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Why do we keep buying Onkyo if its such a piece of garbage brand. No opinion pure fact. - Page 6

post #151 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

M. Code no one at all cares about your 0.02 cents. Stop coming to this topic if all you feel like doing is making arrogant statements. I'm sure there's another forum where you can give those pennies of thoughts that people will respect but it definitely isn't here.

Really no one cares about mcodes experiences with onkyo/integra?! What evidence do you have to support this claim? rolleyes.gif


Personally I care about what he says regarding the onkyo issues. Look at this way, you have one customer to few dozens of customers with issues who voice their problems on avs. Next you have an installer which I am sure could provide enough supporting evidence if he chooses, that says his company has installed dozens and dozens if not hundred, maybe even into the thousands of onkyo/integra avrs with virtually no issues. then the same installer offers guidance and suggestions on proper placement and cooling needs of the avr. is it not possible that the majority are satisfied and have no issues? the evidence provided by mcode certainly seems to lean this way. if he chooses to provided customer install numbers vs issues on all onkyo/integra installs in say the last 5 years, that would certainly weigh heavily towards his claims. I also like the fact that he pointed out that if his company were out their fixing/troubleshotting/replacing onkyo/integra installs he'd drop onkyo/integra because he don't make money on warranty service.

Yeah it sucks to be burnt by any product, it happens. It is an unfortunate fact of life. Making blanket statements with no supporting evidence other then ones singular experience does not mean much to the overall whole. I feel for the ones bunt on onkyo's, really I do. but it also seems that the issues have been blown way out of proportion. People love to bitch on the interwebs, rarely do they praise.

Someone mentioned that onkyo requested pics of how avr's were installed - and all they got was silence...why? A likely answer could be that people as a whole want to lay blame for their mistakes or failures - intended or accidental - on anyone or thing other then themselves. Onkyo seems to be handling the warranty issues as they arise, maybe not as best as they could, but i see an attempt on their end - generally they will fix or replace the avr's as has been stated multiple times on avs and elsewhere. Do they or have they always gotten in right...no...but is it the fault of the repair centers or was the unit involved in a shipping mishap so when the customer got the unit back it didn't work right and they blamed a faulty repair? that is just one of numerous possibilities as to why some repairs were not perceived as being done properly.

Onkyo certainly is a hot button on avs right now, but it wasn't that long ago that it was denon with their xx10 to xx12 models suffering network card failures. All these devices are made cheaply, and we as consumers do suffer from that, but that is a by-product for the disposable society that we live in. Responsible consumers are able to research and decide for themselves what products are best suited for their needs and what risk factor they may want to take on. Threads like this do help somewhat in shedding light on onkyo issues, but once it has been analyzed and put into some objective perspective it can be easily seen that the risk factor is low and there is a safety net (warranty service) in place should something to wrong.
post #152 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

There are some threads on AVS that you just know you should never visit as you're certain to be subjected to text that simply doesn't stand up to even a cursory application of proper statistical verification/scrutiny, objective dialog, and worst, common sense. This thread violates all three within the first page and yet I return anyway.

so shame on me. confused.gif

Can one not understand why these assertions lack any credibility without valid, comparative statistical evidence? Really?

Can one not comprehend that by simply instilling ANY AVR manufacturer's name along with the word "problem" or "repair" in a Google search window and viewing the THOUSANDS of links for ANY of them realize that indicates how assumptions on the comparative reliability of brand "x" is borderline insane? Really?

Can one not understand that dozens- even hundreds- of "complaints" on AVS not yield valid distinctions amongst devices produced in the MILLIONS by a myriad of manufacturers? Really?

It is a shame that some are really confident that this thread accomplishes anything other than establishing a whipping post by those "wronged" by Onkyo...and yet another avenue for pointless argumentative banter on AVS.

So then, let's have one for Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer Sony, and every other AVR producer so their dozens of befallen customers can have their say. With any luck we can successfully grow a mob mentality against every one of them!

It's only fair, after all.

sighs. Out loud.

James

Just wanted to say I appreciate your thoughts regarding the onkyo issues as presented here. earlier in this thread I attempted to express the same sort of though process/analyzing of the actual problems, but you have been able to present it in a much better way then i was able to.
post #153 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

M. Code no one at all cares about your 0.02 cents. Stop coming to this topic if all you feel like doing is making arrogant statements. I'm sure there's another forum where you can give those pennies of thoughts that people will respect but it definitely isn't here.

