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Kaleidescape Cinema One...the cost of entry just got a whole lot cheaper ............. - Page 3

post #61 of 194
^^^

that is the way I understand it...

I ordered the Cinema One bundle with the Vault: dealer gave me a good price and kicked in air shipping (ships from Ca) so hopefully I will see it early next week: already got activation instructions from K smile.gif

btw: no connection to K
post #62 of 194
Your summary is right on the money Mark. I currently have a Cinema One without the vault. If I want to play a disc from my library I use the slot. But otherwise, buying movies online. I will probably get a Vault soon.
post #63 of 194
Congrats Mark. I've been with K almost from the very beginning, and I'd give up anything in my current AV systems before I'd give up K.smile.gif





Jim
post #64 of 194
question:

I plan to use an HDMI splitter on the One output so I can feed the HDMI audio to a Marantz 8801 processor and the other output for video thru a Gefen 8x8 matrix switch:

any issue doing this?

I got my tracking number and should have both pieces tomorrow smile.gif

tia
post #65 of 194
Awesome Mark. I look forward to your thoughts once all hooked up as well.

I think the only potential issue with an HDMI switcher is if you have both the Marantz and your end monitor (connected to your Gefen) on at the same time... If one has a lower native resolution, that will be the resolution that is outputted from the K. I guess you'll soon find out.smile.gif
post #66 of 194
I installed and activated the Cinema One and Vault today: after dealing with Escient and Sony ES BD changers, this platform installs and activates flawlessly: the Vault was installed in the rack (M/A Slim 5 /21 inch deep) : not sure about where to install the Cinema One yet

loaded 4 BD discs into the Vault: the import process will take several hours...so far so good...smile.gif

the first attempt using an HDMI splitter did not work: could not get HD audio unless the K HDMI was connected direct to 8801 processor
post #67 of 194
IMHO - The Cinema is a bait to get people moving to the 3U Server...
It did work for me - I went from Cinema 1 to 3U Server with 8 disks 4TB each and the Vault IN 3 DAYS.
The best equipment I added to my Theater in a long time is the Kescape System. I have loaded 320 Blu Rays in my 3 U server - bought about 70 discs out of these 320 from K Escape's ultraviolet store and have 250 slots used and 70 open in my Vault - the 3U server still has space for 320 Blu Rays.
The Cinema One alone is not worth it - I found it within three days of use - it needs a vault !!
But once you get the Cinema One and the Vault and find out how good the K Escape system is - best to get the 3U server which can have storage for upto 1200 Blu Rays because with Cinema One you are restricted to 100 discs Only.
So in summary - the K Escape system is simply awesome - if you are strapped for time and want to get a movie going quick - the K Escape has the movie ready for you. These days with movies being 2 to 3 hours long - I can watch a movie say 1 hour - Hit Intermission on K Escape and catch the balance another day. The utility of the theater goes through the roof...
Then there is the ability to switch from one disc to another or to favorite scenes in a movie lightening fast - and that is pure fun.
As I get new movies I just keep loading them on the K Escape - as I watch them - I keep the ones I feel I will re watch on the server and delete the rest and take the discs out of the vault. Before this I would buy movies which would sit in shrink wraps while I bought other new ones and they sat around too. And then I had movies I would love to re watch (or at least scenes of it such as Kill Bill my all time fav) and it was too cumbersome to use my Oppo to play them. Mind you with the 3U and the Vault combo you would need to keep a tray playable bly ray also in the system (I have a oppo) as the only way this system will play is when the movies is loaded on the 3U which can take 1 to 2 hours.
How did I live without the K Escape...
Edited by Ash Sharma - 11/25/13 at 5:27pm
post #68 of 194
Wow. Tell me...

Can you simultaneously output 1080P via HDMI and analog video at 480i? I have a low def video distribution system that would really benefit from such. Thanks.
post #69 of 194
Hi All - I am available through most of today to answer questions so fire away.

