraction. But most people I know like to set the centre extraction somewhere between full and phantom.

I use my surround processor 90% of the time to listen to 2-channel music in surround (been listening that way for almost a quarter century). Movies are a distant second priority. With that in mind, I like to dial in the surround extraction so that it widens the soundstage but doesn't sound like surround sound. It's subtle enough that it never calls attention to the surround speakers. Most people that visit don't realize I'm using surround processing until I turn it off and the soundfield collapses to the front soundstage.

So, full centre extraction, subtle surround extraction. YMMV.
post #68 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

When I hear a human voice produced in real life, it doesn't sound like a dual-mono comb-filtering phantom image, instead sounding like a mono point-source. When when I listen to vocals reproduced at home, I prefer to hear them as mono point-sources, just like I do in real life.

It's a good example of one of those "no best solution compromises". Yes, a singe point-source best replicates a voice; but it places all voices at the speaker location (which is unlikely to replicate the scene being watched most of the time).

Technically: I hear almost all real things as a point source; not just voices.
post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I use a proprietary surround processing mode on my old Lexicon processor, but have experimented with PLII/PLIIx over the years to configure it for my tastes.

For the centre, I like full extraction. When I hear a human voice produced in real life, it doesn't sound like a dual-mono comb-filtering phantom image, instead sounding like a mono point-source. When when I listen to vocals reproduced at home, I prefer to hear them as mono point-sources, just like I do in real life.

I'll admit I'm in a minority when it comes to centre extraction. A friend who orignally worked on PLII likes to extract just enough centre output to ameliorate the normal comb filtering you get from 2-speaker playback. This ends up spreading centre content evenly to the L/C/R speakers (1/3 to each). Since I'm not a fan of dual-mono playback, I like triple-mono even less, hence the full centre extraction. But most people I know like to set the centre extraction somewhere between full and phantom.

I use my surround processor 90% of the time to listen to 2-channel music in surround (been listening that way for almost a quarter century). Movies are a distant second priority. With that in mind, I like to dial in the surround extraction so that it widens the soundstage but doesn't sound like surround sound. It's subtle enough that it never calls attention to the surround speakers. Most people that visit don't realize I'm using surround processing until I turn it off and the soundfield collapses to the front soundstage.

So, full centre extraction, subtle surround extraction. YMMV.

Very nice.

I tried PLII last night when watching a 2.0 Netflix show. It works perfectly as you say. I notice that the dialogue only goes to the Center speaker. The L/R speakers get their own sound, but no dialogue goes to the L/R at all. It sounded more natural than watching in stereo mode. Very nice. biggrin.gif

For music I use stereo, but I did play around w/ PLII Music just for fun. When I set the Center Width to max (7), I did not hear any music from the Center speaker at all. When I set to min (0), the center speaker gets plenty of music.

I could see how it might be fun listening to the different DSP modes. biggrin.gif

I went back to stereo 2.3 (Audyssey Flat + DEQ), but I may listen in 7CH stereo or PLII Music some days just for fun. smile.gif
post #70 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

For music I use stereo, but I did play around w/ PLII Music just for fun. When I set the Center Width to max (7), I did not hear any music from the Center speaker at all. When I set to min (0), the center speaker gets plenty of music.
For people used to listening to music with 2 speakers, keeping the Centre Width to MAX is a good introduction to surround processing, since it maintains the phantom centre they are used to and extracts only the subtlest of surround information. From there, you can experiment with centre extraction to find how what sounds "right" to you.
post #71 of 71
I would think most all of us have gone to Movie Theaters and thereby heard dedicated centers and 9.2 setups.
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