Las Vegas, NV - HDTV - Page 6

Heh, you must hate black hat/defcon. Tons of hackers coming into vegas, messing with the PPV, VOD in hotels...

Actually I thought there is one in the clear digital cable channel. 199 I think (its the ppv preview channel, or maybe the digi cable info channel). But I'm pretty sure there has to be one channel w/o encryption, just for testing equipment...

I thought the new cable law said that locals were going to be unencrypted. If not did Cox have to subscribe the Pioneer box they were showing a CES. Also about the boxes not making Cox any money. That's all they have to do is rent the box for 50 months. So in 5 years or so the box will be all profit. I keep hearing about the poor cable companies that have to spend a lot of money to get HD to the customers. They will have 50 years or so to get that money back. I think the cable companies are scamming customers who only want the HD channels.

It's mostly their equipment hooked up, jamming the return communication lines that affect other users. Actually videogames hooked onto the system via RF cause the most problems. One game and the hotel calls about 1000 rooms not working...

Yeah, I think there are some graphic feeds with almost no bandwidth that are actually generated in house and go out without going through the whole system. Channels 107, 498 and 499 feeds show as not being active in the tv manager window and not an active channel on pages 4 and 10 of the service menu.

Not aware of the specifics of any laws, but my thought was that all of the local stuff applied to analog signals and/or applied only when stations were threatened from losing advertising and could not reach their markets because of alternative programming. Currently, Digital stations show LESS local advertising than the same program airing on analog because of national network commercials airing in place of locals.(try watching CBS HD and listen to the analog channel 8 during comercials) The Pioneer box was subbed for CES and they could change channels.

Would YOU want to buy that box for $500 and keep it 50 months, when you can get the Pioneer for $350 with better features 6 months later? I think they bought 2000 boxes at $500 ea ($1,000,000.00) and have around 1000 HD customers, of which not all are paying customers. Then there is the HD equipment for receiving, handling and re-transmitting each of the feeds from sattelite and locals. As far as scamming goes, I believe most all users would want more than just 3 channels on their TV. The only people who would want what you are asking are non cable users who are using sattelite and are not happy with that service. I already have wheels, rims, axles, transfer case and bumpers for a new Jeep, but the dealership won't let me buy it without charging for all those things already added, especially that friggin scotchgard and desert prep package!

vegggas

Actully I am very happy with satallite, but I can't get the HD locals from Directv (because there is not enough bandwidth to put them there). But that's a whole other issue I have with the FCC. I would get them OTA but there is a mountain blocking the signal. As for would I buy this box no I wouldn't, but it would be nice to have that option. I just want the local digital channels to be treated like the local digital channels. That's all I ask of Cox.

Thanks everyone for such an informative thread! I've been reading the HDTV Programming forum regularly, but I just stumbled across the Local HDTV Info forum. It is really nice to get such detailed info about the HDTV situation in Las Vegas.

I signed up with the Cox HDTV service about three weeks ago, and I'm still debating if I should keep the service beyond the 30 day money back guarantee window. I'm a satisfied DirecTV customer, and like lvthunder, I really only need Cox for the local HD channels. The current line of DirecTV HD set top boxes are way too expensive at this time, so I figured the $29.99 Cox promotion was a good way to give HDTV a try at (supposedly) minimal cost.

The picture quality on the HD channels has been great so far (except for KNTV). However, there are a few factors that will most likely cause me to drop Cox for the time being.

My main issue is with the converter box. The 3100 box has a lot of ergonomic and operational problems with my setup. I too have a 4X3 tv (Sony kv-32hv600), and I agree with lvthunder that it's a pain to only be able to watch the HD channels through the component inputs.

The menu system on the box leaves a lot to be desired compared to my DirecTivo unit. I was thinking of dropping DirecTV if I really liked the Cox service, but after spending a few weeks with the 3100 box, there's no way I can envision swapping my DirecTivo for this rig.

I also noticed that the analog channels will not send sound through the digital output of the 3100 box. So when I change from HD channels to analog channels, I not only have to switch the input on my TV, but also switch the sound input on my receiver.

Additionally, I have not been able to get a DD 5.1 signal on any of the digital channels. On my DirecTivo I can get 5.1 with some HBO and Showtime programming, not so with the 3100.

I've already called Cox to see if they can give me a different model converter box, but as pointed out in this thread, the 3100 is all they have at this time. Vegggas, that's some promising news about the pioneer box, hopefully that will be an option real soon. I hope your right about the $350 cost to purchase.