Ash: it sounds like you need an M500 player which has an integrated disc tray that can be used to playback from optical media without first importing. You get the full Kaleidescape experience from the disc: the movie guide lookup, 'play movie' which bypasses ads/warnings/trailers, and all of the control system events (aspect ratio, movie has started, movie in credits, etc).

Mark: there is way to force the Cinema One to send HD audio that may resolve your HDMI DA issue. See Settings->Audio->Advanced and change the HDMI Capability Override from "auto detect (default)" to "receiver supports all audio formats". Similarly there is a video override under Settings->Video->Video Mode. Change the Video Resolution from "use highest available (default)" to 1080p or 1080p, allow 1080p24 depending on your display capabilities.

Jeff: the Cinema One only has an HDMI output due to the forthcoming analog sunset rules. The M300, M500, and M700 players do have composite video outputs that will function for players sold prior to 12/31/2013. Section 2.2.2.2 of the AACS Compliance Rules requires that no player manufactured or sold after December 31, 2013 allow Blu-ray playback over any analog video output.
post #70 of 194
Hi Craig,


I have a few questions: I am starting to look into purchasing a Cinema One. Looks like a great product

(1) I would like to output the HDMI 1080p to two output devices. A plasma via its built in inputs and a Projector via Classe AVP processor. Can a splitter be incorporated successfully? We do most of outr viewing on the Pioneer Plasma but do like the theater experience with a larger group.

(2) Are there plans to allow for more storage beyond adding another Cinema One. If o, what sizes are you thinking of and how soon will in come to market.

(3) Best way to control the K from two different locations(maybe others can chime in on this topic)

(4) Will other studios be coming on board beside Lions gate and WB soon.

(5) Are all current and past Vaults compatible with the Cinema One?

(6) Are package discount dealer specific... I dont understand the difference between gold, and Platinum dealers.

(7) Do they all do in home demos?

(8) Average time to download and import(from Store) dvd/BR media?

Thanks in advance
post #71 of 194
(1) I would like to output the HDMI 1080p to two output devices. A plasma via its built in inputs and a Projector via Classe AVP processor. Can a splitter be incorporated successfully? We do most of outr viewing on the Pioneer Plasma but do like the theater experience with a larger group.

I personally haven't tried an HDMI Distribution Amp (splitter), but our players are used regularly behind HDMI Matrix Switches. See my answer above in a previous post regarding some audio and video overrides that can be used to address EDID issues that can come into play in this configuration.

(2) Are there plans to allow for more storage beyond adding another Cinema One. If o, what sizes are you thinking of and how soon will in come to market.

We operate like Apple in that we don't announce our future product plans in advance. Adding a second Cinema One doubles the storage capacity and provides a second independent zone of audio/video. The Premiere line features expandable storage servers, redundancy, and more than two zones.

(3) Best way to control the K from two different locations(maybe others can chime in on this topic)

You can control Kaleidescape players using (a) the included handheld remote control via IR, (b) the optional child remote via IR, (c) the Kaleidescape iPad app via TCP/IP, or (d) a universal remote or control system. The iPad app allows you to select which player you are controlling and is fantastic for selecting scenes and songs. I use it with the TV off to listen to specific songs from concert discs - just picked up Jeff Beck : Live at Ronnie Scott's and the new Rush Blu-ray. We didn't have the Rush disc cataloged yet, but I just entered the UPC code on the screen and the movie guide team will go get the disc, enter all of the info, and bookmark the songs and start of the concert in a couple of days.

The movie store can be accessed via any web browser and purchased movies download to up to five Kaleidescape systems.

(4) Will other studios be coming on board beside Lions gate and WB soon.

We currently have titles from Warner, New Line, and Lionsgate studios available for download from our online store. Where the movie is listed as HD, it is in full Blu-ray quality and in many cases includes UltraViolet™ rights for mobile and computer playback. I cannot comment on future studio agreements.

(5) Are all current and past Vaults compatible with the Cinema One?

