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For a $2000 budget - what is the best sub out there? Not on SPL but on Fidelity, Tight & Clean bass. - Page 3

post #61 of 126
Edit: See below smile.gif
Edited by its phillip - 8/16/13 at 12:45pm
post #62 of 126
International Customers (220-240VAC operation):

Pricing for the new universal Voltage SubMersive will be as follows:

Black Maple or Oak SubMersive HPi+ = $2,595 + shipping
Black Maple or Oak SubMersive F2i+ = $2,845 + shipping
Slave units will carry the same $1,195/$1,495 + shipping pricing respectively for the HPi/F2i versions.

I am still working out upgrade prices for our international customers who have an original SubMersive with the 1000W ICEpower based amplifiers. We will allow upgrades of the amplifier to the HPi+ version, along with options to directly go to a master/slave combo.

The HPi+/F2i+ models will be available to ship by the 1st week of September.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/SubMersive-HP-amp-F2-masterslave-option-6453864?&trail=20

Cabs out of Chicago, Amps by SpeakerPower, Drivers by Eminence. Design and DSP by the Mark Seaton who posted in this thread. smile.gif Quality Hi-Fidelity product.

Good luck.
post #63 of 126
Ah, so only a couple weeks until the HPi amps are available. That's great news for international customers smile.gif
post #64 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by its phillip View Post

Ah, so only a couple weeks until the HPi amps are available. That's great news for international customers smile.gif

I agree! I also imagine there will be a few used 1000 watt amps coming along as well as the international customers upgrade. smile.gif
post #65 of 126
Thank you Luke for catching and relaying the recent announcements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by its phillip View Post

Ah, so only a couple weeks until the HPi amps are available. That's great news for international customers smile.gif

To clarify the above, these are the HPi+ amplifiers. The "+" designation adds the ability to power a passive, slave cabinet. This can be included with the order of the powered unit, or can be added at any time in the future for the same cost, and at a $800-900 savings over purchasing a pair of comparable HP or HPi models.

We are no longer selling *new* versions of the original SubMersive with 1000W, ICEpower based amplification, but we are selling new SubMersives loaded with pre-owned amplifiers. The warranty will shift to 1 year and the price will drop $100 from what is posted. Of course the amplifiers are still easily serviced and repaired after the warranty period at our cost. This price + the HPi+ upgrade is the same the cost as a new HPi+ but adds the extra shipping for the upgrade process. A SubMersive loaded with a pre-owned amplifier should stay within the intended budget and can always be upgraded in the future. I'm not sure how much this matters to the OP, but the amplifier isn't as fully "made in USA" as the new amplifiers are, where the core amplifier technology uses the ICEpower modules which are designed by B&O, built in China. The modules are then assembled into the finished amplifier with other supporting US made components here in the states. Call it "assembled in USA" and partially sourced here. This is true of any products using ICEpower technology.
post #66 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

No. He hasn't abandoned the thread. I was replying to him smile.gif

But it is unfortunate. Either PB13-Ultra or SB13-Ultra will give him incredible sound for the money. And since he wasn't buying a processor or receiver, but intent on using a computer sound card only to save money (in his speaker forum thread), his priorities have gone in strange directions. Not about the best sound he can get for his money.

I know I was being sarcastic being he was not listening to the advice given...or it appeared that way.
post #67 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

ok i see what you all are saying that most everything has something chinese made in it - but if its mostly made in the US/Canada/EU/Aus/NZ/Japan that's all I care about....
I can't see why everyone gets all wound-up about the fact that I don't want a "chinese made" product even if its the best in the price range... in fact i would've thought it would've been the other way round... but not so...
its good that you are all open minded and not jingoistic and very much subscribe to the globalization/walmartization of the economy...in fact if you were all like "be american, buy american" even if its crap - it would've freaked me out...(anyone ever own old unreliable chevys and pontiacs before experiencing the reliability and quality of hondas and toyotas? i'd gladly buy a Lenovo, made in China (but I refuse to buy an IBM or Apple laptop made in China - it just doesn't sit right)
I agree with the concept of "may the best among us win", "resource optimization", "the right tool, right man, right location for the right job" but in practice that is not what is happening...
the reality is the system is not just imperfect - its completely flawed and will remain so for a very long time... it ensures the widening of the rich-poor divide, middle-class squeeze, privatization of profits and socialization of losses and social costs, meaningless growth at all costs economics and politics...

If you haven't already seen or felt its true effects (be it as a beneficiary, victim or as a sympathizer) - you must indeed be living in your own bubble and that shall burst in the years to come...
I've rambled on enough - about economics, politics and geo-politicss and that can fire-up a lot of passions and rants.. so lets get to the OP (original point)
Its funny how you attribute intentions and attitudes without reading what I'm posting or that I'm posting at all - therefore it would not be sensible for me take any offense to this particular message - as I'm very thankful for everyone who posts in reply to this thread...

again...
I'm certainly NOT looking for confirmations of the Genelec's purported superiority - in fact quite the opposite I am looking for viable alternates of which I assume there must be quite a few...