Semp1...
Thanks for reminding me.. You are correct.. 😖
$0.02 is too cheap for postive, objective information, so in the future we will raise it to $0.05....
Thanks again.. 👊

Just my $0.05.... 👍😉
post #154 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

If the problem is due to lack of ventilation and not poor components, then how do you explain so many failures of the HDMI board? Why would lack of adequate ventilation effect the HDMI board much more than everything else?

I had an Onkyo fail on me and I didn't have 4" of clearance on each side so the problem may have been prevented with adequate ventilation, but none of my 8 or so receivers outside of a couple in my basement get adequate ventilation because I keep them inside of an entertainment center with doors and they haven't failed. My wife forces me to put all my stuff out of sight, so adequate ventilation isn't an option. Maybe I'm at fault, but given the option of buying a receiver that breaks if inadequate ventilation is used vs one that won't break, I'll skip the Onkyo's and get something else.

Did you see the note in the manual about the rear 'EXIT' room required?
It actually calls for 8" on each side for a 3007/3008 and I don't remember the distance in the rear. The manual also mentions if you cannot provide the area needed in the rear to use and external fan to move the heat.
post #155 of 192
At the old age of 53 I have been buying A/V equipment since I was 16, the only receiver or amp that I have ever had die on me before I upgraded was an Onkyo - HDMI board. Honestly, that one failure doesn't mean I wouldn't buy another one of their products, they make some good ones including my HD-DVD player that I bought on close-out at a great price (I have 60 of those shiny disks so yes I still have a player(s). Talk about someone with an axe to grind. So glad I found this thread for some light Friday afternoon reading. Good thing thread starters can't ban members - M Code you'd be toast, probably Bill too and a few others smile.gif
post #156 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

2. HDMI Connectors on the PCB
These are fragile, one cannot pull or tug on HDMI cables once inserted into the connector. As they can twist the HDMI connector assembly and break loose its circuit board soldered connections. Also hevay weight HDMI cables should be avoided again they put significant stress on the connector and circuit board connections.

Just my $0.02... 👍😉

Connectors are all secured via screws to the chassis. There is no wiggling of the HDMI receptacle. Open one and see.
There should not be any additional stress on the solder joints because the HDMI shield case should be the one taking the weight and its metal...

One other note regarding the HDMI failures- if you have been following you would know Onkyo has revised a voltage regulator on the HDMI boards.
One would have to assume, the HDMi board failures are caused by marginal issues caused by this.
This is not something I would hang a company over- you can never cover all 100% of operational scenarios when designing anything. It seems in a good # of cases, Onkyo has been doing the repair for Original purchasers of A stock material.
Edited by calimark - 9/6/13 at 1:59pm
post #157 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by calimark View Post

Connectors are all secured via screws to the chassis. There is no wiggling of the HDMI receptacle. Open one and see.
There should not be any additional stress on the solder joints because the HDMI shield case should be the one taking the weight and its metal...

One other note regarding the HDMI failures- if you have been following you would know Onkyo has revised a voltage regulator on the HDMI boards.
One would have to assume, the HDMi board failures are caused by marginal issues caused by this.
This is not something I would hang a company over- you can never cover all 100% of operational scenarios when designing anything. It seems in a good # of cases, Onkyo has been doing the repair for Original purchasers of A stock material.

Each HDMI connector has an "L" elbow metal tab that is fastened to the rear panel with a single screw..
This is not the major issue..
Inside the HDMI connector is a black fiber divider that has its connections, similar to a USB connector. The issue is the thickness of the black fiber divider within the HDMI connector on the AVR, it has the proper tolerances however many, many HDMI cables have molded this slot within the connector too small... So that when the HDMI cable with the wrong tolerance, smaller interal slot is inserted, it is forced into the connector and corrupts the connections and proper spacing. So the actual problem was in the faulty design/manufacturing of the HDMI cable/connector, since this is done in primarily China the majority of brands source from there. I am told this has been corrected by the major cable brands including Monster.