The Cinema One is compatible with the DV700 320-disc vault and the M700 can be used as a bulk-loader, but the integrated player does not function in a Cinema One system. The older vaults and loading devices are not compatible with the Cinema One.

(6) Are package discount dealer specific... I dont understand the difference between gold, and Platinum dealers.

Silver and above should have demo systems so they can show you the Kaleidescape Experience in their showrooms.

You should select your dealer based on his ability to provide the service level that you expect along with expertise on the other relevant portions of your system, especially the control system.

(7) Do they all do in home demos?

I recommend calling a couple of dealers in your area and asking them. Most dealers have their demo systems installed in their equipment racks and programmed into control systems, so it is difficult for them to provide in-home demos, but many do provide this service.

Our regional managers all have Cinema Ones in road cases so we can help out with this as well. I cover the Northeast region (New England, NY, NJ, PA, and Eastern Canada), so feel free to reach out to me if you are in that area and we'll set something up. Our web site has a dealer locator and a form for requesting an in-home audition.

(8) Average time to download and import(from Store) dvd/BR media?

Store download times vary based on your Internet connection download speed and the movie length and quality. I downloaded the Blu-ray quality version of 'Cool Hand Luke' over the weekend and it took 1 hour, 22 minutes at 40-Mbps on average. Long movies like 'The Hobbit - Extended Edition' at 115-GB with all of the supplements and DTS-HD 7.1 Master Audio would take more time.

It takes about 35 minutes to import a Blu-ray disc, 20 minutes to import a DVD, and about 15 minutes to import a CD. A scratched, dirty, or poorly-authored disc may take longer to import. Imports may also take longer when the import device is playing back content, if the network connection is not Gigabit, or if importing is done to a Cinema One connected via Wi-Fi.
post #72 of 194
the Vault has a very bright array of flashing LED lights: they flash blue when uploading: orange when network connectivity is lost...etc

problem is you cannot shut them off: you cannot dim them: that is a feature only in the Premiere line which is the similar Vault

so my Vault is installed next to my display: and this flashing light will continue to flash in an otherwise dark home theater...what is wrong with this picture...
post #73 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

the Vault has a very bright array of flashing LED lights: they flash blue when uploading: orange when network connectivity is lost...etc

problem is you cannot shut them off: you cannot dim them: that is a feature only in the Premiere line which is the similar Vault

so my Vault is installed next to my display: and this flashing light will continue to flash in an otherwise dark home theater...what is wrong with this picture...

If you go to the web interface under Settings - Components, there should be a setting to control the brightness of the front panel lights, including all the way off.
Is this really not there for the Cinema One? I can't imagine why it would be different from the Premiere line. Every one of my components - players, server - have this option.
post #74 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal87 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

the Vault has a very bright array of flashing LED lights: they flash blue when uploading: orange when network connectivity is lost...etc

problem is you cannot shut them off: you cannot dim them: that is a feature only in the Premiere line which is the similar Vault

so my Vault is installed next to my display: and this flashing light will continue to flash in an otherwise dark home theater...what is wrong with this picture...

If you go to the web interface under Settings - Components, there should be a setting to control the brightness of the front panel lights, including all the way off.
Is this really not there for the Cinema One? I can't imagine why it would be different from the Premiere line. Every one of my components - players, server - have this option.


I have been told by K that the option was intentionally left out of the Cinema One Vault...to keep it simple....even the manual that accompanies the Vault shows the menu to control the LED's,: but they do not appear on mine: I double checked this with Craig: I think I may return the Vault...
post #75 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I have been told by K that the option was intentionally left out of the Cinema One Vault...to keep it simple....even the manual that accompanies the Vault shows the menu to control the LED's,: but they do not appear on mine: I double checked this with Craig: I think I may return the Vault...

Wow...Intentionally left it out? If you return it then how are you planning to drive your (non-K Store) Blu ray content? I am considering the Vault with the Cinema one at some point... That feedback from K sure does put a dampner on a 5k+ loader. Is this to protect the Premier product line?
Edited by Aerialsound - 11/26/13 at 10:06pm
post #76 of 194
^^^

I have no answers for you:

the wife walked in the first night I was watching a movie and asked me what is that flashing blue light, and how can I watch a movie with it flashing right at the screen?

