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Pioneer Elite Voltages? - Page 2

post #31 of 373
I will buy it for three hundred right now...no questions asked...
post #32 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Like Randy pointed out a few days ago, the OP has never asked for help in the places where those who would be the most knowledgible about Kuro issues are to be found, in the Kuro threads, and guess what, to this very moment he still has not asked on there. He must be afraid that he would get real answers that would not fit his desired one!
He has actually (back in April) but was banned from the thread due to a falling out with the forum members. This saga is sadly in its 4th month. frown.gif
post #33 of 373
Thread Starter 
colerbear, even my old LCD is worth that much. This is still my best option other than if I buy another of the same model, in which case I would still not do if I can't sell this for under like $800 or else wait a long time until I have more money on hand to buy a new one. But the principle that I paid big bucks makes me likely to keep it, even if I could sell ti and get a new one for a net cost of like $500, because I just hate the idea of so quickly selling something I paid a lot for.

Unfortunately, I have been very sensitive to flicker in about all plasmas and even leds EXCEPT this one model. Only tvs I would ever think of having are these elite models and panny plasmas, but the pannys bother me soooo much with flicker that it goes right back to only kuros. Then when OLED sets become cheap I assume that will be my next choice once kuros are not an option anymore. Just a shame I had to get one that ended up like this. I still like it because on bright shows it looks good and also the matteish look to the screen.

By the way, to whoever asked a while back if I see this in pitch black, YES, that is the MAIN place I notice it. And I never said it looked gray, exactly, was just saying when the tv repair man said looking gray is normal, I knew he is not experienced enough with elites. And him looking at a checkerboard diagram with lights ON in the room and declaring it a great black level just from looking at that!!!
post #34 of 373
Thread Starter 
Bump. Surely there is at elast one decent repair person on here. Asking even a decent one which parts can affect the black level is like asking a baker what ingredients are in the food they make. If a repair person can't even tell me what could be wrong, they sure can't be good. There's a PROCESS that makes the picture on the screen. Sad that this many people can't answer my question and instead want me to lose ISF modes and then pay $400 to have a broken tv calibrated.
post #35 of 373
Maybe you should try a pioneer tech forum..
post #36 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Sad that this many people can't answer my question and instead want me to lose ISF modes and then pay $400 to have a broken tv calibrated.
What do you want us to say? If you used ControlCAL, I don't understand why you couldn't save the profiles in some way (either as configuration files or simply jotting down settings in the old-fashioned way on pencil and paper). Your attitude is burning bridges before they're even finished being built.

At the very least, all these responses that you hate so much are garnering more views for your technical problem.
post #37 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Surely there is at elast one decent repair person on here. Asking even a decent one which parts can affect the black level is like asking a baker what ingredients are in the food they make.

somepatient: "Hey doctor, I have trouble breathing, and I tried some stuff that didn't help. I need a lung transplant, right?"
BAD doctor: "Yep, you might have a bad lung. Go replace that lung right away."
GOOD doctor: "Maybe, and maybe not. I need to examine you personally and run some tests so that I can make that determination."

somelogin: "Hey tech, I have bad black level, and I tried some stuff that didn't help. I need to replace a part, right?"
BAD tech: "Yep, you might have a bad XYZ part. Go replace that XYZ part right away."
GOOD tech: "Maybe, and maybe not. I need to examine your TV personally and run some tests so that I can make that determination."
post #38 of 373
I don't understand why he can't post a picture of the problem or at least the tv itself....if it's as bad as he claims the picture will prove it...my offer is now 100 dollars..as is no questions asked
post #39 of 373
Thread Starter 
*yawn*. SOme of you should really read posts before posting these things. I already stated that taking pics can never accurately show the problem. And njera doesn't comprehend, apparently, that someone already EXAMIEND the tv and wouldn't admit there is a problem, so yes when nobody will tell the problem the only CHOICE is to start replacing parts. Im sure in your example they would try whatever also rather than do nothing. Also, I said I never DID use controlCAL. I said the original owner did, so I would have to figure out if anyone even still CHECKS anything at the site to sell me a license key AND I would have to figure out where to get the proper cables, converters, etc... But how is that too much trouble if it will fix the set, you ask? Because it WON'T fix the set, just like none of the other suggestions fixed it either. Thinking resetting the set will fix it is like saying resetting a SOny led will make the flashlighting disappear.
post #40 of 373
I never claimed you used ControlCAL before, just that it's what you should try next if you want to continue down the road of troubleshooting unless someone gives you another idea. Do what you can in the meantime, as opposed to the stamping of the feet demanding a cure-all for what is obviously a rare problem. A USB to serial converter is not that costly, though to be fair I did forget the cost of the software. An incorrectly set voltage could easily be the cause of the set's poor blacks (i.e. something you must also believe based on the title you chose for this thread). A factory reset is the most fool-proof way to return it to the original values.
post #41 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

