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Pioneer Elite Voltages? - Page 9

post #241 of 373
Thread Starter 
I may have to figure out some cheap 40 inch LCD to get and then watch that most of the time and only watch movies on this or something because clearly it's never going to stop bothering my head. Only problem is you can't GET a good 40 inch of ANY type anymore. And keeping my old 40 will be annoying because somehow the color is all off on it no matter what I do.

I wondered if it's sme minor form of epilepsy or something because seems like I read that there are forms of it where you don't have as big of symptoms. It's something "muscle related" I think, based on how it feels and I guess that's why it doesn't simply go away when stopping watching it.
post #242 of 373
Thread Starter 
ANy ideas if there is still any way to get a service remote? Pioneer is mighty annoying to not give a crap about helping people after they closed up shop on the plasmas. Wouldn't have killed them to still sell service remotes. Maybe someone will have an extra or want to rent one out or something.
post #243 of 373
Thread Starter 
bump for solutions.
post #244 of 373
Here are a couple of images of my GGF1589 handset... The fabled 'factory' button obvious in the close up of the bottom half. Very handy as it works from G3 (afaik) right to the last.

I have emailed the place where i bought mine from, but don't know yet if they ship to the US. But can't put it up on here as they don't want bombarded with requests for them I'm sure...
post #245 of 373
Other option if not is the HEX code for a learning remote that was put up on AVS a year or two back
post #246 of 373
Thread Starter 
yeah, for the learning code, though, I believe the only thing posted about hat was where you had to use a specific harmony remote and I have a newer model remote than that. Too bad there isn't some way, with my current harmony remote, to simply use some sort of program to force it right in.
post #247 of 373
Thread Starter 
I can't even decide if I would want to keep an elite even if I decide to keep a tv that hurts my head because by my memory, I am almost positive even the ST50 had a more crisp, detailed picture. let's say I temporarily don't care about realism and just want a really crisp picture.... I don't think the elites can do it. In other words, the video processing is not nearly as good and there will be more noise and blurriness in less than perfect video source material. the ST50 blew me away, but hurt my head majorly. So far I have not ever been "blown away" with the elites. I kind of doubt black level improvement would change it much.

So I don't know what to do anymore. If I knew I could fix the black level I would probably just keep it. But the VT60 was even rated as a better set. If I am keeping one that will hurt my head anyway, I figure I might as well keep the one with the best picture even if it hurts my head more, since the elite will hurt it too, just not as much. nd I was going to get an S60 just to see if the smaller size changes anything, head-wise, but it will have so many picture issues, I don't know if it's worth my time.
post #248 of 373
A properly set up Kuro is more crisp - more detailed...With
much less dither and PWM noise (D-Nice mentioned such a thing on HDJ in comparison to the st50 regarding the dithering also) Also on Kuro's - false edge enhancement can actually be disabled thankfully.

I'm beginning to wonder if you actually know what you are looking at smile.gif

I reckon the best thing to do would be to buy a Panasonic and be done with it.
post #249 of 373
Thread Starter 
I know what I am looking at...... A lot of material does not look right. I remember when I decided to buy an elite, I had been researching and read reviews where people who bought them new said that they had very poor picture quality for non-HD source material. That basically it was great for HD material, but no good video processing to make lesser material look good. That's one area the sony hx929 was good in. It would improve noisy source material.

Also, it could be the poor black level giving me some of this impression, too, but obviously after months of me trying, I have got no solution on it. It "could" be fixed by changing the voltage settings, but there's no guarantee there, either. And I assume if I do changes on the calibrated set it would screw the whole calibration up.

This second elite is more of a "wow" to me than the first, but in some video it still doesn't look right, which I don't know if it's due to the calibration being off or what. I justw ant the thing to lok right and have deep blacks, and to me, it still doesn't. I really don't think it's possible that it's "normal" black level, but then again my vision could be playing huge tricks. That's why I am still tempted to try the s60 where I can know for sure if the black level on the elites is proper as I could not be unlucky enough to get two bad elites AND a bad s60 new in the box, so surely I can assume the s60 black will be proper and then I will know if the elite is screwy.