I'm certain that among the Active speakers suitable (size, performance, looks) for use as a home-theater - Genelec G 4 and G 3 are the speakers for me... (the ADAM and Focal came very close) but the Genelec won out because of the consistent look and performance with their higher line products and surprisingly enough I've grown to like their looks... I started out thinking they were rank ugly... then they started looking plain and now they've started looking downright cute - like a bunny rabbit... it just grew on me...(and I'm quite used to the same experience when it comes to women...)

Now the clear favorite Seaton SubM doesn't have anything 220V that I can order (and the 110V to 220V transformers are noisy and unsafe)...
The Sunfire TS-EQ10 - not sure about its performance or SQ but it does offer all/most of the features I want
but its off the list because its "made in china"...
the Power Sound Audio (XS30 is kina big and Triax kina expensive) and Paradigm sub 1 too expensive and JL Audio Fathoms are not duals...

the Martin Logan Depth i and Acoustic Energy Pro-Sub are still in the picture...

but it still feels like something's amiss in all of this and not quite what I want - especially in a category that is particularly popular as a DIY.
I'll keep this thread going to hear any other suggestions on "dual/sealed" subs to consider in the below $2200 range...


I support american made and assembled products thats part of the reason I went with PSA. However SVS has Top notch customer support and warranty with products known for being rock solid reliable. That being said I see you are looking a Seaton subs which is a great choice. Also the PSA XS30 is not that big for a dual opposed sub.

Oh and my previous post was just to ruffle your feathers a bit in attempt to steer you away from the genelec sub...nothing personal!
post #68 of 126
Hi Mark,

Do you know of any plate amplifiers that is MADE in the USA ?
post #69 of 126
I thought speaker power was usa made?
post #70 of 126
The op has certain criteria, and if he is ok with his limitation, I praise him for standing up for his belief. Good for him. I wish I could say the same for me sometimes. I would like to buy USA products, buy I can't afford some and some are not available as 90% of everything is offshore.
post #71 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I thought speaker power was usa made?
Do you know of any plate amplifiers that is MADE in the USA ?

Does California count?

Seriously, the answer is no if you demand every part and every material every part is made of be grown or mined in the USA. However, I will make the bold statement that my amps have more USA content in labor and materials than anyone else. It varies from model to model, but the big sub amps 2400-6000W you guys are interested in have all circuit boards assembled and tested close to my Santa Ana CA factory. Final assembly and test is done right here.
post #72 of 126
^
my parents house is by harbor and edinger in santa ana, ca., could i visit speaker power sometimes?
post #73 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post

Hi Mark,

Do you know of any plate amplifiers that is MADE in the USA ?

The speakerpower amps are USA made. The amplifiers he was referring to with chinese parts were the old 1000W icepower amps in the standard submersive, since the icepower modules were manufactured in china.

http://www.speakerpower.net/about-us.html

edit: i probably should have refreshed the page before replying, since i see there is a reply from the speakerpower company itself several hours ago. oops
post #74 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

I would like to buy USA products, buy I can't afford some and some are not available as 90% of everything is offshore.
+1. I draw the line with products made on Earth. I'm really sick and tired of Terrans losing jobs to those damn Venusians. And don't get me started with the Romulans. mad.gif
post #75 of 126
Folks,

In case some of you are wondering which way I'm headed on the sub...
I will be trying for a custom (through Seaton, Rhythmik, JTR, Selah, Funk) or a DIY route (due to size limitations under the WAF)...
The Acoustic Energy Pro-Sub and Sunfire TS-EQ-10 are the only manufactured subs that somewhat meet my size and performance criteria but the Sunfire fails on the country of origin and the unknown SQ

therefore...if something along the lines of the above 2 can be made in a DIY and by now its clear that I'd have to be ok with something that has some Chinese components for where its absolutely needed...

if you guys have any other ideas - do chime in...

so I will keep you all posted...

-intgenx
post #76 of 126
^^^^

Jim Salk can build you a custom Rythmik subwoofer. Available in six standard finishes, or for an extra cost just about any veneer/color is possible. Combine the great Rythmik sound quality with Salk's renowned workmanship...just might be what you're looking for.
post #77 of 126
You would be hard pressed to beat dual HSU VTF-15H subs. Also, check out Power Sound Audio XV15's.
post #78 of 126
Shipping would kill the op in any of the above. INDIA, go to the India svs distributor and demo. Or DIY. Go to DIY section for help. If it was me I try the svs route first.
post #79 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post

You would be hard pressed to beat dual HSU VTF-15H subs. Also, check out Power Sound Audio XV15's.

