or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Digital projection cine 1000 led discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Digital projection cine 1000 led discussion - Page 3

post #61 of 211
Mike,

Were there specials on the other projectors they showed at CEDIA?
post #62 of 211
Interesting, I use my Planar 8150 every day, probably average around 3 hours on it (more on the weekends). I've never worried about hours at all, except I do avoid using it for short periods, but then again it's in the HT in the basement which isn't convenient for catching the weather or stuff like that.

So personally, for me, the life isn't really a factor. I mean I'd probably only pay $500 more for LED than UHP just for lamp life (the cost of a lamp or two). What interests me about LED is the picture quality. I've heard lots of things about LEDs, I've heard they have "3 chip" like color reproduction, I've heard they have great contrast, I've heard (being high end machines) they have great lenses/sharpness. This is what really interests me.

But then I take a step back, and look at the Cine 1000, it seems like another machine built on the same Delta design as the Planar 8150, Vivitek 9080, Runco 750, etc. Looking at the manual it's got almost exactly the same menus as my Planar, appears to have the same lens shift adjustment screws in the same place, similar amounts of lens shift, etc.

So, lets get this out of the way, I hear great things about the Cine 1000, I want one. The problem is, I'm unsure of what that goodness is in relation to... Lets take a step back and look at this somewhat objectively. Cine4home tested the Planar 8150 and the Vivitek 9080:
Vivitek 9080 Test
Planar 8150 Test

Also, seems the Vivitek hit right at the 600 Lumens the Cine 600 was rated at (570), so if the same is true of the Cine 1000, it would probably be over twice as bright as my Planar after a few hundred hours of lamp time on the Planar, so there's that too.

Native contrast measures almost identical (I'd say 2800 vs 2700 is within the margin of error), dynamic contrast is essentially the same with the Vivitek set to "1" (which I assume is equivalent to 4x on the Cine). At 8x it's about double the dynamic contrast but still only 23000:1.

I've read the "Infinity" setting is not really usable, I don't recall if the 2/8x setting has been reported as usable.

The big variable is the DMD, the Cine1000 is a lot newer, DC4 is available (I don't believe it was in the Planar 8150/Vivitek 9080 era), anyone know if the Cine is a DC4 machine? What's that worth if so (contrast/PQ wise)?

Like I said, I want one, but sitting, thinking about it as objectively as I can, I'm having a hard time seeing how it would be better than the Planar 8150 I've got, especially if they're both calibrated to the same 709 gamut. Lamp life is cool, but I could easily buy over 10 years worth of lamps for my Planar for less than the Cine's cost. The other thought in the back of my head questions whether those who are so enamored with these LED machines have seen other DLPs of similar quality, as in is the enamoration due to the LEDs or just a quality DLP machine.

I'm almost looking for someone to talk me into one of these. It's probably a good two or three years until 4K DLP arrives (maybe more than that) and over that time period, with the CEDIA special pricing on the Cine 1000, it wouldn't be a bad purchase, but it would have to be a pretty good step up in performance over what I already have. I wish I was closer to AVS so I could take a trip over and see in person. Unless anyone knows anywhere in/near Iowa that has one of these Delta platform LED machines on display.
post #63 of 211
Quote:
Were there specials on the other projectors they showed at CEDIA?

There is a special on the Titan LED !! eek.gifsmile.gif
post #64 of 211
Hi Craig,

Still trying to figure out the best approach. Ha! As great as the Titan LED was, its just a little bit out of my price range, or should I say insanely out of my price range. If it was in the 30's I would run to get one.
post #65 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

There is a special on the Titan LED !! eek.gifsmile.gif

It's not the same deal (price, not % off) as the Cine 1000 is it? wink.gif
post #66 of 211
Quote:
It's not the same deal (price, not % off) as the Cine 1000 is it?

HA - if it was, I'd buy two today ! However, if you have the cash laying around for a new Mercedes Benz, you could be driving some LED's in your theater instead.....................biggrin.gif
Quote:
Hi Craig,

Still trying to figure out the best approach. Ha! As great as the Titan LED was, its just a little bit out of my price range, or should I say insanely out of my price range. If it was in the 30's I would run to get one.