I was reading about how some plasma.... I believe the v10 could have so bad of rising black levels that it would go to freakin 0.03 or something like that. That is THIRTY times worse than the elite's supposed value. So who's to say these elties couldn't be that bad now too? In fact it may have said 0.3 instead of 0.03. I forget now.

And now when I sell one, someone amy notice this thread and say I ripped them off or something. Well the technician claimed it was ok, so it's not right for me to be blamed for it as if I am the one who bought it new and then sell it later on.

So I hope I can fix both of them, if they are faulty, where I will be selling them in great condition.
post #250 of 373
Yes I know what you are getting at but i have seen a vx300 beside a 600A and the KRP (has) better processing.

But of course what Pioneers are all about is displaying material as faithfully as possible - so if there is excessive compression or softness there that's what will be displayed. If the material is pristine detailed and sharp it will display that also. It's best to have all NR turned off on these and source like bluray players. And to have power save modes off too as they introduce noise - noticeable if you look less than two feet. But i always have them off for real pristine blu-ray transfers. The only time i have power save mode on is when gaming longer than four hours at a time. But i have a feeling that some sort of power saving mode is activated on Game mode wether we like it or not. Because of the dip in contrast it's very similar imo to power save mode 2.

If you wanted to hide certain artifacts i would recommend using a tweaked Standard mode running through an external processor, or an OPPO103 and it's processing - as it clears up and sharpens more up than it actually should depending on what HDMI input is used on it. Rather than Pure mode which shows everything for what it is - amazing, or not.

Reference displays show exactly what should be there - but there are ways to turn these into "normal" tv's should you so wish.

On Kuro's btw sharpness "off" is - 15... But on a reference sharpness pattern enhancer mode 1 and sharpness - 7 is theoretically correct also
Edited by Stu03 - 10/30/13 at 2:28am
post #251 of 373
Thread Starter 
Yeah, good points. I sometimes do mess around with other picture modes for when I am watching something where realism isn't important, but get out of the habit and usually just keep it in an ISF mode.

I'm pretty sure these black levels are just flat nowhere near normal because if I get right up at the screen for black text, the black looks very very light, and even on this LCD MONITOR I am looking at right NOW while typing this, black text looks darker to me and this is in freakin vivid mode.

If I can fix the black level I will likely keep one elite and maybe get a cheap, small LCD to help with my head because for some reason small LCDs give my head a big break. Only ways I would likely get a tv other than a kuro for my "good" tv is if 1. I can't get the black levels decent or 2. if another great tv hurts my head less or 3. I decide I won't use it often, due to my head, so want a crazy big one since my head will hurt either way. For #2, though, really I don'[t recall any tv I've tried hurting my head less than the elite. But it may be because the black level is wrong. Good contrast may be what bothers my head. Trust me, it's hurting enough to be a REAL issue, though, and no doctor ever has any ideas as to why.
post #252 of 373
Thread Starter 
Went and glanced at an ST60 and at first glance it looked MUCH blacker than these elties. But the more time I spent analyzing, it just got too tough to know because of the lighting and another ST60 in the same store seemed less black, so I dunno. Also, though, even in VIVID mode the first one sure looked mighty black to me. Either way, I am tired of this crap. I have to figure something out and be done with it. May just have tow atch my old LCD and occasionally these, but I need to get their black levels fixed, if there is truly an issue.
post #253 of 373
Well that is entirely possible that the st60 is darker than the elite but... And it's a (BIG) but.

The Panasonic is at the start of its pulse count - the Kuro is thousands of hours old.

If they were both new or at the start of the pulse count the ELITE would piss all over the ST60 with regards to black in a dark room.

