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Dual SI D4 18's + EP4000 Amp Questions

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
I'm configuring the dip switches for my Behringer EP4000 AMP to use with my 2x 4cuft sealed boxes flat packs.
Once i have done that i'm ready to test each speaker.
I just want to be sure of my settings......


Amp:
Bridged
1-10 off (Left)
2-9 on (Right)

Channel 1 knob good up to 100%
Channel 2 know set to 0%

And with this wiring configuration:

http://m.seimg.net/product/img/subwoofer_wiring/2_subs_DVC_4_ohm_2ch_bridged.jpg
or should i be doing
http://m.seimg.net/product/img/subwoofer_wiring/2_subs_DVC_2_ohm_2ch.jpg


Thanks
Urlryn
post #2 of 34

You can wire each driver as 2ohms and run a single sub off one channel on the amp. The other option is to wire both drivers as 4ohms and run the amp bridged which I think is the same as 2ohm stereo.

 

This is how my dip switches are setup to run at 2ohm stereo

post #3 of 34
Thread Starter 
ok that was wierd on previous post..made 4 duplicate.

anyway

Thanks!

Testing each speaker before i actually mount then in the box and that is looking pretty good.

Now one last questions on the channel gain nobs.
Under this setup...each one controlled independently.....so when i turn them up toward 100% the SIG light flickers yellow or becomes pretty constant yellow. This is normal correct? as long as i don't see the red clip ones.

Urlryn
post #4 of 34
I would wire them for a bridged load. The EP puts out more power in that state.
post #5 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urlryn View Post


Now one last questions on the channel gain nobs.
Under this setup...each one controlled independently.....so when i turn them up toward 100% the SIG light flickers yellow or becomes pretty constant yellow. This is normal correct? as long as i don't see the red clip ones.

Urlryn

Correct. Yellow means the amp is seeing a signal. The stronger the signal, the more the yellow lights up. Red is clipping.
post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Correct. Yellow means the amp is seeing a signal. The stronger the signal, the more the yellow lights up. Red is clipping.

Yep and you can clip the crap out of the ep4000 without hurting it, at least that was my experience. I'm not saying it's a good thing to clip it all the time but it's nice to know it can take a beating.
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Yep and you can clip the crap out of the ep4000 without hurting it, at least that was my experience. I'm not saying it's a good thing to clip it all the time but it's nice to know it can take a beating.

It's not the amp you have to worry about as much as the drivers. wink.gif
post #8 of 34
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the information!

now i have a new issue......

wired everything....started mounting the drivers in. with previous recommendations i used 3/4 socket cap screws and t-nuts.
first box all good.

Second box...last screw got stuck...tried to undo it but think the damage was done. So got a allen wrench and tapped it a few times with a hammer and now its spinning freely.
Was able to wedge the speaker up a little bit to see....and sure enough the tnut broke out of its spot. all the mdf still glued to it.

So whats is the best way to drill out one of these?
Best way to repair the hole...bondo? or something else?


Urlryn
Edited by Urlryn - 7/20/13 at 5:10pm
post #9 of 34

Try pulling on the bolt and turning it at the same time. If thats not possible then try using a drill on high. Next time use hurricane nuts.

post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

It's not the amp you have to worry about as much as the drivers. wink.gif

Oh, will he not be amp limited? In that case be careful.
post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Try pulling on the bolt and turning it at the same time. If thats not possible then try using a drill on high. Next time use hurricane nuts.

Or better yet, spax/drywall screws. There is no reason to over engineer the mounting with these subs. I've yet to have a drywall screw back out.

Unless you plan on R&Ring the driver 8,000,000 times, KISS.
post #12 of 34
Thread Starter 
Yeah i'm tried pretty much everything at this point.....

The problem is when i put in the t-nuts i glued them to the wood to give them additional support so this wouldn't happen.
But basically the wood broke off with the t-nut....so the mdf is stuck to it and can't see the prongs for it to wedge anything while you pull up.

I was able to wedge the speaker up enough to see and took one of my 42" clamps and use the metal end to try and use that as leverage or catch the edge while unscrewing. but wasn't very successful.

so looks like either i need to invest in a dremel and grind the head off the screw or something but with the limited space i don't want to wreck the speaker.
So thinking of drilling into the screw itself. start with 1/8th and keep getting bigger but i'm worried that the screw will just spin while drilling.

Had to be the last damn screw..lol go figure!

Urlryn
post #13 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Or better yet, spax/drywall screws. There is no reason to over engineer the mounting with these subs. I've yet to have a drywall screw back out.

Unless you plan on R&Ring the driver 8,000,000 times, KISS.

lol yeah...i am thinking i should of just used all those drywall ones i had. I was going through other builds and taking the best of them.
Reason i went with the caps was just in case i needed to remove/repair or something down the road. Maybe i didnt' seal the box right or something.
So was just being overcautious!

hehe
post #14 of 34
Thread Starter 
so picked up a dremel kit....maybe i can cut the head off the screw but....scared of messing up the speaker itself.
With such limited spacing to work with between the edge of the recess and the speaker...not to mention trying to cut it with the darn gasket still on.