Another HDMI issue as mentioned previously is the heat generated by the video processor, since these chips are overclocked they run very hot...
Another reason why the AVR needs adequate free-air clearance of @ least 4" for the L/R sides and top cover.. One other update Onkyo/Integra has done is that they have upgraded to a more expensive PCB glass fiber material (G10) that can better withstand the increased heat.

If you have a chance look at the PCB that includes the HDMI Tx/Rx, video DSP, as well as the (3) TI audio DSPs and DACs plus the controller. Onkyo/Integra like other major AVR brands including Denon, Marantz, HK, Yamaha have chosen to mount all of the crucial video and audio processors on a single PCB board to save $ @ time of factory assembly... But the downside is the PCB and all of its processors is now very pricey, which is one reason the brand schoose to fix the existing PCBs rather than exchanging these out.

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
post #158 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

At the old age of 53 I have been buying A/V equipment since I was 16, the only receiver or amp that I have ever had die on me before I upgraded was an Onkyo - HDMI board. Honestly, that one failure doesn't mean I wouldn't buy another one of their products, they make some good ones including my HD-DVD player that I bought on close-out at a great price (I have 60 of those shiny disks so yes I still have a player(s). Talk about someone with an axe to grind. So glad I found this thread for some light Friday afternoon reading. Good thing thread starters can't ban members - M Code you'd be toast, probably Bill too and a few others smile.gif


😂😂

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
post #159 of 192
+1 I have had mine just as long bought it as an open box, I have not had one problem.
People need to stop sitting things on top of the recievers and stop putting them in a cramped tv rack.
Mine has always sat out on in the open on the top of a OPEN audio rack.
post #160 of 192
Purchased my Onkyo 805 receiver in 2008 still going strong. No problems.
post #161 of 192
m code,

Why do you keep saying 4" on each side? Which model calls for that?
3007/08 call for 8" per side.

Am glad to see you agree that there isn't anything crazy about the HDMI connectors on the unit and that issue probably lies with the actual cables.
post #162 of 192
My TX-NR3008 was on the top shelf of my equipment rack, so plenty of space above it. And I had at least 8 inches open on either side. That didn't stop the HDMI board from failing twice. Onkyo replaced it with a TX-NR3010 (for which I'm thankful). I'm hoping that the 3010 will last longer than the 3008 did!

Seems like HDMI is nothing but trouble. If it isn't overheating HDMI chips, it's handshake issues [okay, that's HDCP] or loose/bad-fitting HDMI plugs.
post #163 of 192
Thread Starter 
Listen. I'm just frustrated with the fact that I was dumb enough to buy a 707 have it fail and still buy a 709. I saw how many failures there were across all of Onkyo's lines from that year about 18 months later. Knowing that, I had a feeling onkyo would have and still will have more failures to come since it seems like a failure that comes from extended use. Which also meant they most likely used the same boards in the x08 and x09 models since even they couldnt predict such an obvious failure rate with those hdmi boards used and most likely the models following since it took a while for the issue to pop up. I'm mad at myself for not trusting my instinct and just buying a Denon for the living room. Instead I said let me go with onkyo again since they offer such a good value. Never again. For now on I'm paying more for Denon. Whether or not they have a few failures here and there its nothing when compared to onkyo. The evidence is in the forums. Not just here every forum including their own. It's cluttered with failed hdmi or "no sound" issues. Clearly this is Onkyo's main problem. I'm sorry but its not normal any one with two eyes and the ability to read can see that.
post #164 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by calimark View Post

m code,

Why do you keep saying 4" on each side? Which model calls for that?
3007/08 call for 8" per side.
In our tech training install classes/videos we recommend a minimum of 4" for the L/R sides and top cover. Though Onkyo/Integra recommends at least 8" and some brands even more...
We know that for most installs and cabinets this exceeds what is usually available. Note that in my past AVS posts for the last several years we have noted the need of free-air clearance, plus no stacking of components on top and possible shortening of the components reliability and life...
Yet still many, many users continue to debate this specification...
Typically they complain when the unit fails, but they have little or no adherence to it...
Just like when we requested the users who have had units that failed to post any photos of their install as to verify they followed this crucial free-air clearance specification. The response was zippo.. We can't fix ignorance...
Quote:
Am glad to see you agree that there isn't anything crazy about the HDMI connectors on the unit and that issue probably lies with the actual cables.
I went into more detail as most of these facts are not disclosed to the general public... Who would think to blame Monster cable for a faulty HDMI connector, instead they blame the AVR. Unfortunately in our fast & furious home theater market place since many, many products are purchased over the internet and/or from big box sellers that have little or no install expertise so when something fails... Most returns are blown off, or simply referred to the nearest factory authorized service center where another debate is started.. Then the user comes to an internet forum as a sounding board to expose his negative product experience and poor handling by the brand...

