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How much would you sell a PB12/2-Plus for? - Page 2

post #31 of 91
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I hadn't thought of that or even considered it.. no flicking lights or anything like that. I can’t imagine it being a electrical issue from the graph albeit our house could use a few repairs.




Why'd you photoshop the oil well out of there Steve? wink.gif

Yeah, I was just throwing it out there. If you're ever curious about voltage sag, just leave a voltmeter in the wall socket while you crank up the system.
post #32 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Why'd you photoshop the oil well out of there Steve? wink.gif

Yeah, I was just throwing it out there. If you're ever curious about voltage sag, just leave a voltmeter in the wall socket while you crank up the system.

Maybe so, but I doubt it. Maybe Ilka transposed numbers, but I would think I would have caught it at the time. Anyway whatever the case it’s history. It is what it was or is, whatever the case?.. I really can’t say. cool.gif
post #33 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Eheh, I think I'm the only one who hasn't commented on the price. I just corrected you on your comparison. You came up with what, VTF 15?
That's "plenty" ? How much is that delivered?
LOL you gotta put a worm or something shiny on the hook if you want the fish to bite smile.gif

VTF-15 is 1040.00 shipped, PSA XS30 for 1149.00 shipped, Then you have the PC-12+ for 1199.00 shipped. So who in the right mind would spend 900.00(not including shipping) on a 8yr old sub when you can get these three offerings above brand new with a full warranty??
post #34 of 91
Well, I have one of these in Central NJ that I'm looking to upgrade from. I replaced the plate amp 2-3 years ago with a new one from SVS because one of the inputs went bad.

Not sure the XS30 is comparable given it's a sealed design with a lower power amp.

I really need to get off my butt and put it up for sale.
post #35 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Well, I have one of these in Central NJ that I'm looking to upgrade from. I replaced the plate amp 2-3 years ago with a new one from SVS because one of the inputs went bad.

Not sure the XS30 is comparable given it's a sealed design with a lower power amp.

I really need to get off my butt and put it up for sale.

Really...I didnt think those amps went bad according to somebody's claim on this forum.

Please do put it up for sale and let the op know how much you sold it for.
post #36 of 91
I don't think it was a failure of the electronics in the amp itself, just a problem with the fact that the input terminal was mounted on a circuit board and over time flexing of the board caused a trace to go bad.

SVS told me they would hand hold me through the troubleshooting process but I decided not to go through the aggravation and just pay the $200 to replace it.

SVS was really helpful through the whole process. They are a great company to deal with.
post #37 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

I don't think it was a failure of the electronics in the amp itself, just a problem with the fact that the input terminal was mounted on a circuit board and over time flexing of the board caused a trace to go bad.

SVS told me they would hand hold me through the troubleshooting process but I decided not to go through the aggravation and just pay the $200 to replace it.

SVS was really helpful through the whole process. They are a great company to deal with.

Awsome...so to get this thread back on track how much are you selling your +/2 for?
post #38 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

VTF-15 is 1040.00 shipped, PSA XS30 for 1149.00 shipped, Then you have the PC-12+ for 1199.00 shipped. So who in the right mind would spend 900.00(not including shipping) on a 8yr old sub when you can get these three offerings above brand new with a full warranty??

Heck if i know. Why you keep thinking I said it was worth 900 bucks is beyond me. I also didn't say the amps didn't go bad.

Putting words in my mouth and then arguing against them is a logical fallacy.

If it was my sub, Id put it up for a higher than average price and come down over time until it sells. When it sells we know the exact value. Whats the problem?
post #39 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Heck if i know. Why you keep thinking I said it was worth 900 bucks is beyond me. I also didn't say the amps didn't go bad.

Putting words in my mouth and then arguing against them is a logical fallacy.

If it was my sub, Id put it up for a higher than average price and come down over time until it sells. When it sells we know the exact value. Whats the problem?

First off How did i put words in your mouth? I never said you specifically said the amps do not go bad. You are so caught up in wanting to argue you are completely missing my point. I never said you think its worth 900 bucks, but for some reason you do think there is not a comparable performing sub in the 900.00 range which is false.