I'm going to call you shortly with an update.
post #67 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post


I'm almost looking for someone to talk me into one of these. It's probably a good two or three years until 4K DLP arrives (maybe more than that) and over that time period, with the CEDIA special pricing on the Cine 1000, it wouldn't be a bad purchase, but it would have to be a pretty good step up in performance over what I already have. I wish I was closer to AVS so I could take a trip over and see in person. Unless anyone knows anywhere in/near Iowa that has one of these Delta platform LED machines on display.

You should also take into account that there will be no rainbows, even if they don't bother you it will still produce a better viewing experience. From what I heard from standing next to the M150 at CEDIA last year, it ran quieter than a conventional single-chip. Of course that will be dependent on what the Cine 1000 sounds like and what you are used to.
I have been back and forth with various people on here in regards to whether LEDs calibrated to REC 709 will produce any difference in colour, difficult to say without doing a proper test. The LEDs I saw were probably a bit 'pumped up' colour wise but flesh-tones still looked natural. Whilst a setting like that isn't accurate, it might prove useful if you sometimes watch with some ambient light
post #68 of 211
One would expect the LED projectors to be quieter - since they don't generate nearly as much heat, I wouldn't think they would need as big a cooling fan.
post #69 of 211
There is about 5 cooling fans mines
post #70 of 211
Do they move as much air as a conventional lamp projector?

What did you do - tear it open and count the fans ??? smile.gif
post #71 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Do they move as much air as a conventional lamp projector?

What did you do - tear it open and count the fans ??? smile.gif

No, they are visible on the sides and back of the projector. Its probably more than 5. But its really quiet and it doesn't get hot at all.
post #72 of 211
Well, Mike and i apparently weren't the only ones impressed with this projector at Cedia - they are currently back ordered. The special price probably helped too. smile.gif
post #73 of 211
Any forum members interested in a special " group buy ", let Mike, JD or myself know. Soon.
post #74 of 211
Craig and I were talking about this one today. We are both surprised that no one in this thread has committed to of these, when you consider the image quality, brightness and price with CEDIA special. smile.gif
Reply
Reply
post #75 of 211
well for my part the "risk" at this point is too great. It just shares too many similarities with my current projector, the the "risk" that I'd basically just be buying the same picture quality I already have (or very close to it).
post #76 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

well for my part the "risk" at this point is too great. It just shares too many similarities with my current projector, the the "risk" that I'd basically just be buying the same picture quality I already have (or very close to it).

My comment was not directed at you. Just surprised that someone has not picked one f these up. If it provides the picture quality that you are currently getting with a long lasting LED light source, so you can use it like a TV, you know how good this is. At the CEDIA special price, makes this a stand out option.
Reply
Reply
post #77 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

My comment was not directed at you. Just surprised that someone has not picked one f these up. If it provides the picture quality that you are currently getting with a long lasting LED light source, so you can use it like a TV, you know how good this is. At the CEDIA special price, makes this a stand out option.

I think part of the issue is that 4K is RIGHT around the corner. The long lasting light source and other benefits the LEDs bring won't matter if you're someone who wants to upgrade to 4K within the next couple years.
post #78 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think part of the issue is that 4K is RIGHT around the corner. The long lasting light source and other benefits the LEDs bring won't matter if you're someone who wants to upgrade to 4K within the next couple years.

True, but if people don 't buy them in droves, it reduces your chances of picking one up cheap... I mean, 4k content won't be widely available for years, and will only make a difference if you sit less than a screen width away... This is a steal! Come on, help out a fellow used market scavenger wink.gif
post #79 of 211
I don't believe 4K will be as inexpensive as most people would like for several years. Rumor has it that 4K DLP will be available in 2014 or 2015 - in Titan class projectors. Without widespread 4K source material - 4K HDTV broadcasts? The nightly news in 4K ? I'm not holding my breath for that anytime soon. I have a feeling 1080p will still be perfectly fine for most people for 4 or 5 years.
post #80 of 211
UHD is going to be very limited for a couple of years and we might be 18-24 months away from it UHD BD also. I understand the concerns since we want 4K today for cheap and in two years JVC and Sony might offer us something reasonable priced. However, we might be 3-4 years away from watching movie releases on a weekly or monthly basis. By that time someone could be enjoying a worry free, maintenance free, projector daily with no desire to treat it like a normal projector
post #81 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

My comment was not directed at you. Just surprised that someone has not picked one f these up. If it provides the picture quality that you are currently getting with a long lasting LED light source, so you can use it like a TV, you know how good this is. At the CEDIA special price, makes this a stand out option.