The other thing is, the HDTV service is costing me a lot more than the $29.99 month promotion Cox advertised. With converter fees and taxes, my first month's bill is over $50. If I was going to drop DirecTV, I could probably justify the cost, but I doubt if I will drop DirecTV after my experiences with the 3100 box.

I'm also slightly miffed about the $50 installation, when they are offering free installation for a regular digital cable box where the only difference is no component output. I offered to pick up the box and install it myself, but no dice. When the installer came, I took the box from him and he watched me hook it up to my system. Oh well, I guess Cox has to recover their investment in HDTV some way.

I do have to hand it to Cox for at least offering HDTV service. I work part-time in the Bay Area, spend almost half of my time up here, and there is not even a murmur of HDTV cable in these parts. So I guess HDTV owners in LV are lucky they can sample some HD offerings without too much up front expense in a set top box.

If it wasn't for my issues with the 3100 box, I would probably keep the Cox HDTV service despite the cost. It would be nice if they offered just the local basic package ($9.70) with the HDTV converter box ($9.95), but I don't think this is an option. I'd be willing to put up with the 3100 box if Cox HDTV service was only costing me about $20/month in addition to DirecTV.

I think the ultimate solution to my needs will be the upcoming HD DirecTivo and a good antenna. But that is almost a year off, and who knows how much the thing will cost?

Dick Diablo

Yeah there is no way I would give up my DirecTivo for the 3100 either. I was able to get DD 5.1 though. When I tried the first time I plugged the cable into the composite video out. Oops. I just need to get a better cable. I tried it with a coax cable with RCA adapters at the end but the sound sometimes drops out. I haven't gotten my first bill from Cox yet. I imagine it will be screwed up too since they screwed up my name, cable modem, and HDTV service on the order form which I did online. How you can screw up a persons name when they order online is unbelievable to me.

There probably was a person involved somewhere in the process.

I guess my reason for using cox (as opposed to Directv) is the fact that we do get the local stations in HD (as well as Discovery HD). Although I would really have to consider changing if there was a DirectTivo HD. Also, I hope this is the case, it may be easier for Cox to add channels to their lineup give the fact that their bandwidth requirements are not as limited as DirectTV.

I think I would be much happier if there was a HD PVR for Cox Cable. Then I would be happy as a pig in _____. Occasionally, I send an email to Cox to see if they are going to be beta testing a PVR. SO far, I have received no response.

Yeah I saw the HD PVR at CES. It was pretty cool. I would recommend a TiVo for everyone. I did ask if they planned on making a cable compatible TiVo, but they said not at first because the standards were just established.

About DD5.1 - Most of the movie channels output 5.1, depending on the material, and I think the CBS and ABC primetime lineups are in 5.1 too. At this time (8:00PM) Showtime is showing "Nurse Betty" and ABC is broadcasting their "Disco" thing, both in Dolby Digital. Check your reciever's audio mode for that input and make sure it is set up for DD5.1, and also (chuckle) don't connect it to the yellow composite connector.
If your digital audio is dropping out, that is a known BUG for the SA3100 box. Usually this happens when the threshold drops too low in the reciever and it has too many correcting errors. The main corrective action is to channel away and back again (another reason to get a different box). As for changing from digital to analog sound, my reciever has auto sensing inputs that switch from analog to digital to DD5.1. As far as analog channels with analog audio, there is no A to D conversion on any box, so analog channels will always have analog audio on any system.

About HDPVR Beta Testing - Currently, the testing for EOD (Entertainment On Demand) is going to be finished soon. This allows you purchase shows, movies or events and play them back at your leisure for 24 hours with full VCR/DVD funtionality. The HDPVR has been pushed back closer to summer pending availability from Pioneer and Scientific Atlanta (see previous post about Pioneer Voyager HDPVR) BTW, the $350.00 price for the HD reciever was a guess, based on rumors, but nothing is known yet.

About Local Digital - I dropped the dish to get local channels, because I never knew what was going on locally, Then I moved and my house was situated where I was going to have some problems getting a line of sight w/o mounting to the street side of my house. I hope Diablo's 30 day covers Superbowl! ABC has all but Guaranteed it to be broadcast in HD and all available programming starting that Sunday. ( www.ktnv.com ) As of now, they have not been broadcasting HD yet, just converted digital.