All I am trying to say is the +/2 typically is listed for sale in the 4-600 range. Another poster said he has his listed for 900.00. I stated at that price range you can get into a comparable performing sub brand new with full warranty. Something about that stuck a nerve with you...not sure why. However, I listed a couple options to prove my point, but you continue to try and find holes in my post to support your off topic banter.

My apologies for whatever I said that offended you. So please why dont you relax, drink a beer, get laid, and have a nice day! smile.gif
post #40 of 91
I plan to list it for $450 to move it quickly. It would have to be local pickup only.
post #41 of 91
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

First off How did i put words in your mouth?

You keep asking me why its worth 900. Ask the one guy who posted it was worth 900, not me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I never said you specifically said the amps do not go bad.
Jeez Louise
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Really...I didnt think those amps went bad according to somebody's claim on this forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

but for some reason you do think there is not a comparable performing sub in the 900.00 range which is false.
There isn't. Not my fault. You seem to have TV's ear. Ask him. It's his fault. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

My apologies for whatever I said that offended you. So please why dont you relax, drink a beer, get laid, and have a nice day! smile.gif

smile.gif

post #42 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

I plan to list it for $450 to move it quickly. It would have to be local pickup only.

Now thats a good price I bet you will not have any touble selling it... Good luck with sale! What are you going with next if you do not mind me asking?
post #43 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

You keep asking me why its worth 900. Ask the one guy who posted it was worth 900, not me.
Jeez Louise

There isn't. Not my fault. You seem to have TV's ear. Ask him. It's his fault. smile.gif


smile.gif

If you read carefully I am not asking you if its worth 900.00. I said who in the right mind would pay 900.00 for a 8yr old sub with no warranty that has sold recently for 4-600.00. That in know way meant that you think its worth 900.00. However you did insist that there was no sub in the "4-600.00(or 900.00 for that matter)" that would be comparable. thats the only part we disagree on.


Anyway were good Tack! I just want to make sure you didnt think I was bashing the +/2 for some odd reason!
post #44 of 91
Quote:
Anyway were good Tack! I just want to make sure you didnt think I was bashing the +/2 for some odd reason!

^^+1 Same here. It was all about price!
post #45 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Now thats a good price I bet you will not have any touble selling it... Good luck with sale! What are you going with next if you do not mind me asking?

Probably a Seaton SubMersive HP.
post #46 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Probably a Seaton SubMersive HP.

Oh very Nice!!
post #47 of 91
Too much speculation on this thread. People making assumptions of my sub with no clue of age, condition, and such. It is in perfect condition with the 12.3 drivers. I have had lots of interest, but no one quite local, so shipping becomes prohibitive. I have reduced the price to $800.00. One person here keeps harping and comparing this sub to units with just ONE woofer, and NOT two woofer-configurations. You CANNOT compare all units to one another. As a point of reference, a 2008 Corvette Z06 may sell for 40K, while another for 50K. Why the difference you may ask? Well, mileage, condition, usage, etc... all play a role and factor into the pricing. How about collector Corvette's from the 60's that still command $100+K at auction? Surely someone could argue that you could get a brand new ZR1 for that, right? Different strokes for different folks. To compete with this sub, one would need to look into a PSA XV30 for $1400, and in my opinion, the 12.3 woofers are better.
Edited by addictaudio - 7/29/13 at 10:32am
post #48 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

Too much speculation on this thread. People making assumptions of my sub with no clue of age, condition, and such. It is in perfect condition with the 12.3 drivers. I have had lots of interest, but no one quite local, so shipping becomes prohibitive. I have reduced the price to $800.00. One person here keeps harping and comparing this sub to units with just ONE woofer, and NOT two woofer-configurations. You CANNOT compare all units to one another. As a point of reference, a 2008 Corvette Z06 may sell for 40K, while another for 50K. Why the difference you may ask? Well, mileage, condition, usage, etc... all play a role and factor into the pricing. How about collector Corvette's from the 60's that still command $100+K at auction? Surely someone could argue that you could get a brand new ZR1 for that, right? Different strokes for different folks. To compete with this sub, one would need to look into a PSA XV30 for $1400, and in my opinion, the 12.3 woofers are better.

