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Kaleidescape Cinema One...the cost of entry just got a whole lot cheaper ............. - Page 2

post #31 of 194
Thanks. Now it makes sense. I think 12K is the cost for cinema one solution or go with $17K for a premier solution.
post #32 of 194
On the K scape site, there is some chatter that the carousel requirement is going to ease. I believe at least one studio has backed off. I am willing to wait a bit, to see if anything transpires here. I have a Dune setup, but it isn't all that wife and nanny friendly.
post #33 of 194
But it means you must have acces to the KScape digital store, you must repurchase the Blu-Ray title again for $1.99, and then you have to have a large download limit as you have to download the copy from KScape to go disc free, and then you have to delete the disc Blu-Ray copy as opposed to the downloaded version from your server.. So a few caveats currently.

I don't mind paying the fee to go "disc free" from the carousel, but would rather use my own disc, and not my download limit (even if I had access to the store).
post #34 of 194
On download limit, I was pleasantly surprised to see Comcast in US removing its 250 Gigabyte/month cap. So I proceeded to download the *70 gigabyte* Blade Runner to my Cinema One which included all three versions!

Our download speed is as high as 70 Mbits/sec (over my home wireless link no less) which is 1.5X of a Blu-ray disc. So it is somewhat comparable to ripping the disc. By scheduling bunch of downloads overnight, you don't even notice the time.
post #35 of 194
Interesting.

You know you can build your own and store a lot more than 100 BD rips. A 32TB NAS costs under $3k. If you build it yourself, you can build a nice system to do this for under $4k. Total $7k, and upgradable.

The software is in some ways better than the K software, some ways not as good, but you don't have to have the disc in anything in order to do this.

Remember, there is NOTHING ILLEGAL about copying your own discs! Where K ran into problems is that they joined the Blu-Ray Disc Association, got the technical documents and signed the contract stating they would not allow copying of any media using their hardware - oops! There's is legal problem which they stupidly created, not a criminal one.

BTW; You can have the following features, and more for far less than K.

Remote Play over the Internet to any remote location
Full iPad or Android Control
As many "extenders" as you would like - cheap!
Additional Music features
Sorting and Organizing beyond K's features
100% Full Resolution Playback
4k Up-sampling
a Lot more!

Full Upgradability!
Integration with Internet Content and Downloads!
Full DVR capabilities and Integration as well!
post #36 of 194
I agree with your assessment.

All I would like to say is some folks prefer to have a turn key solution - a) due to lack of diy skills or b) lack of time or a combination of both. So K serves a purpose.

I am also of the opinion K is more wife and kid friendly. In my house it may be different. My wife is technically very capable compared to me.
post #37 of 194
There are a number of companies, mine included, which can provide this as a turnkey solution with much better capabilities, as well as upgradeability, etc. for a cost competitive, or less than K, depending upon what you want/need.

As I've said for quite a while, there are a lot of very uneducated people out there buying gear, who want to stay uneducated. For them K is the perfect product. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them, it is just that they want something, regardless of cost, which comes with the impression of some sort of bullet-proof support.

K has been on the ropes for a number of years. When they are gone, and they will be, you are SOL. Other solutions do not rely upon the company's success or failure and will work far into the future.

Seems like a better solution to me.
post #38 of 194
Thread Starter 
Peter

Sure you can setup a 32 gig NAS with regular drives for 3k.

But unless you use Enterprise drives in a Raid 6 array you kidding yourself and everyone else here.

Are you going to support your NAS systems with a 5 year warranty?

If you system crashes; whats your recover option? Re create your NAS and reload all your DVD and Blu-Ray including the rentals that you illegally copied?

K has a full restoration process of your library available.

Can you do digital downloads to your systems via your software?

Lets see K has been dying for what 8 years now? Whats going to happen to your customers if you go out of business or sell out due to health reasons.

There are other solutions out there, you are correct, and I am not trying to get into a pissing argument.

But everything has a caveat.

Guys you get what you pay for.
post #39 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm007 View Post


Guys you get what you pay for.

That's kind of the point though - with Kaleidascape you don't! . . . You appear to get far less than you've paid for.

Don't get me wrong, if they opened up their system to accept standard files from a standard NAS I'd jump in with both feet and buy a player, purely for that lush interface.

But beyond that interface and a bit of automation, that would save me perhaps 3 minutes per disc, I simply fail to see what the extra five grand is bringing me?!
post #40 of 194
PeterS,

What is your company?

I would be interested in evaluating it.
post #41 of 194
Its the last one in my signature, Blue Smoke.

Currently redoing our web-site, so no updates there - more about our audio products at the moment. Shoot me a PM and we can take this off-line.

Peter
post #42 of 194
Same old arguments surface every year, "I don't get it"...., "I don' see the value"...."I can build the same.." Blah, blah, blah.....