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
post #165 of 192
After two Onkyo products my answer became clear. I didn't. And I switched to Yamaha. Never looked back (although I really disliked their non upgrading policy for Airplay functionality on the RX-A3010, considering it was their flagship unit when they started shipping lower products with Airplay).
post #166 of 192
My parents 805 is sill going strong (knock on wood) and it is the one I Reviewed when it first came out.
post #167 of 192
I used to own Onkyo receivers, but not anymore. The two I had had the same issue, which was a bad HDMI board after 2 years of ownership. Onkyo gives you a lot of options for the money, but their quality is questionable. Also, they ran super hot. I could probably make scrambled eggs on them lol.
post #168 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Have you tried searching AVS or that INTERNET for that matter? These threads DO exist...by the DROVES. The one we are currently barking on is only the "latest" on avs, lmao. Here, wanna single out Denon, have a go at this: https://www.google.com/search?q=avs+denon+problems&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

How many threads, with how many posters and how many posts on how many problems did you come up with? Ok, don't answer that. Try Yamaha now.

Doing a google search for Denon + problem is going to find lots of hits even though they won't be relevant as you are trying to suggest. i.e.. one of those hits... "it seems to do the very basics and thats it although it did find the amp no problem."

On any day look at the official Onkyo xxx AVR threads, official Denon xxx AVR threads, or official Yamaha xxx AVR threads. Yamaha and Denon users by and large seem to be discussing the use of their receivers. In the Onkyo threads, every 3rd post seems to be about "I just got my receiver back from the repair shop and it died again" posts. And these also typically are from people that have been members here for some years and aren't just new members joining up to vent their frustration.

Considering many members here are happy to criticise Bose and steer people looking for advice away from them... I can't understand why at the same time people are still recommending Onkyo receivers to unsuspecting people that come here looking for good advice...???

I wouldn't like to see anybody that has possibly had to save up a lot of money for them, to purchase a new AVR, and then for it to fail and they have nothing for weeks on end while it is away getting repaired. Why run that risk when there are less troublesome receivers on the market?
post #169 of 192
Thread Starter 
Exactly and that's why I'll take my repaired 709 or if its replaced for free by onkyo but I will never spend money again on their products. My money for now on will go towards Denon/Marantz products. It's just the wiser decision. It costs a little more to buy an equal receiver but it'll last for many years more.
post #170 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

Exactly and that's why I'll take my repaired 709 or if its replaced for free by onkyo but I will never spend money again on their products. My money for now on will go towards Denon/Marantz products. It's just the wiser decision. It costs a little more to buy an equal receiver but it'll last for many years more.

FYI : The Denon brand came from a merger of Denki Onkyo and others in 1939.
post #171 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

Exactly and that's why I'll take my repaired 709 or if its replaced for free by onkyo but I will never spend money again on their products. My money for now on will go towards Denon/Marantz products. It's just the wiser decision. It costs a little more to buy an equal receiver but it'll last for many years more.

FYI : The Denon brand came from a merger of Denki Onkyo and others in 1939.

That's too factual/logical for brand bashers/unhappy brand consumers. IIRC for many years Denon was supported by the CBS conglomerate as well. Why people have certain expectations from something as simplistic as a brand name is only evidence of the marketing machines brands can become....doesn't matter if original teams/ideas/patents are relevant, it's just the consumer's limited vision of a brand name. That's really why brand names get away with a lot of crap....
post #172 of 192
That was so explicit and to the point that it should put an end to this overdone post.
post #173 of 192
I hope with all the negative posts that they pay attention and get back to the quality they once had.
post #174 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I hope with all the negative posts that they pay attention and get back to the quality they once had.

I doubt it. Most companies nowadays are doing the reverse. They start with an excellent product and eventually start doing a mediocre product due to mass production.
post #175 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I hope with all the negative posts that they pay attention and get back to the quality they once had.