I am not making assumptions, I based my info off what other +/2's sold for. thats 4-600 depending on condition. You have had lots of interest and no takers, so you are now lowering the price. I hope you get 800.00 for it, however its not the norm. Its a great sub, but remember its 10yr old technology with no warranty.

Why cant one woofer subs be compare to two woofer subs?

Comparing Corvettes resale value to Subwoofers or electronics in general is silly at best.

How did you come up with that the +/2 would compete with the XV30? I prefer to get the facts straight from the creators of that sub...and that would be Tom V. & Jim F. I decided to email Tom in regards to this...and I was told that the PSA XV15 would match the +/2 it terms of extension, clean output, and have better sound quality for 799.00 shipped with a 5yr warranty. The XV30 is a significant upgrade... I was not going to bring this up but might as well after your response. I can provide you with the email or maybe Tom can chime in and set the record straight because after you read this, I am sure denial will set in and depression may take hold of you. Its ok we are here for you in time of need. smile.gif
post #49 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I am not making assumptions, I based my info off what other +/2's sold for. thats 4-600 depending on condition. You have had lots of interest and no takers, so you are now lowering the price. I hope you get 800.00 for it, however its not the norm. Its a great sub, but remember its 10yr old technology with no warranty.

Why cant one woofer subs be compare to two woofer subs?

Comparing Corvettes resale value to Subwoofers or electronics in general is silly at best.

How did you come up with that the +/2 would compete with the XV30? I prefer to get the facts straight from the creators of that sub...and that would be Tom V. & Jim F. I decided to email Tom in regards to this...and I was told that the PSA XV15 would match the +/2 it terms of extension, clean output, and have better sound quality for 799.00 shipped with a 5yr warranty. The XV30 is a significant upgrade... I was not going to bring this up but might as well after your response. I can provide you with the email or maybe Tom can chime in and set the record straight because after you read this, I am sure denial will set in and depression may take hold of you. Its ok we are here for you in time of need. smile.gif

If you are a PSA cheerleader and fan boy, then so be it. I am not here to get into a pissing match/contest with you, as you have gotten into others who differ in opinion from you, correct? Too much time to waist and sarcasm to go with it. The OP came to this thread asking a question, and I answered with my thoughts and what I have MINE listed for. No, it is not silly to compare Corvette's or anything of that matter to subwoofers, as NO two units are the same, when used. Meaning that pricing can VARY widely. Just because you saw two ads recently for the subwoofer going for 400 - 600, it does not mean that they are worth that. It can be a desperate sale due to financial reasons, blown amp/driver, abuse, neglect, and so many other factors to consider. You keep making reference to the number of years, and now you are up to 10, LOL. I believe that the SVS PB12 PLUS/2 was built until 2008, so that is really not old technology in terms of subwoofer advancements. I believe that the XV30 uses the very same 750 W RMS BASH amp as the PB12 PLUS/2 used, in a similar design and configuration. No use in us further polluting this thread with back and forth bickering.
post #50 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

If you are a PSA cheerleader and fan boy, then so be it. I am not here to get into a pissing match/contest with you, as you have gotten into others who differ in opinion from you, correct? Too much time to waist and sarcasm to go with it. The OP came to this thread asking a question, and I answered with my thoughts and what I have MINE listed for. No, it is not silly to compare Corvette's or anything of that matter to subwoofers, as NO two units are the same, when used. Meaning that pricing can VARY widely. Just because you saw two ads recently for the subwoofer going for 400 - 600, it does not mean that they are worth that. It can be a desperate sale due to financial reasons, blown amp/driver, abuse, neglect, and so many other factors to consider. You keep making reference to the number of years, and now you are up to 10, LOL. I believe that the SVS PB12 PLUS/2 was built until 2008, so that is really not old technology in terms of subwoofer advancements. I believe that the XV30 uses the very same 750 W RMS BASH amp as the PB12 PLUS/2 used, in a similar design and configuration. No use in us further polluting this thread with back and forth bickering.