I have no answer for her either....to me it is a great product with a design oversight/ flaw that could be easily fixed by a firmware update (I think) but no interest by K to fix it
post #77 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I have been told by K that the option was intentionally left out of the Cinema One Vault...to keep it simple....even the manual that accompanies the Vault shows the menu to control the LED's,: but they do not appear on mine: I double checked this with Craig: I think I may return the Vault...

You would think that they would use the same software. In that case, it would have to be an active decision to remove a feature already written into the software. Just does not make sense.

Anyways, I have not been able to understand the whole Cinema One concept. I just don't get purchasing a Kaleidescape system and being limited to 100 Blu-rays. Even then, you either need a vault or are limiting yourself to the limited content from the Kaleidescape store. (No interest in DVDs personally) That's just me.

If it were me, I would keep the vault, return the Cinema One, get one of the full servers and a few players. Enjoy and be done. Again, that's just me.
post #78 of 194
removing the Vault front cover and applying 'light dims' (light dimming mylar sheet) over the LED's (some 24 arrays) mitigates the issue for now...
post #79 of 194
There is not a Cinema One vault vs Premier vault. The DV700 is the DV700 and it operates the same with both servers. The mykaleidescape.com/installer portal should allow for dimming on the DV700- that interface is supposed to be universal to kaleidescape systems.

I believe Craig is actually my rep, so perhaps he can consult with support and confirm, but Mark, you shouldn't have to do anything to the hardware to dim or even turn off the LEDs
post #80 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

There is not a Cinema One vault vs Premier vault. The DV700 is the DV700 and it operates the same with both servers. The mykaleidescape.com/installer portal should allow for dimming on the DV700- that interface is supposed to be universal to kaleidescape systems.

I believe Craig is actually my rep, so perhaps he can consult with support and confirm, but Mark, you shouldn't have to do anything to the hardware to dim or even turn off the LEDs

Don

That is what I thought : and the manual that comes with my Vault is for the DV700 and shows the extra menus that are missing

but apparently my unit has different firmware installed to 'simplify it'

so the only menu tab in the Vault browser is for movies and music: none of the other tabs appear...and Craig has confirmed the difference
post #81 of 194
I'm going to have to talk to support on that one; if it was intentional, that was a stupid decision!

I've been a beta tester for Cinemascape, the K store,and the ipad app, and generally speaking when dealers clamor enough for features- they get them.

Who did you pruchase from? That dealer can access the installer settings if they are on the same network.

Dan
post #82 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS View Post

Interesting.

You know you can build your own and store a lot more than 100 BD rips. A 32TB NAS costs under $3k. If you build it yourself, you can build a nice system to do this for under $4k. Total $7k, and upgradable.

The software is in some ways better than the K software, some ways not as good, but you don't have to have the disc in anything in order to do this.

Remember, there is NOTHING ILLEGAL about copying your own discs! Where K ran into problems is that they joined the Blu-Ray Disc Association, got the technical documents and signed the contract stating they would not allow copying of any media using their hardware - oops! There's is legal problem which they stupidly created, not a criminal one.

BTW; You can have the following features, and more for far less than K.

Remote Play over the Internet to any remote location
Full iPad or Android Control
As many "extenders" as you would like - cheap!
Additional Music features
Sorting and Organizing beyond K's features
100% Full Resolution Playback
4k Up-sampling
a Lot more!

Full Upgradability!
Integration with Internet Content and Downloads!
Full DVR capabilities and Integration as well!

Yes, it will be just as easy to use as Kayak.com for booking a trip and will give you better insurance at a lower cost... once we get the glitches worked out.