*yawn*. SOme of you should really read posts before posting these things. I already stated that taking pics can never accurately show the problem. And njera doesn't comprehend, apparently, that someone already EXAMIEND the tv and wouldn't admit there is a problem, so yes when nobody will tell the problem the only CHOICE is to start replacing parts. Im sure in your example they would try whatever also rather than do nothing. Also, I said I never DID use controlCAL. I said the original owner did, so I would have to figure out if anyone even still CHECKS anything at the site to sell me a license key AND I would have to figure out where to get the proper cables, converters, etc... But how is that too much trouble if it will fix the set, you ask? Because it WON'T fix the set, just like none of the other suggestions fixed it either. Thinking resetting the set will fix it is like saying resetting a SOny led will make the flashlighting disappear.
You've got to give us something to work with here. This isn't a game of twenty questions you know. Is it because your photography skills are as lacking as your attitude? Can it show the problem at all? Have you tried photographing a test pattern with grey scale such as this one: testchart (1).png 6086k .png file ???
post #42 of 373
Thread Starter 
What would be the use in photographic a grayscale test pattern? I won't see how you would be able to determine anything from that whatsoever, as you would have no comparison to anything to judge the levels. The best way to notice the issue is in seeing black bars and full black screens in real content. And any time I've tried doing that (with all lights off), you couldn't even make out that the screen as even there.

One odd behavior I have mentioned is that when using the Disney wow disc and doing advanced brightness, when I lower brightness to cause the checkerboard boxes to disappear, the OUTLINE white lines are still there! I have used that disc on countless tvs and never has a white outline still showed once the boxes are blacked out. I didn't even know they HAD white lines as the borders to the squares. So something is really weird. Also there is image retention within SECONDS of an image on the screen. For instance, I put in a LOTR movie and it had the fbi warning in a circular box. As soon as that screen faded to black an outline of that circular box was still there even though it had only been on the screen for like 5 seconds!

I watched the same LOTR scenes on my old CCFL LCD, my sony hx929, and this pro111fd and it doesn't look "worse than the LCD", as I have said before, or at least not in most scenes, but it's still mighty bad and I notice it more in this that the LCD. Probably because the LCD ahs BETTER detail in the picture than this tv so it's probably less likely my eyes wander from the picture to the black bars than with the kuro with a less sharp picture.

I don't have a lacking "attitude". I was always polite and then there are like 5-10 people who throw temper tantrums if I don't consider their advice as gospel and how dare I ONLY follow 9 out of 10 suggestions. I've been told I am lying about the tv having any issues and had rude people saying how nnot spending $400 on calibrating a broken tv is so horrible, etc.

Vinnie, none of us know what to do for the voltages and nobody will tell us, including d-nice, who never answers me. Being able to access them is useless when none of us know what to do to them. Thus why I made this thread and, as you see, it did me no good, as nobody has posted saying they know what to do. (deleted by Moderator: asking to borrow a license key is against the law: deleted)
edit: also, by glancing at the controlcal site, it looks as if all that does is let you set calibration settings, not voltages, so not sure how me using cotnrolcal helps with anything. If all you can do through it is change the ISF modes, then it's obviously not the problem, as my issues exist in all modes, such as pure, as well.
post #43 of 373
Moderator

if you are not here to help, please consider unsubscribing from the thread

TIA

edit: references to request to borrow a license key have been edited: this violates AVS guidelines
post #44 of 373
Thread Starter 
I could explain why I said that and why I think it wouldn't violate it, but don't want to if it needs to be dropped. tongue.gif