Nice attempt but you fail...I never mentioned anything about PSA until you did...so take your name calling elsewhere. Tom V. designed the +/2 10yrs ago, but you appear to be in denial so I will post the email.




There was a ton of good info on the 12/2+ here

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/996-svs-pb12-plus-2-20-hz-tune-plus-12-3-a.html


The graphs are down at the moment(I already emailed forum owner Sonnie to check on this). I have all this information and more printed out so I can access it all easily though. With the plus/2 in 20hz mode...the XV15 will extend a little deeper but it would be close. The biggest FR difference will be in the upper bass. The plus/2 begins a steady upper frequency attenuation around 60hz. By 100hz it is down 6-7dB. Some don't feel this matters. I disagree. I believe a subwoofer that remains (relatively flat) out to 120hz(minimum) will sound audibly better---particularly with music material you are familiar with. Also, the much sharper lowend filtering (it is around 48-60dB/octave for the plus/2) will result in less than ideal impulse response, excessive stored ringing, and higher group delay(compared to a subwoofer with a more controlled rolloff like the XV15). So, overall, I feel the XV15 will simply sound much better. As noted, the extension will be very close so the only major variable left is output capabilities. This one is a bit tougher as the plus/2 was never put through the 2010-CEA method. However, we have quite a bit of distortion and compression data available(once all the graphs are back up..smile.gif. And with enough experience you can extrapolate this type of older data and get a very good idea of what the product would do if measured ala 2010-CEA.  The plus/2 is roughly equal in output to say 1.5 20-39PC+(in 20hz mode). Which makes sense given the content of each product. That would put it right at the same output levels as the XV15(which is equal to 1.5 20-39PC+ in 20hz mode).  I'd guess the plus/2 could have a slight edge in the 15-20hz range due to the port area....but on the whole(15-100hz) the XV15 and the plus/2 will be really close in terms of maximum clean output(and extension). As I noted, I'd give the "sound quality" edge to the XV15 though---without a doubt. 

The plus/2 was a good design(hell, it was designed by Jim/myself!) but time marches on and it is 10 years(?) old now?

Anyway---sorry for the overly long response..smile.gif

Tom Vodhanel 
Power Sound Audio
Power Up!
post #51 of 91
Quote:
Too much speculation on this thread. People making assumptions of my sub with no clue of age, condition, and such.

As I read the thread header that's what the OP is looking for.
Quote:
If you are a PSA cheerleader and fan boy, then so be it.

Imo one needs to filter out the distractions from the truth and listen to what's being said and then decipher from there. Most of us want the truth of the matter regardless of our perceived or true biases'.. just sayin doesn't change the bottom line. You want the blue pill or the red pill???

The RED Pill is the path of Philosophy and Reasoning and Critical Thinking and Science and testing. The BLUE Pill is that of simple and uncritical belief and emotional decision making. Which shall it be?
post #52 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

Point of clarification. The +/2 had a 900W amp.

Thank you for that. I did not remember. So it is a 900 W RMS BASH AMP for the PLUS/2?
post #53 of 91
The reality of the matter is amp wattage doesn’t matter, it’s how the driver relates to the wattage is what matters.
post #54 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I said who in the right mind would pay 900.00 for a 8yr old sub with no warranty that has sold recently for 4-600.00

I managed to sell a 10 year old sub (original HSU VTF-2) for about 60% of it's original value, but I think the only reason why I got that price is because the sub's amp had blown & I had recently had the caps replaced.

I think it would be higly unlikely that anyone would get 80-90% of original value on a subwoofer that is that old, has never been serviced, etc. I'd rather stick my money into something brand new.
post #55 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE View Post

$550-600??? That's crazy. You can buy a brand new PSA XV15 for $200 more and it'll probably perform as well, or even better.