About HD On 4x3TV - Many TV's now have mode changable aspect control to view HD in fullscreen mode. It would be nice to have on the STB like the Pioneer, but HD as a standard is supposed to 16x9 anyway... All of the HD channels except Discovery and PBS are available as SD on their respective analog channels, this is how you would view "downconverted" HD material via the s-video port. Only the component port has enough bandwidth to show the HD stream.

vegggas

Recently posted on the http://www.yourinsidelasvegas.com (ABC Channel 13 site):

For the first time ever in Las Vegas, 13 Inside Las Vegas will broadcast The Super Bowl in Digital High Definition Television. "Up to this point, we've been converting our regular signal to digital and rebroadcasting it on our Digital Television channel," according to Ron Adair, Director of Broadcast Operations and Engineering at 13 Inside Las Vegas.



Starting Super Bowl Sunday, all ABC programs that are sent to 13 Inside Las Vegas in High Definition will be presented on our second digital channel in full High Definition. Most prime time programs from ABC are produced in the new digital format. The remainder of our schedule will also be broadcast on our digital channel in an upconverted format or a standard format. Viewers of our regular channel 13 signal will see no difference.

All of CBS's prime-time scripted shows are DD 2.0 (Pro-Logic surround encoded into two channel Dolby Digital stereo). I've never seen (on my A/V receiver's front panel display) 5.1 from CBS. Go to the Dolby web site and you won't see CBS or NBC listed as ever broadcasting a show in 5.1. Only ABC has done that.

-Jonathan

Quick question. Does anyone get a good signal on Channel 13 in Summerlin? A friend of mine gets channel 8 and PBS just fine, but Channel 13is sporadic (with the antenna attached to the dish). I need to jury-rig a system for a super-bowl party. Any ideas? Should we get Cox for a month???? Thanks, Tim

Actually I asked KLAS (CBS) about the Dolby Digital 5.1 and they said if CBS broadcasts the Grammy's in 5.1 like has been announced they will pass it thru.

Tallen I would try to get an antenna going rather than getting Cox for a month. I finally got my first bill from them and they screwed that up too. Unbelievable.

About DD5.1 - Most of the movie channels output 5.1, depending on the material, and I think the CBS and ABC primetime lineups are in 5.1 too. At this time (8:00PM) Showtime is showing "Nurse Betty" and ABC is broadcasting their "Disco" thing, both in Dolby Digital. Check your reciever's audio mode for that input and make sure it is set up for DD5.1, and also (chuckle) don't connect it to the yellow composite connector.
If your digital audio is dropping out, that is a known BUG for the SA3100 box. Usually this happens when the threshold drops too low in the reciever and it has too many correcting errors. The main corrective action is to channel away and back again (another reason to get a different box). As for changing from digital to analog sound, my reciever has auto sensing inputs that switch from analog to digital to DD5.1. As far as analog channels with analog audio, there is no A to D conversion on any box, so analog channels will always have analog audio on any system.

About HDPVR Beta Testing - Currently, the testing for EOD (Entertainment On Demand) is going to be finished soon. This allows you purchase shows, movies or events and play them back at your leisure for 24 hours with full VCR/DVD funtionality. The HDPVR has been pushed back closer to summer pending availability from Pioneer and Scientific Atlanta (see previous post about Pioneer Voyager HDPVR) BTW, the $350.00 price for the HD reciever was a guess, based on rumors, but nothing is known yet.

About Local Digital - I dropped the dish to get local channels, because I never knew what was going on locally, Then I moved and my house was situated where I was going to have some problems getting a line of sight w/o mounting to the street side of my house. I hope Diablo's 30 day covers Superbowl! ABC has all but Guaranteed it to be broadcast in HD and all available programming starting that Sunday. ( www.ktnv.com ) As of now, they have not been broadcasting HD yet, just converted digital.

About HD On 4x3TV - Many TV's now have mode changable aspect control to view HD in fullscreen mode. It would be nice to have on the STB like the Pioneer, but HD as a standard is supposed to 16x9 anyway... All of the HD channels except Discovery and PBS are available as SD on their respective analog channels, this is how you would view "downconverted" HD material via the s-video port. Only the component port has enough bandwidth to show the HD stream.

vegggas

I'm in the Lakes, between Desert Inn and Sahara near Hualapai.

Channel 13's signal strength is the highest of any channel I get, around a 98, while Channel 8(7) is down around 62. This is on a Dish Network Echostar 6000 receiver. I actually had to take the amplifier out of my antenna (Channel Master 3010), because it was overloading the receiver. I got better reception and higher signal strengths w/o the amplifier.