There are plenty of subs out there that best both of those options...however they both are great subs for the money.
post #80 of 126
For now - lets assume I drop the customs/DIY - if its just manufactured subs...

Most everyone here and on other forums have me convinced that the sealed opposed duals/triples are the best for fidelity and performance
I don't think I could get myself to go for anything less than a sealed opposed dual... be it 8", 10" or 12"...

The following are great but:
1. Seaton SubM (too big to pass WAF)
2. KK DXD808 (2k just for an 8" dual?)
3. Vandersteen 2Wq (takes only speaker level input)

That leaves me with very few choices:
1. Acoustic Energy Pro-sub
2. Martin Logan Depth i

Or Get a Rythmik kit for a DIY dual/quad opposed servo controlled sub (with possible dual passive drivers?) - this will be the ultimate in my opinion and this option will mean I'm going to have to invest the time and motivation to bridge all the gaps in knowledge that I'm painfully aware of ...

my heart is now with DIY and head says "First of all, can you do it? Second are you gonna be happy with the result? With fidelity being the goal and not proving that I can make a sub for myself"

and all of my present knowledge (and the knowledge that I don't have enough knowledge yet) - I couldn't have obtained without posting in the many forums... as each forum has given me many little nuggets of information to slowly piece together the puzzle...so thanks everyone...especially the ones who have posted detailed enough educative replies...
post #81 of 126
Research the TC Sounds LMS-R series of subwoofer drivers. Here's the 15". I've read a lot of talk on the DIY forum about how capable these drivers are. I believe you can put a 15" in a 3.5" cubic foot sealed box (check with the DIY folks), and the 15" handles 1000 watts RMS, 4,000 watts max biggrin.gif

Shouldn't be too hard to have someone put together a sealed sub box for you.
post #82 of 126
Dual oppose is great when you have rooms, but you are better with 2 separate capable boxes.
post #83 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

Dear Folks,

I've searched the forum for sub-recommendations and am now suffering from information overload and can't seem to make a list to even narrow down my choices and now I need your help to finalize a sub-woofer for a 5.1ch Home-theater with Active speakers.

Genelec 8040 (G Four) for Left/ Right and 8030 (G Three) for Center/Surrounds.

Before I enter the "request for recommendations" in the prescribed format, I need to mention the Location and WAF:

Location: I'm an American expat based in Bangalore, India and that means fewer options to consider and there is no "used" market to speak of and imported things in general cost nearly double here compared to the base US prices.
WAF: "Any darned thing which is...Not too big, Not too loud. Not too ugly."

1. Budget: $900 to $1200 (base USD prices before taxes, shipping etc).Since I can't buy used, I will also have to add about 70% on top of the base price for duty, shipping ,VAT etc to arrive at my final cost.

2. Size requirements/limits: I think an 8" or 10" sub should be sufficient - should have freq response down to 20 hz. with low distortion - accuracy/transparency is my most important criterion.

3. Room dimensions: I'm presently in an apartment with layout as shown: 3BHK layout.jpg 1045k .jpg file - a 15’ x 16’ Living room open to a 11’ x 11’ Dining room, ceiling height of 10’, flooring is polished marble, walls are brick with cement plaster. The additional consideration is that there is a slight chance that I may be moving to a place with the following layout: 4BHK layout.jpg 775k .jpg file with Living/Dining hall: 25' x 18' open to a Foyer: 9' x 12' with Ceiling height 10'. The setup I choose now will have to work for both - so I should go with sufficient head-room but not so much as to be overwhelming... the sound needs to be contained as far as possible to the Home theater area and not spill over to anywhere else and especially not the neighbors.

4. Primary uses: Usage will be about 70% movies - 30% music.
All videos (avi, mp4, mpg, mkv, divx etc) and music (mp3) files are on hard-disk and will be played via VLC player on the PC, all the speakers will be directly connected to the 5.1ch sound card on the PC using XLR (if available) or through RCA-XLR jack).

5. Listening habits: I do not plan on playing it with blow me off my seats loudness (except may be when the wife is away) but just a set that is accurate/ transparent, without rattling and unwanted vibrations etc...

6. Appearance requirements: It has to be sufficiently compact and good looking to complement the Genelecs but needn't be super-compact or sleek - so as to compromise price or performance...It needs to be made in Europe or North America

7. Timeframe: Can't really buy internet direct as I'm located in India - but I do want the best (most accurate, transparent) sub out there in my price range... therefore I may be willing to wait and buy it when I can.