Maybe some of you pro's have some options or suggestions that may help?

Urlryn
post #15 of 34
Use a drill bit the same diameter as the shaft of the bolt/screw and just drill the head off. Done it a million times with striped screws. Once the head pops off you can lift off the driver and use pliers.
post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post

Use a drill bit the same diameter as the shaft of the bolt/screw and just drill the head off. Done it a million times with striped screws. Once the head pops off you can lift off the driver and use pliers.

+ 1

drill out the head of the screw. safest way to do it. may have to get some needle nose under it to hold it still. epoxy the t-nut in to avoid it coming out.
post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post

Done it a million times with striped screws.

Those are a pain. Only ones worse to mess with are those darn polka dot ones. biggrin.gif
post #18 of 34
Thread Starter 
This is just not my weekend.....drilling out the damn nut....the bit broke inside it!
though on the good side i think i drilled out a bit deeper than needed and so i can probably push that down out of the way to finish. I hope!
post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Yep and you can clip the crap out of the ep4000 without hurting it, at least that was my experience. I'm not saying it's a good thing to clip it all the time but it's nice to know it can take a beating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

It's not the amp you have to worry about as much as the drivers. wink.gif

I've experienced some odd, inexplicable behavior with the EP4000 under some clipping situations. Subsequently, upon poking around and reading other users descriptions of similar issues, I've become quite suspect of it's ability to control the cone under such scenarios. It would appear as if it has the potential to lose all damping control of cone movement and unexpected hard bottoming could result during these episodes of clipping.

Still, it's well vetted, represents solid value, and possesses an extended response into the bottom octaves. Like all equipment, I'd recommend operating it within it's linear envelope. Headroom, ... once again.


Good luck
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post


I've experienced some odd, inexplicable behavior with the EP4000 under some clipping situations. Subsequently, upon poking around and reading other users descriptions of similar issues, I've become quite suspect of it's ability to control the cone under such scenarios. It would appear as if it has the potential to lose all damping control of cone movement and unexpected hard bottoming could result during these episodes of clipping.

Still, it's well vetted, represents solid value, and possesses an extended response into the bottom octaves. Like all equipment, I'd recommend operating it within it's linear envelope. Headroom, ... once again.


Good luck

Interesting. Sounds like I'm better with a single CV 5000 as opposed to 2 ep4000's. When my CV clips I hear a high pitched chirping sound from the drivers but nothing extreme and other than that nothing close to any kind of hint of strain from the drivers. Granted that hardly happens... actually it's only happened during a demo when I'm getting crazy.

the Captivator driver(s) must be pretty tough, I never heard any kind of bad sound when driving it (and later duals) to clipping levels (ha, and beyond). The only thing close to a bad sound I ever heard was when plugging one of the ports you could hear some port turbulence or whatever it's called if pushed to clipping the amp levels on very low freq content with no HPF.
post #21 of 34
Thread Starter 
Well at least I'm back on track.....got the speaker removed undamaged and then repaired all the damage to the box!
Just need to retouch a few nicks of the Duratex.......and hopefully I can get a replacement mounting gasket. Its not to bad...but that slight OCD in me would be driven crazy.
I emailed Stereo Integrity a to find out the cost for a new one but haven't heard anything back yet...so the speaker will just sit till i can get that gasket replaced! frown.gif

As for the EP4000.....can you explain a little bit more?
Is the concern for the 2 speakers running off the single amp causing it to clip? or the amp itself? the wiring configuration?
If i'm setting something wrong can anybody recommend what I should be doing instead?

Thanks
Urlryn
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urlryn View Post

As for the EP4000.....can you explain a little bit more?
Is the concern for the 2 speakers running off the single amp causing it to clip? or the amp itself? the wiring configuration?
If i'm setting something wrong can anybody recommend what I should be doing instead?

Thanks
Urlryn


Too much signal voltage to the amp from your controller causes clipping. The amp runs as hard as the signal voltage you provide until the amps internal power supply runs out of power, and then it clips. If your amp is clipping turn down the controller and/or the attenuation knobs on the front of the EP4000 until the red lights stay out.

At some point reading into gain structure will be a fruitful endeavour once your system is not clipping and safe, to wring every drop of performance out of the system.
post #23 of 34
Thread Starter 
Ahhh ok i understand now.

Thankfully I haven't seen any clips yet but then again i haven't gotten to put them to good workout yet!
post #24 of 34
Thread Starter 
Ok.....I'm getting nearly no bass from both of my 18's subs. They barely flinch while playing Tron Legacy.

Currently AMP dip switches are set to:

1 and 10 Left
2 through 9 is Right

Wiring of the AMP/SUB/REC:

Right now just 2 basic RCA from Receiver sub1 and Receiver sub2 to the AMP input 1 and AMP input 2.