Oh, and I didn't take it that way (I know it was a general comment) but since I was one who talked to you a bit, I thought I'd throw out my thoughts about why I'm holding off. As for lamp life, that doesn't really interest me at this point. I mean I basically use my Planar "like a TV" right now. Well, by that I mean I don't worry about putting hours on it in the least, I use it for hours every day. I do avoid turning it on for short periods (less than an hour say), but that doesn't really limit much since my HT isn't conveniently located for such short use. I run through lamps at about a rate of one a year, and at that rate and the ~$150 per lamp for bare OEM lamps, I'm looking at about $750 over the next 5 years in lamps.

Instant on and some of the utilitarian benefits of LED would be nice, but I'm really looking for an improvement in image quality in whatever I get at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think part of the issue is that 4K is RIGHT around the corner. The long lasting light source and other benefits the LEDs bring won't matter if you're someone who wants to upgrade to 4K within the next couple years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I don't believe 4K will be as inexpensive as most people would like for several years. Rumor has it that 4K DLP will be available in 2014 or 2015 - in Titan class projectors. Without widespread 4K source material - 4K HDTV broadcasts? The nightly news in 4K ? I'm not holding my breath for that anytime soon. I have a feeling 1080p will still be perfectly fine for most people for 4 or 5 years.

Yup, that's kind of where I'm at, unfortunately the Cine 1000 (unless I'm wrong, and I'd kind of love to be) looks like it's the same 6 year old design as the Planar 8150. I'd love a 4K DLP to be my next projector, but even if we step back a bit and assume that's many years away, I fully expect somebody (Sony probably) to have a good 4k machine available next year for the same cost as the Cine 1000 special pricing (they're pretty close MSRP this year).

I am curious what we really know about this machine.

Is it just the Cine 600/Q750i/9080 with brighter LEDs, or harder driven LEDs? Or is it something new?
How should we interpret the 10,000:1 contrast that DPI specifies? I know contrast specs don't mean much but looking at the manual it's got the "infinite" dynamic black setting that turns off the LEDs so they could ("rightfully") claim much higher contrast (IIRC the Mico 150 is spec'd at 100,000:1). The optimist in me wants to think this is DPI's spec without DB enabled, if that was the case I'd be much more interested.

Sorry if it seems like I'm railing on stuff, I don't really want to. I'm kind of bored with my current projector, I really want to be excited by a new one, but each year there just seems to be nothing that exciting. Sony's 4K machines are nice, but too expensive to excite me. JVCs just don't really change much every year (though their dynamic iris came close to changing my mind this year). DLPs been pretty stagnant, other than LED which seems to just be expensive for no apparent reason (eg the Vivitek 9080 was essentially twice as expensive as the essentially identical Planar 8150, just for having LEDs instead of a UHP lamp).
post #82 of 211
Just to be clear, the LED is not "instant on." There is a "warm up" period that seems shorter than a regular lamp (never timed it) but is by no means "instant." My flat panel LEDs take some time to turn on and the LED projector is no different. And even when the light is on the screen, there is a period of HDMI negotiation, etc.

There is, however, instant off with no fan running when off but i'm not sure anyone cares about this.

For me the advantage is I can leave it on for hours without worrying about the lamp or significant lumen deterioration. I can't believe your not losing significant lumens with a lamp. Colors and contrast are excellent. Picture is better than my previous Qualia 004. And for some reasons, LED projectors look brighter than they actually are. THis has been discussed numerous times on AVS - not sure there's a good answer.

THe only disappointment is that the lens is not quite as good as the Q004 lens which was truly extraordinary. It's not noticeable unless you've had a lens like the Q004 and even then it's very subtle. But you get what you pay for. And although it's very very good right out of the box, a custom calibration is recommended especially to maximize the black and white accuracy.