Seriously, a list of features NEVER includes bugs, troubleshooting or incompatibilities. I went the DIY route many years ago. I got a Kaleidescape and have not had a regret once in over 10 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

Well,.. I don't agree with that. They have had constant legal trouble because they have constantly pushed the limits of what they can legally do. I'm very surprized they have lasted this long and it's hard for me to imagine repeat customers because when I remember the types of systems they sold years ago... I would be very angry if I bought into their products.

For $45 you can get a blu ray player that gives access to Vudu and have a very comparable system, maybe a better system. Vudu isn't going anywhere, it's Walmart and there's a bit of reliability there.

I never understood how that company survived but I wouldn't be surprised if they folded any minute now.

--Brian

Sorry you cannot understand or imagine, but here you don't have to imagine. I have been a repeat customer. I have purchased 5 servers now. I started with a 5U server and one playback zone. I later upgraded to 3 playback zones and added a second server. Then I added a 4th zone. After a while, I upgraded one of my 5U servers to a 3U server. I sold my other 5U server and bought a second 3U server. I have purchased 6 new M-series bluray players (2 M500's, 2 M300's and 2 M700 Vaults.) Yesterday my Cinema One came in, which I will be using for a remote residence that I don't want to invest in a full premier system in. Now you don't have to imagine a repeat customer because you now know who one is. As far as "the types of systems they sold years ago" I think perhaps you are confused because they are the same types they are selling today, except they now are Bluray instead of DVD.

For less than the price of a Tesla, you can buy a Leaf or a Volt. GM and Nissan are not going anywhere, but that doesn't mean they are better or even a better value than the Tesla. Same principle here.

You mention constant legal trouble because of constantly pushing the limits of what they can legally do. Name one single legal issue they have aside from their one court battle with the DVD CCA. Seriously man, one single lawsuit isn't constant legal trouble. Regarding your assertion that there is nothing illegal about copying your own discs, the DMCA does indeed say otherwise. While you feel that people won't be sued for copying their own discs, that doesn't mean you are not violating the law. One could just as easily say that if they grow their own pot in the closet and smoke it in the basement, you won't get caught. That doesn't mean the same thing as "not illegal."

I even went as far as help a friend build a system that will do what the Kaleidescape does. It was not a one hour process. It took time, which I actually value doing other things. I don't look at it as a hobby to have fun wasting my time screwing with a computer to try and get it to do what I want. Setting up my Cinema One took all of about 10 minutes from opening the box to playing video on the screen. Also, with the Black Friday sale on the Kaleidescape store, I was able to buy 100 Bluray titles for $150. No vault needed. By the next morning, I already had 14 BluRays on the server and more being downloaded. If you don't understand how a company like that can survive, then maybe you just don't understand the business model they have.

They are successful. They have been in business for over 10 years. There have been numerous competitors who promised to do more for less. They are all gone now. Kaleidescape is still there and they are growing. They have fantastic customer service and a wonderful product that just works right out of the box and is reliable. They are the only home theater component I have ever purchased that my wife actually loves. When we moved, she told me it was the last thing I was allowed to pack up and had the be the first thing I set up in the new house.

I have not been on the forum for a while, but as I recall, we didn't have a lot of people coming into the $20,000+ part of the forum and talk about how a $45 component was comparable and maybe better.
post #83 of 194
$100 for 150bd titles damn!!
post #84 of 194
Mr Poindexter,

Good Points, thank you.

Your correct you don't often see people saying a $45 component is as good or better than a $20,000. When it's true though people tend to feel strongly about it. biggrin.gif

I'm glad you are happy with yours though. It isn't for me but neither is having a restored classic 70's muscle car. If I knew someone who had one though, I would love to go just admire it .... maybe it would be the same for this too.


-Brian
post #85 of 194
Lol. Whilst an easy mistake to make it is not correct to compare K with a PC media solution. Mr P makes some great points but it is always easy to see those who have tried K as part of an integrated install and those who have simply read the website before making their own incorrect conclusion.

I don't know of any install product that people enjoy more when installed in their system and I do also know many others who tried many other solutions before making the conclusion that for movie server there is only one serious contender.
post #86 of 194
I have tried most of the other solutions: an HTPC (bought from Craig when he had his own business 11 years ago), an Escient system with several changers, the Sony ES BD changer, the Olive 06HD music server and some other gear I can't remember.