The home theater market pushed for lower AVR pricing and thats what they got...
Through the big box retailers and internet sellers the AVR pricing went down...
The major AVR brands Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer, Onkyo/Integra, Marantz, Denon are losing significant $...
The AVR material costs are up 35% due to more powerful processors, multiple for audio, video and connectivity plus HD royalties that are 3x higher compared to SD royalties..
Additionally, the labor costs have increased 25%, also appreciating currency exchange rates play a part as well....
An industry that doesn't generate adequate profits cannot reinvest $ to improve its quality...

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
post #176 of 192
The Pioneer Elite line is crap now too. All bark no bite.
Edited by kemiza - 9/9/13 at 3:06pm
post #177 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Doing a google search for Denon + problem is going to find lots of hits even though they won't be relevant as you are trying to suggest. i.e.. one of those hits... "it seems to do the very basics and thats it although it did find the amp no problem."

On any day look at the official Onkyo xxx AVR threads, official Denon xxx AVR threads, or official Yamaha xxx AVR threads. Yamaha and Denon users by and large seem to be discussing the use of their receivers. In the Onkyo threads, every 3rd post seems to be about "I just got my receiver back from the repair shop and it died again" posts. And these also typically are from people that have been members here for some years and aren't just new members joining up to vent their frustration.

Considering many members here are happy to criticise Bose and steer people looking for advice away from them... I can't understand why at the same time people are still recommending Onkyo receivers to unsuspecting people that come here looking for good advice...???

I wouldn't like to see anybody that has possibly had to save up a lot of money for them, to purchase a new AVR, and then for it to fail and they have nothing for weeks on end while it is away getting repaired. Why run that risk when there are less troublesome receivers on the market?

Wow. Not relevant, heh? Can you explain why?

Can you explain why those thousands of threads with thousands of posts are "not relevant"? I'm all ears and eyes, here. A LARGE number are plainly audio, video and network FAILURES that require service...not "how do I change the volume in zone 2?".

This is CLEARLY evidenced right there, black and white. How does this not "count" in your world?

"In the Onkyo threads, every 3rd post SEEMS to be about..."

Any evidence for this absurd postulation? Oh, and they're all people who have been on AVS forever. Yep Sure. rolleyes.gif

Why do people recommend Onkyo and other brands? Re-read my post that was quoted above.

James
post #178 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

That's too factual/logical for brand bashers/unhappy brand consumers. IIRC for many years Denon was supported by the CBS conglomerate as well. Why people have certain expectations from something as simplistic as a brand name is only evidence of the marketing machines brands can become....doesn't matter if original teams/ideas/patents are relevant, it's just the consumer's limited vision of a brand name. That's really why brand names get away with a lot of crap....
I am not a brand basher by any means. I am some one who got burned bad by Onkyo once. Decided I would give them a second chance since i liked what they offered and convinced myself I must have got a bad batch and got burned a second time with the same exact issue. The Denon I have has 0 issues and from what I have seen has a lot less issues then the onkyo brand as a whole. And a lot less failures. So if I'm a brand basher simoly for getting angered by a company completely disregarding an issue and not fixing it 4 years later then you're a fan boy because you're defending them and not facing the reality of a brand whose quality has dipped severely since 2007.
post #179 of 192

The last Onkyo receivers I've own are the TX-SR500 (a 2002 model or so), the TX-SR606 and the TX-SR707. The three of them now belong to my brothers and they are still in operation. No problemas so far.

 

Just FYI, I have a biamped system that uses a beautiful and powerful Onkyo M-504 stereo amplifier for driving the woofers of my Revel speakers. This amp is a vintage amp that has been in operation since 1988. No problemas at all since then with due exception of replacement of the meter lamps.

 

So, it is not rare now and then one or two units have problems but this means nothing at all except may be some bad luck for some users. And this happens with all brands, BTW.

post #180 of 192
Thread Starter 
Thought I would just update this post since the final outcome has just occurred. After my frustration and the fact that United Radio could not fix the receiver I had sent them 2 times on the 3rd Onkyo sent me a brand new 727 on Nov 1st to replace my defective 709 only 11 days before my warranty would expire. That's great policy practice by them and I'm happy they made right of their wrong. Hopefully when I receive it, it lasts longer than my 707 and 709 both did.
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