In summary, IMO, the picture is so much better than my Q004 that I would never look back. The ease of use and longevity of the LEDs has completely changed how I use my projector which for me resulted in a huge improvement in enjoyment. My custom installer recommended it for this reason and he was 100% correct.

One final note of personal opinion based on no facts: I think 4K is an interim step to the next standard of 8K which is already under discussion in Japan. For most people to get anything out of 4K they will need a huge screen or need to sit very close. I don't think many consumers have huge screens or will pay for huge screens until they are much, much cheaper and don't require light control, and I don't think they are able to sit any closer than they do today. Perhaps OLED is the answer. So IMO 8K may be necessary to see a difference on the size screens affordable by the average guy. Without a huge consumer market (not the people on this board), there will be little demand for 4K and little available reasonably priced content. Let's revisit this in 2 years and see if you're still interested in 4K. Until there is a huge consumer market with high speed internet (most have very slow connections today), a markedly visible image improvement on screen sizes used by the average consumer, and reasonable pricing of hardware, there will be little demand for 4K content. I hope the 4K enthusiasts don't beat me up (I doubt they're hanging around this forum) but let's face it they've been waiting nearly 2 years and there's still essentially no content.
Edited by Perfectionist2 - 10/6/13 at 7:50am
post #83 of 211
Perfect is correct it is not instant on but it seems like it compared to many other PJ's out there using DLP.

Not sure but I think the CINE 1000 is just jazzing an older design. Actually I thought the LED platform, same OEM, as Runco is only 4 years old not 6.
post #84 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Perfect is correct it is not instant on but it seems like it compared to many other PJ's out there using DLP.

Not sure but I think the CINE 1000 is just jazzing an older design. Actually I thought the LED platform, same OEM, as Runco is only 4 years old not 6.

Miles, it was good to run into you at CEDIA. Incidentally, we ran into each other going in and out of the Cine 1000 LED room. smile.gif
Reply
Reply
post #85 of 211
If you're saying that 8K will make a difference where 4K doesn't, that makes no sense.

4K is not worthwhile for most people because it's already past the limit of visual acuity for a practical screen size, and the smaller pixels of 8K will be even less perceptible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post

For most people to get anything out of 4K they will need a huge screen or need to sit very close. I don't think many consumers have huge screens or will pay for huge screens until they are much, much cheaper and don't require light control, and I don't think they are able to sit any closer than they do today. Perhaps OLED is the answer. So IMO 8K may be necessary to see a difference on the size screens affordable by the average guy.
post #86 of 211
MG aka ASS5,

Yes I recall. I remember I am not as bad as Haflich yet.

I am glad to see you are doing well at AVS keep up the good work.
post #87 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post

Just to be clear, the LED is not "instant on." There is a "warm up" period that seems shorter than a regular lamp (never timed it) but is by no means "instant." My flat panel LEDs take some time to turn on and the LED projector is no different. And even when the light is on the screen, there is a period of HDMI negotiation, etc.

I haven't actually timed it, but I think my Planar is somewhere between 30-60 seconds, while my Samsung LED LCD is <10, that is quite a difference.
Quote:
There is, however, instant off with no fan running when off but i'm not sure anyone cares about this.

It's nice, but like the "instant" on, it's not worth much to me in terms of cost differential.
Quote:
For me the advantage is I can leave it on for hours without worrying about the lamp or significant lumen deterioration. I can't believe your not losing significant lumens with a lamp. Colors and contrast are excellent. Picture is better than my previous Qualia 004. And for some reasons, LED projectors look brighter than they actually are. THis has been discussed numerous times on AVS - not sure there's a good answer.

Oh, I know I lose brightness, that's why I end up replacing my lamp about every 1000 hours or so. Somewhere around maybe 750ish I usually flip to high lamp, and "shortly" thereafter I replace it. My point is not that I don't lose brighness, or anything like that, it's just that there's really very little benefit to the lamp life for me from LED since I don't worry about lamp usage at all with my current machine. I don't avoid using it just to keep hours off the lamp. I wouldn't use an LED machine any/significantly more than I use my current projector.