Which makes me think if you are right that it's simply a case of rising MLL in the Kuro ELITE pure and simple.
post #254 of 373
Thread Starter 
I watched several movies, and all but one of them were full screen. When I watched the one with black bars, it bothered my head noticeably less. So it's pretty much fact that this tv is too big, thus being PART of my head problem. But, again, nothing smaller has a great picture, so I am stuck. Also, the more I watch it, the more I agree how outstanding the picture CAN be, but for some reason it varies, even during one movie. I wonder if the calibration being off is why. For instance when the scene has darker colors in it, it looks a lot better than when it has brighter ones.

Btw, I think I forgot to mention in any of these posts that in one of CNET's panny reviews it mentioned Panasonic sending them a kuro 111, wanting them to see that the panny beats it. Well, if you notice in that review (I think the ST60, but maybe it was VT or ZT), he points out that the kuro they sent him did NOT perform in the same great way as his previous 111. Yet more evidence that these elites have rising black levels. That's one reason, though, it's hard to say these are the best tvs because a tv has to keep its great picture for more than a freakin year to be considered the best and apparently all of these are having rising blacks eventually, whether the owners notice it or not.
post #255 of 373
Comments or comparisons with regards to televisions and manufacturers who stopped making displays five years ago now should be taken with a pinch of salt imo. Because it would be like picking on a mute who can't answer back. Anyway i'm not talking about CNET specifically but worldwide. I wonder why in reviews none of the real negative things about new tv's come out or the positive things about the VS tv that the manufacturers and the like insisted on doing.

That answers itself.

Unless talking about independents comments, comparisons or opinions of course but unfortunately these tend to be brushed under the carpet...

Out of interest somelogin - how far do you sit from the panel anyway usually ?
post #256 of 373
Thread Starter 
it varies, but where I have it I can NOT get more than probably 7 feet away at most, which according to some charts is an ideal distance, but it does seem mighty close. But a lot of times when I watch movies, I may only be 4-5 feet away. And for video games maybe even 3 feet away. I have bad vision, not just the latest visual problems, so honestly when I do sit 6-7 feet away there is a ton of detail I flat can't see. That's what makes it a tough situation. Let's say I got a 70 inch tv. Well even STILL I would be missing detail after x feet away. No matter what size I get, on some content I willw ant to sit 4 or 5 feet away, so that's why getting bigger tvs doesn't solve anything and I probably should have stuck with 40-42 and just sat like 3 feeta way, but I was so convinced a bigger tv would be best for me. Sigh. But seriously what 40-42 inch could come close to a kuro? Nothing. it would be hilarious comparing. So usually my plan is to keep ONE small tv with a mediocre picture and ONE elite and then watch it sparingly, tos top my head issues. But for the past almost year I have watched only elites and so my head never heals.

Also, I wonder if part of the reason the letterboxed movie bothered me less is because of the ABL. There were a lot of scenes with bright white and they looked totally white, unlike if a fulls creen picture would have white. it looks more "pure" to me, thus why I say LCDs seem to have more pure light. Either that, the size, or maybe my head got adjusted due to watching so many movies in one day. Something was different is all I know. And I alsow atched a 4:3 program and it was not as bothersome, so anything with black bars ANYWHERE on the screen is tamer on my head.
post #257 of 373
Yeah LCD's always have bright white (don't like blue whites though eek.gif - it's possible to have cleanish brightish whites on certain plasmas but only after calibration which evens/mixes up the rgb which makes it so then up the contrast before ABL kicks in whatever voltage number that happens to be in the service menu's in relation to real world imagery. But i'm talking about a full white signal - any material on screen on a decently set up Kuro and whites look very clean and bright regardless - imo.