I am still assuming there is SOME tv repair person on this site. How they haven't noticed this yet I don't know. But notice the title is about the exact topic d-nice knows about and he never responds, so one can't say there is simply nobody here who has knowledge, as they have flat said several times now (that I am wasting time and there is nobody here).
post #45 of 373
Thread Starter 
I don't see anything in the manual, thus far, about resetting all settings. Plus I wonder if it would only reset the public settigns and not the service menu nes, anyway.
post #46 of 373
frown.gif Ugh, I'm betting that function may require a service manual.
post #47 of 373
Thread Starter 
I thought you had read it before yourself, though.

edit: it requires not just a service manual, but to go into the actual service menu, according to some supposed knowledgeable person on a forum I came to when searching just now. So the only way to do practically anything now is to buy controlCAL or have it calibrated. I may just buy controlCAL, as the guy from that site said it has ability to go into service menu also.
post #48 of 373
I lied (was actually going by a faulty memory and was confused since my new Panasonic has this reset feature). I'm glad you found how to do it....though I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to delve in that deeply.
post #49 of 373
Thread Starter 
I'm sure I just imagined this, but after running the video pattern for an hour, when I put in the blu ray again, it seemed like the black bars were darker. Itw asn't as distracting, although still was not as black as it should be. Also that warning graphic didn't seem to leave an after image this time. All I know is it's got to be way fof,s till, because with Panasonic plasmas I did not eve have to THINK "is this as black as it should be?". I never saw anything but blackness as far as I recall.
post #50 of 373
Thread Starter 
Bump. So zero people know anything about voltages, huh? Even though at least one person has said he does.
post #51 of 373
^^^

with respect, a suggestion:

let this thread end and ask that if there are any members who can help, you would appreciate a PM, and you would be very thankful for any assistance

tia
post #52 of 373
Thread Starter 
That does no good. This keeps going to the second page quickly and threads which are pointless and have no purpose get posted in constantly and nobody tells them to stop posting. I am out a ton of money for a screwy tv that some people here could help with.
post #53 of 373
It is voltages causing the problem (the overtly extreme glow)

A 'normal' calibration/ISF only takes the colours out of grey/black that shouldn't be there.

Will do nothing for reducing the over voltage lighting up the black (MLL) on your panel.

That is service menu only.

A full reset, and then re- adjustments for previous phosphor ageing, the only way back to black if it is lit up like a Christmas tree in a black room on a blank input.

But there will be tweaks without resetting - but nothing like depth of black like when it was new. Your algorithms 'sound' too far gone.

But really, it's impossible to say without some posted images of blackout room conditions, with blank input images - to get an idea - of exactly how bad the raised MLL actually is. If it could or would be helped without a full reset.

Imho
post #54 of 373
Thread Starter 
So far I am never able to get accurate pics and kept doubting that making changes in camera settings will be helpful enough in getting it to show properly either. I wish I knew a calibrator who actually lives near me where they may measure the black level for a very low price. Only calibrators I have talked to are not local and have travel fees and would cost me half a full calibration fee just to get it looked at. I spent a LONG time looking for the right tv (many complications) and finally found this model, the PERFECT model for me and it had to have this issue.

Like I said, though, one guy on this site had this same issue and I believe it was early on after he bought his, so wouldn't be anything related to phosphor aging if that was indeed the case with his. I wish there was someone at Pioneer who cared enough to try to help me with it. I know nobody who would kow how to help and sicne the ONLY repair people authorized by Pioneer won't admit there's a problem, it just puts me in a situation where I am stumped as to what to do.
post #55 of 373
Thread Starter 
What I want to know is how there can only be one person on the entire planet (d-nice) who knows how to fix these issues with the voltages? he clearly is not interested in this and so then it leaves me with zero people. And on another site he said only an idiot would mess with voltages or reset the tv, so there goes those options. I think it's more depressing knowing this could be fixed than it would be if I knew it were truly broken, because who wants to know that all that';s needed to fix their tv is knowledge and yet nobody will give it? Spent thousands on a tv that so quickly has major issues and apparently will never be fixed. It still COULD be bad parts, but it does make sense that it could be faulty voltage changes over the aging. Obviously the tv repair business is utter crap if nobody knows how to fix something related to settings.
post #56 of 373
Since you are apparently completely unwilling to post in an appropriate Pioneer thread, or post your issue in the Calibration forum, then you need decide if you're willing to spend the money to have an experienced knowledgeable Pioneer ISF Calibrator come to your house and officially determine if the problem cannot be corrected via calibration and that it indeed is a hardware problem, then seek out an experienced and knowledgeable Pioneer repair man to diagnose and repair your TV. Nobody can fix it over the internet.