-Jonathan

Thanks Jonathon.

How do you have it mounted? I really just need something that will suffice for Superbowl Sunday. Even something that I can Duct tap to a ladder (if it works) would be fine.

What does everyone suggest?

Ok, this is really embarassing. My house faces south, and I have a patio cover in the back. I took an old Dish network dish mount, bolted it to the patio cover, and then crammed a 5' antenna mast into it that I bought from Radio Shack. I mounted my antenna on this. The mount is in the northeast corner of the patio cover, so it isn't obstructed by the house (just by a 40' tall Pine tree). So the antenna is about 14' off the ground. At one time I had the antenna laying on the patio cover, with a couple of concrete blocks on it to keep it from flying away. It was good enough to pull in CBS, which was the only digital station available back then.

-Jonathan

Wow! Just found you guys. Thank goodness, a support group for HD-starved Las Vegans. Good news about the Super Bowl. Now we need to turn up the heat on the rest of the local stations.

For the record, I have Direct TV ('cause I gotta have my two-tuner Direct Tivo) with a 65" Mitsubishi and Mits STB. Yeah, I paid too much for the STB, but that's life on the bleeding edge isn't it.

Before I found this forum, I've had good luck communicating with the engineers at the local stations. They've been pretty responsive. The only news I have to report that I haven't seen here is that local Fox doesn't intend to broadcast the 480p signal (which is what Fox calls their "high resolution") signal in the forseeable future.

Thanks for a great forum!

Looks like KTNV-DT channel 13-01 has flipped their HD switch on tonight!!!
NYPD Blue is lookin' good right now in glorious HD!

Da*m, I missed that!

This is a little off topic but has anyone tried the new wireless internet service KeyOn at http://www.keyon.com
I'm thinking about trying them out and can't seem to find anywhere on the internet that someone that has the service says yeah or neah. They avertise 1.5MB service (same as Cox) for $25+$3 equipment rental fee.

lvthunder,

It looks like the company is just starting up. They don't have their ISP "Partners" listed. That would be one of my concerns is that you still have to pay for the ISP on top of their charges. Also, I wonder if their equipment would fall under the satellite dish exception to CC&R's enforcement.....

Tallen,

I live in the Arbors Village in Summerlin. I use the Terk, dish mounted antenna and get all of the Digital OTA channels fine. Previous to the Terk, I used an ancient set of rabbit ears and would have to set them up at very weird angles to lock in all channels at a time.

I have the Terk mounted to my HD dish (pointed at 61.5) so it gets a pretty clear shot to/from the Black Mountain/Seven Hills broadcasting points.

$50 at Radio Shack and cheaper at Wal-Mart I hear...

Jhue/Jonathan,

I see you have the Dish 6000 too. I was wondering if you're bothered by the fan noise of the 8VSB. Seems to be a pretty common problem but can't find any information on fixes people have done. I'm going to change the noisy fan out after the Superbowl and am wondering if you've heard of any solutions? It drives me bonkers and when my wife noticed the whining the other day, I knew it was really bad!

Thanks!

vegashdtv

To quiet the fan, solder a 30 ohm 1/8 watt resistor in series with the red power wire and insulate with heat shrink tube.

Does anyone else watching ABC with the 3500 from Cox lose the video and audio when they switch from DD5.1 to DD2.0 or vice versa. I have to change the channel and change it back to get it to work again. This is very frustrating.

Not sure I understand, What device are you switching? Is this the SA3100HD or something else you have labled as 3500?
The 3100HD only has an audio setting for either "Dolby Digital" or "Other" in it's setup for the digital audio out connector. When I change that setting, my box doesn't need to change the channel to reset the stream, although my Yamaha A/V reciever DOES Auto Detect the input and change it's input mode (Analog / Dolby Digital / DTS) to the best source available.
Is that what you are referring to?
Some recieving devices do not automatically switch audio or video modes and will lock on to the last signal they recieved. Could this be what you are experiencing?

vegggas

ABC came through with the HD for SuperBowl! Game looks great, but there is still a lot of switching of formats for commercials and in game playback.

Vegggas

I lose audio with Explorer 2200 if surfing the digital channels rapidly. I have 2200 into Kenwood Surround set on auto via analog and digital connections. I can restore audio by selecting stereo sound and then back to digital or changing channel, wait for audio to kick in then back to the channel I want to view. So I trained myself to surf slowly (let audio kick in on each channel (1 second).

I want my HDTV!

Eddie