8G 42" Kuro's were great - Fujitsu's last 42"also - Panasonic had some great 42" industrial monitors too but lack the black depth of the Pioneers... But seriously - how black does it have to go... My KRP i rarely have it at it's mll because even then quite a few notches above its minimum level it goes dark enough for me in most cases. I don't watch in absolute darkness until last thing at night one or two hrs max, it hurts my eyes otherwise. It's just nice knowing that inky black is there should i want it but very rarely do i actually use it even in the dark because it's dark enough even a few notches above mll. And it will be the same when i get a 0MLL OLED eventually. Imo when there is any ambient light or non direct daylight the absolute minimum black levels aren't necessary because the filter makes it look black as black anyway save for a little reflection depending on the time of day - and the brightness has to go up anyway for shadow details. When i first got my KRP500A in 09 getting it dark as i could was the be all and end all. So the red tint starting at 200hrs or whatever did my head in. The black levels rise at the same time as the tint started so they must work (or not as the case may be) hand in hand.

Now i'm more relaxed about it, not stressing about the black levels as they are there if necessary.

Anyway i also sit close (habit of years of gaming) and the closer the better for 1080P on 50" within reason. 4 5 or six feet max for Blu-ray
post #258 of 373
Thread Starter 
What's the best 42 inch kuro? I assume not an elite? I think those were always bigger. I don't know if it's worth me going to the trouble of getting a 42 one or not.
post #259 of 373
They haven't been made for about 7 years and are 720p. At your viewing distance not an option as you would definitely see the difference in resolution.
post #260 of 373
Apple use to use them in their stores to display the first/second gen Apple TVs.
post #261 of 373
Thread Starter 
I think I made a bad decision getting the oppo 103d instead of the regular 103. I thought well I would rather have movies look the way theyw ere intended, but could get use out of it on material that I don't care about realism in, but I really think I am just wasting the extra $100. For one thing I thought it would be nice having more depth and 3D feel to the picture, but then I just watched another movie on the elite and it ALREADY looks full of depth and 3D0-like, so what's the point? And I think I am likely not going to be able to get it switched to the regular 103 in time. One thing,t hough, is supposedly the 103 has undefeatable noise reduction and the 103d can defeat it, but that is not likely worth $100. lol

Also, by the way, when I watched this one movie, it amazed me AND my head wasn't hurting for the first time in who knows how long. But later I watched another movie and it did bother me again. The first was through an oppo 93 and the second was through TiVo. So I wonder if the issue is related to 60 vs 24p since higher refresh rate would be activated for 24p using advance so maybe that helps my head.

Some movies really do amaze me now. I would say I still stand by my statement that it seems to have more noise on this than pannys, though. As in, it's probably in the source, but the panny would clean it up better, I think. But I am definitely seeing great clarity, great detail, and some movies do really amaze me. Now I don't know what to do because if I fix the black levels by resetting, then the calibration is ruined and I am loving a lot about the settings. And I don't want to pay $400+ to have it redone. I still wish d-nice would be here and do it for me, although I don't think he will reset them.
post #262 of 373
I already have a BDP-103. If I could do it again today, I'd spring for the Darbee edition just to see what all the hoopla is about. The processing it employs is quite remarkable according to its biggest fans and creates a greater sharpness perception as a result. Any panel will benefit.
post #263 of 373
Vinnie have you thought about trading in the 103 against the price for the 103D - bound to get a good price for the 103 as it's still very much sought after.

Still thinking about getting a 103D myself but am still happy with the 60GB PS3 so in two minds
post #264 of 373
You mean doing the resell routine? That thought had crossed my mind, but I am reeling from recent purchases, so I'm in no rush (and quite happy with the 103 proper). If Oppo offered an actual trade-in incentive for the new player, I might even be more inclined.
post #265 of 373
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

You mean doing the resell routine? That thought had crossed my mind, but I am reeling from recent purchases, so I'm in no rush (and quite happy with the 103 proper). If Oppo offered an actual trade-in incentive for the new player, I might even be more inclined.

Yeah like trading in where you bought the 103 from against the price of the 103d. Some dealers let you do that. I traded in my 51FD to go towards the cost of a 2500bt many moons ago.