Fine, no problem, don't buy it, build your own. For those of us that did buy into K, we found the value proposition acceptable, simple as that.....



Jim



(Disclosure: Yes, I'm also completely biased, I like the company, the people that work there, and the products. I also own a company that sells K. BTW, I was a K owner before I allowed my company to sell the product)
post #43 of 194
Please help me make sure I understand this new player. Even when you select a movie, you still need to put your disc in this drive or have a vault...correct?
post #44 of 194
Peter

Like I said there is a market for K products.

I disagree on K's viability. They have survived so long and they have as much possibility of success like any other company.

I will also be interested in learning about your products.

If I have to give an example its apple os versus android os.

People (vast majority prefer) Apple OS even though its not as rich in capabilities against Android, but very easy to use. I again would refrain saying they are not educated. Its just the choice they make.

Cheers
post #45 of 194
I've viewed K-scope from afar (because I can't afford it wink.gif ). Even at 8K, that's expensive. However, I love the concept - as I've turned my HTPC into my main prepro. I still put the disc into my BD drive on my machine and play BD's, I've ripped my music to my NAS and I'm very satisfied.

What I see with the K-scope is that I still have to rely on someone else to fix something when it gets broken. As a computer tech, I fix my own gear and I make sure I have backups (because eventually - all HDD's fail). I like the ideal of everything being at the K-Store for instant retrieval - that would be a big selling point to many - but not 8k worth for me. For a person that tinkers - it may be a pain to re-rip, but you'd do it if you had to.

For people that have that type of cash, I see the K-scope as a pleasant, turnkey device that will bring simplicity and convenience to their entertainment experience, nothing wrong with it at all. However for those who have the DIY bug, and are techies at heart....you'd just do it yourself ... even if you had the cash. cool.gif
post #46 of 194
I briefly considered a K Cinema One but ended up going with DVDFab, a 12TB NAS and a Popcorn Hour A400. Certainly not turn-key but I'm very happy with the results. The A400 comes with a nice iPad app that lets me browse cover art to choose what I want to play. I have this integrated with iRule and it all works really nicely.

Cheers,
post #47 of 194
Yes, lots of off-the-shelf and customized solutions at costs much less and capabilities much more than K.

Where do you go if K disappears? Nowhere.
Where do you go if these other solutions disappear? Everywhere, they are all standards based.

Enterprise drives vs. Standard drives are warranty based. Agreed 5-year warranty is best. Raid 6 is also best, as two drives can die and the system is still fault tolerant.

A lot can be done and improved on K. Remove restrictions of use, etc.

Not saying there isn't a market for K,, there is, but don't think it is worth what it costs.
post #48 of 194
Can't delete my posts (as far as I can tell.) So I edit this one out.
Edited by Brian Hampton - 11/19/13 at 8:27am
post #49 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by rramacha View Post


I disagree on K's viability. They have survived so long and they have as much possibility of success like any other company.

Well,.. I don't agree with that. They have had constant legal trouble because they have constantly pushed the limits of what they can legally do. I'm very surprized they have lasted this long and it's hard for me to imagine repeat customers because when I remember the types of systems they sold years ago... I would be very angry if I bought into their products.

For $45 you can get a blu ray player that gives access to Vudu and have a very comparable system, maybe a better system. Vudu isn't going anywhere, it's Walmart and there's a bit of reliability there.

I never understood how that company survived but I wouldn't be surprised if they folded any minute now.

--Brian
post #50 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Personally $8K to store 100 movies seems steep. More capacity. In today's age of 3 terabyte hard drives for under $100 I'd have bitten for 300-400 movie storage for $8K

We'll see what comes down the line or maybe I'm just cheap.

Yeah,... I got over a thousand Blu Rays it would cost quite a lot for me to have the luxary of not putting the discs into the player.
Edited by Brian Hampton - 11/19/13 at 8:07am
post #51 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm007 View Post

Guys you get what you pay for.

My personal life experience is unless you do some research you more often get ripped off.


-Brian
Edited by Brian Hampton - 11/19/13 at 8:28am
post #52 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

Well,.. I don't agree with that. They have had constant legal trouble because they have constantly pushed the limits of what they can legally do. I'm very surprized they have lasted this long and it's hard for me to imagine repeat customers because when I remember the types of systems they sold years ago... I would be very angry if I bought into their products.

For $45 you can get a blu ray player that gives access to Vudu and have a very comparable system, maybe a better system. Vudu isn't going anywhere, it's Walmart and there's a bit of reliability there.

I never understood how that company survived but I wouldn't be surprised if they folded any minute now.