Now Escient, the Sony changer, and Olive are largely gone from the market, and K has a mature product with a really elegant solution and hardware: now I have a changer that can accept optical discs nearly as fast as I can insert them, HD cover art, the ability to switch movies or music quickly, and an impressive GUI: the few nitpicks I have are far outweighed by what this system can do, so I have no regrets: I have spent a couple of days getting to know how the K works, and I still have to integrate it into my control system (RTI 2 way drivers) but I have little doubt I will keep both pieces.....but I do take note of Ash Sharma's comments in post 67:

IMHO - The Cinema is a bait to get people moving to the 3U Server...
It did work for me - I went from Cinema 1 to 3U Server with 8 disks 4TB each and the Vault IN 3 DAYS


this could happen to me as well wink.gif
post #87 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

Mr Poindexter,

Good Points, thank you.

Your correct you don't often see people saying a $45 component is as good or better than a $20,000. When it's true though people tend to feel strongly about it. biggrin.gif

I'm glad you are happy with yours though. It isn't for me but neither is having a restored classic 70's muscle car. If I knew someone who had one though, I would love to go just admire it .... maybe it would be the same for this too.


-Brian

I'm sorry, but did you really just compare VUDU to blu ray quality and suggest that it is 'as good or better'??? Have you seen VUDU or other STREAMING HD on a very large home theater screen? If you made this assertion based on interface alone, it is still questionable. If you made it based on quality, I think you're way out in left field.

I also think you've mixed your metaphors. I would liken Kaleidescape to my new 14 Carrera S and VUDU to the 70s muscle car.

Just MHO.

Kevin
Edited by Kevin Snyder - 12/1/13 at 9:40am
post #88 of 194
Edit- Re reading the thread, I guess I was saying that Blu Ray player with Vudu does give a somewhat comparable system. And that's fairly true. Vudu HDX isn't blu ray quality but it's good HD quality sometimes... I don't have much trouble watching it on my projection setup with 82" screen. I guess this was on my mind because that's what my neighbor decided to do. I just helped her buy a wifi BDP and it's pretty nice for her needs and wants. ($55)


I did notice that VUDU was mentioned in the Kaleidescape product posted in the link here... which was interesting.



I don't want to fight forever about things like this.... I've just simply felt the Kaleidescape products are tremendously over-priced to the point of being non relevant.

However, celebrites, atheletes, and mob kingpins have to have something to spend the big bucks on.

-Brian
Edited by Brian Hampton - 12/1/13 at 3:21pm
post #89 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post


.... I've just simply felt the Kaleidescape products are tremendously over-priced to the point of being non relevant.

However, celebrites, atheletes, and mob kingpins have to have something to spend the big bucks on.

-Brian

I don't fit any of these categories but I do like the K system...and the Cinema One solution even with a Vault is half the cost of their higher priced systems...

so far I loaded 34 BD, 16 DVD, and 213 CD's: I also downloaded/ upgraded several movies...storage wise this leaves room on the hard drive for 52 more BD, 290 more DVD, or 3241 more CD's

I have found the K also makes for a great CD music server: keep in mind you can remove DVD's and CD's from the Vault and they remain on the HD: you can delete any media from the HD to make room for other content, and double the storage space with a second Cinema One

I checked out upgrading to the Premiere series: I would keep the Vault (and they would presumably 'unlock it') and turn in the Cinema One for a 1 or 3U server with hard drives: this solution gives more memory in a RAID configuration, but is at least twice the price: I think I will keep what I have smile.gif
post #90 of 194
Hi,

honestly, I'm happy for anyone who likes the system. I never meant to debate it like I have.

It's not for me and I don't think it ever will be ... it's much cheaper but still very over-priced.... but that's only my view.


-Brian
Edited by Brian Hampton - 12/1/13 at 3:57pm
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