As far as brightness, the "extra" perceived brightness is meaningless. What I mean is there's no reason to choose LED because it "looks" brighter, it's just nice to know when buying one that you can expect a bit more brightness than the measurements say, but I don't think it would be a differentiating/deciding factor vs UHP.
Quote:
One final note of personal opinion based on no facts: I think 4K is an interim step to the next standard of 8K which is already under discussion in Japan. For most people to get anything out of 4K they will need a huge screen or need to sit very close. I don't think many consumers have huge screens or will pay for huge screens until they are much, much cheaper and don't require light control, and I don't think they are able to sit any closer than they do today.

Who are we talking about when we say "many customers", in the mass market? No, most of the mass market will get nothing from 4K. But if you're talking about this forum, I'd guess most people in this subforum have screens large enough/sit close enough to get benefit from 4k.
Quote:
Perhaps OLED is the answer.

Until you can get roll-upable OLEDs in greater than 100" (and scope), it's not the answer for home theater.
Quote:
So IMO 8K may be necessary to see a difference on the size screens affordable by the average guy.

If you can't see the difference between 1080p and 2160p, you're not going to see it between 1080p and 8k, 8k will be an even more subtle difference and you'll have to sit incredibly close to see the benefits of 8k.
Quote:
Without a huge consumer market (not the people on this board), there will be little demand for 4K and little available reasonably priced content.

Don't underestimate the industry's desire/ability to generate demand. Nobody really needs 4k, but they'll sell it and the mass market will buy it just like they buy any other feature (whether they utilize it or not). They need another reason to sell everyone another copy of .
Quote:
Let's revisit this in 2 years and see if you're still interested in 4K. Until there is a huge consumer market with high speed internet (most have very slow connections today), a markedly visible image improvement on screen sizes used by the average consumer, and reasonable pricing of hardware, there will be little demand for 4K content. I hope the 4K enthusiasts don't beat me up (I doubt they're hanging around this forum) but let's face it they've been waiting nearly 2 years and there's still essentially no content.

1) There are other (potential) benefits to 4k than just resolution, ITU-R BT2020 specifies 10 and 12 bit encoding (smoother gradients) and a much wider gamut, so 4k, resolution aside could bring quality much closer to what we get at the theater than we do today.

2) I'm less interested in 4k content (resolution wise) than I am a 4k display. I can see the limits of 1080p right now where I sit, I look forward to 4k displays (even scaled content) to mitigate that. Combine that with potentially 10+ bit encoding and wider gamut, and I'm excited for 4k.

3) Maybe the biggest thing that has me excited for 4K is: New DMDs. TI has new consumer DMDs in the works for 4K. Will these bring contrast improvements? Other improvements? I hope so.
post #88 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Maybe the biggest thing that has me excited for 4K is: New DMDs. TI has new consumer DMDs in the works for 4K. Will these bring contrast improvements? Other improvements? I hope so.

Really? News to me.

I imagine the push would be to capitalize on desire for 4K as you said above.

I wouldn't be surprised if CR actually goes down, as for the same size chip there will be 4X as many mirror edges to diffract/scatter light.