I wouldn't pay more than $300 for this sub. It is a 9 year old sub, which is about at the end of its useful life because subwoofer amps don't last that long. Even if amp longevity isn't an issue, the age alone should demand at least 75% off the original price. We're looking at a sub that probably has about 3 more years before the amp starts to fail. Now that I think about it, $300 is generous.
I am with you man. I would list it for $300-$350 and be happy to get that. I just sold two brand new Outlaws for half of what I paid. I would have liked to have gotten more, but shipping is a killer. Who knows though, you never who is looking and you might get your money. List in the AVS classifieds and see if you get a fish on.
post #56 of 91
The plus two was 25 hz tuned sub. It's maximum output mode was for 25hz. Once you close a port you lose a minimum of 3 dBs so comparing it in 20hz mode against a natural 20hz tuned sub and being around the same tells me this dual 12 sub is a beast in its normal tune. I never used it in its port blocked tune because you lost too much output so I bought multiple 16-46CS+ subs for both spl and deeper extension. Oh and the price of the sub should be whatever you can sell it for! If it does not sell at $600 it is worth less. Heck, I was selling my dual passive sealed 13 inch driver subs for $300 and could not sell them. They are killer subs so I am keeping them!
post #57 of 91
Quote:
I bought multiple 16-46CS+

Hey MK.. do you remember back in the day when they had the cylinder veneered option? Pretty spendy but fun to look at none the same. I have thought about veneering a LLT sono I have in storage but I dunno? I once built a wine-rack stand that housed 3 CS+’s and it didn’t look to bad.
post #58 of 91
Yeah, that was their top of the line cylinder and the PB4+ was their big dog for output. Was it called the SS-12 or something, I can't remember. I really like the cylinder form over all others whether ported or sealed. If they sold a 10hz tuned cylinder(naturally without using port blocking) I would buy one. I know the 16-46CS+ could be tuned to 12hz and I would get 9hz in room but it lost too much output. A natural tuned 10-12hz sub would have more output and deep extension, the trade off is bigger size! This is exactly why I went DIY because there were not any options for me commercially except buying 8-10 16-46CS+ subs and tuning them to 12hz. This is where my 4 giant LLTs with the 18 inch 190v2 came from, recommended by Ed Mullen at SVS(when he first started working there). They were beasts!
post #59 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yeah, that was their top of the line cylinder and the PB4+ was their big dog for output. Was it called the SS-12 or something, I can't remember. I really like the cylinder form over all others whether ported or sealed. If they sold a 10hz tuned cylinder(naturally without using port blocking) I would buy one. I know the 16-46CS+ could be tuned to 12hz and I would get 9hz in room but it lost too much output. A natural tuned 10-12hz sub would have more output and deep extension, the trade off is bigger size! This is exactly why I went DIY because there were not any options for me commercially except buying 8-10 16-46CS+ subs and tuning them to 12hz. This is where my 4 giant LLTs with the 18 inch 190v2 came from, recommended by Ed Mullen at SVS(when he first started working there). They were beasts!

Yeah the LLT option/s were something. Do you remember Steve C. he always had plenty so say regarding LLT’s, and the many conversations that ensued. biggrin.gif I do forget the name of the SVS cylinder option but I definitely remember the B4+, that was one heavy block of a sub! Cylinders have always had a soft spot with me also. I still have a old PCi that I’ll never give up. I don’t know what it is about that sub for I have had so many other better options that I’ve sold or built. It’s just a good all around sub that fits within a lot of boundaries I guess?? After shipping, it's not worth selling imo.
post #60 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The plus two was 25 hz tuned sub. It's maximum output mode was for 25hz. Once you close a port you lose a minimum of 3 dBs so comparing it in 20hz mode against a natural 20hz tuned sub and being around the same tells me this dual 12 sub is a beast in its normal tune. I never used it in its port blocked tune because you lost too much output so I bought multiple 16-46CS+ subs for both spl and deeper extension. Oh and the price of the sub should be whatever you can sell it for! If it does not sell at $600 it is worth less. Heck, I was selling my dual passive sealed 13 inch driver subs for $300 and could not sell them. They are killer subs so I am keeping them!

It really depends on the room size. The 20Hz tune is the best for overall frequency response with this sub, so if you are happy with the SPL at this tune in your room it's the way to fly.

Unless you are running really hot at reference in a 3000+ cu ft room, this is not likely to be an issue.
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