Speakers are wired up as shown here:
http://m.seimg.net/product/img/subwoofer_wiring/2_subs_DVC_4_ohm_2ch_bridged.jpg

both sub-woofers black are connected to OUTPUT 1 black on AMP
Red1 not used
both sub-woofers red are connected to OUTPUT 2 red on AMP
Black2 not used
Edited by Urlryn - 8/5/13 at 6:43pm
post #25 of 34
Have you tried raising the gain up on the amp and the sub trim on the receiver?
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urlryn View Post

Ok.....I'm getting nearly no bass from both of my 18's subs. They barely flinch while playing Tron Legacy.

Currently AMP dip switches are set to:

1 and 10 Left
2 through 9 is Right

Wiring of the AMP/SUB/REC:

Right now just 2 basic RCA from Receiver sub1 and Receiver sub2 to the AMP input 1 and AMP input 2.

Speakers are wired up as shown here:
http://m.seimg.net/product/img/subwoofer_wiring/2_subs_DVC_4_ohm_2ch_bridged.jpg

both subwoofers black are connected to input 1 black on AMP
Red1 not used
both subwoofer red are connected to input 3 red on AMP
Black2 not used

Urlryn

If I'm reading that correctly, your DIP switches are set to bridged mode, but your wiring is completely mental. How can you get anything out of your subs when the drivers are connected to the amp's inputs? And, WTF is input 3?

In bridged mode for the EP4000, the two positive output terminal are used. OUTPUT1 + is driver positive and OUTPUT2 + is driver negative.
Just look at the back panel, next to the binding posts, and you should see the words "Bridged" and "Mono" with little lightning bolts pointing to the proper posts.

I'm going by this thread's title and am assuming you have an EP4000. If you don't, then it might be a good idea to tell us which amp you have.
Edited by Oliver Deplace - 8/5/13 at 5:53pm
post #27 of 34
Thread Starter 
Dang it! Thanks for pointing out the input/output typo! I Fixed it. And yes its a EP4000.

Got it resolved though....I removed all the speaker connections and started adding them 1x1.

Seems when I connected the cable from the Receivers SUB2 (pre-out) to the INPUT2 on the AMP....the speakers stopped producing high level of sound.
Once I removed that cable....then both speakers started working just fine.


Urlryn
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Deplace View Post

........
In bridged mode for the EP4000, the two positive output terminal are used. OUTPUT1 + is driver positive and OUTPUT2 + is driver negative.
Just look at the back panel, next to the binding posts, and you should see the words "Bridged" and "Mono" with little lightning bolts pointing to the proper posts.

I'm going by this thread's title and am assuming you have an EP4000. If you don't, then it might be a good idea to tell us which amp you have.

 

 

sorry to hijack this thread.....

 

I was planning to use the EP4000 in bridged mode, outputting 4 Ohm, and with the SpeakOn connectors, not the posts. Now it seems that it may require some internal rewiring. Is this correct?

If so, could someone please give me some pointers what exactly would need to be changed?

_____

Axel

post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post


sorry to hijack this thread.....

I was planning to use the EP4000 in bridged mode, outputting 4 Ohm, and with the SpeakOn connectors, not the posts. Now it seems that it may require some internal rewiring. Is this correct?
If so, could someone please give me some pointers what exactly would need to be changed?
_____
Axel

You must connect the speaker wire to the inside of the Speakon, but that's no different than any other scheme.
You use the Output One Speakon (4 pole) and wire the cable mounted Speakon according to the info on the back panel. Ignore Output Two (2 pole).

Basically, it's the same scheme as the binding posts, in that you only use the positive outputs, Just be aware of the Speakon pin-out (see diagrams). Use terminals 1+ and 2+.


Edited by Oliver Deplace - 8/6/13 at 5:06am
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Deplace View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post


sorry to hijack this thread.....

I was planning to use the EP4000 in bridged mode, outputting 4 Ohm, and with the SpeakOn connectors, not the posts. Now it seems that it may require some internal rewiring. Is this correct?
If so, could someone please give me some pointers what exactly would need to be changed?
_____
Axel

You must connect the speaker wire to the inside of the Speakon, but that's no different than any other scheme.
You use the Output One Speakon (4 pole) and wire the cable mounted Speakon according to the info on the back panel. Ignore Output Two (2 pole).

Basically, it's the same scheme as the binding posts, in that you only use the positive outputs, Just be aware of the Speakon pin-out (the Speakon should be marked).

 

Got it, thanks Oliver! I had missed the part that Output 1 was 4 pole.

 

I plan to use these 2-conductor monoprice speakon cables with NL4FC connectors . Would this kind of cable still work? I think I would need to swap one of the wires inside the connector, i.e. move 1- to 2+, while leaving 1+ as is, correct? I hope I can open the connector easily....

 

_____

Axel

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