The dealer recommends the Genelec 7060 for my G4/G3 setup. The 7060 is priced at $2200 and offers Genelec's proprietary Laminar Spiral Enclosure (LSE) [does anyone know how this makes the sub better than everything else] "0" db baffle resonance, driver giving all the SPL and not the cabinets rattling, construction is rock solid and there is no coloration in the Low Frequency. and also power efficient consumes only 120W for an SPL@1m of 108dB and is well integrated with the Genelec speakers and claims it is the best sub in the world....

Frankly I think a good sub needn't cost that much - especially considering the intense competition among the multitude of sub makers and sub-making is a cottage industry of sorts with many people resorting to assembling their own subs as a weekend-DIY.

DIY is also an option but it still has to deliver the 20Hz, tight bass, low distortion, no rattling, power efficient etc comparable to Genelec... I don't think I can achieve that in a million years...

but if I want the "Best" sub there is.. not just "very good or excellent" I assume there are very few choices... If price is no concern which are the subs out there with tight bass, low distortion, low waste due to heat or noise, accuracy/transparency,etc...(loudness and bomb like air/earth moving ability is not a criterion for me) - it has to have some studio cred and audiophile/pro/musician cred and look tastefully (no flashy/glossy stuff) done too...

I would like to know which is the best sub out there - based on independently verifiable measurements - even if I were to bump my budget up to $2200 - I want to make sure I am getting the best - if I'm spending that kind of cash...
key requirement: It has to be made, if not completely, at least mostly, in USA/Canada/EU/Aus/Nz/Japan.

Thanks in advance for all responses...
I own an Adam Sub10MkII. It's a monster! 10", 300W class D, capable of outputting 25Hz at ridiculous SPLs when necessary. It was designed for studio's, and therefore it has XLR in and out (ideal for your Gelelec mains) and switchabel HPF at 85Hz for the mains. I love it for it's sound: clean and powerful, but not so clean that it becomes boring. It has a bit of 'grunt' in it, which I love. I found it pretty easy to integrate into my HT.
post #84 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesblond View Post

I own an Adam Sub10MkII. It's a monster! 10", 300W class D, capable of outputting 25Hz at ridiculous SPLs when necessary. It was designed for studio's, and therefore it has XLR in and out (ideal for your Gelelec mains) and switchabel HPF at 85Hz for the mains. I love it for it's sound: clean and powerful, but not so clean that it becomes boring. It has a bit of 'grunt' in it, which I love. I found it pretty easy to integrate into my HT.

The Adam is only a 10" 46 lb sub with a 200 watt RMS amp. For around the same price, these are monsters!

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-plus#.UhdpNxukqBo
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15HP.html

wink.gif
post #85 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesblond View Post

I own an Adam Sub10MkII. It's a monster! 10", 300W class D, capable of outputting 25Hz at ridiculous SPLs when necessary.

Sorry to burst your bubble but that is hardly a monster sub and I doubt that it can output "25Hz at ridiculous SPLs".

For perspective, a monster sub is like the JTR Captivator S2 with 2x 18" drivers and 4,000W amp.
post #86 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesblond View Post

I own an Adam Sub10MkII. It's a monster! 10", 300W class D, capable of outputting 25Hz at ridiculous SPLs when necessary.

Sorry to burst your bubble but that is hardly a monster sub and I doubt that it can output "25Hz at ridiculous SPLs".

For perspective, a monster sub is like the JTR Captivator S2 with 2x 18" drivers and 4,000W amp.


lol @ jamesblond

monster sub indeed...

you must be new here. cool.gif
post #87 of 126
The sad thing is there are several subs in the 500.00 range that will best it in both output and extension.
post #88 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesblond View Post

I own an Adam Sub10MkII. It's a monster! 10", 300W class D, capable of outputting 25Hz at ridiculous SPLs when necessary. It was designed for studio's, and therefore it has XLR in and out (ideal for your Gelelec mains) and switchabel HPF at 85Hz for the mains. I love it for it's sound: clean and powerful, but not so clean that it becomes boring. It has a bit of 'grunt' in it, which I love. I found it pretty easy to integrate into my HT.

Trolling?
post #89 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

The sad thing is there are several subs in the 500.00 range that will best it in both output and extension.

Yup!! I've ordered one of them too... teh Rythmic LV12-R which is assembled in the US.



To the OP, I would seriously look at SVS or Rythmic.. Both have top notch customer service and have promptly answered all my email inquiries. If there is an SVS distributor in India, I would put aside all your Gelenic fantasies and incorrect assertions about their subwoofers and head straight for SVS. Remember, the quality of Chinese manufacturing of NA, EU, and Japanese products are the responsibility of the companies that have set up shop over there. I don't like it that stock holder greed sent manufacturing off shore either but its today's reality.
post #90 of 126
Thats gotta hurt smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

The sad thing is there are several subs in the 500.00 range that will best it in both output and extension.
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