But had to sell on the 2500bt separately and the Darbee i had only for only two months ages ago due to employment issues to put toward the new plasma i have now. Definitely interested in the 103d as i always wanted the 103 and having basically lost the Darblet it's like two birds with one stone imo. I liked the performance and sound of the Denon transport but it's SD performance was shady to say the least (soft) and tbh the PS3 beats it in that regard. This phat 60GB PS3 is a console specialist refurb - new upgraded intenal cooling system and whisper 19 blade fan, new blu laser, artic cooling paste everywhere, reballed GPU - the works. I wish i had bought one four years ago instead of (imo) wasting money on the Denon transport. No way i would have sold on the PS3 like i did the Denon thinking back. Would have found the money elsewhere.

Darbee was good - game mode worked better for sd i found - sharpened up distance objects far far better than HD mode for SD mode, certainly on the 500A anyway. HD mode worked for just that. Full pop a no no for anything, not on plasma anyway imo.

It wasn't ideal though really for broadcast SD - compression was highlighted beautifully lol - even if the distance objects was clearer. Decent quality DVD'S were much better though. Grainy blu-ray's it made the grain shinier - lol.

At this moment in time i'm thinking everything into a decent HDMI splitter, then a decent to good HDMI cable from another standalone Darbee into the back of the display but not sure yet
post #266 of 373
Thread Starter 
I had no plans to get the 103, then yesterday on a whim I decided I wanted to upgrade to the 103 and just like an hour after I made that decision I already sold my 93 on here for $400. That's really cool how Oppos and Tivos keep such a huge amount of their value even when used. So I PLANNED on just getting the regular 103 then would only be out a little more than $100, but I ended up with the same thought as Vinnie, that if I didn't get the d version I would always wonder about it.

Anyway, I expected you both to not like the idea of darbee, so at least I feel like maybe it's worth the $100 to at least have the option now.
post #267 of 373
The ever-evolving home theater exploits of the videophile/audiophile junkie/geek. smile.gif Oppo is the only high-end disc transport product I've owned, I'm somewhat embarrassed to say. Jumped from the 83 --> 93 --> 103 at time of launch on each occasion. If I was using its D/A converter, I'd have the even more expensive 105 to buy. eek.gif That said, they seem to maximize their cost to performance ratio in comparison to the longer established brands (i.e. Denon). I don't do gaming anymore, that's a serious PS3 project...DIY?

Concerning Darbee (thanks for the chronicled experience, btw...it will end up being useful if I ever procure one) and the 103D, I purchased via Amazon, so I doubt there's a trade-in offer but it doesn't hurt to check.
post #268 of 373
Thread Starter 
Luckily I am not tempted to get he 105 because I just use a Yamaha soundbar, so I'm sure it wouldn't be some huge improvement. I do love the soundbar, btw, though! I didn't want to use a lot of speakers in this particular setup. Too bad its supposed ability to throw sound in all directions to make it seem like you have speakers everywhere doesn't work, although sometimes for the left and right sides it will sound like sound is way off in the distance rather than coming from the speakers.

I really don't see how the 105 could be worth the cost anyway though if all it does is improve sound it's sending out and then still you have to buy the audio equipment, so doesn't seem like it would be worth t.t
post #269 of 373
Thread Starter 
I am so confused. My ehad is still not very bad and I have no clue how it can suddenly be less bothersome after YEARS of almost every day bothering me and the past couple weeks were as bad as ever, just about, and now suddenly it's different.

ALso it's back to bothering my eyes such as making them feel fatigued. that's how my head issues started. in the beginning all these tvs would bother my eyes and not my head. then it switched to my head and not my eyes. Now out of nowhere it is back to my eyes and not as much my head.
post #270 of 373
Try to roll with it (don't watch for extended sessions)!

Sounds like marketing speak on that Yamaha soundbar. The 105 is for the analog junkie who likes the sound processing prowess of its internal DAC instead of that of a receiver. They can then proceed to feed that raw signal to just an amplifier (or bypass the likely inferior DAC on their receiver).
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