It would nice if they come up with a way to mitigate that and apply it to 2K chips.
post #89 of 211
As i posted before, i own a Runco Q-750D LED projector and have been running it an average of 10~12 hours daily for the past two years without any perceived loss of contrast or color change due to aging; The machine runs quietly and provides an extremely sharp picture without any pixel misalignment or chromatic aberrations in the lens which coupled with those "LED colors" often times give images an almost 3D effect
It takes almost one minute from first turn on until picture appears onscreen and what few people are aware is the reason why it still takes that "long" : the Runco line of LED projectors use three tristimulus sensors for each R/G/B LED module to balance the overall color output to 6.5000K as precise as possible before it illuminates the DMD chip. For example, if it turns out that the red LED chip is aging faster than the other two LED chips and therefore changing its spec'd color output, the sensor senses that and automatically takes steps to adjust it accordingly.
I don't know if that is a standard feature in the Digital Projection and Vivitek LED projectors as well, but i gladly take it and appreciate it every time i turn on my pj and have to wait almost one minute, not because of necessary "warm up" period for the LED chipset but because of a design feature that afaik is not offered by any other manufacturer.
Keep in mind that this feature does not mean that onscreen color is calibrated to 6.500k temperature; It is done internally to make sure of overall color purity before the light reaches the DMD imaging chip.
I am pretty sure that my Runco uses the DarkChip4 DMD chip from Texas Instruments and i imagine that so do the other clones; My pj has one air intake fan on left side and two exhaust fans on right side located toward the back of the case and after using a flashlight i was able to see through the fine mesh filter that the intake fan has a small amount of attached dust whereas i could not see any dust accumulation on the exhaust fans, and now i am trying to find out the best way to unscrew the case cover so that i may carefully vacuum its inside.
The poorly conceived remote control that came with my unit stopped working last week and i just contacted the local Runco dealer about a replacement under warranty, as mine expires on 10/17/2013 and if i don't hear from them this week i'll call them again to remind them of the expiration date, and they better not give me any hassles.
I always use my pj at its native LED color spectrum; My litmus test for onscreen color is human skin tones : as long as skin tones from a variety of people appear correct and believable onscreen i am fine with the other colors, and rarely i felt the need to use the color control to decrease saturation.
The most powerful phlatlight LED chipset available from Luminus Devices used in these top-of-the-line LED projectors is still the same PT-120 chipset used in my Runco Q-750D and if the Digital Projection Cine 1000 claims 1.000 lumen of onscreen brightness i would like to know which "secret sauce" they used to accomplish that; Perhaps running the LED chipset near its maximum output at the cost of lower estimated lifetime and much increased internal heat ? More fans to take care of that ? Someone came up with an explanation for that in one of the LED threads but it seemed a little strange and i cannot remember it.
I would love to get one of those mesmerizing 4K UHD LCD 84" behemoths to replace my beloved Runco but after reading the thread on the LG model and noticing pictures showing edge light bleeding, screen uniformity issues, vertical and horizontal banding, magenta-tinged whites after calibration, etc, etc, i decided to wait as i don't have any of those issues right now with my pj/screen combo.
As far as OLED is concerned, i wouldn't touch that technology until it reaches its third or fourth generation : have you guys read recent test reports on OLED screens ? One of them had so many dead pixels the reviewer stopped counting them at 40 visible out of hundreds clearly seen on posted picture, after calibration adjustment that left the picture with such poor black level detail that brightness had to be increased to a point the picture seemed no darker than offered by plasma displays, noticeable image retention (burn-in, anyone ?), estimated longevity of blue element, extremely poor OLED panels yield due to quality issues, etc....No thanks, i rather wait for a mature technology instead of being trust into a position of guinea pig at a cost of thousands of dollars, just my two cents worth of pragmatism.
Marcos
post #90 of 211
Does anybody have a link to exact numbers about how much resolution the average human eye can resolve exactly at which viewing angle?

My personal opinion about the cine 1000 is that it looks like a quite attractive projector. However, the VW1000 was somewhat of a game changer. If you look at B stock VW1000, it's not that much more expensive than this projector, and from what I've read, the VW1000 should have superior image quality, even with 1080p content. I think that's the key reason why the interest in the cine 1000 might not be as high as one might have expected. Personally, I'm a bit short of money at the moment, but I'm kinda waiting for my ultimate dream machine, which would be something like the VW1000 with an LED/laser light source. Maybe we'll get that next year, we'll have to wait and see...

In terms of LED DLP projectors, what I'd really like to see would be a big price drop. DLP still has the problem of somewhat lacking native contrast. They should make up for it with their typical sharpness and LED light sources at a competetive price point. I could even live with one of those 600 lumen models, if the price was right. They have been on the market long enough, but they're still damn expensive, compared to what you can get from JVC and Sony. Damn, a JVC with a dynamic iris, the contrast is going to be fantastic. What does DLP have to offer to compete with that, at a comparable price point? And don't even mention 0.65" DLP models, those lack the sharpness which is the key attraction of DLP, IMHO...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Digital projection cine 1000 led discussion