You should have never bought someone's used defective TV. You should have at least tested it in his house before agreeing to buy it.
post #57 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

What I want to know is how there can only be one person on the entire planet (d-nice) who knows how to fix these issues with the voltages? he clearly is not interested in this and so then it leaves me with zero people. And on another site he said only an idiot would mess with voltages or reset the tv, so there goes those options. I think it's more depressing knowing this could be fixed than it would be if I knew it were truly broken, because who wants to know that all that';s needed to fix their tv is knowledge and yet nobody will give it? Spent thousands on a tv that so quickly has major issues and apparently will never be fixed. It still COULD be bad parts, but it does make sense that it could be faulty voltage changes over the aging. Obviously the tv repair business is utter crap if nobody knows how to fix something related to settings.

The thing is Pioneer won't help - especially not publicy - as they fix one they get sued etc etc. And fixing around the world would run into millions - if not tens of millions.

Forgot Pioneer... Your best bet to resolve the issue is D-Nice, or if not D-Nice then some other independent expert.

It can be fixed. Phone around some tv techs. If a reset and readjustment was needed then some (will) have the appropriate equipment for putting the voltages back at the correct numbers with relevance to previous ageing taken place previously.

I did it myself on my last Kur for the red tint and (from eye) the (only) way anyone could tell it wasn't perfect (me) was one inch from the screen. That's not a realistic every day viewing distance. And only then it was on one solid color basically. In other words it was 99% fixed to the human eye. I reset five times and the last time it took me all of ten mins to adjust afterwards. I sold the 500A to someone i am in regular touch with who knew all about it - and seven months and approximately 9 hundred hours later it's still doing fine.

But i have spoken to one Pio tech on the phone here in the UK who said it is fixable and they know how to re adjust and what voltages to adjust for what artefacts.

But it costs and not every Pioneer centre will know how.
post #58 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Since you are apparently completely unwilling to post in an appropriate Pioneer thread.
He was banned from the Pioneer Elite thread (where no additional progress was made over at least a 2-month period of posting unfortunately), though I suppose he could try posting in the Non-Elite thread. Not sure that would make any difference at this juncture.
post #59 of 373
Thread Starter 
Like I said:
1. Only one place was listed on the pioneer site as being authorized and the guy who came out clearly did not know what's up as he claimed this horrible level was normal.
2. D-nice is clearly uninterested, as I said. I've tried in many ways to get him to agree to calibrate it and he never responds, let alone say he can do it.
3. The only way one can get a 111 is to buy used and even if it were new, it could be faulty and then nobody would cover it. All other plasmas have had bothersome flicker for me, so this was the right choice. I didn't know that there could be 1 in a million which ahs bad black levels. I thought I was only risking something such as burn in.
4. Any calibrator I would get is not going to be able tot ell me it "can't be fixed with calibration" because they won't KNOW how to do the voltages so they can't say with certainty. All they can say is THEY can or can't fix it with calibration. Also any time I tell anyone I am considering a calibration, they say I'm nuts and that if it's so useful, there would be more than 0.0001% or whatever the number is, who get it done.
post #60 of 373
Once again, I have to ask, why not post a photo...
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

*yawn*. SOme of you should really read posts before posting these things. I already stated that taking pics can never accurately show the problem. And njera doesn't comprehend, apparently, that someone already EXAMIEND the tv and wouldn't admit there is a problem, so yes when nobody will tell the problem the only CHOICE is to start replacing parts. Im sure in your example they would try whatever also rather than do nothing. Also, I said I never DID use controlCAL. I said the original owner did, so I would have to figure out if anyone even still CHECKS anything at the site to sell me a license key AND I would have to figure out where to get the proper cables, converters, etc... But how is that too much trouble if it will fix the set, you ask? Because it WON'T fix the set, just like none of the other suggestions fixed it either. Thinking resetting the set will fix it is like saying resetting a SOny led will make the flashlighting disappear.
You've got to give us something to work with here. This isn't a game of twenty questions you know. Is it because your photography skills are as lacking as your attitude? Can it show the problem at all? Have you tried photographing a test pattern with grey scale such as this one: testchart (1).png 6086k .png file ???
Are you suggesting that the photos from this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/920011/official-pioneer-kuro-pictures-thread/6160_40#post_23633040 are fake or photoshopped?
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