--Brian

Brian

One thing I love about this country is every body is entitled to their opinion. I still feel they are trying to stay right side of law and have every chance of succeeding. I am not a dealer and not a customer yet either. I will eventually get their system unless something else more turn key comes up. I have also looked around companies like Vidabox and they look very interesting as well.

Cheers
post #53 of 194
I believe that K scape will likely never officially clear up its legal battles. If they got the all clear, I think you would see multiple copy cat services pop up, maybe just extensions of online services.

Despite the cost, I will likely get a K system at some point. I own all my media, so if they fold, I have lost the time of duplication. I will buy simply for the ease of use. More importantly, ease of use by the wife, nanny and kid.

I won't call the service good value, but their HDrive warranty is best of class. They will even send you a swap out server, if your server fails or you want to upgrade. I think they need a mobile application and better processing through their players vs the pass through of high resolution audio codecs.

I do find the price of the carousel to be ridiculously over priced. I suspect if they lowered the price of the carousel, they would sell a significantly higher number of units.

I should note that I have a Dune system. It's been fine, but certainly not wife and nanny friendly..
Edited by yetis - 11/19/13 at 4:09pm
post #54 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by yetis View Post

I should note that I have a Dune system. It's been fine, but certainly not wife and nanny friendly..

Why is it not friendly ?

Cheers,
post #55 of 194
Well, it hasn't been 100% stable, so it needs the occasional reboot. Then it relies on a third party software interface, to provide a graphic interface similar to K. This requires that you rip and scrape, which is a giant pain in the arse. Duplication can picky, but I eventually got to slysoft and found their software the one that the Dune most often recognized.

This compares to adding a disk and if it doesn't work, sending it to K.
post #56 of 194
No argument on adding disks not being friendly ! I have a button in iRule to jump to NMJ Navigator, browse cover art, choose disk, press play and away goes the A400. The only thing I'm not 100% happy about is that NMJ Navigator doesn't provide a button to jump back to the calling app, so getting back to iRule involves going to home and then into iRule.

Cheers,
post #57 of 194
I have a demo scheduled for later today of a K system at my house: always wanted one...
post #58 of 194
Congratulations. Lets know
post #59 of 194
I got to see the Cinema 1 yesterday: this unit is new: released in August it has a built in hard drive that holds approx 100 BD movies (it can also hold CD's or DVD's: BD storage space requires 6 times more space than a DVD)

The unit has a single HDMI out, a USB and Ethernet connector, and analog and digital audio connectors: it has a fan that seems reasonably quiet: it is rack mountable but requires a Middle Atlantic RSH: all my rack components are black: so I am not sure I would rack mount it

It has a single slot for an optical disc

The Cinema 1 requires that a BD disc be in the slot in order to play the movie to satisfy the copy protection laws: that is why they offer the Vault: it holds 320 discs: they can be ripped to the Cinema 1 HD within the limit stated above: once you fill up the HD, additional discs will appear on the splash screen but the play options will be greyed out. The vault is only a carousel: no HD in the Vault.

The other option is to buy and download BD movies from K to the Cinema 1 HD: the special offer they have gives you 50 free movies that you have to select by 31 Dec: you can download them at any time even after 31 Dec

You can also add a second Cinema 1 to your system: this doubles the storage space and allows for a second zone of playback that can be controlled independently

These units are their 'low cost' models: the M700, part of their Premiere line, has expandable storage and a much higher price of entry

The Cinema 1 gives the full experience of the K GUI and screens which are very impressive: the iPad app worked well, and you can bring up a movie bookmarked to start after the FBI warning and all the trailers almost immediately: you can also select scenes, bookmarked by K, quickly

You really have to figure out your needs to decide what to buy: for example I have over 100 BD discs: if I wanted them all on the K system I could buy the Cinema 1 and the Vault: load them into the Vault which would fill up the Cinema 1 HD: it almost makes more sense to buy the Cinema 1 only and take the 50 free movies from the K store: a Vault can be added later but you lose the combo price discount if you do not buy them together...decisions, decisions...

I hope I got all this right: maybe K owners can jump in and help with anything I missed...
post #60 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

.......The other option is to buy and download BD movies from K to the Cinema 1 HD: the special offer they have gives you 50 free movies that you have to select by 31 Dec: you can download them at any time even after 31 Dec...........These units are their 'low cost' models: the M700, part of their Premiere line, has expandable storage and a much higher price of entry.......


Couple of quick points: When I last checked for a client, the 50 free movies had to be selected (for download) by Dec. 31st. Of course that might have changed, but if important to someone, I'd confirm the end date. The M700 is a Vault, exactly like the DV700 Vault with the exception of a KPlayer being built into the M700. It is not a Server (that would be a 1U Server or a 3U Server) and has no "expandable storage". Like the DV700, it holds 320 BR discs (I indicate "BR" because there is no need to store DVD and CD's).



Jim
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